Episode 245 · 30 October 2025 · 56:26
How to dress for success: The surprising psychology of workwear, with Style Coach, Angela Foster
Featuring Angela Foster
How to dress for success: The surprising psychology of workwear, with Style Coach, Angela Foster
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Introducing Angela Foster and the psychology of workwear
Enclothed cognition: how clothes affect your own performance
interview#enclothed-cognition#clothing#performance#psychology
The 7-11 rule: first impressions and leadership perception
Navigating modern dress codes and casual dress
interview#dress-codes#casual-dress#workplace-culture#fashion
Where to start if you've never thought about style
Dressing for your body shape: the SPARK method step one
Crafting a signature look and avoiding distraction
interview#signature-look#distraction#personal-style#workplace
The psychology of video call style and backgrounds
How dress affects pay and practical dress code advice
interview#dress#pay#salary#dress-code
Building a versatile wardrobe and the one thing to do today
interview#wardrobe#versatility#capsule-wardrobe#actionable-advice
Show notes
How to Dress for Success: The Surprising Psychology of Workwear — with Angela Foster
Guest: Angela Foster — Style Coach with over 20 years of executive experience in the fashion and beauty industry, founder of the SPARK method.
What we wear to work says more about us than we might think — and it shapes how others see us in seconds.
Angela joins Al and Leanne (in a brilliant archive interview) to unpack the psychology of workwear, from the science of enclothed cognition to the "7-11 rule" — the idea that strangers make 11 decisions about us in just 7 seconds of meeting.
They dig into how professional attire influences leadership perceptions, how to craft a signature look that's unforgettable (without becoming a distraction), why the first step to a better wardrobe is not shopping, and how employers can write dress codes that are fair, clear, and aligned with organisational values.
Top 3 Takeaways
First impressions are formed in seconds — dress accordingly. The "7-11 rule" means strangers make 11 decisions about you in 7 seconds. Your attire is doing work before you even open your mouth.
Start with strategy, not shopping. The single best thing you can do today is not buy another item of clothing. Understand your body shape, your goals, and your signature before you spend a penny.
It's not about designer labels. Some brands matter to some people, and that's fine — but a thoughtful, well-fitting wardrobe at any price point beats expensive clothes worn without intention.
More From Angela Foster
- Free Gift: Take Angela's Body Shape Quiz to discover the styles and silhouettes that suit you best — visit AngelaFoster.co/Leanne to get started
- Website: Angela Style Coach
- LinkedIn: Angela Foster
- Instagram: @AngelaStyleCoach
Connect With Us
Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
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Leanne ElliottHello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture. We are brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne, I'm a Chartered Occupational Psychologist.
Al ElliottMy name is Al, I'm a business owner.
Leanne ElliottAnd we are here to help you simplify the science of work.
Al ElliottWelcome, welcome. So this week, Leanne and I are on holiday. So we went through the archives and we found an interview that has not been run in full, has it, Leanne?
Leanne ElliottIt hasn't. This is a brilliant interview that we did, oh, back in 2023 almost, I think, with Angela Foster, the petite style coach. She is here to help us understand what to wear to work, why it matters, why we should care, and the psychology of it all. I'll be honest, when I went into this conversation, I was slightly skeptical. I came out of it totally believing in everything Angela said, and she's also the most awesome person. Follow her on LinkedIn. She's also got loads of really cool free stuff on her website, like petite closet audits, a body shape quiz. She's really down to earth, makes it all really accessible, and actually makes very excellent, excellent points about how what we, what we wear to work does affect our confidence, our mood, how we show up, and even shared some incredible data around how it can impact our performance.
Al ElliottYeah, well, there you go. So after this very short break, we're going to go and join Leanne and Angela, and, uh, we will see you back on Tuesday for the regular schedule, the This Week in Work. And then the, uh, following Thursday, we've got another interview with someone I think you're really gonna like. So we'll see you in a second. The dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot Because why? HubSpot connects it all. Every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Al ElliottNice. Check out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
Leanne ElliottAngela, welcome to Truth, Lies and Work. I've really been looking forward to this conversation. As a petite woman myself, I think I am 5'3. I know you'll tell me. Before we do that, tell us, introduce yourself to our audience. Tell us who you are, what you do, and what you're famous for.
Angela FosterWell, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I can't imagine you are looking forward to this any more than I am because I'm a huge fan. I'm Angela Foster. I am a style coach for petite executives. C-suites and entrepreneurial women.
Leanne ElliottCan I ask, what is the definition of petite?
Angela FosterUm, depending upon who you ask, it's either 5'4 or 5'3 and under, which is 44% of the world population. While it's easy for us to feel like we're a small segment that designers and brands don't pay attention to, we're a pretty mighty bunch.
Leanne ElliottI'm 5'3 and 3/4, so I can push 5'4 if I want to, I guess. But, but I'll, I'll take, take some little like light mick out of me all the time for being so small. I need step to reach the cupboards and things like that. But there's 44%. We should gather, create some kind of movement.
Angela FosterYes, that's exactly right. I'm— all of my new people, I'm like, welcome to the revolution. We're going to change the world. Yes, absolutely.
Leanne ElliottAbsolutely.
Angela FosterNow, how tall is Al?
Leanne ElliottUm, he's 5'11.
Angela FosterOkay.
Leanne ElliottOkay. Is that just shy of 6 foot? Is that— yeah.
Angela FosterYes. Yes.
Al ElliottWhy?
Angela FosterOh no, I was just curious.
Leanne ElliottOh, really?
Angela FosterHe sounds— yes, his voice sounds tall.
Leanne ElliottAh, did you expect him to be 4 foot?
Angela FosterNo, no, no, no. That's, I think that's, I think that's actually a little bit above average for men. I don't, I don't do much with men. So, but I feel like I read that somewhere that yes.
Leanne ElliottOh, there you go. And now the world knows. No one ever knows how tall we are. They always see us sat down. So yeah, exactly. Exactly. Coming out already. Oh, Angela, I want to, I want to get straight into it in terms of fashion. Um, it's one of those things that I think as a, as a woman, I think about, I can't, say I'm like a fashionista in any way, but I'm conscious of the clothes I wear and how I present myself, particularly in, in professional situations. I mean, from your experience with clients, how does what we wear influence our mood and our confidence at work?
