Episode 11 · 8 November 2022 · 40:35
Is WFH Dead? - The Impact Of The Cost Of Living Crisis
Is WFH Dead? - The Impact Of The Cost Of Living Crisis
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What is the cost of living crisis?
The 'perfect shitstorm' — COVID, Brexit, and energy
How the COLC is changing the WFH conversation
The real cost of heating your home vs. commuting
What this means for hybrid businesses
Hybrid models explained
Why this economic challenge is different
The hidden toll on employee wellbeing
Practical tips for business leaders
other#business-leadership#practical-tips#cost-of-living-crisis
Show notes
Is WFH Dead? The Impact of the Cost of Living Crisis
Truth, Lies & Work — Al Elliott and Leanne Elliott (Chartered Occupational Psychologist) dig into how the cost of living crisis is reshaping remote and hybrid working. With energy bills soaring, mortgages climbing, and budgets tightening, they explore what this means for employees, leaders, and the future of the office — and share practical tips for businesses navigating the storm.
The Big Question: Is WFH Dead?
The cost of living crisis is hitting everyone — energy, mortgages, rents, food. And for leaders, the impact stretches far beyond revenue and profitability. It's about employee wellbeing, retention, and the future of work itself.
Al and Leanne break down how the COLC is reshaping the remote work debate. On one hand, working from home saves commuting costs. On the other, heating your home all day isn't cheap — recent figures suggest it can cost around £18 a day (roughly $20) to heat a home for a day of work.
And it's not just about money. The conversation has shifted from "WFH is a perk" to "WFH is a financial necessity for some, and a financial burden for others." The answer isn't one-size-fits-all.
Why This Economic Challenge Is Different
This isn't your average downturn. Al and Leanne describe it as a "perfect storm" — COVID's aftermath, Brexit's ongoing ripple effects, the energy crisis, and global instability all colliding at once.
For hybrid businesses, this means:
- Employees are making different choices — some want to be in the office to save on heating bills, others want to stay home to save on commuting
- The office is no longer just a workplace — it's a financial decision
- Leaders need to think beyond policy — this is about supporting people through genuine hardship
The Hidden Toll on Employee Wellbeing
Al opens up about his own experience of financial stress — bailiffs at the door, rent arrears, and the crushing weight of waking up every day wondering how to make ends meet. It's a raw, honest moment that underscores just how much financial worry affects performance, focus, and mental health.
Leanne highlights the research: job stress makes employees more prone to error, causes dips in performance, and takes a serious toll on wellbeing. Financial stress is no different — and it doesn't stay at home.
What Employers Can Do
Al and Leanne share practical, actionable advice for leaders:
- Look at what financially works for your business — and feed that into your hybrid working policy
- Offer financial wellbeing support — only 26% of businesses currently do, which means there's a huge opportunity to stand out
- Point people to free resources — StepChange, National Debtline, and other debt advice services can be lifesavers
- Be human — Al shares how being open about his own struggles actually led to more speaking gigs and deeper connections
- Consider affordable benefits platforms — options like Pirkx offer wellbeing benefits at a fraction of the cost of traditional perks (around £3–£5 per employee per month)
Resources Mentioned
- Step Change — the UK's most comprehensive debt advice service: stepchange.org
- National Debtline — cost of living hub with practical help: nationaldebtline.org
- Prosperity Wealth — employee benefits advice and benchmarking: prosperitywealth.com/employee-benefits
- Pirkx — affordable wellbeing benefits for everyone: pirkx.com
Connect With Us
Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
Expand full transcript
Al ElliottThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Al ElliottNice. Check out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses. Hey, it's Al here. Just editing this and realised there's a dodgy cable between Leanne's microphone and our little fancy recording mixy thing. So I've tried to reduce the hum and the hiss as much as possible, but it's not quite as clear as normal. Everything should be back to normal next week because I've been to the shop and I got ourselves a brand new cable. Okay, back to the show.
Leanne ElliottHello and welcome to the Truth, Lies and Workplace Culture podcast. My name is Leanne.
Al ElliottAnd I'm Al.
Leanne ElliottAnd welcome back.
Al ElliottHello.
Leanne ElliottIf this is your first time listening, where have you been?
Al ElliottWhere have you been?
Leanne ElliottI'll be honest, if this is your first episode, you rebel jumping in episode 10, honestly.
Al ElliottBut if it is your first time, let's introduce So my name's Al, I'm a business owner, and I'm here to ask Leanne questions about building a business in terms of people.
