Episode 120 · 6 August 2024 · 44:37
Stress bragging, Gen-Z jargon and pets on Zoom - This Week in Work, 6th August 2024
Stress bragging, Gen-Z jargon and pets on Zoom - This Week in Work, 6th August 2024
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Stress bragging: the hidden cost of wearing busy as a badge
news roundup#stress#workplace-culture#burnout
Kamala Harris's laugh: why a belly laugh wins votes
news roundup#politics#election#kamala-harris
Future of Work in 2074: what Arthur C. Clarke got right
news roundup#future-of-work#technology#predictions
Workplace Surgery: memes in work chats
workplace surgery#workplace#communication#memes
Workplace Surgery: pets on Zoom meetings
workplace surgery#remote-work#zoom#pets
Workplace Surgery: transitioning to management
workplace surgery#management#career#leadership
Show notes
Stress Bragging, Gen-Z Jargon & Pets on Zoom — This Week in Work
This Week in Work — Al Elliott and Leanne Elliott (Chartered Occupational Psychologist) break down why "stress bragging" is making you look less competent, whether you should ever say "no cap" in a meeting, and what Kamala Harris's laugh can teach us about leadership. Plus, in the Weekly Workplace Surgery: memes at work, pets on Zoom, and making the leap from peer to manager.
🔥 Stories Covered
1. "Stress bragging" is making you look worse, not better Leanne introduces a new term: stress bragging — talking about how stressed you are as a badge of honour. Research from Personnel Psychology (Rodell, Shanklin & Frank, 2024) shows it actually alienates colleagues, creates more workplace anxiety, and reduces the willingness of coworkers to help. The hosts unpack why we do it, and why hustle culture is finally being seen through. Read the paper →
2. A guide to Gen-Z slang (for the terrified) Al shares a Forbes guide to Gen-Z talk — from "no cap" and "that slaps" to "delulu" and "menty b". Leanne tests Al's knowledge (spoiler: it does not go well). The verdict? Unless you're Gen Z, don't. It's the verbal equivalent of watching your parents dance. Read the article →
3. What Kamala Harris's laugh tells us about leadership Leanne discusses an Inc article on Kamala Harris's now-famous laugh and its psychological impact. Research shows laughter boosts motivation and team effectiveness — positive emotions can literally lead to success. In a world of so much seriousness, a full belly laugh might be the most underrated leadership tool. Read the article →
🔮 Future of Work: What Will Work Look Like in 2074?
Al and Leanne revisit a 1974 ABC interview with Arthur C. Clarke, who predicted we'd all have computers in our homes — and got it remarkably right. The conversation turns to what we're predicting now: four-day weeks becoming standard, AI reshaping roles, and whether this podcast will still exist in 50 years. (Spoiler: Al thinks they'll be cancelled by 2030.)
💬 Weekly Workplace Surgery
Three listener questions, tackled live:
- Memes at work: "Is it appropriate to use memes in work chats, or does it undermine professionalism?"
- Pets on Zoom: "I'm a remote team leader — should I ban pets from meetings, or am I being too mum-like?"
- Peer to manager: "I'm up for promotion. How do I transition from being a peer to being the boss?"
(Got a question? Submit it via the connect link below.)
Connect With Us
Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
Expand full transcript
Al ElliottThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Al ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Al ElliottNice. Check out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
Al ElliottHello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning psychology podcast brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name's Leanne. I'm a chartered psychologist My name is Al.
Al ElliottI'm a business owner.
Al ElliottWe're here to help you simplify the science of work and create awesome workplaces.
Al ElliottWelcome, welcome. If you hear a little bit of a tip tap in the background, it's because we've got a new addition to the family. It's a little dog called Bobby B. He's settling in nicely. He's been here for about 4 days now, but today he's not settling down. He keeps tapping around. He's got little claws and on our laminate floor it's like, so you might hear that. Anyway, we are here this week with the first of 4 episodes, which is in August, which We, we, we, we branded up as we're bringing you just a nice easy way to, to see your way through August but not lose touch with us. Actually, it's probably just because we're a bit lazy. We worked very hard in July and June and we want to have August off, so we're just doing one episode a week.
Al ElliottIt's a summer, it's a summer schedule. I think everyone in the Northern Hemisphere is on summer schedule right now. Um, so yeah, we brought you a bumper July. We had interviews with experts twice a week, so you've got 9 episodes to go back and binge on now you're on your holly bobs. We too are going on our holly bobs. So we are just bringing you our This Week in Work episodes, our regular Tuesday episodes where we just talk about more light stuff, really. I've already seen some of our listeners that are on their holidays. Alec is currently in Thailand. Dr. Hayley Lewis signed off LinkedIn today for all of August. You don't want to talk about work when you're on holiday, so we're not really going to talk about work. We're going to talk about stuff we've seen, stuff that's funny, stuff that's interesting, and some of your, some of your questions as well. So some lighter content.
Al ElliottYeah.
Al Elliottcontent for you to enjoy, um, all of August. Also means we're on one episode a week, so we can have a holiday too. Everyone wins.
Al ElliottLeah, we start off with your favorite time of the week.
Al ElliottI think it is my favorite time of the week. It is time for the news roundup. Alistair, cue the jingle.
Al ElliottFull name there. Okay, Lee, what have you seen?
Al ElliottI have a new word, or a new term. Okay, kind of. Um, I, I don't think you'll need the definition for this necessarily, But it's something that I've seen talked about more frequently and using this term. You ready for it?
Al ElliottI'm ready. Hit me.
Al ElliottStress bragging.
Al ElliottStress bragging.
Al ElliottStress bragging. It's when we talk about how stressed we are in a way that hints at our importance and serves as a badge of honour.
