Episode 266 · 13 January 2026 · 54:43
Is Blue Monday actually real? PLUS! Autistic Barbie, career pivots and the science of 'wintering' - This Week in Work, 13th January 2026
Is Blue Monday actually real? PLUS! Autistic Barbie, career pivots and the science of 'wintering' - This Week in Work, 13th January 2026
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Word of the Week: Wintering
news roundup#wintering#word-of-the-week#self-care
Story 2: When is it really time for a career pivot?
news roundup#career-pivot#career-change#decision-making
Story 3: Mattel launches its first autistic Barbie
news roundup#mattel#autistic-barbie#inclusion#diversity
Truth or Lie: Is Blue Monday real?
truth or lie#blue-monday#myth#truth-or-lie
Workplace Surgery: culture diagnostics beyond surveys
workplace surgery#culture-diagnostics#surveys#workplace-culture
Workplace Surgery: building high-performance teams without burnout
workplace surgery#high-performance-teams#burnout#team-building
Workplace Surgery: when policies say balance but staff disagree
workplace surgery#work-life-balance#policies#employee-relations
Show notes
Is Blue Monday Actually Real? Plus: Autistic Barbie, Career Pivots & The Science of 'Wintering'
This Week in Work — Al Elliott and Leanne Elliott (Chartered Occupational Psychologist) kick off 2026 by asking a radical question: what if January isn't for pushing harder, but for slowing down? They unpack the concept of "wintering," explore how to tell when a career pivot is genuine readiness versus rumination, and celebrate Mattel's first autistic Barbie. Plus, in Truth or Lie: is Blue Monday actually real — or just a very successful PR stunt?
🔥 Stories Covered
1. Word of the Week: Wintering Coined by author Katherine May, "wintering" reframes the coldest season as a period of restoration rather than something to "power through." Drawing on coverage in The Times and insights from clinical psychologist Dr Stephanie Fitzgerald (author of The Gifts of Winter), Al and Leanne explore why January might not be the time for big life changes — and how seasonal rhythms, cold exposure, warm food rituals, and gentler movement can regulate mood and energy. Source → Katherine May → Dr Stephanie Fitzgerald's book →
2. When is it really time for a career pivot? New thinking from Tomasz Kamoroprezymyk on how to tell the difference between genuine readiness for change and endless rumination. With careers becoming less predictable and many people stuck in the "Big Stay," Al and Leanne explore why job-hugging is rising — and how understanding your real strengths can help you spot when fit has genuinely broken down. Key insight: people with an equal temporal focus (past, present, future) are much more likely to make a successful pivot. Source →
3. Mattel launches its first autistic Barbie Mattel has introduced its first autistic Barbie, developed with the Autistic Self Advocacy Network. Thoughtful design choices — including noise-cancelling headphones designed to reduce sensory overload and a tablet showing communication symbols — open up a bigger conversation about inclusion, neurodiversity, and what people grow up seeing as "normal." Leanne notes that representation matters: when kids see difference in the toy aisle, it shapes their expectations of difference everywhere, including work. Source → Jamie Cygielman (Global Head of Dolls) →
🧠 Truth or Lie: "Blue Monday Is the Most Depressing Day of the Year"
Every January, we're told there's a single Monday that's the most depressing day of the year. It sounds scientific. It feels believable. But does it stand up to evidence?
Al and Leanne break down where Blue Monday actually came from (a 2005 Sky Travel PR campaign built on a dubious equation from a psychologist named Cliff Arnall), what research really says about winter mood, money stress, Mondays, and post-holiday crashes — and where the idea falls apart.
The evidence for:
- Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) is real — reduced daylight consistently affects mood
- Financial stress spikes over Christmas (a study of 8,000+ adults linked unsecured debt to mental health struggles)
- Mondays genuinely hit differently — heart attacks are more common on Mondays, and mood dips do occur
The evidence against:
- The original formula doesn't hold up to scrutiny — it was marketing, not science
- Daily mood tracking studies don't support a dramatic Monday crash
- Blue Monday spread because it was useful — for selling holidays, not for understanding depression
Verdict: Blue Monday as a specific date is a lie. January strain and winter pressure are very real.
💬 Workplace Surgery
Three listener questions, tackled live:
- Culture diagnostics: "What actually works in a company culture diagnostic beyond satisfaction surveys?"
- High performance: "How do you build a genuinely high-performance team without burning people out?"
- Policy vs. reality: "If your policies support work-life balance but staff say otherwise, what's missing?"
(Got a question? Submit it via the connect link below.)
🎧 Coming Up Thursday
A brand-new expert interview with Beth Sherman — comedian and seven-time Emmy Award-winning writer — on how humour builds trust, rapport, and confident decision-making at work. If you've seen the Academy Awards, you've heard her work.
Connect With Us
Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
Expand full transcript
Al ElliottComing up this week in work.
