Episode 145 · 14 November 2024 · 48:40

Why projects fail and how to fix them: A masterclass with Laura Barnard

Featuring Laura Barnard

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Intro — welcome to Truth, Lies & Work
intro#podcast-intro #welcome
Meet Laura Barnard, The PMO Lady
interview#project-management #pmo #laura-barnard
What is a project manager (and do you need one)?
interview#project-manager #business-needs
The Agile vs. Waterfall methodology debate
interview#agile #waterfall #methodology
When does a business need a PMO?
interview#pmo #business-growth
Can a one-person PMO work?
interview#one-person-pmo #small-team
Why projects fail — the top reasons
interview#project-failure #reasons
Real-world example: prioritising with buckets
interview#prioritization #real-world-example
Does prioritisation have to come from the top?
interview#leadership #prioritization
The IMPACT Engine System explained
interview#impact-engine-system #training

Show notes

Why Projects Fail and How to Fix Them: A Masterclass with Laura Barnard

Guest: Laura Barnard — "The PMO Lady," 2021 World's Top PMO Influencer, founder of PMO Strategies and creator of the IMPACT Engine.

You've got a brilliant idea. You rally the team, set the vision, and then… nothing happens the way you expected. Sound familiar?

Laura joins Al and Leanne to explain why most projects fail, why your brilliant ideas never seem to pan out, and what a Project Management Office (PMO) actually is — and why even small teams need one. She shares her IMPACT Engine system for accelerating strategy delivery, weighs in on the Agile vs. Waterfall debate, and explains why the strategy execution gap is the silent killer of good intentions.

Top 3 Takeaways

You don't need a certification to be a project manager. The industry says it's about credentials and years of training — Laura says it's about whether you can get things done and deliver outcomes.
Most projects fail before they start. Lack of clarity on business goals and poor prioritisation are the silent killers. If you can't say "no" to the wrong things, you'll never say "yes" to the right ones.
Strategy and execution must be integrated. The gap between what leaders decide and what teams deliver is the biggest source of wasted effort — and it's fixable with the right structure.

Connect With Us

Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect

Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14

Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.

Full transcript

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midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)The dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.

Al ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Nice. Check out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.

Al ElliottHello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning psychology podcast brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a chartered psychologist. My name is Al.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)I'm a business owner.

Al ElliottWe are here to help you simplify the science of work and create amazing workplace cultures.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Welcome, welcome. You're on Thursday today, but if you like to keep up to date with the latest news, love a good Agony Aunt segment, then you're gonna love our Tuesday episodes where we do all of those things. But this is not Tuesday. Leanne, school us. What happens on Thursday?

Al ElliottThis is Thursday. Thursdays we bring you some really cool guest interviews, and today we are diving into a topic that is often overlooked but actually very crucial to employee engagement and business success. Effective project management. Bear with me. Specifically, we're looking at the project management office, or PMO, and how it can help streamline workload and drive engagement. The reason this is important— important, let's face it, most disengagement we see from our clients stems from overloaded teams, high workloads, clunky processes. In a small business, yes, workload may always be high, but efficiency is key. People should spend their time on tasks that actually add value. So in this episode, we aim to answer 3 questions. Why do we need project managers or project management offices? Question 2, why do most projects fail and how can we fix them? And 3, why do my brilliant ideas never seem to pan out? I know that I could think that quite a lot, and I'm sure as a business owner you have thought that as well. Our guest today has been called the PMO Lady, and in 2021 was named the world's top PMO influencer. After spending 20 years in the trenches building PMOs and driving business transformation, Laura Barnard founded PMO Strategies with one clear mission: to help organisations turn their brilliant plans into reality.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Yep, she's developed a powerful system called Impact Engine that's changed how businesses think about project management, and a refreshingly practical approach has made her one of, one of the most sought-after voices in the field. Laura believes that project management isn't just about ticking boxes and following processes, it's about creating real impact. A few days ago, before Leanne was ill, Leanne interviewed Laura and asked her to share some of her hard-earned wisdom about why our best-laid plans often go astray, and more importantly, how to fix that.

Al ElliottSo let's go and join the interview and meet Laura Barnard, the PMO Lady.

Laura BarnardI am known as the PMO Lady, and in 2021 was named the top global influencer in the space, specifically because I think a lot of it has to do with The way we talk about the work that we're doing and how we're trying to elevate a whole industry to think differently about project management, business transformation, and get everyone aligned on trying to help organizations accelerate strategy delivery. Not too long ago, I released a book called The Impact Engine, which is all about accelerating strategy delivery. And it's designed for these people that are running these business transformation or strategy delivery functions inside organizations, which some people call a PMO. I started my career in the technology field in computer science and then found that there was this role for people who knew how to get other people to get things done. And that was called project management. So shortly after going into the project management field, I found that I really loved helping those get-it-done people get things done. And that's when I started building what is called a project management office, PMOs. And then in 2013, I started my own company called PMO Strategies for that project management office, specifically because I wanted to help other companies learn the easier way, all the things I had to learn the hard way, doing a lot of this work inside organizations. So over the years, that's what I've been doing.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Leigh, can I start by asking a bit of a stupid question?