Al ElliottI hate that. I really hate that.
Al ElliottYeah. I mean, you know those conversations, don't you? Someone goes, oh, you have no idea how busy I am. It's so stressful. Um, it's boasting. It's maybe seeking validation for how hard people are working, how packed their schedules are. For some reason, it's cool to be busy. Busy means successful. We respect busy in others. Or do we? So a recent study published by Personnel— in Personnel Psychology by Jessica Rodell and her team took a closer look at this phenomenon. They found that stress bragging can actually alienate our co-workers, making us seem less warm and even less competent. So here's how they figured it out. The study involved 360 US-based participants who read one of 4 different scenarios about a co-worker returning from a conference. In one scenario, the co-worker simply said that the trip was good and shared the location of next year's conference. In another, they mentioned that things had been quite stressful lately. In the 3rd scenario, they stress bragged, saying the conference was good but adding, it was just one more thing on my full plate. You have no idea the stress I'm under. Lastly, there was a scenario where the coworker bragged about receiving an award and their thorough work but didn't mention stress. So after reading these scenarios, participants evaluated their colleague, and the results were pretty clear. Colleagues who engage in stress bragging were viewed as less warm and capable. People were also less inclined to help out their stress bragging colleagues compared to those who simply talked about stress or self-promoted. But that's not all. The second part of the study looked at the broader impacts of stress bragging. This time, 187 of employees and co-workers participated, filling out 3 surveys over 6 weeks. They shared their perceptions of their co-workers' stress bragging and reported their own stress levels. Similar to the first study, co-workers who were seen as stress braggers were viewed as less competent and warm, and their teammates also reported feeling more stressed and burnt out themselves. So what's going on here? Well, the authors suggest that stress bragging creates a transfer of stress rather than camaraderie. So instead of bonding, it contributes to general anxiety at work. Hearing a coworker stress brag can make us compare ourselves, worry about our own stress or lack of, and our own importance or indeed lack of, to be reminded of unfinished tasks and so on. So yeah, stress bragging might feel good, but other people aren't liking it, aren't buying it. The good news is though, if you want to vent about work, then you can do it. So simply talking about stress without making yourself seem indispensable or self-important doesn't make people think less of you. So the key is how you frame it. Venting at the proverbial water cooler, if you will, can still foster camaraderie if done right. Um, if you're curious, I'll leave a link to the full paper in the show notes. But yeah, um, I also love the name of the paper. It's called I'm So Stressed, um, which is brilliant. Um, so yeah, there you go. Stress bragging, it's not cool. People don't like it. Alastair, thoughts?
Al ElliottThis is what I think. I think that anyone who brags about how stressed they are are deeply insecure about the work that they're producing. Because those people who very quietly get on with stuff and then go home at 5 and have a lovely life generally bring— do great work. It's a bit like, you know, when you're on a train, and it might— I don't think it's the same in the US or Australia or anywhere else, but in the UK, you're on a train, there's always some knobhead who opens their, their stupid IBM ThinkPad and then gets on the phone and goes, yeah, I'm on a train, I'm on a train, so I can't really talk, but let me tell you just how quite Just briefly for the, for the purpose of the carriage, how important I am and why, and just tell you, do this and you do that. And it's just like, oh, will you please kindly FO? Because it's just, just bragging. It sounds really stupid. It sounds really just insecure and cringey, really.
Al ElliottYeah, I think it's, it's maybe some of the pushback of this hustle culture, isn't it? Where you need to be up at 5:00 AM and in the gym and then an hour of mindfulness meditation and then some—
Al ElliottAn ice bath.
Al ElliottYeah, butter and coffee or something. Um, yeah, I think people are starting to see through it and kind of thinking, well, actually, I think the respect now goes to people who have more balance, um, or more integration, however you want to look at it. Um, but yeah, I think, I think stress, people understand it more. People know that real stress is actually really bad for you. Um, so it's really like someone bragging about how unwell they are and how they're not looking after themselves. Um, and that's a bit, a bit weird, isn't it, really? It's interesting that, that there's some research, you know, coming out on our viewpoints of this, and maybe sentiment is, is shifting. There you go. As I said, I'll leave a link to the full article in the show notes if you're interested. Al, what have you seen this week?
Al ElliottWell, I found a new guide to Gen-Z talk. It's an article I saw in Forbes yesterday, and it's a guide for old farts like me, um, on words that Gen-Z use. Now, before I begin, don't take this as me telling you to go and use these words, because if you're my age and you start talking about, oh, that's so clutch, then it is the cringe. Oh, I'm cringing already. You know, you just feel like your shoulders like, ugh, Yeah, don't, don't do that because, I mean, it's the equivalent of, do you remember when your mum used to dance in front of you and you were a kid and you'd be like, oh my God, mum, don't do that. Really embarrassing. That's what the Gen Z would say. In fact, they'd probably call it cringe. Now, some of them you can kind of like infer what they actually mean, or they are sort of some, one of them I think comes back from 1911 Jazz Trio or something who started using it. But there are some which are genuinely, genuinely confusing. So you've probably all heard of if someone said something sus.
Al ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottThen you, you know, Leanne, what would you guess that would be?
Al ElliottSuspicious.
Al ElliottExactly. If someone says someone gives you the ick.
Al ElliottOh, just like, ugh, don't, I can't, I, I don't like it. I don't wanna be around it.
Al ElliottExactly. So these are like pretty obvious ones. Um, one which I've heard Leanne use recently is they understood the assignment. But here's a few of them that I hadn't come across. Lee, have a go at these.
Al ElliottOkay.
Al ElliottIf someone says, oh yeah, yeah, no cap. What do you think they'd say? What do you think they mean?