Leanne ElliottAnd my name's Leanne, I'm a business psychologist, which basically means I help small businesses and leaders with everything to do with people and culture to help their businesses grow and their people to thrive.
Al ElliottExcellent. Okay.
Leanne ElliottHi.
Al ElliottHello.
Leanne ElliottWhat's your name?
Al ElliottThis is, this isn't a 2-way medium, but you can get in touch with us. We'll tell you towards the end because we love hearing from listeners. It's kind of weird recording on your own because you don't really see the listener in front of you or hear that, you know, they're not in front of you.
Leanne ElliottSo. They're not in front of you. They're not.
Al ElliottNo. Okay. So today we are talking about the cost of living crisis, and I'll go into what that is in a second and how it might, or how Leanne thinks it might affect people working from home. So first of all, in terms of the cost of living crisis, I'm sure you've heard the term before, but just in case you haven't, essentially what we're saying is That the cost of living is in crisis. There we go. That's the end of it.
Leanne ElliottThat's a nice succinct way of putting it. I like it.
Al ElliottSo there's rising costs without going into the economics of it, because A, I don't understand it, and B, I'm not qualified to talk about it. But essentially, inflation in certainly in the UK and now is increasing across the US and EU. Inflation means that everything is getting more expensive. So particularly energy costs. If you rent, then your rent's probably going up. If you have a mortgage and your interest rate is not fixed, then your mortgage is going to go up. And so essentially what's happening is that we are moving in the UK towards a recession. Now, the problem is that as things, as the prices go up, it means that it's more and more difficult for families to afford things. And so certain things have to go. There was, what was that stat? Something about a million UK adults went a whole day without eating.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottWas that back in February 2022?
Leanne ElliottYes. I'm sorry, is that a question? I thought you were just talking rhetorically. Question? Yes. No, it was, it was, it was, um, by the Food, uh, Food Foundation think tank. Um, so yeah, I think that's, that's the, the, you know, the, the reality is a cost of living crisis for, for many of us will mean the end of disposable income or less disposable income. Sadly, for many others, it is going to push people below the poverty threshold. Um, and that's what that statistic, uh, was finding, that, uh, yeah, a million UK adults were going without eating for a whole day within that month, which is quite a shocking statistic, really.
Al ElliottIt is a little bit. And so again, we're going to get into how this is affecting work from home in a second. But it's not just the UK, because it seems that the EU was at 2.2% inflation a number of months ago, and now it's up at 8.9%. So that's going the same way. It seems that the US is going a similar way. Inflation's up. And obviously, you know, it is dependent on micro sort of economic In the country, what, what's going up. But certainly in the UK, you're gonna see a massive increase in things, just staples like butter and bread, and then of course your electricity, etc., etc., which has got a direct impact on running your machines and running everything from home. So there's a few things that have caused it. Brexit for the UK. Brexit has been a massive contentious issue.
Leanne ElliottThe gift that keeps giving. Brexit.
Al ElliottI think we, we both— you might have guessed that we both, that we're both very much Remainers, uh, very much against Brexit. But of course it's happened, so we can't cry about it. But there's other things—
Leanne ElliottWe can cry about it. I suppose all we can do about it.
Al ElliottAnd the other thing to consider is that COVID has just hit. Um, it meant that a lot of businesses had to essentially close and be supported by the government. All that money has to come from somewhere. So, um, that's had a massive impact, uh, for everything. And also a lot of the service industry is kind of shut down, so there's no income coming in. So this means that basically the UK and a lot of other countries around the world aren't prepared for this cost of living crisis. There's other things like supply chains. So I mean, the war in Ukraine is having an impact on supply of grain, etc., etc., to a lot of Europe. I'm not sure about America, but certainly Europe and Britain, that's happening. So it's meaning because there's less grain, therefore there's less Say bread on the shelves, therefore the price of the bread goes up. Simple supply and demand. And then also like the weather, it's just been this basically this kind of like horrible shitstorm that's just come together because in 2021 there was a, there was a nasty cold snap in certain parts of Asia, which meant the energy, energy usage skyrocketed, which then pushed prices up. And there's other things like regulation, certainly in the UK. There's about 30 energy firms that have gone bust recently. I mean, when I say gone bust, that might be a UK term, basically gone out of business because they can no longer provide energy at the prices which they promised. So that means that now we've got kind of a monopoly in the UK of sort of 2 or 3 large energy providers, which they monopolise the market. They can charge basically whatever they want. Now, of course, if you've got 3 laptops like in this office here, we have a computer, a laptop, and Leanne's laptop, plus lights, cameras, all this kind of stuff. All that is going to increase the cost.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottUm, of energy that we're going to be using. Um, there are other concerns like environmental concerns. Um, and the UK is generally moving towards green energy, but we're not quite there yet, are we, Leah?
