Episode 169 · 6 February 2025 · 46:01

Will A.I. Take My Job? HubSpot’s Answer Might Surprise You! Featuring, Crevan O'Malley, VP Corporate Sales at HubSpot

Featuring Crevan O'Malley

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Introducing Crevan O'Malley and his role at HubSpot
intro#hubspot #crevan-omalley #role
How HubSpot is embedding AI across the business
interview#hubspot #ai #business
What's working for businesses adopting AI
interview#ai #business #adoption
Will AI replace people? HubSpot's perspective
interview#ai #job-replacement #hubspot
Giving value-add time back to the business
interview#ai #productivity #time-management
The message from HubSpot's leadership on AI and jobs
interview#hubspot #leadership #ai #jobs
The ethics of AI in business
interview#ai #ethics #business
Crevan's enthusiasm for the tech world
interview#tech #enthusiasm #hubspot
The importance of LinkedIn as your shop window
interview#linkedin #personal-branding #career
Wrap-up and key takeaways
interview#summary #key-takeaways #ai

Show notes

Will AI Take My Job? HubSpot's Answer Might Surprise You — with Crevan O'Malley

Guest: Crevan O'Malley — VP of Corporate Sales at HubSpot.

"Is AI coming for my job?" It's the question every leader hears and every employee fears. Crevan O'Malley joins Al and Leanne to share exactly how HubSpot is integrating AI across sales, marketing, and customer service — without job cuts.

Crevan gets practical about the right and wrong ways to use AI in your business, the productivity gains that come from automating admin (not human connection), and why the people who learn to work with AI will be the ones who thrive. Plus, the ethics of AI: transparency, data privacy, and trust.

Top Takeaways

AI isn't replacing people — but people who know how to use AI will replace those who don't. The shift is about skills, not headcount.
The biggest productivity gains come from automating admin, not human connection. Let AI handle the repetitive stuff so people can focus on relationships.
Ethics matter. Businesses need transparency and trust when integrating AI — and companies that fail to adopt AI risk being left behind.

Connect With Us

Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect

Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14

Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.

Full transcript

Expand full transcript

Al ElliottThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.

Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.

Crevan O'MalleyNice.

Al ElliottCheck out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.

Leanne ElliottHello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning psychology podcast brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. The audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a chartered psychologist.

Al ElliottMy name is Al. I'm a business owner.

Leanne ElliottAnd we are here to help you simplify the science of work and create amazing workplace cultures.

Al ElliottYes, we are. Welcome, welcome. Hello, hello. Welcome to you if you're brand new here, and thank you for coming back if you've been here before. If you have listened to Tuesday's episode, you'll know that we're back home in Mostar. The sun is out, it's beautiful, and we're also in our studio as well.

Leanne ElliottIt's chilly though. It's chilly. Still jumper. Um, but yes, we are home. Regular listeners will also know that every Tuesday Al and I bring you a roundup of the latest news in workplace culture, plus a hot take from an industry expert. And we also have our world-famous weekly Workplace Surgery where Al puts your questions to me.

Al ElliottYes, and every Thursday, just like today, we bring you a brand new interview with an expert guest who knows how to create a great workplace culture. And today's guest is a really good one. We have the VP of Corporate Sales from HubSpot, Crevan O'Malley, who's here to talk about how HubSpot are implementing AI in their sales and marketing departments.

Leanne ElliottNow I'm just going to stop you there before you start shouting nepotism at your phone or your radio or however you listen to your podcasts. Um, hold that thought. Yes, HubSpot are our sponsors. We make no secret of that. In fact, we're very pretty freaking proud actually to be part of the HubSpot Podcast Network. But this has nothing to do with sponsorship. HubSpot, you know, it's a huge organization. They've been quite open about how they're trying to leverage AI in everything they do. So we thought it'd be a really great example for the rest of us to learn how AI can enhance and support employees without taking their jobs away.