Leanne ElliottWhat if instead of starting January with a bang, we start it with a whimper? We're looking at the radical act of slowing down, the restorative power of seasonal stews, and the surprising reason why a blast of cold air might be exactly what you need to regulate your mood.
Al ElliottPlus, how do you know when it's time for a career pivot? New thinking from Tomasz Kamoroprezymyk, Our presi-mitz explores spotting the— we'll come back to that name in the, in the main thing— spotting the difference between restless thinking and real action. Are you planning or are you just procrastinating, perhaps?
Leanne ElliottAnd Truth or Lie is back. We are taking apart Blue Monday. Is there a most depressing day of the year, or are January blues a longer problem? We have the evidence and the verdict.
Al ElliottAnd of course, in the Workplace Surgery, one business owner is on the hunt for a better way to diagnose company culture. They ask what actually predicts burnout and performance.
Leanne ElliottThis is Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a Chartered Occupational Psychologist.
Al ElliottMy name is Al. I'm a business owner.
Leanne ElliottAnd together we help you simplify the science of work and build amazing workplace cultures.
Al ElliottYou know what's coming next. We'll be right after a quick word from our sponsors. The dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems, and in our case, about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Al ElliottNice. Check out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses. Hello, welcome back. Yes, we have got a cold. We went to the UK and we got the lurgy. We've had it twice, really unfortunate. But I suppose in our, in our little world in Bosnia and Herzegovina, in our Bosnian bubble, then we don't really pick it up because we don't see that many people.
Leanne ElliottThere's less people, isn't there? You don't get crowds of people in the same space so often. But anyway, Happy New Year. I know you're, as a listener, probably well over this on the 13th of January, but it is actually our first day back at Yes, it is.
Al ElliottYeah, it is. I have to be honest, I had to ask Leanne to reteach me how to type this morning because I picked up my keyboard and went, what do I do with this? Oh God, I spent more time correcting my spelling mistakes, I think, than this morning sending my emails and replying to my hundreds of notifications.
Leanne ElliottHow many emails did you get? Right.
Al ElliottI hope someone who's cold emailed me isn't listening because I just, I got around about sort of 900.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottAnd I quickly scanned through for those people I knew, replied, and then just selected the rest of them and archived them. No, you didn't.
Leanne ElliottI did.
Al ElliottI thought it was important. Do you know what? Also, I noticed that we have an autoresponder on our email and we get lots and lots of pitches for guests, probably about 2 a day on average. And looking at all those, the majority of them came back mail unreturned when it went back to the— which shows that they're just, they're not real people.
Leanne ElliottBotty.
Al ElliottThey're botty.
Leanne ElliottYeah, I came back to over 1,000 emails as well.
Al ElliottLinkedIn.
Leanne ElliottYeah, and goodness knows how many notifications on LinkedIn. I've not even started to tackle LinkedIn yet and I'm only about a third of the way through my emails. So if you are listening and have got in touch with us, L or I or the show over the last 3 weeks, bear with.
Al ElliottWell, you say bear with, bear with because Leanne will reply. I won't.
Leanne ElliottYeah. And if it's important, email me.
Al ElliottOkay. It's on to your favourite time of the week, Leanne. It's time for the World of Words.
Leanne ElliottYes, I've missed it. It's been a while.
Al ElliottI know you talked over my intro.
Leanne ElliottWhere am I gonna put the jingle?
Al ElliottTell me, where's the jingle go, Lee?
Leanne ElliottAt the beginning?
Al ElliottYeah, we'll put it here.
Leanne ElliottCue the jingle.
Al ElliottOkay, my love, what have you seen?
Leanne ElliottI've got a new word.
Al ElliottOkay, what's the new word?
Leanne ElliottWintering.
Al ElliottOh, I like that.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.
Al ElliottIt reminds me of, there's a little bit in Blackadder, I think, where, um, I can't remember who's the main guy. Who's the, who's the, who's the main— it's Blackadder, isn't it? That's the name of the person.
Leanne ElliottI don't have to watch Blackadder.
Al ElliottThe clue was in the name of the show. Um, and he said, yes, I will. Something about wintering in Montego Bay, um, which sounded very nice. But so my thought of wintering is that you essentially very rich and famous people go off and they'll spend winter in a particularly sunny place. Is that right?
Leanne ElliottOh, that would be wonderful, wouldn't it? We used to do that.
Al ElliottWe did do that.
Leanne ElliottWe used to do that.
Al ElliottThose people who've been listening, if you, if you've listened to the original podcast, The Sideways Life, and then you've just migrated across to this one, then you'll know that for about 3 years we spent 3 months in Thailand and Southeast Asia.
Leanne ElliottGood times, man.
Al ElliottAnyway, so what does wintering mean in this context, Leanne?
Leanne ElliottIt's not, it's not that. It's not going out for, going off for a winter holiday. It was actually a term coined by Katherine May in her bestselling book called Wintering: The Power of Rest. and retreat in difficult times. So basically, it's about embracing the quieter, colder months instead of trying to power through them, or kind of like, you know, the January surge. We've got this, woof!