Leanne ElliottNo.
Al ElliottNo. And agriculture as well. I mean, this is just, this is just this perfect shitstorm, as I said, because now we're having crops that are in the UK that are rotting because they haven't got the people to go and pick them, because the people traditionally were from Europe who came across, migrated across for summer or winter and picked the crops. And so that's the problem with the food. So again, reduced supply, you know, demand increasing or staying the same, prices will go up. Um, so we need to ask the question. You've been in here for about 8 minutes now. What's the cost of living crisis got to do with working from home? Leah, can you answer that?
Leanne ElliottYes. So I think the— I mean, the cost of living crisis, and I mean, just in terms of we think before looking at working from home or hybrid working, if we just look at kind of the impact that's going to have on people. So we heard about that statistic earlier about a million people going without a meal. A more recent survey by Ranso in 2022 actually found that 55% of people have or are considering getting a second job to pay for the increased cost of living. So as an employer, if your employees are now getting additional work, which may push their, you know, their working hours up significantly, that is going to not only affect them in terms of their physical and mental health, but also potentially their productivity, which may impact your business. So yeah, the cost of living crisis is something that is going to impact businesses and all of us. And the sad thing is, you know, the longer— as Al said, between Brexit and COVID, we were already facing an uphill battle. Add the war in there as well.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottAnd the longer that goes on, the more we're going to be affected. So it is something to be mindful of. Bringing it back to working from home, well, I think it's quite obvious really. If things are more expensive, then working from home is going to be more expensive. So that might mean that employees are maybe going to start considering going back into the office. Maybe. What do you think, Al?
Al ElliottYeah, I mean, there's kind of a weird thing that some of the— some of our clients have wanted people back in the office. from, from the start, really. And they've been really campaigning to get people back in the office for a variety of reasons. And so, yes, and understandably, people have been against going back because they've been working from home for 2 years. It's so much easier. There's no commute. You've got much more flexible hours. If you've got childcare issues, it's probably easier if you're at home to manage that kind of issue. But then the other side of the coin is that now, with energy prices going up, rents potentially going up, maybe— business owners don't want people back in the office because they're gonna have to pay their employees' heating bill, essentially.
Leanne ElliottYeah, and I think that is, that is a point, isn't it? And, and I think what you, you know, what you said there about lots of business owners have just been looking for a reason to get employees back, and, you know, you might look at the cost of living crisis as one of those things, um, that you can do. And, you know, like, fine, um, But making sure as well that, you know, if you're just serving your own, your own needs for the benefit of yourself, then that is going to, you know, you know about employee engagement. We've talked about this before. We know that those actions are going to have an impact. So it's not quite the clean-cut solution. That said, if you framed it as a way of supporting people with the cost of living crisis, then yeah, maybe this is something that could boost not only getting people back into the office, But employee engagement and wellbeing along with it. So in terms of, I guess, the easiest problem to solve first, I guess, if you're an employee or an employer, is understanding how much more it actually costs to work from home versus work in the office. And there's no real consensus on this in terms of what people believe the right answer to be. It's kind of a 40/40 split in terms of people thinking it's more cost-effective to commute, people thinking it's more cost-effective to work from home.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottAnd then the remaining 20% feeling that an office-home split is going to be as cost-effective. And I guess it's because we've never really sat down and figured that out before. But as you said, you know, with energy prices raising at the rate they are, yeah, this is something that, that now may make a difference. So I think you've got some stats, Al, haven't you, on how much it actually costs to work from home?
Al ElliottYeah, I think so. I'm gonna have to refer to my notes over here. But so the main thing, as we probably know from working from home, is the heating. And, you know, there's, there's the old joke that, that at Christmas, you know, that your dad always makes you put a jumper on rather than turning the heating on. But obviously there's some facts behind that because the heating is the most expensive thing in, in your house. So we've talked about it. So Leanne's done a little bit of research, and to heat your house for one day, it'll cost you £18. Now, are these the existing numbers, Leanne, or are these the new numbers?
Leanne ElliottUm, so these were taken within the last 3 weeks. Um, so yes, they're recent, but then they probably might have gone up already.