Al ElliottYes. And one of the most common questions we actually get for our Workplace Surgery is, is AI coming for my job? And you know what, the second most common question we get is from leaders who say, how can I use AI to reduce costs and streamline processes? In other words, How can I potentially replace people with AI? So strap in today because Crevan O'Malley will answer both of those questions.

Leanne ElliottYes, I asked Crevan this pretty directly. In fact, exactly like this: will AI replace people at HubSpot? And his answer is both honest and a little bit surprising.

Al ElliottSo let's go and join Leanne and Crevan and learn the right and wrong way to use AI in your organisation.

Leanne ElliottAnd welcome to Truth, Lies and Work. I have been looking forward to this conversation for quite a while. For our listeners who maybe haven't heard of you, Would you mind introducing yourself, telling us who you are, what you do, and what you're famous for?

Crevan O'MalleyMy name is Crevan O'Malley and I am the Vice President for Corporate Sales at HubSpot. I run our upmarket business on the sales side. HubSpot would be pretty well known, I think, for CRM and marketing automation to the SMB sector. And over the last number of years, the product-market fit has opened up some really interesting conversations with larger, more complicated businesses.

Leanne ElliottCan you share some of the ways that HubSpot are using AI to support businesses in elevating In terms of AI, there's a whole host of things that HubSpot is doing.

Crevan O'MalleyWe obviously provide CRM systems and marketing automation, the whole customer experience platform, and that stack goes from marketing to sales to service. In our world, we talk about a flywheel across those 3 functions as opposed to the traditional funnel.

Leanne ElliottYeah.

Crevan O'Malleywhere, you know, customers were dropped in at the top and, you know, over the course of a number of processes, sales came out as an output. We put the customer right in the center and we talk about attracting customers, engaging with customers and delighting and now delivering for customers, which kind of follows the arc of marketing and right after sales service. And like lots of tech companies in the last year or so, and it's literally that recent, you know, the Advances and the opportunities that AI opens up has disrupted everything. And as a company that would like to see itself and position itself as such, as a kind of a disruptor within the industry and the sectors that, that we find ourselves in, I feel it's a really good match in terms of HubSpot's brand being first to market with some of these opportunities and and kind of value-added features for a CRM system. So now we kind of go to market with a smart CRM that has AI embedded everywhere. And just to give an example of it in terms of how we use it, but also what the product itself does for our customers, let's look at the sales function. You know, loads of evidence and research out there to suggest that if we talk about a sales account executive in any business, any industry, with any level of experience, there is literally about 2 to 2.5 hours of work a day where that individual is talking to a customer. And if you're somebody who is a business owner for a small business or a large corporate, there is an incredible efficiency gap between what the potential is to simplify your sales team's role. And how they could show up for customers in a more meaningful way. And why is it just two to two and a half hours a day? Well, they're absolutely swamped with admin. The level of research that had to be done traditionally to prepare for calls because right now you need to show up for customers in an insight-driven way where you're sharing and educating as opposed to just pitching your products. Your customers know all about you before the conversations ever start. And then of course the whole. Follow-ups with emails and quotations and proposals, a lot of admin in the sales job traditionally. And we're finding that AI is a way to shortcut some of that. So when we think about an ability to accelerate the function, the AI tools that we have available to our teams and within our products for our customers, they accelerate the discovery process. They help you qualify in a more intentional way where that's an automated function, and then you get to focus on the connection piece. And in research that we've done, we're suggesting that we're taking about 25 to 30% of the time out of the discovery function within the sales team's daily practices. And then if we go to the follow-ups, you know, through automated summaries of calls, through crafting email follow-ups, it's suggested that that work can be anything up to 20 to 25% faster. So there's no doubt that the use of AI, and in particular within our sales function, it's a prospecting agent that does a lot of that upfront work before the call. The sense we have is that AI can do a lot of the content, the manual work, the admin-heavy work, and then that allows your sales team to focus on the connections, the engagement with customers, the relationship piece, the insight-driven subtlety of conversations to where those customers are. So, you know, it's not simply AI for AI's sake. I think the sense of who we are, the vendor, the products that we provide, it's about infusing those with AI to allow people work in a more efficient way. Because look, ultimately technology needs to be an enabler. We're trying to solve old problems in new ways, right? We're trying to help sales teams talk to, engage with, and hopefully successfully contract with customers. They are problems that have been around for a long, long time. And we feel that obviously with a CRM system, but with AI on top of that, we can really empower those sales teams to do a much better job for their prospects and for their customers.