Angela FosterOh my gosh, I'm so glad that you asked this. There was actually a study done, and I think it was at Northwestern University, and it was probably like 2010, 2012, something like that. And that's exactly what they studied was the effect of our clothes on our mood, our performance, and all of that. And it came out that people who had a lab coat on and were told that it was a doctor's lab coat had improved mental ability, improved creativity, improved performance. They did better on mind games and like, you know, like mind bender games, that type of thing. So it really affects a lot on not only our performance, but then also, especially when it comes to women, our confidence. Because we've all seen, you know, we've all been in business situations where 2 women walk in the room and one of them is like oozing over with confidence and you're attracted to her. You want to get, you know, like introduce yourself, get to know her, find out what she does and all of that. And then somebody else who has less confidence and kind of like blends into the background, doesn't put herself out there and all of that. So, It can be in, you know, a social situation, but you also want to think about like, what does that look like in the work situation? And if you're the one that doesn't feel confident to put yourself out there, then I mean, that's obviously going to have ramifications on, you know, promotion abilities and getting different jobs and that type of thing.
Leanne ElliottHas there been anything, or again, from your experience, how, if that's how clothing impacts our own, our own mood, our own behaviors, our own general mental ability, by the sound of it, which is Really cool. Um, I mean, can clothing also impact how people see us, maybe first impressions in the workplace?
Angela FosterSo, I call it the 7-11 rule. What it is, is that strangers make 11 decisions about us in 7 seconds of meeting us. So, when it comes to, um, you know, like, meeting with a new salesperson, meeting with, uh, you know, a new podcast host, meeting with anybody, like, whether we realize it or not, you made 11 decisions about me and whether I was going to be any fun, whether I was competent, whether it was like going to be a great interview or not a great interview before I even said, hey, Leanne, I'm Angela. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's how quick it happens and that's how powerful it is. So, it has so many ramifications besides just what other people think about us, but just how we show up.
Leanne ElliottDoes it impact our dynamics as a team, the perception, leadership's perception of us? Like, how far does that go beyond that first impression?
Angela FosterSo, and I can't remember who said it, I think it might've been Marcus Buckingham, but it's something that just, for whatever reason, it just, you know, those things that you hear that just really burn themselves in your brain and you're like, oh my gosh. One of the things that team members like to know about their leaders is that they're consistent versus being friendly and empathetic and all of that. They like a consistent leader that they know what to expect from them. And When you are the leader and you're setting the bar for, this is how my team shows up, this is how we come to work, this is how we present ourselves in front of clients, this is, you know, all of that, that consistency is key, not only in how we look, but in how we treat our teams and that type of thing. So, when we wanna be great leaders, knowing, like, setting the expectation, living up to that expectation is incredibly important. And I do a workshop that's talking about, like, dressing your brand and that type of thing for mostly for managers and team leaders who want to make sure their team feels like they're cohesive and, you know, they're showing up the way that the team leader wants them to. And that whole, that whole thing of like, this is, this is the message that we're sending to everybody who meets us is incredibly important, especially in higher value situations. You know, you might buy, I don't know, you know, a pair of, a pair of pants from somebody who doesn't look amazing, but you're not going to spend $100,000 with somebody who looks awful and a train wreck.
Al ElliottRight.
Angela FosterI mean, but it's the truth, right? Like when there's a lot of money on the line, the way somebody shows up is incredibly important.
Leanne ElliottAnd can it go the other way? Because I'm thinking, you know, of like that, that kind of very put together, a bit slimy salesperson who's so suited and booted to the point of it's a bit off-putting. Can it swing the other way?
Angela FosterI love that. No, I absolutely love that. And I think that's one of the things with I mean, and it started way before the pandemic, do you know what I mean? Like people were getting more relaxed, not only in their appearance at home, but also absolutely at their appearance at work. So then we went through this like whole, you know, like work from home and then it was a hybrid and all of that. So that has really changed the way people show up. And I think that's one of the things that's making it so tough, especially for women, because guys have so much, so many fewer options when it comes to clothes and all of that. But for women, we have a, I mean, we have a lot of options, right? Like suits or pants, you know, like the whole thing. I think that's one of the things that where it used to be very defined, we'd have our weekend wear and we'd have our work clothes. And those were, it was very clear. Like, I don't know about you, but I had 2 sections in my closet. And if it was Monday through Friday, I knew exactly what I was going to grab. If it was the weekend, I went to the other side. That's one of the things that's making it so challenging for women right now, right? Because you have, you don't just have those 2 buckets anymore. You have the work from home bucket where I'm going to be on video, or you have the casual Friday, which has turned into super duper casual Friday. And then you have those moments where you have to like give a presentation or, you know, show up with the management team in the office and all of that. So it just makes it so much more difficult because there's so many more choices.
Leanne ElliottI'm curious because you always hear, don't you, about stories about how fashion shapes culture, youth shapes fashion, which shapes culture. It's all intertwined, you know. Um, ecosystem. Have we seen any trends? The one that's springing to mind is, you know how after or during World War II or during periods of conflict, women will tend to gravitate towards brighter colors or bright lipstick. Um, have we seen any trends like that during post-pandemic?
Angela FosterWell, a couple, a couple of thoughts pop to mind. The first one is, um, there's, when it gets to be super casual, Right? There's that, I'm going to stay super casual. I don't care what happens right now though. It feels like women are getting tired of that. Like they're tired of the yoga pants. They're tired of the shapeless clothes and all of that. And there's really been, at least with my clients, there's been a big resurgence for wanting to, you know, have fun with clothes again. You know what I mean? And yes, to your point about the sleazy salesman, car salesman, it looks different than it does. than it used to, right? You know, there's still that I'm not going to corset myself into something super uncomfortable. Like, I still appreciate that comfort, but I want to step it up a little bit. And I want to let people know that I did put an effort into the way that I look and the way I show up. Because there's also that thing where, you know, if you're from the customer standpoint and you see somebody and you don't feel like they put a lot of effort into it, there is a subliminal message that says, well, if they're not going to put effort into how they showed up to meet me, How much effort are they going to put into my project, my job, my, you know, like whatever I'm hiring them to do? So there's that, that we always have to keep in mind.