Al ElliottPotentially. So what we're saying is that for 1 day it's £18. What's that, about $20? Um, to heat your, to heat your house. Uh, for 5 days you're talking about £90. For a month, you know, what is— what should we do it in dollars? Because nice easy numbers. So 30 times 20 is $600 just to heat your, heat your house. Um, this is US dollars. Then to keep your computer running, it says about £6 a month, but that's probably based on most people turning it off. Um, I don't know about you, but I don't turn my computers off at night. Probably should actually, but I don't turn them off at night. Um, you've got tea, coffee, all that kind of thing. That's probably about a quid, quid 50. Um, so at this point, if you're not careful, then just for a 5-day working week, you're in it for £100.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.
Al ElliottUm, £100 UK pounds. So That's, you know, you've got to compare that to commuting. Um, now, did you, did you do some stats on some, on some prices on commuting or costs on commuting there?
Leanne ElliottI did, I did, but to be honest, there's so many different variables that talking through it, I'm not sure they'll make much sense. But of course, fuel for, you know, diesel, petrol is going up in price as well. Um, so if you do drive to work, that might be something that, you know, is much more expensive than it used to be, whereas public transport I know in Manchester recently they brought in a standard fare, so wherever you go in Manchester you won't be charged more than £2. So it might be that, you know, some of the local councils are starting to respond to the cost of living crisis as well in terms of public transport. So what might have been an expensive option before may now be more cost-effective. But I think exactly what you said there, Al, if it is a rough rule of thumb, as of October 2022, to work from home in terms of energy and heating, it's going to cost you about £100 a week, or what, $120. But of course, these are all UK-based prices, so you'd need to work that out yourself, friend. But yes, so about £100. If it costs you less to commute than £100, then you may be better working from the office.
Al ElliottBut I mean, there's got to be a consideration as well that working from the office isn't just about saving money. You are going to be with people you know, and there's camaraderie and potential sort of Idea is that it's easier to collaborate sometimes when you're with people. So those are things you've got to factor in. But essentially what you are saying is that if it's costing— if it costs you less than £100 a week to commute into the office, then potentially it's going to be cheaper doing that than it is from working at home.
Leanne ElliottAbsolutely. And I think in terms of businesses that are currently operating a hybrid model, yes, there are going to be other potential benefits of people coming to the office. Like you said, collaboration has been cited as one, knowledge sharing, and particularly amongst Newer or younger employees. And in terms of onboarding as well, you know, if you have new starters, then, then yeah, that's been cited as something that is easier to do in the office. I say cited because I think it all depends on how you handle that situation. That's a different conversation for a different day. But I think you're absolutely right that the focus needs to be the cost of living crisis. So if you're having conversations, and you should be having conversations with your employees, have one-to-ones over the next next few, you know, next few days, next few weeks. Ask them how they're being impacted by the cost of living crisis. Ask them how they are, you know, feeling financially. Point out that, you know, you've heard some research, it costs about £100 a week to work from home. Go through some calculations with them, encourage them to look at that. And equally, look at your own P&L and your own business costs and actually figuring out, you know, how many people you want in the office and the cost of that. But yeah, the focus should be on, on the employee and supporting them through the cost of living crisis, which, you know, it's, it's been around for about 12 months already. It's really starting to bite now, and I think the next 6 months are going to be really difficult for a lot of people.
Al ElliottDefinitely. So let's switch to talking about hybrid models here. So a hybrid model, first of all, can you just define a hybrid work workplace model, and then tell us what you think it means, this cost of living crisis means, for the hybrid work model.
Leanne ElliottSo a hybrid work model is when employees will spend some of their time in the office and some of their time working from home. The frequency of that will vary from business to business, from individual to individual, but having that split of working from home and working in the office That is a hybrid model of work. So in terms of how it's going to— what's going to mean for businesses with the hybrid model, I think the first thing it is, is costs, you know, cost to your business, cost to the individual. And added that in, either, you know, increased costs alongside rising prices, that could cause, you know, some real financial challenges for both business leaders and employees. So yeah, I think if you're And I guess similarly, if you're currently operating at a fully remote model or a fully work-from-the-office model, I guess it's just a case of understanding, you know, the financial impact this is going to have and potentially the psychological impact this is going to have on people that are struggling as well.
Al ElliottSo how is this different to previous sort of economic challenges, I think is a polite way of putting it?