Leanne ElliottDo you mind sharing maybe some of the things that are working particularly well for the businesses that are starting to implement some of these new features?

Crevan O'MalleyWe had some senior executives from teamwork.com, for Swapfiets, and for Pleo across a various group of industries were represented as some incredible speakers. You know, a couple of things that stand out for me in Swapfiets. Chris talked about the level of tickets that their service offering, which is part of the HubSpot platform, their Service Hub is managing. Yeah. And what they specialize in is effectively bicycles as a service. Unsurprisingly, it comes from the Netherlands, but they're in many, many European cities now. And over the course of 12 months, they process anything up to half a million tickets where people who use that service, who rent the bicycles for a period of time, have an issue. And it can be anything from a breakdown to a use of the app. And to be able to do that in an efficient way where individuals are getting the information that they need in a much faster way doesn't always require them to speak to a human. But when it does, they can elevate that conversation quite quickly. But through the use of chatbots, through the use of knowledge bases, people can get the answers that they need in a very, very efficient way for the business, but also for, for the customer themselves. And I think chatbots have been around for a while, and effectively things like predictive analytics and smart knowledge bases, you know, we probably didn't brand those as AI when they came on the scene first. But again, it's about the AI tools and software fueling those tools and systems to work in a more even efficient way. And we have examples now where instead of actually drafting your knowledge base and selecting frequently asked questions and editing it in terms of that being somebody's job, because your AI can scan your entire content set and actually learns in real time from the experiences of customers, you can actually watch the AI develop and build your knowledge base as they engage with more and more customers. So serving up customers information and data that they need in a timely fashion and that evolving as your business grows. That was quite interesting. On the teamwork.com team, I thought it was really interesting. Lubna talked about— she's the CMO— and she talked about approaching customer experience application investment from the entire go-to-market team. So I think traditionally what we've had is where if the marketing function or the sales function or the service customer support function needed automation or needed an application to help them do their job, they operated in terms of contracting with different vendors in a silo way. And then suddenly you've got that fragmented experience of customer data not being available to everybody who touches the customer. That causes frustration. Being able to set out their requirements across the entire customer journey and agreeing that if the customer is central to the outcomes that they want, well then, in certain decisions, maybe marketing don't get exactly the tool that they want, or sales perhaps have to compromise in a particular piece of functionality, but that the overall investment is a prioritization of what the customer pains and the customer problems are. I think that was a really interesting conversation. And where that leads back to AI is you will find that while you can buy best-of-breed solutions for particular functions, the idea of a platform architecture is really interesting because AI is only as good as the data that you feed it. And if you feed it a disparate amount, a departmental-level amount of data, then you miss the richness of the customer experience across their entire journey. Whereas if you have a platform experience and effectively Leanne or Crevan, whoever the prospect or customer might be, wherever they show up in that journey, they're effectively on the same database. So marketing, sales, and service see the same information, feeds a more speedy and easy relationship with that customer or prospect. And when you layer on AI functionality and value on top of that engagement, you get some of the speeds and efficiency that I talked about. So I think some really interesting use cases, some really interesting problem solving going on at our customer level to tackle, again, as I said at the top of the chat, problems that have been faced with go-to-market teams, sales teams for years. And it's really exciting where the technology is bringing them in terms of being able to service those customers going forward.

Leanne ElliottAnd as you say, some huge productivity gains there and speed gains. There is a concern that AI is going to strip away that human touch, that human connection in customer interactions, and for salespeople as well to have that human aspect as part of their role. How is HubSpot striking a balance between using AI to kind of augment the go-to-market process whilst maintaining that human-to-human customer interaction.