Leanne ElliottIf somebody is listening much like me now and going, huh, I've never really thought about this before. And I probably need to think about what I wear as the brand that I'm presenting to the world. Where do I start with that?
Angela FosterI love that. I love that. And it is, it can be really overwhelming, right? There was something I read somewhere like The average woman has 163 things in her closet. So the first thing is, is that a lack of clothes, despite the fact that one of the things I hear all the time is I have nothing to wear, despite that, we have too much to wear. You know what I mean? And sometimes it's, you walk in there, you walk into your closet and it's so overwhelming that you don't even know where to start. So one of the things, and this is, this is a trend, I said, I can't think of anything. when you said that, but this is a trend that I have noticed. Women really are focusing on less, but better quality, better choices, better, um, you know, like more flattering to their specific body shape and that type of thing. I don't feel like there's the, I want to buy everything type of mentality right now. It really is more of a, I want it to be right type of thing. But in answer to your question, where do you start? This is such a great question, and you can take it from a couple different standpoints. So, if you're looking at, this is my personal brand, this is how I'm showing up to work, what is it that you want everybody else, what you want their perception to be of you? And with my clients, I encourage them to come up with 3 adjectives, and usually they'll come up with things like, oh, I wanna look trustworthy, or I wanna look professional, or whatever. But They don't, those words don't really say anything, right? Like you wanna dig a little bit deeper into that. If you work in the art department, you're gonna have a much more creative vibe than somebody who works in finance or in accounting or that type of thing. So you really wanna dig deeper into those words. And then what we do is we take those words and we translate that into a visual style. So whether that looks like tailored pants and a feminine blouse, or whether that looks like a suit because that's You know, that's the requirement of where you're at, but really think about if somebody said, Leanne, what do you think about Leanne? And I said 3 things, what would those 3 words, what would you want those 3 words to be? What my clients do is they create a Pinterest board and they usually keep it secret because it's not something that they want, you know, it's just between, like, we share it back and forth. They create a Pinterest board for each of those words. And then they start pinning things to each of the boards that mean that. So if it's going to be like, I want it to be tailored and minimalist, or I want it to be colorful and artsy, or whatever the words happen to be. They pin a few things to that board. I encourage them to start with 5. That is usually enough for the Pinterest algorithm to pick up on what they're doing. And then all of a sudden you're flooded with more, more ideas, more graphics, more images along those lines. And then when they're done, they usually have between, oh, 25 to 35 of those images pinned to each of those words, you would be amazed. It happens every time, and I'm still amazed when we go through their board together, the commonality of their images. It just, it like pops out at you and you're like, oh, look at this. This is like, you know, that you like cropped blazers. Okay. I mean, and because almost every image has a cropped blazer in it. So even those women who think, oh, I don't have a style, I don't really know what it is, they really do. They just haven't put it into words or to pictures yet. But once we look at those boards, we're like, oh my gosh, look at this. So you have like some very definitive things about what you want your personal style to be. And then, I mean, they honestly, they do all the work. I mean, I lead them in the right direction, but the clients do all the work. And then shopping becomes super easy because we know what do you have? What do you not have? What, you know, what gaps do we need to fill in? Easy peasy.
Leanne ElliottDo your clients tend to come to you at a particular age? The reason I ask, I'm about to turn 40 in about a month's time. And I'm concerned as I get older of dressing appropriately, but not like an, like an old person, because I don't feel old, but at the same time, I feel as maybe a, is there a point where I need to start elevating my style perhaps? Is that a thing or is it really just for every individual?
Angela FosterWow. There was so much goodness there. I don't want to forget a thing. Okay. So is there a time where clients usually come to me? 100%. It's usually when, if they're entrepreneurs, it's usually when they're ready to uplevel their business. They're going to have more visibility opportunities. They're going to have more speaking engagements. They just wrote a book, that type of thing. So visibility is a deal and they want to feel confident in whatever that looks like. The other thing is, is usually when there's big life changes. I just had a baby and now I don't recognize my body and I don't know how to dress for it anymore. I'm like going through menopause and I don't know what is going on with my body and nothing fits and all of that. So normally it's like one of those things that triggers it. Can also, I've had several, several clients who like get a promotion to a director or a C-suite position, and they feel like they need to level up their image because they're leading a bigger, more important team now. So, it's usually something along those lines. And really, you know, you think about it, and I don't know about you, but nobody ever taught me how to shop. You know, My mom and I would go shopping, but I mean, she was like shooting in the dark as much as I was. Like, we were just picking out things, trying things on. Sometimes it was successful, sometimes it wasn't. We had a whole bunch of, you know, like clothes in the closet, but not necessarily like pulled together outfits. Well, and it's not her fault. I totally don't blame her. When she listens, I don't want her to think I'm blaming, but nobody ever teaches us how to get dressed for our body shape. And then as women, your body's gonna change. So then you need to know what to do when that happens. So you don't freak out and start blaming yourself or blaming your body and, and all of that. So there's that. Then you made a comment about you're going to turn 40. Happy early birthday, by the way. And, um, and then age appropriate. So one of the things that helps women with the whole age appropriate thing, and you look at women now and I'm 52 and I feel like when I was 20, I heard 52 and I was like, oh my God, you might as well just like pack it in. You're done. Right. But 50 looks a lot different today. I think I'm probably biased, but 50 looks a lot different today than it did 30 years ago. So the whole like age appropriate thing, I don't know. I have a kind of a love-hate relationship with it. We've all seen those girls who are like, we don't know what age appropriate is, but we know that's not it. Right? Like, we're like, oh gosh. But I think when you learn how to dress for the body that you have today, I mean, like, my boobs are not where they were at when I was 20, right? So obviously, like, things I wear on top are not going to be as revealing or as tight and all of that as it was 30 years ago. But when you dress for the body you have, then it kind of takes care of the whole age-appropriate thing.
Leanne ElliottAs you say, you said dress for the body you have. And I wonder if a lot of— and myself included, Spend a lot of time planning to buy the clothes for the body we're going to have in 6 months' time. I mean, if anyone's listening going, I like the sound of that, how do I— is there anything I can do to understand my body, my shape, and understand where to start shopping?