Leanne ElliottAs you said, I think with this one, it really is just the perfect storm of so many things that are impacting the economy at the moment. And I think what I was actually listening to, um, um, a presentation by an economist the other day, and he was kind of talking about, you know, the, the trouble or the, the added challenge with this economic situation is just the factors of it that we've never quite seen before, or we've not had the same lead-up before. And one thing that he was actually saying was jobs in the UK. So bearing in mind that we have, I think we've already had a month of contraction, haven't we, in the UK? We've not quite hit the recession yet, but it is coming. But at this point, the UK still has the lowest unemployment rate that it has since the 1970s. It's currently only at 3.5%, and there is still, you know, More than a million job vacancies advertised right now. So, in terms of people being in work, it's better than it ever has been. But I think that is the tricky thing, is whether, as the economic crisis goes on, the cost of living crisis goes on, is it going to start to affect jobs? Plus, we've got the disruption of these new ways of working as well, which we've not really experienced on this scale before. Given the economic challenge or potential recession we're going into. And with that, just the levels of disruption, you know, so much has changed so quickly. And we just seem to be— and I think this is kind of the good and bad side of it, is that the bad is that, you know, how much more disruption can we take? You know, psychologically, we're all exhausted by the last 3 years. It's been a lot. But equally, we were shown how resilient and adaptable we are. I was actually reading that, you know, they had the Tube strike. recently in London, um, that there's something ridiculous like— I don't— can't remember the numbers, but for argument's sake, let's just say it was like 50,000 people had to find an alternative route to work because these, these particular lines were— or stations were, were closed because of the strikes. Um, and they can track it by the Oyster card, right? Which is like the little, um, like a little electronic card that you top up and then you tap to like go on a bus or a tube or a train. Like, it covers all of Transport for London systems. So 50,000 people had to completely change their journeys. After the strikes finished, something like 15,000 to 20,000 people didn't return to the tube. They didn't return to their normal way of getting to work. They'd either found a better way or a different way. I just thought that was really amazing that such a high percentage of people were experiencing that disruption. But actually found a solution that was maybe better for them in the long term. And I think this is where kind of the, the cost of living crisis and hybrid work come together. Hybrid work is still so new, and we're still trying to figure it out. I'm not sure we can entirely predict how the cost of living crisis is going to impact it. But what we can be sure of is this disruption, it goes one of two ways, doesn't it? Either it either drains us to the point of burnout Or, you know, it gives us that adaptability and resilience that we need to make things better and perhaps make hybrid work work.
Al ElliottYeah, I think we're all going to see some very, very different things going on over the next sort of 5 years with work as people redefine what work means. I mean, as we've talked before about, you know, people can have their own recording studio at home using an iPhone and a microphone. Um, so there's different ways, and, and I certainly anecdotally, I've heard a lot of people, uh, are saying that sort of the Gen Zs, are they called Zoomers now? Is that what they call themselves?
Leanne ElliottAre they?
Al ElliottI think so.
Leanne ElliottZoomers.
Al ElliottI'll have to check that. Um, but, um, but yeah, so, and so I think what, what they're looking for is saying, okay, well, I can build a YouTube channel and I can make money that way rather than actually having to go to work. And whether they can or not, obviously time will tell. And, and the stats suggest that Only a small percentage of them will actually make money from that, but it is redefining the way that we look at work. Um, so I think there's going to be some massive, massive changes. Now, you've said before that, um, one of the biggest problems with work is stress. Now, obviously, if you've got financial issues, surely that's going to be one of the biggest factors for stress at the moment.
Leanne ElliottYeah, absolutely. And that's what we're, you know, we're starting, starting to see more of. I mean, you know, even I think for, for many years, people who are, you know, usually aged between mid-20s, mid-30s, financial pressures can be a bit more acute. And that's still true now. So 35% of 25 to 34-year-olds have cited financial pressures as a cause of stress, which actually makes it the most common cause of stress outside of work. So if you bear in mind that that is probably going to increase and intensify with the cost of living crisis, Then yeah, stress. As a business leader, I would be worried about the levels, the increased levels of stress driven by financial challenges that my team are going to experience, because we all know stress is not good.
Al ElliottHmm.
Leanne ElliottYou'll know this already, job stress, it makes employees more prone to error, it can cause dips in performance, it can trigger mental health challenges, burnout, absenteeism, conflict in the workplace, Even, you know, and if job stress does go unaddressed, then it's going to start to transcend the impacts on the individual and start to have impacts on the business, including turnover and disengagement. So yeah, in terms of stress, we already know that it costs businesses billions of pounds a year. That is why there is so much money put into the health and wellness sector. And yeah, The reality is the cost of living crisis has the potential, the very real potential, to increase stress levels, and increased stress levels are bad for business. Did you know that the UK's number one management podcast— that's us, by the way— and the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioural science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Al ElliottEpisode, and 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good-looking. And you're not gonna say which. Phil, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in 3s—
Leanne Elliottthe HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless, seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. Uh, we've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York Indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work, and we talk about the behavioural science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff, and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.