Crevan O'MalleyYeah, I think it's a fantastic point, Leanne, because there's probably rightly, you know, an element of anxiety with go-to-market individuals, go-to-market professionals. You know, ultimately, is the machine, whatever the machine may be, potentially going to do my job more efficiently, quicker? And does that mean it can replace me? We have a very, very specific point of view on this, and it is around the potential for a person who adopts the technology and the use of AI in as efficient a way as possible. That is the threat. There is no vista from my perspective on, you know, salespeople, marketing people, being replaced. Functions, pieces of work, manual work that allows itself to be automated, that can absolutely be made efficient. So we think of people, let's say, in the marketing function. AI can help the creative part of that function in an enormous way. But ultimately, people will need to add the level of curation and subtlety to the conversation to make those human connections. So for example, if you work in a marketing function and you're interested in speed and you want the AI and the tools to work for you, well, then you can, you know, get drafts for content, get drafts for blog posts, and, you know, that will speed up that engagement and that process without any doubt. And it can be of an excellent quality. But depending on the industry, the use case, the sector, you know, even the macroeconomic environment that the message needs to land in, the channel that it needs to land in and intersect those prospects with. You still want the human involved in that campaign creation and delivery because they've got that context to add that layer of insight onto the top of the content as prepared by the AI. Agent. And I think that's really what helps with the relationship build and the sense of an individual, whether I'm in B2C or B2B. You know, people don't want to just be communicated to or marketed to by brands. At some point in the conversation, they want to talk to people. People want to engage with people. The challenge is for businesses in B2B, because we have adopted very manual processes up to now, the person-to-person engagement has to be— has to come very early in the conversation. And a prospect may not be in a buying position. The information that they need from a service perspective might be quite simple, and they just need a question answered. And it is not an efficient use of human resources on the company side. to pour them into those functions. You want your people to do the most difficult work, manage the most serious escalations from your customers, or connect with the most interesting prospects or customers so that you can have those conversations and really get to know those businesses. Because ultimately, investment decisions of any kind, and certainly from a, a customer experience platform vendor, When you're really talking to that customer and you can show them an understanding and an intuition about the problem that they have and what the potential future state might look like, that's when you're really, I think, building that business and building that relationship. And that's what drives loyalty. Relying completely on automated AI in terms of content creation or knowledge base. to answer questions, that's only going to deliver so much. So I think both coexisting and complementing each other is exactly how we would see the future. And for businesses that don't adopt it, I think there's definitely a threat that you'll be overtaken by competitors who are adopting that efficient way of serving their customers.

Al ElliottOkay, after this short break, we're going to hear more from Crevan, and Leanne puts a tough question to him about the ethics of using AI to do parts of your job. See you after the break.

Leanne ElliottDid you know that the UK's number one management podcast—that's us, by the way—and the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?

Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common.

Leanne ElliottWe both use behavioral science to help people do better at work, and we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.

Al ElliottAnd two out of three of us are devilishly good-looking. And you're not going to say which. Phil, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in threes— the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Seamless, seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil.

Crevan O'MalleyUh, we've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work.

Al ElliottAnd we talk about the behavioral science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.

Crevan O'MalleyIt is.

Leanne ElliottIt's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?

Al ElliottIt can.

Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?

Al ElliottI am. Go and listen to Lunch wherever you get your podcasts.

Leanne ElliottBut come back.

Al ElliottYeah, come back. Definitely come back because nudge isn't as good as this.

Crevan O'MalleySo come back.

Al ElliottI'll cut that out. Keep that in. Welcome back. Let's rejoin the interview and learn more about how you can use AI to augment your workflow and whether AI really will take your job.

Leanne ElliottLike the idea of AI giving value-add time back to the business by taking away that more kind of administrative transactional grunt work, if we're being honest. And I can't imagine there's many salespeople that that That's their favorite aspect of their job. I'm sure it's actually speaking to prospects and, and going through that process. So in, in, from your perspective, and, and I'm not sure if you can speak for HubSpot on this, but is that your— how you're approaching the integration of AI, that actually if we can get employees excited about using it and integrate it effectively, it's gonna long-term be better for everyone?