Al ElliottNever stopped you before.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)I'm not from the corporate world. I haven't had a job since 2002. And although I do know what a project is, what the heck is the difference between someone who's managing a project and someone who is a perfect professional Project manager, I can't even say it. And where does Agile come in? Scrum? Waterfall? I don't get it.

Al ElliottYeah, I mean, I've got your back, Al. I asked Laura this exact question. Laura, school Al for me, will you? Can we just define what a project is? Because I think a lot of people manage projects, few people are project managers. What's the difference between somebody who manages a project and a professional project manager?

Laura BarnardSo here's the thing. The industry will say that it's based on your certification and years of training and Experience and and all of this stuff that you must be to be a project manager. But I disagree. I think anybody that manages projects, which is pretty much all of us, is a project manager, whether they have the title or not. Because you know, think about it. If you're the person in your family that ends up being the one that has to plan all the family vacations, you're a project manager. Anybody that has to do the work to define a clear deliverable or an outcome they're trying to achieve, and it's changing. something, that's a project. I mean, people in our space, in the industry, tend to overcomplicate it. Anyone that's got a goal they want to achieve, a place they want to go, a service that they need to produce, an outcome they're trying to drive, the way you get there is through change. And change, the way you deliver change is through projects. I've been in all kinds of industries around the world, a small business owner myself, and I find that even all the way up to the C-suite, we sometimes have to be the one that's managing the projects in order to get them done. And there's really great techniques and simple ways that you can do it better to make sure you're not just creating a thing, but that that thing is actually driving the better business outcomes you're trying to achieve.

Al ElliottI want to, I want to now dive into the project management world. And I'm not gonna lie, when I dip my toe into it, or I speak to somebody who's a PMO, project office manager, I'm thrown terms like agile, Waterfall, PRINCE2, PMP. I'm sure for a business owner out there who just starts to slightly Google project management methodology is hit with a wall of information. What's the truth of it? Is there a preferred methodology, a best practice methodology? Is it dependent on the situation? Can you help just simplify some of all of that for us?

Laura BarnardYeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. So, all right, here's the thing. There are a lot of methodology zealots out there that will say, this is the way to do it. This is the only way. And if we don't do it this way, then it's not going to be successful kind of language, right? Like this. But, but what I find to be the truth in my world and with all of our clients and students that we have and we work with all around the world is that it's so much more about putting common sense into common practice. Do what makes sense for your organization in your context and based on the problem you're trying to solve. For example, there are— if you were building a home, there are certain things you have to do in a certain order. Some people would call that waterfall. However, there's definitely iterations going on and a need to be agile as you get to the point of paint colors. And let's say, you know, of course, you have to build the foundation, and then you can put up the, you know, the wood to get to You know, the walls, and then you have to do the roof, and those things have to happen in that order. That's the typical traditional project management structure. However, when you get to that homeowner and they're trying to decide paint colors, and you put one paint color on the wall and they don't like it and you have to change it, but you, you probably want to paint just a little bit, let them look at the color before you decide to paint the whole room. Well, that is being agile, right? And doing things in iterations and saying, okay, let's get more Real-time engagement and feedback from our customers in order to figure out what success looks like as we go. Because the market shift, the market could shift, or, you know, the requirements could change, or customers could change their mind. And that adaptive and iterative framework for methodology for implementing change allows you to be more nimble and flexible and meet the needs of your customers, as opposed to saying the whole house is going to be painted blue. And then you go to the customer. And they say, "I really wanted one of these rooms to be pink," right? So it allows you for that opportunity to you know not waste all the paint, if you will. So that's why a lot of people in the industry moved away from a traditional approach and to this adaptive agile methodology. The challenge is that you do have to put the foundation on before you can put the walls up, right? So there are certain So, do what makes sense, right? In some contexts, it makes sense. Like, if you're building technology, some fundamental things like developing the database and getting certain technology components in place have to be done in a certain order. But, and even people in the agile space still have to chunk it out into stages. But the idea is make sure that you are getting real-time customer feedback as it makes sense to do so. But you can only do that when you have something to show them.

Al ElliottRight.