Leanne ElliottIt is. It's such. It's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing, but there's also just some really interesting episodes. It'll be. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
Al ElliottIt can.
Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?
Al ElliottI am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back. Definitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this.
Leanne ElliottSo come back.
Al ElliottI'll cut that out. Keep that in. So let's get practical. So what tips would you give to business leaders? What are their priorities right now?
Leanne ElliottI think the first thing is to really look at, you know, what financially works for you. You know, if we're heading into a cost of living crisis, the last thing we want is, you know, businesses getting to a point where it's no longer financially viable for them to operate. So I think, you know, look at your numbers, talk to your accountant, figure out the costs. What are the increased costs if more people are coming to the office or more people are coming in more frequently? And from a cost perspective, figure out what works.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne Elliottfor the business, and then you might want to feed that into your current hybrid working policy, or indeed maybe create one if you are currently a fully remote or a fully static workplace. So I think that's the thing, is it's one of those things— put your own mask on before you help other people. Figure out your financial situation and what works for you. And then of course, you know, financial wellbeing is a term that you might not be familiar with, but I promise you over next 3 months, it's going to be everywhere. So to give you a definition, because you know I like that, Al, financial wellbeing is a state of being wherein a person can fully meet current and ongoing financial obligations, can feel secure in their financial future, and is able to make choices that allow them to enjoy life. And financial wellbeing is actually one of the 4 main factors that create, uh, well-being, psychological well-being, um, as a term and as a point of research. I think you have some experience with financial well-being, Al. Tell the kind people.
Al ElliottYeah, yeah, I have. Um, I think, um, if you listened before, you'll know that back in about 2007— well, by 2002, I started a business, um, and, uh, it was delivering beer to students in Leeds and Manchester after hours. Great idea in theory, In practice, didn't make a lot of money from it. And then the licensing law changed, which meant that anyone could go to the local shop and buy beer at 2 o'clock in the morning. My business went from £20,000 a week to about £200 a week, and everything sort of imploded. I ended up going— well, I ended up going bankrupt for about £102,000. But the lead-up to that was, I think, the most stressful time of my life because Um, I had like credit card bills of like £10,000 on here. I had a, a van that, um, that got repossessed. Um, I had, uh, I bought like stupidly, I went and took a lease out on a new BMW because I was doing property sales to, to basically make money. And I was told that I couldn't drive around in my battered old transit van. I had to go and get a decent car. So I went and took a lease out for that, which I couldn't really afford. And the whole thing just imploded.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottAnd I remember I was in my apartment that I was well late on rent for, um, and, uh, the bailiffs came to the door. They were knocking on the door, and I was saying to my, uh, to my flatmate, shh, don't say anything. Um, and the bailiffs were like, we can hear you talking, we know you're in there. And it was like, oh my God. Silly things like we used to go to the supermarket at 10 to 10 before it closed so we could go and buy all the stuff that was cheap. I remember one time we walked into Sainsbury's, which is like a local supermarket in the UK, um, and it just said It just said as many bakery products as you want for a pound. And so I went around, I was just getting carrier bags full of bread rolls and stuff that was slightly stale. And then they took them home, froze them, and that was our dinner. But anyway, I don't want to get the violins out because after that, I managed to build a successful company based on debt, which was interesting. But yeah, that was really, really, really, really tough. And it just consumed me.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottI just felt like every day I'd wake up and have this huge weight on my chest of going, oh my God, today I need to go and make at least £500 so that of that £450, it was to pay my debt. And I was left £50 a day to kind of like live on and pay all my rents and all that kind of stuff, which obviously the maths didn't add up. So I mean, what was— it's funny, when I went bankrupt, the actual day I went bankrupt, I went to court. And I don't know if you've ever been bankrupt. Well, no, you haven't. I haven't, Leanne, but if you're listening, you've ever been bankrupt, um, is I thought it was going to be like a big courtroom with where you see on TV where there's going to be a judge in a wig and people, you know, people wandering around with wigs on and saying, I, I put it to you, sir, that so-and-so, so-and-so. And it's not. You go into a little tiny room, you give your paperwork, and then about an hour later they come back with it stamped and went, right, you're bankrupt. And I remember walking out and the first feeling I had was terror, like, oh my God, my life is over. I'm never going to be able to get a mortgage. By the way, I have now got a mortgage, so that's a load of rubbish. No one's going to give me a job again. I started my own business based on people who were going bankrupt, so that was a good thing. But also then, as the afternoon sort of developed, and I had a couple of beers because I was so like, oh, as the afternoon developed, I felt more relief. And then I woke up the next morning for the first time in such a long time, just feeling, oh my God, every pound I earn today I can use to spend. on living rather than having to worry about paying debt. So all this to say, not necessarily to tell you about my experience, but more to say that if you've never had money worries, then you don't know what it's like and how consuming it can be. And when I was doing my property sales, I know I wasn't spending— I was giving it 100%. I was giving it 40% because 60% of my attention was on thinking, how am I going to eat tonight? How am I going to pay all these bills? Oh my God, I've got, you know, another letter from the mortgage company, um, saying that they're going to repossess me, etc., etc. So I don't want you to underestimate how important financial well-being is.