Al ElliottNo cap.
Al ElliottSo they might say, um, done the— yeah, this is a really good piece of software, no cap.
Al ElliottAs in like they've got no kind of skin in the game, they've got no like bias towards it, like it's an indip— it's, it's an independent review?
Al ElliottYeah. Now I, I would never have got this.
Al ElliottIs that right?
Al ElliottNo, no, it's not. But I'm trying to make you feel better about getting it wrong because I never would have got this either. It's not lying. So when you say it's a great piece of software, I'm not lying. You can also— Gen Zs will say no cap. No idea where that came from.
Al ElliottBut we don't know the root of it, like the cap.
Al ElliottI should, I should really have done some research on this beforehand, I think, on that one. Um, if someone said, uh, oh yeah, that slaps, what do they mean?
Al ElliottThat slaps must be like it's good, like slap on the thigh, kind of like woo.
Al ElliottYeah, that means, that means that that's good. So if someone said to me my shoes slap, I'd be, I'd be expecting that there's something wrong with them when they need to go get fixed. But actually what they mean is, you've got nice shoes. Um, if someone says stan— now I don't know the context of quite how you might say this, but stan— what would they be saying if they said stan?
Al ElliottThe only reference I can think of, like, is in the world of pop culture, which also shows how freaking old I am, is Eminem's Stan, like the song. And he was a little bit troubled. So is it somebody that's, that's a bit Having, having troubles? Having challenges?
Al ElliottNo, it actually means you support something. So I'm wondering if it's like stand behind, you know, like rizz came from charisma.
Al ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottI wonder if it's like stand behind something. Stan.
Al ElliottThese kids just not got the time to use a full word.
Al ElliottThey're busy people.
Al ElliottBusy people.
Al ElliottThey're all bragging about how busy they are. Uh, Leah, if I said you were delulu, what would you mean? What do you think I meant?
Al ElliottDelulu?
Al ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottRandom. Crazy.
Al ElliottNo, it means delusional.
Al ElliottDelulu.
Al ElliottDelulu means delusional. Oh, he's just delulu, him. He thinks he's good. He thinks we're going to get this project done by Monday. He's delulu.
Al ElliottOkay, delusional.
Al ElliottThe next one's a little bit slightly concerning. Um, if you're having a mentee bee, what would you be having?
Al ElliottA mental breakdown. Yes.
Al ElliottExcellent. But what I think—
Al ElliottI'm having such a mentee bee today.
Al ElliottI think what this doesn't literally mean you are having a terrible breakdown. I think this is more like, oh, I had a bit of a mentee bee this morning.
Al ElliottAs in like you forgot something, you stopped functioning, kind of.
Al ElliottYeah, exactly. It's more Humorous. And finally, if someone said, that's so clutch— and I'm pretty sure you've heard of this, I've heard it, didn't really know what it meant.
Al ElliottI don't know, I had no idea.
Al ElliottWell, apparently it means it's good. So something is good, but it comes from— I think it comes from sports, from the '80s in the sports where they clutched a victory at the very last minute. So generally speaking, the probably the proper way to say it is if someone Brought it back at the last minute. That's so clutch because they clutched it. But if you're a Gen Z listener and I've got that wrong, then please tell me because I'm just going off the research I did quickly.
Al ElliottYeah, well, we'll tell you what, we'll clip this up on, um, on YouTube Shorts or something and do one of the— what do the kids call it— a remix or whatever you call it, um, and just tell us how, how old and ridiculous we are. That would be helpful.
Al ElliottThat would be clutch.
Al ElliottSo that'd be stan.
Al ElliottI don't think you're—
Al ElliottYou stan.
Al ElliottI don't think you're using that word right. That word doesn't mean what you think it means. Anyway, so there you go. You can now talk like a Gen Zer, although don't if you're not a Gen Zer because you will look like an idiot. Leanne, what else have you seen?
Al ElliottI second that. Don't unless you're Gen Z. Don't. Um, what else have I got? Well, I have heard some rumblings from the USA over the last few weeks about the election in the autumn.
Al ElliottI don't know the story.
Al ElliottThey've got an election. We called it the Jenny-lec. Um, for a new president.
Al ElliottOh, right.
Al ElliottNot heard about this?
Al ElliottNo, I didn't know there was anyone in the running for a new president.
Al ElliottWell, yes, there is. Um, I mean, it's been quite, quite a roller coaster. I mean, I'm not, I'm not gonna go into it. I'm not going to comment on the assassination attempt and that photograph. I'm not going to talk about Biden's debate, um, or even the fact that the US could have its first woman president. Um, But actually, that's not entirely true because I do want to talk about Kamala Harris, but maybe not in the way that you think. I saw a really great article in Inc. magazine or Inc. website from Jessica Stillman. I'll leave a link in the show notes, but it is about Kamala Harris's laugh. Have you seen her? Have you seen her laugh?
Al ElliottNo.
Al ElliottAnd the videos of it?
Al ElliottNo.