Laura BarnardSo, you have to be a little bit further in the process. So, there's, I believe that the right way is the right way to achieve that particular business problem for that customer, for that service you're creating, for that capability you're building. And that anyone that tells you there's only one way to do it really doesn't understand what the real world is all about, because it's all about doing just what makes sense in that scenario. And so, when we work with Organizations, when we help them build, whether that's a one-person project management office or a larger team, we, we still never let them say that all projects must be done a certain way because you need to be responsive, that this PMO function has to be responsive to the business needs of the organization it serves. It's a service function, and it needs to be ensuring that we're doing what makes sense to achieve the strategic goals as quickly as possible with the highest return on investment as possible. That's what it's all about, accelerating strategy delivery. So, whatever makes sense in the moment, whatever services, whatever methodology, whatever templates or tools or capabilities you need to build should be to solve the specific business problems of that organization.

Al ElliottAnd when does an organization get to a point where a PMO would be beneficial?

Laura BarnardOh, I'm really glad you asked that question because, you know, some people would say, well, you have to be a certain size. And I'm asked this question often, actually, because we work with some very, very big global brand names that have project management offices, or we've also worked with companies as small as 12 people. One of our most successful clients was a nonprofit member-based association that had 12 employees, but an enormous member base across the United States. And so their audience they served was huge, and they had a lot of big strategic programs they were running, but the core employee base was only 12 people. But a lot of people say, well, if it's a project management office, there's a whole bunch of people, a whole bunch of overhead. Not necessarily. You can have— and many of our organizations, small and large, start with one person in that role. It's all about the mindset, the goals of that function, and what they're trying to accomplish. And even in big organizations, they'll sometimes not really be ready to fully invest in this new operating model, but they will at least give one person the responsibility, at least for part of their time, in doing this kind of work that we talk about and we teach in our programs. And once they build that momentum, then the natural consequence is that things are going so well, we want to invest more in that because we're getting those better business outcomes faster, seeing the return on our investment in focusing on doing this work in an organized fashion, and we're achieving our goals. So let's keep doing more of that.

Al ElliottSo, is it as simple as a one-person PMO could just be one person accountable for managing a portfolio of projects across a business, or is there more to it?

Laura BarnardYep, yep, yep, exactly. So, one of the things that's a challenge in this space for those that are in the industry is that there's no one definition of what a project management office should be. And I say exactly, because that's a good thing, because even though I've written a book on how to build or elevate or even rescue your project management or delivery capability in an organization, it doesn't mean that you have to do it a certain way. I believe that every organization has different priorities, different goals, different strategies they're trying to deliver on. And this function, no matter how big or small it is, is there to accelerate strategy delivery. And therefore, whatever that looks like for that organization, that's what That PMO should be doing? Is it about helping to drive accelerated performance across a whole bunch of different customer-facing projects, for example? Right? It could be that it's a portfolio. I ran a PMO where there was a portfolio of customer-facing initiatives. It wasn't even about building internal capabilities. It was about delivering results for customers. That's one kind of service that you could deliver, or it could be all internal projects. We have a, you know, I run a small business and we have a PMO function where we have an entire portfolio.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Right.

Laura Barnardportfolio of all of our change efforts and the services we're building and the way we're delivering for our clients. And it's more capability building, right? It's a little bit of both. How do we solidify our own foundation? So for example, if we're doing technology upgrades for our operational functions, that's a project that needs to be managed, but so is the delivery of services that we're delivering for clients. So you could have a PMO that is, well, really it should be right-sized to exactly what business problems you're trying to solve, and, and ensuring that you're solving them as fast as you can, with the highest return on investment you can.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)After this short break, we're going to find out why projects fail, why it's so hard to get your ideas implemented by your team, and Laura shares a process for managing projects that will make your life so much easier. See you in a second.

Al ElliottDid you know that the UK's number 1 management podcast, that's us, by the way, and the UK's number 1 marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)We actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioral science to help people do better at work.

Al ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)And 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good looking. And you're not going to say which. Phil, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in 3s—

Al Elliottthe HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business Seamless, seamless.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. We've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioral science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well. It is.

Al ElliottIt's so It's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)It can.

Al ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)I am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.

Al ElliottBut come back.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Yeah, come back. Definitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this.

Al ElliottSo come back.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)I'll cut that out. Keep that in. Welcome back. Let's get right into what they call the meat and potatoes of it. Why do projects fail? What are the common reasons for a failed project? Laura has the answers.