Angela FosterOh my gosh. Yes, absolutely. So the first exercise, I have a 5-step program that I take all my new clients through. The first one is body shape, because that's where it all starts. I mean, it doesn't matter if you know what colors look great on you, or you know what your favorite accessories are. If you don't know how to dress for your body shape, we have to I'm gonna stop right there. When I first started style coaching, I heard, you know, and I would start with the whole body shape conversation. I heard a lot of, I'm an apple and my shoulders are too broad and my boobs are too big, or I'm a pear and my butt's too big and my stomach's too big and my hips are too wide. And it was always like, this is what I am and this is why it's bad. And I spent all my effort trying to hide what's bad.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Angela FosterAnd I was like, oh my God, this is totally depressing. So we flipped the script a little bit. Well, probably a lot. And instead what we do is, so I say to you, what is your very favorite feature? What do you love most about your figure?
Leanne ElliottDo you want me to answer?
Angela FosterI do.
Leanne ElliottMy boobs.
Angela FosterFabulous. Fabulous. Yes. That's amazing. No, no, no, no. But you know what I think is funny? And you're not the only one that does that. Is anytime somebody says my boobs are my favorite feature, they whisper it. I'm like, girl, scream it, scream it. Now I know that there's gonna be listeners who are like, oh my gosh, there's no way I am not going to wear a bunch of like hoochie mama tops showing off a bunch of cleavage. And that's not what it's about. I mean, obviously I work with professional women. There's not a ton of cleavage going on, right? But there are subtle ways that you can enhance your boobs and still create that balanced body shape. that we're going for. So after you pick your favorite feature, we decide how are we going to accentuate it? Is it gonna be layered necklaces? Is it going to be a gentle V-neck? Is it gonna be buttoned up tops? Whatever that is, whatever makes sense with your lifestyle, your personal style, what your aspirations are and all of that. Then we look at the, and the rest of your body shape. And the idea is, I mean, it's really easy.
Al ElliottYeah.
Angela FosterThe idea is just to create the illusion of balance. You know how we've all seen those makeup tutorials on YouTube where some chick takes like contour and highlight, she doesn't have any cheekbones, and then all of a sudden magically with like, she has like the most dramatic, like exotic cheekbones ever. That's all we're doing with clothes. We're just using clothes as a tool to create the illusion of a balanced body shape. Some women have it naturally, some women don't. It's fine. If you have, you know, like delicate shoulders and a perky bust, and then, you know, like a fuller bum and thigh area, then we're going to add volume on top. When I look at you from head to toe, I'm gonna say you're balanced or vice versa.
Leanne ElliottOkay. And is that balance that, I guess, that hourglass figure? Is that what we mean by balance?
Angela FosterYes. And it doesn't even mean It doesn't necessarily mean hourglass from the standpoint of it doesn't have to be a super defined waist or anything like that. Do you know what I mean? What the most pleasing appearance is just when it looks like everything is working together. Now, there are absolutely examples, Kim Kardashian being one of them, who, you know, doesn't care, you know, like what the body shape is. She's going to accentuate what she wants to accentuate. And that's amazing for women. who are so beautifully confident. Not everybody is that incredibly confident. It's almost like, you know how when you were learning how to drive and they were saying like, put your hands at 9 and 3, 10 and 2, I can't even remember what it was. That's how much I paid attention. But it gave you some parameters to start with. Like, don't follow the car ahead of you too close. Make sure you give yourself 5 seconds to stop at a stop sign, whatever the situation is. It's kind of like that when you're learning how to dress for your body shape. You have some parameters, and then once you're super confident with that, you can break all the rules that you want to.
Leanne ElliottI always like to play devil's avocado when, when chatting to a guest or covering things on the, on the podcast. And it's that I can, I can hear some voices from women in my head going, what are you talking about? It doesn't matter what you wear. It doesn't matter what you look like. Hourglass figures, what rubbish. It's all about confidence. And you know what, if there's anyone out there listening going, this is making me feel uncomfortable. This feels like we're objectifying women's bodies in the workplace. What do you say to that?
Angela FosterI love that. And I would love to say that everybody you meet is such an elevated— in such an elevated mental state that they're not judging us, but we know that they're 100% judging us. It doesn't matter. They're not trying to be mean. They're not trying to come up with reasons to hate us or think, you know what, they're not. It's just human nature. And At this point, I only can accomplish so many things and changing human nature at this point in my life is probably not one of them. So, we can absolutely say it's not fair. You should appreciate me because of my big fat brain and how brilliant I am and all of that. And that's amazing. And if you want to, that's great. When you're talking about growing your career or building your business and all of that, we have to deal with reality. And at this point in our evolution, that's reality.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Angela FosterSo yes. And to your point, the other thing, objectifying. So, I mean, I guess you could look at it like when you feel confident in your outfit and you're accentuating your favorite feature, are you objectifying yourself? I mean, I've never thought about it like that before, but I do know how I show up when I love my outfit. And I also know how I show up when my makeup's a mess, my hair's, well, frizzy and all of that. And it's 2 different people.
Al ElliottYeah.
Angela FosterDo you know what I mean? Like, it's distracting when I don't feel good. And I don't think I'm the only one that's like that.
Leanne ElliottDid you know that the UK's number one management podcast— that's us, by the way— and the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioral science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly And you're not going to say which. Phil, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in threes—
Leanne Elliottthe HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless, seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. We've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok accounts for their fans. TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioural science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff, and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.
Leanne ElliottIt is. It's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that will be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Can vodka make beer taste better?
Al ElliottIt can.
Leanne ElliottAnd are we all just status-seeking monkeys?
Al ElliottI am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back. Definitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this, so come back.
Leanne ElliottI'll cut that out.
Al ElliottKeep that in.
Leanne ElliottSo you've, you've convinced me I need to create some kind of brand style that's going to reflect my Brand, where do I start? I remember working with a client once who I was doing some career coaching with, who, um, who, who was known as like the sneaker guy or like the sneaker leader, um, because he'd have really cool sneakers that he'd wear along with quite a sharp suit or, you know, something like that. Um, just, do I need that? Do I need his thing? Do I need a bit?
Angela FosterSo you're just full of amazing questions. So I love this one. So Say that you are— you said he was a career coach?