Crevan O'MalleyYeah, I think you touch on a really interesting point because, you know, we talked about the concerns and perhaps the anxiety that individuals feel with the sort of evolution of technology and where this next stage brings us. But actually, far from staying in that moment, and if that's a concern for your people, you've got to address it and you've got to communicate with them and make sure those fears are are answered and resolved. But actually what you want to do is move the conversation across to the opportunity, the potential, the inspiration. And ultimately, you know, I've worked in sales for a long time now with my partners in marketing and our service teams, talking as a go-to-market professional. You know, the, the ultimate joy in your work, the ultimate responsibility that you have is to serve your customers in the best way that you possibly can. And when anything gets in the way of that, from systems and processes, from an admin overhead, there's no doubt about it. When we do surveys internally from an employee satisfaction perspective, that's a big problem. And it's probably the biggest issue in any internal survey or any assessment of a company being a great place to work. You know, people can love the culture, they can love the brands, they can love the products. But God, there's an awful lot of admin and there's an awful lot of internal operations that we have to go through. And I kind of want to just do my job and talk to my customers and serve my customers. And I think if you can connect the opportunity that technology and AI can offer individuals in that discipline to do that job in a more efficient, productive, positive way, you're actually creating a work environment that's far more interesting and exciting for those individuals to work in. Again, like, we have research over the last 12 months. Mm-hmm. That suggests in any business today, and I'm talking about the GTM function, they probably have upwards of 15 tools, 15 different applications to do their job. The marketing function alone, I talked about the creation of content. On average, marketeers use 3 or 4 applications that potentially don't even speak to each other in a unified way. to create content that then has to be distributed. I mean, that is an enormous admin overhead on people, and that is one of the reasons why, in a survey of senior leaders, over 2/3 of leaders in the GTM function feel that they're not getting the value from their application investment, and that's because their teams are stuck. with connecting disparate systems and having to compensate for that problem. And ultimately, this is a problem of data. If data can be unified, if data can be aggregated and organized in a way that you get a 360 view of your prospect, a 360 view of your target audience, if the information is served up in a timely way, I think what you actually create is regardless of who the company is or the vendor, you create a space that the very best individuals will want to work in. They want to work in environments like that where they have the tools to do their job in the most efficient, positive way that they can. And then they're turning up for their customers with that kind of a mindset and an attitude. We're talking about the individuals here that can only be good for business and good for your customers.

Leanne ElliottI really enjoyed the message that came out from Grow and that's coming from, from HubSpot at the highest level, that AI isn't coming for your job, but somebody who uses AI more effectively probably is. And when I first heard that, I thought, well, that, that's an interesting challenge then for, um, training in development professionals or training development within a company. How, how is HubSpot approaching it? How Would you approach it if there's a business leader listening who's thinking, okay, I get it, but how do I make sure that I'm investing in my people to develop these skills? Or if an individual is listening, what can they be doing to build up their capability with AI?

Crevan O'MalleyYeah, I think it's a, it's a, it's a brilliant question because now we're back down, we're right down to the individual wherever he or she may work. How can you future-proof yourself? It's a It's a challenging environment we find ourselves in at the moment, but it is very much an opportunistic one for the individual to right-size their skills and capabilities to be able to show up to companies who need that skill set to take on the challenges that are there. Just to go back one step, what's the problem that we're trying to solve? The problem is You know, we talk about the growth formula. Even in the most difficult macroeconomic conditions, nobody is going into work going, well, you know, there's nothing we can do. You're challenged to go, okay, how do we grow? How do we solve the challenge externally and the problems internally to meet that challenge? And we talk about the growth formula being effectively the traffic that you create to your website or to your brand in whatever format that might be. the leads effectively, the conversion of those leads into sales effectively, what the sales team will do, the engagement part of the flywheel, and then your ability to retain those customers, make them happy, not just to like them, but deliver for them in a consistent way that they're getting value from that relationship. If you can break down those metrics and behind each of those metrics, there's a piece of the go-to-market function and enable those individuals to have the skills, the tools, and the capabilities to optimize the way in which they do their job, then I think you're going to reset the growth trajectory for your business. But it will be built on individuals who have got some of these newer skills. And I'll give you an example. When we talk about sales and we talk about conversion, like conversion rates are down, traffic is down, the ability to retain customers is down. It feels a huge challenge at the moment. I looked at some evidence recently that suggested about 50% of reps will hit quota in 2024, and that was closer to 70% a couple of years ago. So there's no doubt that people are struggling.