Al ElliottSo she has a proper belly laugh, much like myself actually. But apparently Kamala's full belly laughs are becoming a defining feature of her public and political persona. Um, it seems that some people love it, some people think it's excessive. Um, but as Jessica points out, um, whatever, it's the psychological angle that's, that's interesting. So Jessica reported that according to psychologists, laughter generates energy and motivation. Um, they explain that joy is often underestimated, especially in a world where we're more attuned to our negative emotions. Um, so yeah, it's, it's, it's a really interesting article and looks Lots of different areas of psychology. But it also does point out as well, when we're devoid of those positive emotions, life can feel a bit dull and uninspiring. Some of the research that Jessica referenced was that humour activates the brain's dopamine reward system, which is critical for motivation and long-term memory. In educational settings, humour helps students retain more information. We've talked about that research before in the show. In the workplace. Stanford Business School professors have found that humor and laughter make for better leadership and more effective teamwork. And even Martin Seligman, the OG, the GOAT, I think the kids would say— although that's probably so millennial now, isn't it? Um, the pioneer of positive psychology, he found that happiness leads to success, not the other way around. Um, and his massive study of a million soldiers showed that positive emotions boost performance and career success. Although there is some debate about Martin Seligman's research Which you may remember from our episode on resilience with Bruce Daisley. So some words of caution around that. But yeah, regardless of political views, I don't think you can really deny that Kamala Harris's entry into the race has injected a bit of energy into the campaign, replacing that steady, somewhat low-energy presence of Biden with a more vibrant and joyful persona. So it does seem to be splitting opinion, but that's what you want to do in an election. And I like as well the contrast that we're seeing in terms of like the joy, rather maybe the serious fight, fight, fight that we're seeing from, um, the Republican camp. So yeah, there you go. What do you think, Al? Are you for a belly laugh or not?
Al Elliott100%. Love a belly laugh. Uh, I also think it's— I was thinking it's kind of funny that, um, that I think Kamala is just about to turn 60, and, uh, and she does just by, by compare— comparison that she seems so young and vibrant and full of youth, and she's about to turn 60, uh, which is kind of cool. It just feels that the other, the opponent has kind of dropped the ball a little bit and gone a bit too far into they are awful, aren't they awful, are you all with me? Because there was an Association of Black Journalists, I think, where he kind of fudged it a little bit. Yeah.
Al ElliottAnd I think that, um, you know, you're too old to be president is kind of coming back to bite him in the ass, that one as well.
Al ElliottYes, yes, it is. Anyway, anything else to add on that, my love?
Al ElliottNo, I just think it's really interesting. And I think I, for one, in a world where there is so much Um, so much happening. I mean, if you're in the UK, you would have seen the news this week, and what's been happening in the Northwest is shocking. There's a lot of negativity, there's a lot of anxiety around that. So I think anyone who can bring a bit of joy, a bit of happiness— laughter is contagious— I'm all for that. But as we said, it's regardless of political views. I think it's just a very fresh, um, a fresh thing that we're seeing from Kamala Harris's energy rather than her political perspectives. So we'll see. It makes for a much more interesting contest in November, I think.
Al ElliottYeah. And when you compare Kamala's youth with JD Vance, I think is the running mate, and his, um—
Al ElliottHe's, he's a character.
Al ElliottHe's an odd— he's an odd fish.
Al ElliottOh, honestly, we could get into the whole— do you know the cat lady thing?
Al ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottSit down, man. Behave.
Al ElliottGet back to your couch. If you know, you know.
Al ElliottHonestly.
Al ElliottAnyway, so after— Oh yeah.
Al ElliottOh yeah. Did you read about that as well? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, there's so much. It's just brilliant. It's just brilliant. What entertainment.
Al ElliottIt's like if West Wing was a, was a comedy, then that's what we're watching live, um, at the moment. Anyways, we'll be back after this very short break, and we're going to be talking about the future of work. And then we've got the world-famous Weekly Workplace Surgery with the lovely Leah, and she's going to answer your questions. We'll see you in a second.
Al ElliottDid you know that the UK's number one management podcast— that's us, by the way— yeah, yeah, and the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network.
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioral science to help people do better at work.
Al ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good looking. And you're not going to say which. Fel, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in threes— the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Al ElliottThe audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless. Seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. Uh, we've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioral science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.
Al ElliottIt is. It's such, it's such a good Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
Al ElliottIt can.
Al ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?
Al ElliottI am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Al ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back. Definitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this.
Al ElliottSo come back.
Al ElliottI'll cut that out.
Al ElliottKeep that in. Welcome back. So mystery segment, I didn't know what it was until yesterday either, but today, um, our little, our little mid-segment. I, I saw a really— I fell down the YouTube hole when I was thinking about things we could talk about as part of this, um, and I must admit it's heavily, heavily inspired by Vernon Kay's Radio 2 segment when they go into the BBC archives. So I fell down a YouTube rabbit hole looking at videos from the '50s, '60s, and '70s about the workplace, about the future of work, about the future technology. And I found this clip that I thought was brilliant. Al, would you like to introduce it?
Al ElliottSo this is an ABC interview from 1974 with the science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke. You'll probably know him. Uh, and he makes the bold claim that one day computers will allow people to work from home and access their bank records. Obviously, it's a little laughable now, but there's some interesting stuff on this. Shall we listen to the video? I brought along my son Jonathan, who in the year 2001 will be the same age as I am now. Maybe he will be better adjusted to this kind of world that you're trying to portray.
Al ElliottThe big difference when he grows up— in fact, if we wanted to wait to the year 2001—
Al Elliottis that he will have in his own house not a computer as big as this, but at least a console to which he can talk to his friendly local computer and get all the information he needs for his everyday life— his bank statements, his theater reservations, all the information you need in the course of living in our complex modern society. This will be in a compact form in his own house. He'll have a television screen like these here and a keyboard, and he'll talk to the computer, get information from it, and he'll take it as much for granted as we take the telephone. I wonder though, what sort of a life would it be Like in social terms? I mean, if our whole life is built around the computer, do we become a computer-dependent society and computer-dependent individuals? In some ways, but they'll also enrich our society because it'll make it possible for us to live really anywhere we like. Any businessman, any executive could live almost anywhere on Earth and still do his business through a device like this. And this is a wonderful thing. It means we won't have to be stuck We better live out in the country or wherever we please and still carry on complete interaction with human beings as well as with other computers. If you're wondering why it's so noisy, it's because— and you're watching and you're not watching on YouTube— then it's because they're in a room with a computer that takes up like 1,000 square meters or something, and it's just whirring behind them, all black and white. If you're not watching on YouTube, basically it's black and white and it's Arthur C. Clarke from 2001: A Space Odyssey. And they're, they're wondering what the future looks like. Lee, what were your thoughts? What happened here?