Leanne ElliottI was coaching him.
Angela FosterHe was a senior leader.
Leanne ElliottOkay, got it.
Angela FosterSo, okay. So let's just use the career coach example because I like that one. So say you're on LinkedIn and you're like, you kind of consider it a career coach, but you haven't made the decision yet. You don't, blah, blah, blah, you know, all of that. So you're scrolling through LinkedIn and you see a post from Leanne. Oh, she's a career coach. You won't remember, like, I won't remember your name. And then I see another career coach and another career, and you know how they're like, all of a sudden their career coaches are coming out of the walls. Then I see another post from you and I don't, I probably don't remember your company. I definitely don't remember your name at this point, but you're the girl with the loopy curls that always wears super smart glasses. So, and then I see you the third time and I'm like, oh my God, this girl is everywhere. Every time I turn around, she must be an amazing career coach. So, it takes down that when you have a signature, like his sneakers, your glasses, you know, whatever that signature is, it takes down that know, like, and trust factor from whatever it is today, because they say it's like, now I have to see you 19 times before I remember your name or whatever. It scrunches that down until that know, like, and trust factor is a lot faster. And you have instant credibility because I'm looking at you going, oh my gosh, she has like, And I'm maybe not thinking this consciously, but I'm thinking like, she really has it pinned down. Like, I bet she could help me. So yes, we call it a signature. It's typically an accessory. It can be— I have a client, she wears red lipstick no matter what she's doing, everywhere. Like, red is her jam. Red lipstick, red is, you know, like she has red glasses, she has red earrings, but she's always like, it's a bold red statement. Um, I have another one who wears white blouses all the time. Like that's her thing. She's in a very colorful industry. So that really makes her stand out when everybody else is trying to be super bright and loud and all that.
Leanne ElliottSo what signature would you recommend for a podcaster who spent most of her time behind a microphone and is only now starting to show her face to the world?
Angela FosterWell, congratulations. You're just like what we were talking about, like stepping up the visibility. Yes, that is. And when we started that whole like Zoom work from home thing, that definitely became a thing. Right? Because we had to keep the party on top because otherwise, like I used to wear like the craziest, highest heeled platform shoes all the time. Well, then nobody can see them. So what difference does it make? Like that, what a wasted effort. So you definitely want to keep it like from the boobs up, you know, to the top. You could do anything you could do. I do love the smart glasses idea because you are Brainiac. So I like how that ties into like your brand and your style and all of that. You could also do fun earrings. You could do something different with your hair, like wear it in a very specific style consistently. So it becomes like your thing. Um, it is, it is tougher though when it's like from here. I can see your necklace a little bit. If you moved your microphone a little bit, you could also do some fun necklaces.
Leanne ElliottLike statement. I said, yeah.
Angela FosterYes. You could also do something fun with your headphones.
Leanne ElliottAh, like, um, like people do with bags, like when they, they— what's it called when you—
Angela FosterDon't bejewel them.
Leanne ElliottNo, they have like little charms. Or is that weird?
Angela FosterMaybe a little bit. I was thinking more of a color, but yeah.
Leanne ElliottOkay. Yep, yep, yep. See?
Angela FosterYeah. Oh, bedazzle. I, I knew when I said bejewel, I'm like, that's not right. Bedazzle.
Leanne ElliottDon't—
Angela Fosteryeah, no, don't do that.
Leanne ElliottBut Oh, I see. So I like, oh, that's the girl with the yellow headphones kind of thing.
Angela FosterYes, exactly. Exactly. I love it.
Leanne ElliottAnd with that in mind, where does the line go between having like a signature and just becoming a distraction?
Angela FosterOh, right. Oh, that is such a great question. So, well, number one, if it's distracting to you, it's going to be distracting to everybody else, right? Because you and I do so much work, you know, via video and Zoom and that type of thing. Anything that is too loud, you fiddle with it. That's one of the reasons I started wearing my hair up all the time. My VA said, if you do one more video where you're flicking your hair around, but it was always in my face. So I was like, I can't help it. It's just always in my face. So hence the, so now I always have it pulled back so I don't mess with it. So in answer to your question, if it, if it bothers you, it's going to bother everybody watching. Um, but yeah, nothing that makes too much noise. Or is like you're fiddling with it. I think those are the 2 big things. And don't forget, you always have your backdrop to help reinforce whatever you're doing.
Leanne ElliottLet's talk about that, because when, before we started recording, I said, I love your backdrop. Is that, I mean, I know Al would definitely say this is a thing because he obsesses over our backdrop and I kind of get it, but from, from an expert in style, in design, how much impact does a background have on On a personal brand?
Angela FosterYes. So I think I personally feel like it has a ton. When we first started the whole Zoom thing, I looked like I was in prison. Like I had, there was nothing. No, I mean, like legit, people were like, what, where are you at? I'm like, I'm in my office. Why? They're like, it's, you look like you're in prison. So you want, there's that happy medium, right? You want it to reinforce your brand while not being distracting. You know, you see those people and they're usually like news guests on news programs. And they, I don't know if they just want you to think they're super duper smart, but they're sitting in front of floor-to-ceiling bookshelves with books crammed on them. And I find it so distracting. I'm like, why are those books crooked? Why don't they have them like, you know, alphabetically? Like, it's so distracting. That could just be me and my OCD, but. Anyways, you want it to have that happy medium between like not like reinforcing what your brand is and the colors and all of that while not distracting from the message that you're sending. And I think it's best to start with a blank wall like I did and then just gradually add to it because all of a sudden it can be too much, right? So yes, but yeah, no, I think background is incredibly important. I have a client, she's an interior decorator and she has the most gorgeous backdrop I've ever seen in my life and it's completely under understated, but you can just tell she has that beautiful design eye because of the way she has a console table behind her. And she just has, I think, maybe like 3 vases and then like one knickknacky thing. But the way it's set up, like the first time I met her, I was like, that's gorgeous. I can tell that you really understand what you're doing. Wasn't because it was a lot, but it was because it was so well done and reinforcing what she did for a living.
Leanne ElliottAnd I have so much admiration for people who have the, as you do, have the eye for that. that level of style. And, and it just— when it comes together, it just looks so nice. And as you say, it breeds trust and confidence in, in somebody else's ability, particularly something like interior design when it's tied, literally tied to the— what they do. It's a live example, isn't it, of what they're, what they're going to do?