Laura BarnardWe don't have enough time in this episode for all of those reasons, but I will give you a few of like the top ones, the most, the most significant ones that we see again and again. No matter the size of the organization, there are some truths That seem to plague every size organization. And I think it's because it all comes back to the people. And there are ways that people operate, and if they don't have the right education and coaching and support, they fall into some of these same traps. One of them is doing the projects for the sake of the project, as opposed to achieving goals. Sometimes, and especially for project people that are trained and/or getting certified and have had a lot of classroom experience with You must do these things in order for a project to be successful. Often the problem is, is that the way that the industry is taught is about, well, let's perfect our templates, tools, and process and the outputs we're creating instead of ensuring that every project we're doing is driving toward the business outcomes. So whenever, especially in small businesses, but all businesses, we want to make sure that everybody doing the work understands why they're there and what the business outcomes they're there to drive. are all about. And here's something scary. Harvard Business Review did a study that said 95% of the typical workforce does not understand their company strategy. 95%. Can you imagine? So you have most people in an organization who have no idea why they're doing what they're doing. So how could they possibly help you ensure that your projects that are to create change to achieve a business goal are successful if they don't know what those business goals are. So, I think one of the biggest things that we have to make sure is that everybody in your organization understands why they're doing the work they're doing, not just how to do that work well. Because well might mean checking boxes versus ensuring that those better business outcomes are being achieved. And sometimes trying to perfect the process will prevent you from getting to those better business outcomes. So, you have to really make sure that, like in our organization, everybody from the people that answer the chat support on our websites to the people running our departments, everybody, well, we have some definite cheerleaders on our team and they all say, we're changing the world. That's our job, right? Because if we can help people figure out how to deliver their strategy more effectively, we are changing the world. And I think it's so important that everybody in your organization understands that and why you're there. So I would say that's probably the biggest. And then one of the second is a failure to prioritize or getting so busy being busy that they're not actually focused on getting the right things done. But the problem is, is if you don't prioritize, what you're telling your people is that nothing is important because if everything is important, nothing is. If you just make those shifts, you would see a huge acceleration in your organization's ability to deliver. And believe it or not, large or small, a lot of companies struggle with this.

Al ElliottOne thing we talk about a lot with, I guess, with clients is, and what often pops up when we talk about people and culture, is people are exhausted, people are burning out because they've got high workloads. And they're like, well, I can't hide the workload because this is what needs to get done. But it sounds like that would also be a really great, as you say, diagnostic exploratory activity to do, and go, well, actually, we're just expecting too much from a resource, spreading ourselves too thinly, not got the priorities. At the same time, I can hear a founder in my ear going, yeah, but Leanne, everything is a priority. I'm a small business. Everything is a priority. How do you go to a senior leader, a business founder, and go, everything can't be a priority, and how do you help them figure out what actually is?

Laura BarnardYeah, so, one of the organizations that we worked with was a smaller services-based organization. And they were really struggling with this problem. And it was, we were trying to get them to prioritize their client-facing projects. And they looked at me like I had 3 heads and they said, well, obviously they're all important. They're all paying customers. And in this case, there were some not so happy customers that had been on the phone with me threatening lawsuits and very frustrated as I talked to these CEOs. And I said, how about we take a look at those that are kind of really mad at us right now with big outstanding balances? Let's put our focus on solving their problems first, because if we do, we will increase revenue. We will not have angry customers, and we will start moving the needle on those projects first. Then we'll put those and kind of the big revenue generators in category A. And then, then we'll take this next group of customers and we'll put them in category B. And then the, the ones that are kind of like the lower maintenance, lower, you know, smaller changes or aren't really driving a lot of revenue.

Al ElliottYeah.

Laura BarnardWe'll put those in category C. And we called them buckets. So we had bucket A, bucket B, and bucket C. And it wasn't a 1 through N priority list, but it was a way for people to start thinking a little bit differently about where I should put my focus. Instill focus is the first step of the Impact Driver Mindset Shift, which is an acronym that's I is for instill focus. And that was one of their biggest problems is that they were treating everything like it was a number one priority. And as a result, Nobody knew what to work on, which means, and this is what we explained. I explained to the C-suite team. I said, "Listen, the result of this is that people are just responding to the squeaky wheel or the person complaining the most or the angry customer that calls, and when they drop everything to focus on that thing, all the other commitments that they've already made aren't happening. So you can't plan. You can't make good business decisions. You can't make commitments to your customers, which means your." Your brand in the industry is struggling because people are saying, I can't rely on anything they tell us. And so, I said, is that important to you? Well, of course it is. Okay. So then we're going to need to do something to change that. So, what we did is we didn't get them to the 1 through N priority right away, but we did get them to say bucket A, bucket B, bucket C, and then use that language to drive decisions in the organization. And the way it would work is that the C-suite would meet every day for a daily standup, which is another agile framework kind of a mindset, 15-minute daily standup where everyone stands up, talks about their top priority for the day, and they would use that bucket language. Well, what happened is that as that started cascading down into teams and the teams had more clarity around even this high level of priority, they could make and did make better decisions on their own. About where to focus based on those buckets, right? And they would say, okay, well, we're going to deal with this angry customer on a project that's super late. Let me do my part on that so I can pass that off to the next person so that they can get their thing done. But what happened is that there was an almost immediately tangible, recognizable, measurable increase in speed to For those projects, getting the throughput on those projects accelerated so much that we were off of those and onto the next set of priorities so fast. And it was all just by shifting the way they thought about what mattered and making some decisions. And sorry, as an executive, you have to make decisions and you have to decide, do you want everyone to be busy or do you want them to be productive? Outcome-focused and driving better business outcomes for the organization.