Al ElliottYeah.

Crevan O'MalleyBut I'm always impressed by if 50% are hitting their quota, i.e., 50 aren't, what are the 50 who are? What are they doing? You know this in your career as I do in mine. Even in the most challenged team, the most under pressure, there's always individuals who find a way. And I think what those individuals have is a creativity, a growth mindset. an ability to understand that you don't go alone in 2024 or 2025. You use cross-functional teams, tools, processes, and insights to allow you turn up in front of your customers in a more interesting, engaging way. And then you're into conversations that can result in doing business. And as an individual, I think what you have to do is have an open mind. to the technology that's out there, engage with it. I don't think anybody needs to be, you know, an intensely technical person. The way in which these tools are built today is a very intuitive user experience. That would be something that, you know, HubSpot would pride itself on in terms of our ability to serve tools to our prospects and customers that allows them to engage with them and allows them drive up user adoption. And if more people are using the tools that you've invested in as a business, then you're going to see better results because there's a consistency in terms of the application, the process. But as an individual, growth mindset, a creative attitude to You know, the cards that you're dealt. I have this sort of image in my mind where you can give multiple people the same set of opportunity, and there will always be individuals who will leverage those resources in a more efficient way, and we've got to learn from them. I think there's a creativity to those kind of individuals, and I think where that turns up with the enablement team Because ultimately, you know, everybody knows we have to train salespeople, we have to train individuals, we want to help them grow their business so they can get new skills. But there is an awful lot of people who would look on that function as something that is a time investment and have a kind of a conversation with themselves around whether the investment in time is worth the return. In HubSpot, we talk about creating a culture of learning and, and making it Yeah, not mandatory, because that's making people feel like there is no choice. We're trying to find what we call grow-getters. It's that mindset of individual that wants to improve, that wants to iterate, that wants to constantly challenge those cards that they've been dealt and play them in an ever more efficient way. So in 2025, it's a really exciting moment in HubSpot's journey. Personally, I work very closely with the go-to-market enablement team, the training team. We've an incredible leader globally in Annie Ingram. And Annie's plan for the future of that function is one that excites me as a sales leader, because the opportunity, the targets, the quotas, all the stuff that we'll get that was always the problem. Her and her team have a set of capabilities, a set of tools that they're going to train and enable us on that I think will amplify our ability to do our job. And I think the businesses that invest in their people from a skills and a training perspective will likely be the winners in 12 or 24 months.

Leanne ElliottI want to ask you about ethics. That's what I hear as a psychologist. That's what my world is talking about. Do we need to, you know, what do we need to consider when it comes to the ethics of using AI around the transparency of it, potential data privacy? There's lots of different facets to it, but I'm interested in terms of the, you know, the actual application of it? What, what is the tech, the tech world talking about when it comes to the ethical use of AI? And are there perhaps any misconceptions that, you know, us non-tech folk on the outside might have?