Angela FosterYes, absolutely. If she'd peeling wallpaper on the back, I don't know that I would have trusted her from the beginning so much.
Leanne ElliottI want to talk about, um, different demographics. We focused on, on, on women So far. I mean, how do— and I know you work primarily with women, but how do men experience workplace dress and the expectations attached to that? Is it different?
Angela FosterIt is a little bit. In fact, there was a study that was done, and I think it was from one of those like career website things. But it said that women who were perceived as being well-dressed and put together Made 12% more money than their counterparts who were not perceived the same way. For men, and this is what I thought was surprising, in answer to your question, what I thought was surprising for men, it was even worse. It was like the men who were perceived as put together were, they make 15 to 17% more money. So, we talk about the pay inequality and all of that, but if you're a guy, I would be worried about pay inequality. Like, is that guy, because he has like his shirt is Does, is he making 17% more than me? Do you know what I mean? Like, that would be, I would have a question about that. But the thing about it was, is it wasn't like the, the people that they did that, that were super stylish and always looked like, you know, like glamorous, you know, Instagram influencers. It wasn't like that at all. It was really very simple. Like, their clothes fit well, they were tailored, um, their hair was clean. For women, they had a minimal amount of makeup on. It wasn't like they were asking us to jump through hoops for this, right? It was actually very easy to do.
Al ElliottYeah.
Angela FosterSo, I mean, and for guys, I think the tailoring and the pressing are even more important because they do have so many fewer options than we do. So if they come in with a wrinkled shirt and grubby jeans, like, you're like, really? Come on now. You couldn't throw it in the dryer first?
Leanne ElliottI can't believe that, really, that pay difference just in terms of how you— wow.
Angela FosterI know. There is another fun thing, and this kind of goes back to the signature, but then it also talks about guys too. And there was a— it always makes me think of Mark Zuckerberg when I talk about, but it's called the red sneaker effect. And there was 2 different situations and I'm gonna probably smush 'em into one big situation, but there were like 10 or 12 guys and they were at a black tie event and they were clearly a group, but one of the guys had a red bow tie on instead of the black bow tie that everybody else in his group had on. Every— and then they asked a panel of people, who's the guy that's in charge? Who's the boss, the owner, whatever? And they all said universally the guy with the red bow tie on. So, it goes back to when you— it doesn't have to be huge, like the signature, like we were talking about, it doesn't have to be huge. It can be something very subtle. And then there was some other guy who did actually wear red sneakers. And you know what I mean? And it proved the same point that when you do just something slightly different, the perception of your standing in a group or in a company or whatever is elevated in, in the viewer's mind.
Leanne ElliottIt's, it's so interesting, isn't it? How, how these worlds collide. And I, I wanna ask you about, um, other thing, other conversations that, that we've seen happening over the last few years, thankfully happening. I think in particularly in terms of the Black community, And women in the Black community who, um, there have been lots of debates and discussion around natural hair in the workplace and how is that professional or appropriate. Um, I, I would love your take on that in terms of, um, I guess if you know of any research or in terms of kind of the perception of it, but also in terms of how employers should be approaching, um, differences, gender differences, ethnicity differences in terms of dress policy in the workplace.
Angela FosterSo, I think this is so fascinating for so many reasons. So, because I, you know, I work with business owners and people who have teams and all of that. And one of the things that puts them into an incredibly difficult situation, and when, you know, we're on the initial call and we're talking about like, we're going to teach a, you know, an image workshop for your team, what does that look like, blah, blah, blah. And I say to them, talk to me about your written dress code policy. 2 things happen. Number one, it's from a bajillion years ago, and it hasn't been updated since you had to wear hose and heels. Like, that's how old it is. Or they don't have anything at all written down. So, apparently, I don't know, but employees are just supposed to like magically read your mind as to How you want them to show up, which is really unfair because, you know what I mean? Like, all then, all you have to do is like, look at other people and say, well, I hope I'm getting this right. Well, again, it goes back to, you want your boss to be consistent and you want to know what to expect. Well, that's putting them into an incredibly unfair position. The whole professional thing, I think when it, when we're talking about different ethnicities, different backgrounds, different cultures and all of that, I, there's different feelings on the word professional, right? Some people don't have a thought about it. Some people, it's definitely a trigger. And specifically, you don't look professional. Well, that is not any kind of coaching. And you would know this better than I, being an HR expert, but like, not professional. I'm sorry, you're going to have to be specific with me on that. Like, what does that—
Al ElliottYeah.
Angela Fosterlook like? And the more you can lay it out for your team, well, ideally during the interview process or during the onboarding and all of that, you're doing everybody a favor because nobody, there's not a boss, an owner anywhere on this planet that wants to have a dress code conversation. It's the most uncomfortable. Well, there's probably more uncomfortable, but it's super uncomfortable to have to talk to somebody about What they're wearing, how they show up, and all of that. So, do yourself a favor, do your team a favor, lay it out, be very clear. I feel like the interview, like towards the end of the interview process, is the best place because if there is an issue or, you know, that, that's going to be a problem for your potential new hire, it's only fair to let them know before they say yes.
Leanne ElliottAre there any kind of absolute no-nos in terms of a quote-unquote professional dress code? Anything you're like, that's, that's, that's, that's a no, that's a no, that's That's a no, that's a no.
Angela FosterThere's so many different environments. There's so many different, you know, companies and organizations and all of that. I might, I would love to say anything goes, just depends on the environment, depends on the culture, depends on— I do feel though, that kind of goes back to like the objectifying women thing. As women, we do need to think about who is our customer, whether it's our boss or whether it's an actual customer. And think about if I would wear it to the club, if the skirt's so short, if the neckline is so low that I would wear it to a club or I'd wear it out on a date with my guy, is it appropriate for work? And, and is it really sending the message about you and your work product that you want it to?
Leanne ElliottI suppose it's whether it's, as you said earlier, it's, it's distracting from what you're there to do in terms of task or conversation or interaction. If it's distracting from that, Whether that be too much skin or, or, you know, hair in your face or a ruffled shirt, then it— if it's a distraction, then it's not great.