Al ElliottIs that the key? It has to come from top down, that prioritization?

Laura BarnardIt does, but it doesn't have to be the very top senior leader only in the organization. Even if you're managing, if any of your listeners are just managing a team or just managing your own work, right? You just have to choose how you want to operate. Do you want to operate in a way where you are constantly late, feeling busy, feeling stressed, overwhelmed? Or do you want to have clear, focused direction, goals? And frankly, you'll get a lot more done. I think that's what a lot of people— what we've found when we have to go do this with some C-suite executives, they get really anxious until we explain how it's going to work, not realizing that if they apply the techniques that we teach them, They are going to 2x, 3x, 4x, and sometimes even 5x the results of the projects they can complete in a single year. So, while, let's say, in your organization you were going to get 20 projects done a year, what would happen if you could do 100?

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Okay, on to the question that is on every leader or owner's lips: why do my brilliant plans never work out the way I imagine?

Al ElliottYeah, as I said at the top, it's a question I ask myself quite a lot as well, and this is exactly the question that Laura has been pondering over the last 15 years, and she's created the perfect system to manage projects so you get the exact outcome you're hoping for. She calls it the Impact Engine system and has even written a book on it called, well, obviously, The Impact Engine. Um, I wanted to find out exactly how this system worked and also how do you properly measure the success of a project using the Impact Engine. Because this all sounds great, like I'm, I'm in, I'm Laura, I'm with you. I want to work with you and help me manage my projects. How does the Impact Engine System feed into this? How does that help to structure projects in an organization?