Leanne ElliottWell said. That was— yeah, and I think even you could tell, like, the, the— you could see and hear the anxiety in your voice as you kind of recalled that time. And, and, you know, again, relaxing as you moved on. I think you're right, you You cannot underestimate the impact of poor financial wellbeing. Yeah, and in terms of not only on you as an individual, but on your performance, your productivity, your relationships, it is really far-reaching. So yeah, so this is a real important moment for business leaders to step up. And you know, there's lots around about wellbeing. Financial wellbeing might not have been a focus or something you've heard much about, but it is going to be. And, you know, as the thing is with every crisis, as Al said, then comes incredible opportunity. And one of the things that I know you would have heard of is, you know, the ongoing fight for talent, skill shortages, and how the importance of having a really attractive employer brand is, you know, key to competitive advantage in this type of market. And this gives you the opportunity to do that. Reason being, um, there was a recent survey— again, I think it was Randstad— in October 2022, so bang on recent, um, that asked, does your employer offer access to financial wellbeing or money advice sessions to help with the cost of living crisis? Al, guesstimations on how many organisations said yes?
Al ElliottWhat was the question?
Leanne ElliottDoes, does your employer offer access to financial wellbeing or money advice sessions to help with the cost of living crisis?
Al ElliottMy gut instinct says pretty low. I'd probably go with somewhere around about 30%.
Leanne ElliottSlightly lower, but very close. Yeah, 26%. So a little over a quarter of businesses are currently offering financial wellbeing and money advice. 40% said no, and the remainder wasn't sure. I think that's actually quite a chunky— was it 35% said they weren't sure? Quite a chunky number of people, percentage. My suspicion as to why this might be the case is that there's lots of organisations out there, including clients that we work with at Oblong, that will have things in place like employee assistance programmes or employee benefits benefit platforms. Perks is one that comes to mind, and within that they will have lots of add-ons and services and things that people can access. And 99% of them will have something around financial wellbeing, money advice, debts, mortgages, all that type of thing. So if you have one of these things in place, then, you know, have some awareness sessions with your staff, show them what is available, Um, you know, role-play it out, role model it, use something, and give them your experience of how you found it. Um, because yeah, if, if that is the case, that 35% of businesses have these, um, services but people just aren't sure how to access them, then there's a massive opportunity, um, with no extra expense. Um, and if you are part of that 40% that don't, um, then you are lagging behind your competitors. So this is something that you need to prioritize immediately.
Al ElliottYeah, I think Leanne's a big proponent of employer brand, and there's lots of aspects of employer brand, but one of the main things is just being a nice place to work and caring about the wellbeing of your teams. And you mentioned Perks then, which I know that you've spoken to the MD, I think, a couple of times for Perks. It's not particularly expensive, is it?
Leanne ElliottNo, it's, it's Oh, I mean, I couldn't tell the exact price, but I think it's somewhere around kind of £3 to £5 per employee per month, depending on the package that you choose. So yeah, it's not much. And she was actually saying to me actually that there are some organizations that— small organizations that didn't have the full budget to offer it to employees fully paid. And so what they actually did is, is like a They did like a wage thing, so it comes out of your wages. The employer pays for it, but it comes out of their wages, which I mean isn't ideal, and you need to be careful how you spin that. But at the same time, if somebody is having significant financial challenges and the thought of spending money might be triggering, but if that £3 a month is going to give them access to services that are going to help them fully transform their financial wellbeing, then that might be an investment. investment well made. But yeah, it's not much, and I think that's something that when you are sitting down, as I said at the top, doing your numbers and figuring out what you can afford as a business, try and find a way to afford something like this if you don't already have it in place. If not for the wellbeing and performance of your employees and your business, but for your competitive advantage.