Angela FosterYes. It's funny because so, and this is actually a career coach and we're connected on LinkedIn and she'll do these videos where, and I know it's like, oh, I just got done at the gym. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so lovely. I haven't seen the inside of a gym in 10 years. But so I know that like, like the sports bra thing is designed to make it look like, like, hey, I'm active, I'm on top of it, blah, blah, blah. The boobage though, I just, you know, and then she brags about how much she charges and I just think it's just hard for me to find that real. Like, I don't want to say it's not true. I just have a hard time believing that people are going to spend that much money when you come like sweaty, hot with Like so much going on right here. So, but that's me and my personal judgment.
Leanne ElliottBut do you— is designer clothes important? Do designer clothes look smarter? Does it give an impression above shopping at the high street?
Angela FosterSome brands and designers can be very important to some women. And if that's important to you, I have zero judgment about that. I do think you get to a point though in your life where you feel confident enough in how you look, what you wear, what your closet looks like, what you, you know, like what you do for a living. And you have a level of happiness that you don't feel that's so necessary. Do my clients buy designer? Sometimes if they like it, I don't feel like they're buying it just because of the brand though. So I think you get to a certain point where it's more important how I feel in something versus, you know, advertising for Louis Vuitton.
Leanne ElliottAnd if I was looking to build quite a versatile wardrobe with, as you say, those signature pieces, because that does seem to be a trend, doesn't it? Whether it, you know, environmental or sustainability, or even just, you know, cost of living, fast fashion seems like it's had its day. Is there any tips you'd give to people who want to, how to pick those key pieces for a wardrobe?
Angela FosterOne of the things that makes it that whole, um, I have nothing to wear thing that really reinforces that is a lack of staples. When, when you don't have enough layering pieces that, oh my gosh, it's cold outside, I need a cardigan or I need a blazer to throw over it. When you don't have enough of those pieces, all of a sudden getting dressed becomes a lot more difficult. So, and that's one of the things, it's not a sexy thing. Like, it's not like, oh really? Like, you think we need like basics and essentials? Well, yes. It's not to say that that has to be your entire closet, but you need to have enough that when it gets cold, when it gets hot and all of that, you can tweak your favorite pieces enough to be weather appropriate, situationally appropriate, and all of that. So that's the first thing. And like I said, it's not sexy. So, and especially for petites, it can be tough to find things that fit that well that, you know, you can have like, uh, button-down blouse in the, you know, all the most important colors. So there's that. The other thing is, is that my clients who come to me that are struggling the most, their closet looks like a rainbow and they have every color on the planet. They love how colorful they are. And I think that's amazing. And it makes mixing and matching and pulling together an outfit that feels cohesive a lot more challenging. Right? Because if you have, you know, unless you're like Rainbow Brite, but do you know what I mean? Because nothing can go. And so if that black pencil skirt has a stain on it, then I'm stuck because, you know, the only other thing I have is an orange pencil skirt. So having those, like, you know, some sort of a cohesive color theme. A good rule of thumb is if you have a color palette, whether it be black, white, and gray, or navy, khaki, and white, or whatever that is. If 80-ish percent of your closet falls into that color palette, you're going to have a lot more mixing and matching opportunities than somebody who has a rainbow closet.
Leanne ElliottSo, and on the flip side of that, if somebody maybe has— I don't, can't imagine who I'm talking about, Angela, but if somebody might have a wardrobe that say is mainly black, white, gray, beige, um, and with the odd, you know, there might be a bit of green in there, olive green from time to time. Should, should I feel pressured to inject color in my wardrobe? Or are you like, you know what, Leanne, you do you if that's your thing? Or am I going to blend into the background? How much do I need to think and worry about this?
Angela FosterNo, you be you. There is not a thing wrong with black, white, gray, and beige. Not a thing. Unless you're bored. Unless you walk into your closet and you're like, this is not fun because I feel like a monochromatic painting. If that, then absolutely let's spark, you know, like let's inject some pops of color. That's such an easy thing to do, but no, don't feel any pressure. Don't feel— this is the other thing. People are like, oh, I feel like I should wear like a floral something. It's spring. Or I feel like I should like inject some prints. Do you like prints? If you do, fantastic. If you don't, who cares? Like, no. And that's one of the things when you become confident in your personal style, it's so much easier to walk away from things. Especially trends that you're like, nope, not gonna work on me. I just flat out don't like it. Not gonna participate. There's plenty of other trends this season that I can take part in if I want to. So no, don't feel pressured unless you're bored. The best compliment I can get is when my clients say to me, it is so much fun getting up and getting dressed in the morning. I have so much fun. That's the best thing they can say to me because I know it's fun because they like what's in their closet and they know it makes them look good.
Leanne ElliottI mean, I can't say I'm at a— maybe I need to talk to you about your service, Angela, 'cause I can't say I'm at a point where I open my closet and I'm excited to get dressed, but I do have certain pieces or certain things that I wear and I feel great in. And I look forward to the day I can wear it again, because it's been long enough since the last time I wore it. Um, so yeah, I can see how that would just, yeah, elevate your mood. How does everything we've talked, talked about fit into your SPARK method?
Angela FosterSo we've talked about a lot. The first one is body shape. The second one is the perfect pant formula, because Leanne, you know, like pants are troublesome for short girls. They come up to your boobs or they're dragging on the floor and all of that. So, there's a simple 3-part formula that we put together so you can always find pants that fit you. Then, we talk about accessories. So, accessories can either go to your signature accessory, like we're talking about your headphones. I'm going to keep slipping that in there. So, afterwards, you're like, yes, I want to go look for a pair. But it can also be what accessories can accentuate your favorite feature. Then we talk about refining your style. So that's where the 3 adjectives come in and also what colors look best on your skin tone. Now, it's not— we are not the color police around here. Like, I am not going to tell somebody not to wear a color that happens to be their favorite because it's not on their ideal color palette. But it does help sometimes to fix an outfit that's not working. When you put something on, whether you're in a store or whether you actually own it, and you're like, gosh, what is this? Like, I just don't feel as good in this. I don't feel like my skin is as smooth and pretty looking or whatever. You'll know. And I think a lot of times knowing how to fix an outfit that's like on the fence is as powerful as just being able to pick out the right stuff, right? So that's refining the style. And then the last step is doing, keeping your closet clean. So purging the items that don't work, you know, filling in the blanks, knowing what to buy, not about just shopping without a purpose. You need to have a list. You need to know why, you know, like, why am I— but when I get this perfect black belt, what does that mean? That I'm going to have all these other options, or it's going to make this outfit look more polished and that type of thing. I think one of the things that's so harmful to a woman's self-esteem is when she walks into her closet and she's like, nope, makes my butt look big. Nope, my hips. Nope, shows off my stomach. Nope, nope, nope. And you just filled your mind with all this garbage about how your body is wrong and how— and all of that. Like, how are you supposed to leave the house and feel amazing and go crush your goals? Like, I mean, I can't do that. I can't imagine there's a ton of women out there. So we want to get rid of the items that aren't working, put, you know, like, like slowly add items that will work and will make, make it fun to get dressed in the morning.