Laura BarnardThe program that is called the Impact Engine System is a training and implementation program that the foundation is a core of a training and implementation program that we built that takes people step by step on the journey of building this kind of capability in their organization. And then that is how we, in our consulting practice, deliver for our clients. We take them through this same process because it works. It works every time. If you do the work, it works because it's all about figuring out what the business problems are for that organization. And then, you know, once you've done that assessment work, this is a mistake a lot of people make is that they start fixing symptoms instead of getting to the root causes. So one of the things that's really important that we've found through all these years doing this work is that a lot of people will try to throw templates and tools and process at solving a business problem, but they're really just looking at symptoms. And I'll give you a perfect example in a moment. And instead, we help them get to the root causes of those problems and then fix that. And when you do, you create this positive ripple effect throughout the organization where you fix Fewer things and got bigger results. So, and we, we help them lay all of this out of like figuring out what the problems are, getting to the root causes, putting the right solutions in place, and laying that out over an iterative agile implementation approach over time. So, over time, you're going to have this continuous value delivery model where you're continuing to improve capabilities and adding and solving the next problem that arises faster and faster than if you just spend all this time trying to solve everything at once and not actually getting any change in place, right? Nobody's patient enough for that. It's like, okay, go fix this problem. Now I got another problem. Now I got another problem. Let's see if we can fix them in a way that starts showing real tangible benefit and helping accelerate the delivery of the strategy, even if it's just a little bit at a time. But here's the thing, on top of all of that, you can run this process again and again and you're not going to get the results unless You do one thing, and that is shift your mindset to what we call the impact driver mindset, which is like the central gear of our entirely different operating model that we help organizations put in place. And it's all about shifting the focus from solving project problems to solving business problems, from focusing on perfecting outputs to driving better business outcomes, to forcing change on people versus Bringing people with you through the change process, right? And there's several techniques that we teach in this mindset shift that applies to everybody in every delivery role in an organization. Once they shift the way they think about the work they do and the outcomes they're there to drive, then it's— then the system, the new operating model that we put in place works so well. So, the Impact Engine system is this whole ecosystem of resources, training, support, hands-on, coaching, advisory services, that is an entirely new way to think about and deliver on your organization's strategy, whether it's internally focused projects to build capabilities and services or externally focused projects to deliver services for clients. Here's one of the different things that our system does and our approach does that a lot of people don't think about. Remember when I was talking about those root causes? I'm going to give you a perfect example of where things might go wrong in an organization. Remember, we're talking about prioritization. So what often happens in an organization is that people will start complaining, well, we have these projects or these changes we're trying to create, and it's always taking longer than it should and costing more than it should. Projects take too long, they cost too much. And so they'll bring in an outside consultant or hire someone in this PMO function, for example, and the executives are Complaining, I can't ever get anything done. Everything's taking so long. It's so frustrating. And then the project people come in and they start doing what they have been trained in the classroom to do, right? And they were hired for their knowledge. So therefore, they believe the more of that knowledge they apply to every single thing they do, the better. But what happens is you have these project people that are so focused on applying every single bit of that knowledge to every single thing they do, and they're taking so much time creating templates And tools and process and so much stuff. And the executives are saying, so what? Nothing's really gotten better. Projects are still taking a long time and they're still costing a lot of money. So instead, we have to figure out why those projects are taking so long. And we use the 5 Whys technique, which is a very simple root cause analysis technique. We have others as well that we use in our company, but I like this because a lot of people have a lot of experience, more than they realize, with the 5 Whys technique, because anyone that's actually been around a toddler is used to answering why, why, why, why, right? And so it's a very simple technique, even though with toddlers it's probably more like 50 whys, right? But you could say, okay, well, why are projects taking so long and costing so much? Well, if you go talk to the project managers, they say it's because everybody working on these projects never gets their stuff done on time. So then you go talk to those people and they say, well, I'd love to get my stuff done on these projects, but my boss also has all these other things they're asking me to do that's my day job. And I can't get those, I can't get it all done. So I'm just responding to whoever the squeakiest wheel is, right? So then you go look at that and you say, okay, so it's not actually the project manager's fault and it's not actually the team member's fault. We have a problem where there is a lack, there's a lack of alignment between the workload that the teams are, that this The manager is responsible for delivering for their department and these projects. So what's happening is we don't have clear priorities, and those priorities are in constant conflict. So it's not actually a— and everybody, by the way, still going back to the executive wants it all done yesterday, right? All these projects are number one priority. So therefore, you have your most critical resources spread across 16 different projects, and you're Who's getting anything done with one-sixteenth of a resource, right? So you don't have a resource—not enough resources problem—or projects take too long, cost too much problem. What you have is people trying to shove ten pounds of projects in a five-pound bag, right? You have them trying to do too many things at once with no clear focus. And still focus is one of those mindset shifts: no clear focus or way to say. This is what we should be doing. And without that, again, this is another one of those kind of mistakes we see happen again and again in large and small organizations. And the common thread is people, very hungry people that want to do well and achieve great things, not understanding that they're getting in their own way of being successful because they're so focused on being busy instead of being productive.

Al ElliottSo, is this mindset shift the key to closing that strategy and execution gap?

Laura BarnardIt is a fundamental foundation upon which everything else we teach is built. But I want to talk about the strategy-to-execution gap a little, if that's okay, because I think there's a real misunderstanding about that gap that everybody's talking about. And what typically happens if you read the books or hire the expensive consultants and they tell you, oh, well, here's your problem. This is the gap you need to close between strategy and execution. But there's a fundamental misunderstanding about how strategy and execution should operate when we look at it as the strategy-to-execution gap. And the reason so many organizations can't close the strategy-to-execution gap is because their very operating model has reinforced the gap between strategy and execution. I'll tell you exactly what I mean. First of all, there's actually 3 parts, not 2. It's not just strategy where the ideas are defined and we get this picture of our mission and our vision and what we want to do, the strategy to achieve those goals. And then there's the delivery, what we call the delivery engine, the execution of that strategy. But there's an important part that a lot of people aren't paying attention to, which is strategy realization. And that is where another gap exists so big that many people aren't even thinking It's not enough to just deliver that strategy. That strategy has to be delivered in a way that ensures that the intentions for that strategy are realized. Why do we do this in the first place? It wasn't just to do some things, it was to achieve certain business outcomes. And so, it's— we break it into strategy definition, strategy execution, and strategy realization. 3 different parts with many, many gaps built in by the way organizations operate. And here's a perfect example. The strategy might be defined by the senior leaders, but remember that 95% of the typical workforce doesn't understand the company strategy. What often happens is that the strategy's defined and they have a really great idea of where they like to go, and then they throw it over the fence to the execution people and say, okay, go do it. And the execution people say, what? What are we doing? Why? If you talk to people in organizations and you say, well, you just need to align the strategy to execution more effectively. They'll say, what strategy? Because they don't even understand the strategy that was thrown over the fence to them. And then they're off busy delivering, not really understanding why they're supposed to be doing what they're doing. And nobody's actually focused on making sure that, did we do what we said we were going to do after it's delivered? And did we achieve the business goals we set up and defined as our success criteria? Oh, we didn't even define success criteria. Well, that's a problem too, right? So what's happening is that there's so many places in an organization where there's disconnects taking place. And because of that, we have strategy in one place, execution in another place, and nobody paying attention to whether or not we're actually achieving our business goals. So we have an entirely different operating model that we help organizations put in place where strategy people And process and the delivery people and process are completely integrated from the start. So the people that are responsible for delivering that strategy are in the strategy process, understanding how the strategy is evolving, being developed, what success looks like, and gets that clarity from the very beginning so that they know that when it's delivered, they know what they're shooting for. They know where they're going. They have a roadmap and they know what success looks like. It's not just on time, on scope, on budget for a project. It's, did we actually get the new customers, get the additional revenue, improve our employee engagement or experience? Whatever the goals are, that needs to be clearly defined upfront. And the delivery people can help the strategy people do that. So, have everybody together in the beginning of the process and organize and operate your strategy development and planning to include the people responsible for delivery, who, by the way, can probably say whether or not these wild ideas you have could get done, especially in the timelines you'd like, right? And then the strategy people, the people that define what success looks like, aren't done when the strategy is handed over to people to deliver.