Crevan O'MalleyMy immediate reaction to that is, uh, I, I don't think it's something to fear. I think there's an understanding required of, of the technology In the same way that, you know, the internet created an unease, right? And where would we be without, without that today? When we talk about it in a European context, privacy is incredibly important. And trust in the vendor, trust in the person that you're buying a product or a service. from is absolutely key. And I think that's where our conversations need to start when we're talking to people. For sure, when we talk about AI and large language models and the ability to aggregate and get results from data in this incredibly speedy and efficient way, there needs to be a high degree of trust that the answers that we get back are actually appropriate and they're coming from the right place. I think that's something to be aware of. I think there is the potential for large language models to hallucinate and to give sort of ridiculous answers to questions. But like any technology that's evolving, I think the more we engage with it, the more kind of ability that the tech has to provide perspective and insight, which is kind of incredibly exciting that that's the next level. Then I think we'll begin to trust it more. But I, my attitude to it at the moment would be this is a tool that can drive better customer experience, not, not for the companies that have the best tech, but as the AI itself is an enabler for better customer experience. So what I mean by that is it's not about HubSpot having the best CRM. That's a judgment our customers will make. But the fact that we're allowing our customers the functionality and the use cases that AI can offer, that's incredibly exciting because they can use the tools in a more efficient way to get the outcomes that they want, which is a better service for their customers. It's not about having the latest, greatest technology and feeling satisfied with that. It's about adopting it and using it in a really efficient way. And I think I think, you know, we talk about the brands more generally, even in a B2C way, that survive and thrive. And there's an authenticity requirement, there is a communication requirement, and there's a trust that individual consumers and B2B consumers will have in the brands that they engage with. And there is a huge responsibility on the leadership within all brands, and it's something that we take very seriously to fuel that conversation in the right way, show up for our customers, our communities, and the markets with which we serve in the right way, make sure that we're investing in all the levels of security and data quality that's needed for our customers to do their job in the right way. And also, like we have, like any tech company, We have legal teams who are constantly making sure that the regulations that we may be required to operate under in different jurisdictions, that the experience that customers get in terms of the contracts that we have with them are appropriate, are fair, and that we're seen to do the right thing in all those cases. And I think that's something that, you know, brands that are considering changes in their investment stack because nobody's stepping into the technology arena for the first time. There's so much tech out there. But when you're making a decision on who to partner with or what technology to invest in, the, the trust and the authenticity of the individuals you speak to and the brands that you want to work with, that is probably more important now than it ever was. Because these relationships are part of your ability to unlock value within your business to drive your business forward. And I think that's something that we've spent a lot of time thinking about, and we're, we're trying to turn up in a way for our customers where that trust is built on into the future. And it's something that drives loyalty, drives retention, drives the renewal metrics that we constantly work on. If they drop, there's something we're doing wrong. And, you know, that's a good indicator for us that, you know, right now I think there's a lot that we're getting right, but there's always room to improve.

Leanne ElliottYou speak so enthusiastically about what you do and the tech world and HubSpot. I guess I'm curious, and if I may ask, where does this enthusiasm and passion come from? What do I need to understand maybe about younger Crevan to better understand the very impressive executive I'm speaking to today.