Al ElliottI loved it. I loved, I loved how accurate the predictions were, um, that yeah, we'll all have a computer, we'll use it for banking, for booking theatre tickets, um, we will be able to work from anywhere, we'll favour the country over the city potentially. Um, yeah, it's interesting that remote work was even on the cards back in, back in 1974. And it kind of got me thinking, well, that was 50 years ago, right? Because we're now in 2024. 2024 now. Um, so what's the world going to look like in another 50 years in 2074? And so I put a little post on, on LinkedIn to see what, what people thought. Um, and I, I left some suggestions. I think they were, you know, is, is, um, work in office work going to be back? Will we all live on Mars? Uh, will the 4-day work week be a thing? And I think you have the results there, Al.
Al ElliottYes. So it's really early days for this, but basically it is skewing towards 4-day work week is standard. Some people have decided that we've settled on Mars, which Possibly. Nobody thought that it was going to be around about what— that it's going to be all about the office. Really great comment here from Danielle Wood, and she's basically said that we— she thinks that we're going to be having virtual meetings in holographic rooms using an avatar. What is interesting, we work on outcomes, so we're better at defining what needs to be achieved and get paid accordingly. This is one thing which I think is already starting to come true. If you talk about the AI, you talk about sort of the gig economy, people are much more likely to get paid on an actual outcome rather than getting paid for turning up 9 to 5 and doing a job. That's interesting. Um, also, um, Danielle says that, uh, most advisory work will be answered by AI and be so sophisticated then having call centers staffed 24/7, 365 will probably be a thing of the past. That kind of makes sense because AI might be coming for some jobs, not everyone's jobs, but the way I think I see it and a lot of other people see it is that AI is going to take the stuff that is really dull and boring and low level, allowing us all to move up one level and actually become much more skilled at something perhaps a little bit more specific. Um, and then finally, uh, Danny says that coworking spaces become a bigger thing in all kind of weird and wonderful places so that people who don't want to miss out on the physical social interaction can get it whenever they want it. For example, in a sweet factory. I'm not going to say any more about that, but we have something coming up in August— no, September, which is exactly what that's talking about, Dani.
Al ElliottWhat a cheeky, cheeky little teaser you gave the people there. I, I think it's really interesting, and I think as well it kind of gives some perspective around, you know, we talked about generations a couple of weeks ago, and I think it's that, you know, 1974, it might sound like a long time ago, but it's not that long ago. That's when my parents were, were kind of in, in their early careers, and to You know, to be that person that goes, what's the world going to look like in 2001? Um, and all of those things at the time seemed so extraordinary, and now they are just day to day. I think as well what made me smile is, are we a computer-dependent society? Oh yes. Oh yes, we are. And I think if you had any doubt on that, the, um, that little software update thing that just broke the world is, uh, is evidence of that. Funny fact, we actually got on a flight a few days after that, and there was an issue with the technology at Split Airport. Not because of that, because of something else. Um, and we, we were delayed on, on the tarmac. And the captain came on and was like, yeah, you know, we're air traffic control having to do it manually. And I was like, manually? Of all the things I want to be done manually, directing planes is not one of them. Um, so yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? But it's, it's cool. And I, I think, I think this could be a fun thing for August because there's so many on YouTube and there's lots of very interesting ones as well about women in the workplace in the '50s and '60s. I think, I think it could be interesting. What do you think, Al?
Al ElliottYeah, the very fact that Arthur C. Clarke in that, in that videotape was saying, um, videotape? How old are you? Well, actually, how old I am is almost— I was born in 1977, so I was like conceived in 1976. There's only 2 years after, after, uh, after that, that video. A little bit disconcerting there. But I think that the fact that he said that a businessman will be able to do his business, you know, and it's— we laugh now, but what are we going to be laughing about? The stuff we're saying today, what are we going to be laughing about in 50 years' time?
Al ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottYou know, all the stuff that— I wonder if this podcast is going to exist. I wonder if people will be laughing at what we're saying here.
Al ElliottWe'll be cancelled by like 2030, won't we?
Al ElliottSo anything else to add on that, my love, before we move on?
Al ElliottNo, let's move on to the, uh, the world-famous Weekly Workplace Surgery, shall we?
Al ElliottYes, well done. You said it perfectly. I've been practising in the shower. Uh, if you, if you do, by the way, if you do have some thoughts on what, uh, what the future of the world would look like, what future work would look like in 50 years' time, go onto LinkedIn, search for Leanne, and you'll see it's one of our latest posts. You can just tell us there. Just tell us what you think.
Al ElliottOr if you, or if you've seen a good video on YouTube, tag us in @TruthLiesAndWork and we'll, we'll feature on the show.
Al ElliottI'm sure you know by now, Leanne is a chartered occupational psychologist. She's got lots of experience in helping managers, helping business owners.
Al ElliottAnd lots of student debt.