Al ElliottMm-hmm.

Laura BarnardThat is an incredibly important time for the delivery people to see and hear from the people that define that strategy, reinforce and remind them why we're doing what we're doing and what success looks like, and be available to make decisions, answer questions, and keep everyone focused on the goal. Because the perfection is not— it's not— the perfection isn't the delivery process. It's achieving those successful results. So stay together, stay aligned, and keep everyone moving as quickly as possible toward those results. And the reason I keep mentioning acceleration and pace is that you could lose the business value of doing something if it takes you too long to do it. But part of the reason things take so long to do is because we're trying to do too many things and people aren't clear why they're doing what they're doing. So let's keep everybody engaged through the process from strategy definition through to execution and continuing to measure after The deliverable product service, the output was created to ensure that it actually achieves those outcomes. How do we do? Did we get the results we wanted? If not, why not? These are important questions that people aren't asking. And so they don't actually know if the work they were doing was worth it in the first place. So I like to say, know your worth it factor right from the beginning and make sure that you keep everyone aligned with that throughout the entire process. So, that's, I think, why we have so many problems in this strategy-to-execution gap space and why, if it was, if people were able to fix it, there wouldn't still be so many books being written about it, frankly. And I think it's because we have to fundamentally rethink the entire operating model. And instead of reinforcing all of these bad habits that create this gap, let's actually redefine how we define and deliver on the strategy to make sure it's achieving those results.

Al ElliottAs a psychologist, I've been trained to bake in evaluation from day one, and it sounds like that's what you're talking about there, is that evaluation. And it's something that I can often be a hard sell to my clients to try and, you know, get them invest that effort and time upfront, throughout, and after. I mean, it's from a very commercial perspective, and the work you've done with big organizations, medium and small, what do you feel is the main benefit of an evaluation process and actually starting and being mindful of that process from day one?

Laura BarnardWell, you have to get clear on what you're trying to do and what's preventing you from doing that, right? So we have a whole diagnostic or assessment process, and it's in stage 2 of our Impact Engine system operating model, is all about making sure that you understand what is preventing you from getting to the outcomes you're trying to achieve, right? And a lot of people don't know, right? Not everybody can be an expert in everything. You can have some fabulous experts in your senior leadership of your organization. Many of them are subject matter experts in their area of expertise, whether it's IT or finance or marketing or sales. They don't necessarily know what is getting in the way of the success they're looking for. So if you can do this evaluation that we teach in the Impact Engine book and that we do with our clients. If you can do that work to engage with people, and this is a really important thing that I think that a lot of people don't understand, is they kind of go into an organization and they say, oh, I know the medicine you need to take. Let me go solve your problems for you. First of all, nobody's going to be on board with that. Second of all, you are making a lot of assumptions. So even if you're right, you're wrong because you didn't bring people with you through the change process. So a really important part of our diagnostic and assessment process that is not standard practice in the industry, is learning more about the challenges and the relationships and the dynamics that are happening in the culture, how people like to go through the change process. Like, where are they? Like, what's going on? Let's really learn what matters to them and how the organization operates so we don't break what's working well, but also so that we understand how to properly implement change. Yeah. With and through the organization, instead of them feeling like it's being done to them. So no matter what that change is, there's a whole different way to to build a solution set and implement that solution set in a way that's making it not just the idea of the people that are a part of the process or that need to experience the change, but they're begging for it. Right? Like that's a big important. One of the things that we do in our assessment process is we flip the switch and the entire dialogue around, these are the things you need to do versus tell me what is keeping you up at night. What are the pains you're experiencing? People aren't necessarily experts in the solutions that are needed to solve their pain points, but they are experts in their pain. They live it and breathe it every day. So if you can really get to what that pain is and help them understand that there's a path to taking that pain away and making their lives easier, then they're going to be much more likely to come on board. So in our space, there's this acronym, WIFM. We call it WIFM, what's in it for me? And our jobs are to find that WIFM, maybe even the personal and professional WIFM, if you will, for everybody, every stakeholder that we're gauging in the process. Because when you can change the entire conversation to be about solving the things that they care about, they're, they're begging you to help them, as opposed to, ah, I don't know what you're doing, but I don't want any part of that new tool you're putting in place or this new process you're trying to make me follow. It's not about, it's the whole conversation changes. And it's not about doing change to people, but doing it with them in a way that has, creates a pull for your services or the changes you're trying to drive instead of a push. Yeah.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)That's it. Everything you wanted to know about projects, but were afraid to ask. Laura's book is great. It's called The Impact Engine, and it's essential reading for anyone who wants to plan, manage, or deliver any kind of project. Before we go, let's hear Laura's one biggest takeaway for leaders and business owners— that's you— who want to deliver successful projects.