Crevan O'MalleyYou're very kind. Uh, I have goosebumps there talking about younger Crevan. Um, and also just in terms of a little bit of personal insight, I think for those who know me who might have the opportunity to listen to this, um, they would probably say he's pretty enthusiastic in most aspects of his, of his life. Look, I, I've decided that my professional career is going to be in sales. And, you know, what are the skills or what are the personality traits that you might need to have to not just be successful, but to actually survive in sales? Because it's a very difficult profession. And I think a positive attitude and enthusiasm for what you do is by no means enough. But without it, you know, I feel it's, it's kind of table stakes. You know, I think about the reasons I stepped into sales in the first place. When I was growing up and I lived in a rural part of Ireland, my grandmother, who would probably be the first business person that I was able to identify with, she ran a retail store right next door to where I grew up with my parents. My dad was her son. So watching her run her business from a very young age and kind of almost informally, there was no go-to-market enablement in her time, but watching her informally prioritize customers and being positive when they showed up and Not just focused on the service or the product in that case that they were looking for. I mean, this is a retail store, but actually connecting with them and trying to find out a little bit about what it is that they're perhaps challenged with at the moment, and understanding that yes, there's there's a commercial transaction here, but this is a person that when they walk out the door or log off the Zoom. They have all the same challenges that we all do. And right now, it's incredibly challenging for people to get this thing which we try to call work-life balance in the right order. My wife coined a version of that for me years ago that I always think of. There's no such thing. It's work-life blend. Like in work today, You give 8 or 9 hours of the best hours of the day to work. You've got to turn up to be as strong and as positive a professional as you can be. And sometimes those nearest and dearest get the version of you that's left over, which can be tired, which can be stressed. So having a positive attitude, understanding that you can control so much, but you certainly can't control everything. And the other thing is, I think in sales, we're constantly measured, you know, and whether it's a month, a quarter, a sale, a set of metrics, knowing that I've worked hard and my team have worked hard to deliver the best version of that target that we can. But that doesn't define us. That doesn't make us good or bad sales executives or leaders. There's a lot of other things at play. And I think there's a mindset and maybe a maturity and probably an experience to it that I try to bring to work and I try to bring to the teams that I manage in HubSpot. And the other thing is I enjoy my job and I enjoy working with the people that I do. And HubSpot, which is not news, I would hope, to many, has an amazing culture. And when you can find a space in your career, because it's so important to the self-identification and the positivity that you can exude into the world, that sense of self that your career gives you, if you can find a company that is relatively close, it doesn't have to be an exact match to your own kind of sense of values and the quality of work that you want to do, I think that's a pretty lucky space to be. So I have a lot of gratitude for that. But there's a lot of people in that situation, and there are some that aren't. And I think, know that there's choice. Ultimately, we get to choose our career path, and careers take a lifetime. So yeah, I definitely think the enthusiasm is probably coming from a lot of the above, and it's not one thing.

Leanne ElliottCrevan, thank you so much for your time. I've really enjoyed this. It's been such an interesting conversation. I know our listeners will want to more about you, where's the best place for them to go?

Crevan O'MalleyOh, I think, listen, from a personal perspective, our LinkedIn is like our shop window for us as individual professionals. I would welcome any and all connections and conversations if that was of interest to anybody. And from a HubSpot perspective, the hubspot.com website, and in particular Our Spotlight, a microsite updated since Inbound, has huge information on all of the more technical product stuff that we talked about early in the call. But I would finish with just saying, enjoyed the conversation. That's part of the makeup that I think excites me about what it is that I do. So to your listeners who have listened to this conversation, First of all, thank you so much. And if there is value in continuing conversations, I think that's what we're all doing. Everybody is just trying to progress in the moment that they find themselves. And if HubSpot or Crevan can be part of that conversation to any of your listeners in the future, we are ready and here.

Leanne ElliottWell, beautiful, beautiful note to leave it on. Crevan, thank you so much.

Al ElliottI love that interview, Leanne. I know you like AI and you use it regularly, but I thought you did a really good job of asking quite balanced questions and getting real answers from Crevan.

Leanne ElliottThank you. Thank you very much. I'll be honest though, I didn't need to do much of the heavy lifting. Crevan was an incredible guest, really open, very honest. And I think there are quite a few lessons to be learned here, both in terms of how to augment AI, how to leverage AI, and how to also create workplaces that are fundamentally human.

Al ElliottOkay, so if you like this, go and find Crevan O'Malley on LinkedIn. The link is in the show notes, or just search for Crevan O'Malley. And if you want to find out more about HubSpot's AI, then I think the link is hubspot.com/ai.

Leanne ElliottYeah, it is, and do go check it out. It is mind-blowing. We are living in the future. HubSpot, insane, insane what they can do. Um, and if you want to support us and the show, um, maybe consider posting us on LinkedIn. Maybe say something like, um, loving Truth, Lies and Work, really great interview with Crevan O'Malley. Um, I use HubSpot, I think it's cool. Yeah, that's it. And everyone will be really happy.

Al ElliottAnd make sure you tag us in and we'll make sure we repost it. Um, also try tagging in Crevan and HubSpot, and maybe HubSpot— hey, maybe HubSpot will repost your post.

Leanne ElliottMaybe.

Al ElliottThey don't do ours though.

Leanne ElliottNo, but that is not a conversation for now. We will see you on Tuesday for another episode of This Week in Work. Bye, I love you.