Al ElliottBrilliant. Brilliant. And it is a really good— I mean, there's other platforms out there available, but I mean, they do things like mindfulness. There's, I think there's physical, like PT, there's all kinds of financial stuff on there. So it's definitely worth looking at.
Leanne ElliottSo as we're getting up to about 35 minutes, then is there anything else that you think is important to mention to leaders now who want to help people with the cost of I think empathy is one of the best things you can display as a leader in any circumstance, but particularly in this, and particularly in the area where people aren't as, you know, as comfortable to talk about their financial situations and potential financial challenges. So having that empathy, sharing stories if you've had a similar story to Al, you know, it's gonna be, gonna be helpful. And listen, you know, and I think we're hearing this a lot, but it's not just about the cost of living crisis. Yeah. With empathy, it's important to listen first, let somebody get the current circumstance off their chest and what they're going through, and then come at them with the solutions. Don't necessarily go diving in. Awareness is a big thing. As I said, if you've got those programmes in place, making sure your employees know how to access them, both in terms of financial support and there's also things like shopping vouchers.
Al ElliottYes.
Leanne Elliottand stuff now, like cashback and that type of thing. Show them how much they can save, show them what they can do to reduce their bills down. And awareness— there are lots of organisations out there that offer support, free support, to people who are suffering. So signpost to these external services. For example, I think there's a Citizens Advice Bureau is a really good port of call for everything to do with that. And in terms of what they'll also be able to do is help you as well in terms of any benefits that you may be eligible for, in terms of child tax credits or tax breaks if you're married, all that type of stuff. And yeah, any kind of debt helplines out there, we'll leave lots of links in the show notes for you. I think it really is just a case of making sure that if you can't offer the support within your business, look at ways that you You may be able to, and at the very least, signpost to external services.
Al ElliottBrilliant. Absolutely brilliant. There's a guy called Martin Lewis, a money-saving expert in the UK, and I know that he's getting traction in the US and Australia now. And he's always got some really good ideas. In fact, with interest rates going up at the moment, there's a particular term, and I've forgotten what it's called. But quite often, you can go and take money from a credit card, or from a loan on a low interest rate, and then invest it in a saving account at a higher interest rate, and you can make money that way. Now, obviously, speak— go to his site and read what he's talking about, because I've— I did it way, way back then and I messed it up. Um, but there's all kinds of different ways like that. And I think just being really, like Leanne said, being really empathetic. Um, and if you are a business owner, chances are you've had money struggles because most business owners spend the first year or 2 years balancing everything. Just tell your story.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottYou know, I think just being really open, and I've found that the number of speaking gigs I got back when I'd gone bankrupt, I thought nobody wanted to talk to me, and everybody wanted to talk to me. They wanted me to come and do, uh, do presentations on being bankrupt because, you know, not many people are actually able to talk about it and be honest about it. So, so I think, yeah, empathy, honesty, and just, you know, just be good people if you can.
Leanne ElliottYep, absolutely. And one other organization actually that's just sprung to mind that I actually referred a client to, uh, last week is an organization called Prosperity Employee— sorry, Prosperity Wealth, who offer a range of services around employee benefits and financial wellbeing. They usually have a free webinar every kind of 4 to 6 weeks, so have a look on their website. Again, we'll link it. And they actually also offer— and I think this particular offer may be finished now in the UK— because you were able to schedule a free 10-minute conversation to benchmark your current staff benefits compared to your competitors. So yeah, have a look on their website. It covers not only salary, but 10 key benefits such as pension, health schemes, and lots of other good stuff. So have a look at that. We'll leave it in the show notes. And yeah, get in touch. The reason I feel confident referring them is they are the people who actually put me onto Perks in the beginning, which I've had some dealings with. I said. And also, my client went through this last week and found it a really helpful consultation. So yeah, we'll put that link in for you.
Al ElliottFabulous. Okay, so if you enjoyed this, then do us a favour, subscribe, and also tell someone else about it, or a few other people about it. As you know, we're only on what, episode 11 now, is it?
Leanne ElliottYeah, I think so.
Al ElliottSo we're only brand new. And we've got this support from HubSpot now, but we also need the support from you. So feel free to share this, tell your friends, and yeah, we'll see you next time, I think.
Leanne ElliottSee you soon.
Al ElliottBye-bye. Bye.