Laura BarnardOh, there's so many. And I guess that's why I finally wrote a book, right? It was because I just really wanted— and we do, we have a podcast, Podcast. We have so many free resources and support to help people that are going on this journey because the introduction to my book says, "I wish I had me when I was you," and the reason for that is that there are so many things that people mistakes they make, and I have all the battle scars to prove I made all those mistakes myself because when I started doing this work, I had no idea what I was doing. But the typical advice that I was following that. I could find through the books and the classes and the industry experts with their enormous books that with the tiny little font, there was all the things I should be doing. What I learned was that it really wasn't about any of that at all. It was really about doing what made sense and putting that common sense into common practice, but doing it in a way that really brings people with you through the change process. And I want to leave your listeners with one really important thing to to rethink. People are not resistant to change. They are resistant to having change done to them. And so, the very core fundamentals of the Impact Engine system and why it works so well with organizations of all shapes and sizes is that there is a thread of organizational change management running throughout the entire framework. We have people rethink the entire strategy to execution gap and understand why they're reinforcing that in the first place and how to undo all of that with a new operating model that puts the people and the mindset shifts that you must make at the very center of changing how your organization delivers the strategy. So I would say rethink all of what you think you know and the assumptions that you've put in place about what this kind of work is about and do what makes sense, but do it with the people that you need to come on that journey with you. And when you do, you'll accelerate strategy delivery. Achieve a much higher return on investment than you ever expected possible. So, um, and reach out if you need help because we got all kinds of goodies that we can share with people if they need, if they need support.

Al ElliottWhat a woman and what an episode. Laura has so many free resources and great articles, so here's where to find out more about her.

Laura BarnardI am all over LinkedIn. I spend a lot of time there, and we have articles and links to the podcast and all kinds kinds of other resources. And they can also go to pmostrategies.com, and, and you will find all kinds of resources and freebies and webinars and ebooks, and of course tons and tons of blog posts and all kinds of things to support people no matter where they are on their impact journey.

Al ElliottThat is all for today. A quick reminder, if you like to hear stories of how organizations big and small have built amazing workplace cultures, then every single Thursday We bring you an amazing guest with a great story, just like today.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)And if you like to keep up to date with the latest news and love a good workplace surgery segment, then tune in every single Tuesday where we bring you exactly that, plus our hot takes with our special guests. You're gonna like next week's. Lee, I think we should say goodbye because you're still ill, aren't you, love?

Al ElliottYou say still ill, people are going to get an insight into kind of our recording schedule and how it all works. Um, my cold hasn't lasted, um, this long. Um, and you'll see from the next episode as well, honestly hasn't even lasted that long. Um, but yeah, for right now I am gonna go and sit under a blanket with a lemon sip.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)See you soon. And just a quick reminder, if you want to support the show, you know how to do it. Just subscribe and tell other people to subscribe. That's what's really, really— we want, uh, and we'll continue bringing you the best content we possibly can. Um, and hopefully won't be next week because as Leanne's pointed out, and so peek behind the curtain, we're recording 3 episodes on the bounce because we are in the UK again for Leanne's birthday, significant birthday. But we will— no, but we will see you the following week, and hopefully Leanne will be in a different dress and she'll also be all back to normal.

Al ElliottMad if I'm not.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Bye-bye.

Al ElliottBye. Hello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work. Oh my God, my brain's just gone empty.

midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Find out why projects fail, why it's so hard to get your idea in, um, many free resources and great articles.