Al ElliottWell, well, hopefully if you buy some stuff from us and if you get 100,000 of your closest friends to listen to this, then perhaps our sponsorship deal might pay off your student debt. Anyway, we're not here to talk about your student debt. We're here to talk about an unusual issue. Let me read to you. So my team are a little younger than me, and when we chat through Slack, they often use memes instead of writing out what they mean. Now I have 2 main concerns here. Firstly, am I going to look like I'm trying too hard if I start using these memes too? There's no idea of the, of the age difference here, but they have brought up the age difference, which sounds like they're not the same age. And secondly, what if I use the wrong one, or worse, one that is totally offensive? Also, I want everyone to enjoy work and have fun, but I do worry that our work chats are becoming a bit like a friends WhatsApp group, and that it might encourage people to be less than professional, especially when talking to clients. So the question is, how do I encourage fun in the workplace where we can use memes without it getting out of hand?
Al ElliottThere's a few different things going on here. I think first of all, if you don't know what it means, or unless you're confident you know what it means and you've asked somebody younger what it means, don't use it. I blew my mind. You know the praying emoji?
Al ElliottI thought that was thank you, but go on.
Al ElliottOr the thank you emoji. Yeah. And I think if you search for it, it says pray, but it's like the thank you emoji. Yeah, you use the thank you. It was— it's not that. It's 2 people giving a high five.
Al ElliottNo, it's not.
Al ElliottYeah, I think it's, it's now culturally been used for that, but that's what it was initially intended, was a high five. Um, so yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a difficult landscape if you don't understand it. So I would avoid that entirely. Um, I wouldn't be too worried about the Slack chat getting too, um, too friendly or too jokey, or as long as nobody's, nobody's being rude or offensive. Um, because that's what we want. We want people to build these personal relationships, these friendships. I'm sure you've seen loads of stuff on LinkedIn or in the media about, you know, if you've got a work bestie, then you're much more likely to be engaged in, engaged in your work. Um, so I wouldn't discourage that too much. Of course, needs to be boundaries in terms of professionalism. And the best way to do that really is to decide that as a group, um, using something called a team charter. So that's really just having a session where you're like, what do we want our team to represent? Who do we want to be? Um, you know, these are our company values. How do they reflect us as a team? What does that mean in terms of how we communicate? What does that mean in terms of how, um, how we communicate with clients? I mean, the other thing as well, because young people are very, um, I think aware and mindful of the different demographics and ways of thinking we have in our workforces. Sometimes it's just a bit of awareness that actually, well, you know, using these emojis can potentially be ageist because I don't always know what those mean. Or it could be that's really difficult for somebody who is autistic or neurodiverse because they look at things in a different way in terms of facial expressions or emotions. So I think actually the younger people will probably respond quite well to these types of conversations and discussions, as long as it's a discussion and not a, you can't do this because it's ageist, um, then I think young people respond really well. And then create that team charter. What are the, the rules essentially that, that govern, um, how that team operates? Making sure then that you reinforce those, those rules and those desired behaviors, um, through praise, through recognition, um, and, and the opposite of that when, when someone does something that is out of sync with the team charter. Um, I think that's the best way to do it, and I think though getting this consensus will be really helpful. And it sounds as well that people are on good friendly terms anyway, so this type of conversation will probably be really fruitful and really interesting. Um, but yeah, that, that would be my, my advice. Don't use the emojis yourself unless you know what they mean. Don't worry too much about people being friendly. That's actually the types of relationships we want to foster in our organization. And if you want to set those boundaries, a, um, a co-developed team charter is a really useful way of doing that.
Al ElliottGreat answer. I would add just a couple of little things. First of all, if you, if you want to basically understand, just in case you don't know what a meme is, it's spelled M-E-M-E, not meme, as someone once said to us. A meme is basically little sort of GIFs, little sort of animated things, usually about a second long. If you want to basically get 80% ahead, go and watch the, uh, the US Office Because the majority of memes around the workplace are going to be from the US office. But I would also make it my kind of a two-way fun thing. So I might have a meme quiz that the team has a quiz and they give it to me and I have to guess what the meme means. And then I give them a quiz and I say, which ones of these would— do you think is appropriate for the workplace? And that way you make it a bit fun because it's a quiz. And then you're also, you know, you're learning. And but then you're also this whole idea of the charter that Leanne was talking about. Leanne, you're also learning what's appropriate for the team and obviously for clients. I think my advice would be not to use them at all with clients unless you— they use it first. Okay, Leanne, are you ready for question number 2?
Al ElliottYes.
Al ElliottThis one's a little bit closer to home, I think. So, I own an agency and most of my team work remotely, as I do. We have regular Zoom calls, but one team member always brings along her cat. So for the first 5 minutes, everyone's chatting about the cat and we don't get any real work done. So now subsequently, one of the other team members has started bringing their hamster along too. It is cute, but I'm convinced the pet owners aren't truly concentrating on the meeting. The hamster apparently peed on the last call. I'm guessing peed whilst they're on the call rather than peed on the computer. So his owner disappeared for a few minutes to clean it up. Now, I don't want to be a grumpy old woman, but at the same time, we have tight deadlines and everyone needs to to give their all to the meetings. So should I ban pets in the meetings? If so, how do I do it so it's not too mum-like?
Al ElliottNo.
Al ElliottNo, what?
Al ElliottNo, don't ban pets in the meetings. There's a few things in there. I mean, refer to previous answer about these are how we build the friendships and connections that we want in an organisation. You might have tight deadlines and you want people to give their all. They're still human and they have lives outside work. It's kind of like the carrot, the old carrot and the stick analogy, isn't it? Positive reinforcement is infinitely more effective than negative reinforcement. Oh, I think, you know what, I think just accept that the first 5 minutes is going to be about this. Or as I mentioned with the memes, make a thing of it. Um, you know, you don't want to exclude the people who don't have pets, so bring something interesting to the next meeting. Bring something that represents how your current mood that day, or what did you have for lunch, or— I think there's nothing wrong with spending the first 5 minutes of a meeting just chatting, because that's also what you do in, in face-to-face situations. You don't walk into a meeting room in silence, sit down and not look at each other until the meeting starts.