Leanne ElliottWhat I love about that, Angela, is it sounds like there's a, there's a, there's a methodology, there's some, some guideline anchor points to follow, but equally what you're saying is don't get hung up on the trends. Yeah, color theory is great, but it's not, you know, you don't have to be a slave to it. You can have fun with it. It's about feeling good. It sounds as though you found a balance between. This is what we can do to make you feel great, whilst also being an individual and true to yourself, authentic.
Angela FosterOh, I love that. I'm totally going to take that snippet and put it on my website.
Leanne ElliottPlease do.
Angela FosterThank you. I hope so. I hope so. I just, you know, so many women are like, I, I'm however old, I'm 40 years old, and I haven't found out my style. And I don't know how to shop. And I don't know what to wear and all of that. And then they get to that point where, oh, I just wasn't born with the style gene. Like there's a gene, there's an extra chromosome somewhere that some women have and some women don't, and I don't have it. So I'm just stuck feeling frumpy or not stylish or whatever. And that's not the case at all. I really look at style as it really is. It's a science. And there's lots of women who are going to like people, you know, stylists who are going to make it sound super complicated, but it's not.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Angela FosterIt's really not.
Leanne ElliottIs there one thing that, that anyone could do today to maybe start to, or I guess a starting point, because like you said, we've talked about so much stuff and so much, so much exciting stuff that I instantly want to get onto Pinterest and go shopping, but for the sake of my bank account, where should I start?
Angela FosterOkay. Don't shop. That's the first, that is going to be the key takeaway for the listeners. Don't buy another thing. Don't purge anything until you have a plan, because that's what got us into the situation we're in right now with a closet packed of 163 items, which we wear 10% of, and we end up wearing the same thing over and over and over again. So don't shop until you have a strategy, whether that's my strategy, Leanne's strategy, a strategy you got from someone. Do you know what I mean? But have a plan because just to your point, just spending money on more stuff is not It's rarely the answer, rarely the answer. As many of my clients who've said, oh my gosh, I don't have anything to wear. Not one of them have they shown me their closet and it literally be empty. Like there's stuff, there's stuff in there that might not be the right stuff, but until we know what that is, just buying more wrong stuff isn't helpful.
Leanne ElliottAnd honestly, I could talk to you. I can't believe the hour's gone. I could talk to you for another hour. It's so interesting. I have one question that I would like to think there's many people out there that are burning to ask a stylist, what does dressy casual mean?
Angela FosterIs that the worst? That is the blooming worst. Not to get off topic, I, a client, we were having a coaching session and I have retainer clients and we meet once a month and we look at, you know, like we map out their outfits for the month. She got an invitation to a wedding and it literally said, Cocktail casual. And like, that's like, that's like an oxymoron, I think. Jumbo shrimp. Is that what it is?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Angela FosterYes. I'm like, I don't even know what that means. And nobody else does either. Stop coming up with things that, do you know what I mean? Like, don't mean anything. But in answer to your question, and this is, again, it goes back to not having something written down, not having specific expectations, that whole You know, like dressy casual, business casual, all those like buzzwords that people have pulled out, whoever the leader is, they need to be very specific as to what that means. Does that mean ripped up jeans? Does it mean no denim, only khakis? Does it mean, you know, because it can mean a bajillion different things. So, do everybody in your atmosphere a favor and be specific about it because you and I both know, like, We work with different, a lot of different, in a lot of different situations with different organizations. Business casual does not mean the same thing to everybody. So, please do your team a favor and be clear.
Leanne ElliottAngela, thank you so much. For our listeners, I'm sure there's loads of them who wanna find out more about you, your services, how to get in touch. Where, where should they go?
Angela FosterAbsolutely. So, I have a gift for your listeners. It's a body shape quiz so they can get started knowing the styles and silhouettes that flatter their shape the best. They can go to angelafoster.co/leanne and they'll get thrown right into the quiz with a personalized video afterwards with recommendations and that type of thing.
Leanne ElliottThat sounds so cool. I'm going to send it to all my friends as well. Oh, Angela, thank you so much. It's been such a joy and such an interesting and, and light conversation. It can sometimes be a bit tricky and triggering talking about this type of thing, but you've made it really fun and light and accessible. And for everybody. So thank you so much, so much for that. Um, I hope we have you again on, on the show soon.
Angela FosterOh, I would love that. And thank you so much for having me. It has been the most fun hour of the day.
Al ElliottThat was the amazing Angela Foster. All the links are in the show notes, so you'll be able to go and check out what she's doing. Like Leanne says, loads of stuff on her website, which is really good resources and stuff which can help you to look to work out exactly what you should be wearing to your next— well, your next meeting, your next work event, basically anything really.
Leanne ElliottBasically anything. Follow her on LinkedIn as well. She's always popping up in the comment sections offering some, offering some free advice. Her website, angelastylecoach.com, is well worth checking out. Huge thanks to Angela Foster, genuinely one of, one of my favourite guests that we've, we've had on the show. Um, thanks for bearing with us while we've, uh, been on holiday, and we practice what we preach, and we probably are thinking about you actually, because we do our best podcasting When we're on holiday. We'll be back soon.
Al ElliottRight, so we'll see you next Tuesday.
Leanne ElliottBye!
Al ElliottActually, can't say that word. We will see you on Tuesday.
Angela FosterBye-bye!