Al ElliottThat's true.
Al ElliottSo we're actually creating the virtual, you know, communication and the platforms we have, and we're lucky to have. They're intended to replicate what we do in, in face-to-face. So it's part of that. I understand there's a clearer boundary when that meeting starts because of the technology, but our human behavior isn't isn't that clean-cut. So I'd get over it. Add 5 minutes to your meeting if that's really, really bugging you. Um, it also says as well that perhaps you're getting a little bit frustrated, perhaps a little bit cynical, um, about some of this. I would wonder whether there's things that you can do to actually indulge in these 5 minutes to just help lighten your load, perhaps. Um, yeah, or perhaps there's other issues in terms of team performance that go a bit broader than this that need to be looked at. But if it's surface level, just the question that that you've sent in, get over it and add an extra 5 minutes to your meeting.
Al ElliottI think it's quite telling that you say you don't want to appear too mum-like, which suggests to me that you already see yourself as a mum, which is not a great way to be an agency owner, a boss, a manager, or anything like that. You should be there to support them. Um, you could, yeah, if you want to, there could be, there could be some kind of sacrifice— uh, not sacrifice, what's the word? Um, um, when you meet in the middle, what's it called?
Al ElliottCompromise?
Al ElliottCompromise is exactly the word. There could be a compromise where you just Just go, right, okay, so we have Fun Mondays. Monday meetings are fun day meetings, and you bring along what you've done at the weekend, or you bring along your pets, or I don't know, a calendar you might have made. I think I might have got a little bit into show and tell.
Al ElliottYeah, I mean, I think the thing is though, isn't it, is it's— is it's— I, I see leaders do that, and I see people do that because they're desperately trying to foster these more friendship-based relationships, because they know that builds camaraderie and collaboration and support and And psychological safety. Forcing these things can feel a bit awkward and can actually make people be a bit eye roll. We do the same thing every Friday. Um, so I think the thing is you're in this really lovely position where you've, you've already got that organically, that's happening. So I'd be really, really careful not to squash that. Um, I think it's more a case of, of maybe managing your own expectations. It goes on for 5 minutes and then And then you get started. Um, yeah, I don't know. I think— I don't know, Al, it just makes me feel a bit awkward. It's like, why wouldn't you want to have this, these types of relationships amongst your team? And all right, the man who's, you know, hamster peed, if that happens every meeting, then of course you say something. It happens once, whatever. Maybe I'm just in my August flow, but I'm like, ah, whatever, don't take it so seriously.
Al ElliottAs Danny said, outcome-based. If your team is doing the do, then fine, fine. And perhaps, perhaps it is, perhaps we're tying all this together because you feel really stressed and this is your way of boasting that you are really important with stress boasting, stress bragging. You, you said, wasn't it? That you're like, oh, well, it's just, you know, I'm so important and busy that I haven't got time for all this kind of, as my father, as my father would say, tomfoolery. Anyway.
Al ElliottAll this humanness. Yes.
Al ElliottHow dare they have fun at work? How dare they have a life outside? I'm sorry, OP, that sounds like a little bit like I'm having a go at you. I'm not. We're just poking a little bit of fun, but maybe take yourself a tiny bit less seriously and look at the outcomes. All right, it might be a high-stress environment, but this could be the way that they actually, they actually cope with the high stresses, to have fun when they do get together. And the other thing is, perhaps they're crying out for a bit of in-person. If they are all remote and they all do want to share a little something about their lives, perhaps it is time for the occasional in-person meeting.
Al ElliottExcellent advice, Al.
Al ElliottThank you very much, Hope. I could be a chartered psychologist. Dead easy. Dead easy. Let's go to question number 3. Um, and I think you're gonna sense a tone here. And, and—
Al ElliottOh, I enjoy a tone.
Al ElliottYeah. I'm interested to hear whether you pick it up straight. Well, I'm sure you will pick it up, but interested whether you address it straight away. I've been at the same firm. So this is the person writing in. I've been at the same firm for a few years now and have a great relationship with my coworkers. There is a management role coming up that I know I would be great at. I would slay, as the Gen Z say. But I'm worried that my—
Al ElliottHe got raised. He got management raised.
Al ElliottManagement raised. I wonder if you can have management raised.
Al ElliottI'll look on TikTok later.
Al ElliottYou do that. You're going, you're going, yeah, text your nephews. Or they're probably on Snapchat, they don't even reply to texts anyway. So this promotion's coming up, this person thinks they're going to be great at it, but they're worried that their co-workers will struggle if they went from their equal to their boss. Red flag number 1. So this OP says, can I do anything in the next few weeks before the promotion is hopefully announced to make them accept that I will be giving them orders from now on. Oh, I thought you might, um, I thought this might make you chuckle. Um, OP, sit down, get a cup of tea and a biscuit because I think you're about to be schooled.
Al ElliottI think you need— I think the best thing you can do over the next few weeks is shift your attitude and mindset, being honest. You're not ordering these people around. You are still their equal. You're not superior. Um, that's not what management is. You will, you, you will be the person that is doing some of the grunt work some days because it allows your team to focus on, on more value-add activities. You're going to be the person that's going to take the hit if things go wrong. Um, you're the person they're gonna blame if things go wrong. It's such an Especially that middle manager. We talked about this with, um, with Kate Luzio, didn't we? That power middle. But it's also really tricky because you're getting it from all angles, um, all sides, all levels. You are the person that, that will ultimately be held, held accountable, whether you think that's right or not. That's just the way middle management works. Um, I, I would reflect more on why you want this promotion, why you want the, the management role. Is it the role or is it the pay bump?
Al ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottOr is it indeed the power? Um, power is, is— power is not it. The best you can hope for as a manager that will give you influence is respect, and that is earned, and that's going to be earned on the job. And I think I've said before, you know, you're only as good as your last day as a manager. Um, if you mess up one day, um, then it will basically take away most of all the good stuff you've done before, um, consistency is, is really, really key, particularly with, um, with millennials and Gen Z. Um, yeah, I'm being honest, I think some deep reflection is required for this in terms of the role, in terms of the types of manager you want to be, the types of manager you look up to yourself. Maybe just reflect on that. Who's the best manager you've had? And what behaviors did they Did they show that you like, that you respect, that you responded to really positively and helped you to do your work and do your work well? Then think about somebody who wasn't so great, like the worst manager you've ever had, and write down the behaviours that you didn't like, why those behaviours were unproductive for you, were demotivating for you. And just try and maybe think in terms of then the behaviours that you would want to adopt, the ones that you believe would be motivating, just as a starting point. Being honest, I think if you do get this promotion, coaching would be a really good route for you. Probably some management training would also be, be helpful, because it sounds like at this point you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to be a manager. Um, and approaching it the way you're speaking about it, your colleagues won't accept you. And they will not take your orders.
Al ElliottI see. I knew that you, as soon as I said that, I knew which route you're going to go down and you absolutely did. Um, yeah, it's, it's just as, as Leanne says, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of what actually management is. Um, something Leanne taught me is that basically sort of almost like it's an upturned pyramid in that the people who are the managers at the bottom of the pyramid and then the, the broad part of the pyramid is the top and those are the people and each level down, you're supporting the person above you. Um, and that's basically the idea of a manager, is you're supporting the people above you. You— they don't work for you, you kind of work for them, because your, your job is to make their job easier and take away as many challenges as you've got. Um, yeah, coaching would be great. If you are listening to this and you do want coaching, Leanne does do coaching. I don't quite know whether you're, you're able to expense it or not, but you know, if anyone's listening to this and they want a little bit of management coaching, then Leanne is definitely someone to, to speak to. You can go to the show notes, you can book a session There if you want. Lee, it's been an action-packed, bumper, politically biased, fun, hamster-peeing episode.
Al ElliottEarly laughing. Yeah, I enjoyed that. I hope you did, listener, but I enjoyed that. Some interesting questions on the, the surgery there. And yeah, I'm— I— it's interesting, isn't it, how also your— maybe your mood and your mindset can, can influence some of the, the, um, the thoughts that you have, which is also worth, worth reminding, isn't it? If it reminds them, they're also worth remembering. That's the word. Anyway, I haven't even had a cocktail yet. Um, yeah, cool. If you've got a question, send it in. And particularly if you're enjoying this more laid back, it's fine, chill out, don't take yourself so seriously. Um, Leanne, I'm, I'm here for it.
Al ElliottWe're here for it all of, uh, August. So this is the first one. We've got next week nothing on Thursday, don't forget, because we are going to be Drinking margaritas in the pool, and then on the following Tuesday we'll have another one of these, probably just as silly and daft as this, and a bit more laid back. So if you've got anything you've seen that you want us to talk about in the news roundup, get in touch. You'll see all the links in the show notes. And if you've got a question for Leanne, as Leanne said, just get in touch. You can do it anonymously if you want, or you can actually some people we actually do do give the the name out. Sometimes if it's a question like that, even if you had given your name, I probably wouldn't. I didn't read it out just because I knew that Leanne was gonna have a go at you.
Al ElliottPolitely challenge, I think. Constructively challenge. Um, but yeah, you can drop us an email as well, um, hello@truthliesandwork.com. That comes straight through to— straight through to us. LinkedIn on the page Truth, Lies and Work Podcast, or me and Al directly. All of those links are in the show notes. You just need to give it a little click.
Al ElliottIf you have enjoyed this and you do enjoy the stuff we've got, Then the most probably the easiest way to pay us back is just simply to leave us a review. Um, because that helps us to climb the charts that we hit number 4, I think I said, in Spotify a couple of weeks ago, because people like you took 2 seconds out to give us a rating and just leave a couple of words on what you liked and what you— well, don't say what you didn't like, do that privately, but say what you did like. It really does mean the world to us. So if you have got a second to do that, that'd be fantastic. If you're on YouTube, you'll see that our— We're not really hitting it on YouTube. So if there's something that you've got some feedback, then leave a comment to tell us what we're doing wrong. We got a great comment a few years— a few weeks back, and we changed the way we did YouTube. So we just want to hear from you.
Al ElliottWe actually had one bit of feedback from a listener, and we completely changed how we do our guest interview episodes. You might have noticed, you might have heard. Um, so we do, we do actually respond to it. We want to make a great show for you. Um, it's your show as much as it is, is ours. So let us know, but positive, positive, constructive and positive vibes, please. It's August. If you want to come for us, let's do that in September. If you're on your Hollybobs, if you're lying on that sun lounger and my voice is coming in your ears, have a fabulous holiday, my friend. You deserve it.
Al ElliottYou do. We'll see you next time. Bye bye bye. Let's try and do that again without all the stuttering.
Al ElliottDip dip dip dip dip dip dip dip dip.
Al ElliottSorry. Okay, then.
Al ElliottSorry. Caught my breath then. Sorry.
Al ElliottJust call someone.
Al ElliottTip tap. Bobby.
Al ElliottGo lie down, dude.
Al ElliottBobby, come on.
Al ElliottDown.
Al ElliottUh-uh.
Al ElliottI'm there. Always getting told off. Get another dog, they said.