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottInstead, Kathryn's like, wintering should be a period of reflection. So a time to slow down, to sleep more, expand your spare time, let yourself rest. This came from her own life being knocked off course by illness and uncertainty. And she began to see winter not as something to endure, but something to lean into. And she puts it, doing these deeply unfashionable things is a radical act now, but it is essential. The book actually came out in 2020, but the idea has regained some momentum given the whole January trends of people resetting, particularly on social media. But in terms of wintering, people are swapping New Year pressure for cold weather rituals such as slower mornings, cosy meals, and gentle movement. Al, thoughts?
Al ElliottI like it. I like it. If you could go back like whatever, 500 years when there was no like no heating or whatever, even probably 200 years, maybe 100 years with no central heating. That's what we did as a people when it came to like winter. We would eat more. We would, the days were shorter. So you'd work, you know, during the day and then the rest of the time, like 3 quarters of the day, you'd be like snuggled up in bed or something, probably making babies actually. A lot of people, a lot of people.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottYou know, a lot of people born in the, in the autumn.
Leanne ElliottSeptember is still the most, um, the highest month for birth rates.
Al ElliottIs it? Yeah, so that's where we know what you're doing in wintering, you dirty, dirty people. Because I like this. Yeah, enjoy, enjoy, not endure January. I like that. I think we're doing that. It's a good job this isn't the video podcast, this particular episode, because I'm sitting here with a hat on and dressing gown and you've got your pyjamas on.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottAnd we've got all the heaters on in the house. Um, we live in a summer house.
Leanne ElliottIt's really cold.
Al ElliottReally, really cold. We live in a house which is meant for summer vacationing, and so it's not particularly good for winter. Anyway, why am I moaning about myself again, Leanne? I do this often.
Leanne ElliottYou do tend to, my love, but that's okay because you know what, this podcast is about you. At least 50% of it is anyway.
Al Elliott51%.
Leanne ElliottBut yeah, wintering. I actually saw this in the Sunday Times, um, so it came out over the weekend, um, and it did actually— the article was quite interesting and it included some wintering tips from a clinical psychologist called Dr. Stephanie Fitzgerald.
Al ElliottOh, I like that name.
Leanne ElliottYeah, strong, isn't it? Strong. Um, Stephanie authored The Gifts of Winter, um, which is a similar themed book released at the end of 2025. Basically, it's a guide to reclaiming our most unappreciated season. I'm not gonna lie, I think this is gonna be my January read. I think I'm gonna get this on Kindle.
Al ElliottOr if you're listening, Ms. Fitzgerald, Dr. Fitzgerald, Fitzgerald, then send us a copy.
Leanne ElliottYeah, that would be very nice as well. But yes, some of the tips that included from Dr. Stephanie was shifting your calendar mindset. So don't see January as the time for big change. Wait until April when there's more daylight and energy.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottThis is something we talked about last year in a hot take with Minatsuki Aiyer, who said that— she's a coach— and said the same, that we're bound to this kind of Western calendar when actually springtime has traditionally been much more of a time for change and resetting. Second, get outside even in the cold. She said that there is quiet growth happening, tree buds shifting light, and of course there is a science behind it as well, not only in terms of forest bathing or tree hugging, whatever you want to call it. There is something as well in terms of cold exposure. It can boost neurotransmitters and things like serotonin, dopamine, endorphins, all the good happy hormones that help regulate stress and mood. She also recommends hot seasonal food. You'll like this one, Al.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottStews, soups, roasted veg, not just for nutrition, but because they invite slowness and the kitchen becomes a warm, heavenly place to be. Social connection, always important, she mentions as well. And finally, she talks about normalising how we feel. So if we're feeling a bit flat, a bit sad, that's normal at this time of year. The key is not to push those feelings away, but to meet them with kindness for ourselves and in others. And things like, rather than kind of hardcore gym plans, if you're just not feeling it, try something like yoga or Pilates or going for a nice walk with your hound. So that's wintering. I will leave a link to that in the show notes.
Al ElliottI love that. I went for a— the second of our home walks. We only got back to our home country on Friday, so I went for a second home walk. Really enjoyed it. It's about 6K, so it's not a massive walk, but it's still nice to go out with the dogs. It was 2 degrees, no, 1.5 degrees when I went out this morning. And it was just nice. I came back feeling all like warm and yeah.
Leanne ElliottTingly.
Al ElliottTingly.
Leanne ElliottTingly cheeky.
Al ElliottYes, 100% above this. 100% for this. That's the word.
Leanne ElliottApproved.
Al ElliottApproved. Stamp. Bosh, bosh, bosh.
Leanne ElliottWhat have you seen this week, love?
Al ElliottOkay, so there's a guy called Tomasz Kamerow-Premjusic. Now I did a little Googling because I thought Premjusic sounds very Croatian, and apparently the name Premjusic does come from Croatian. Camorro comes from the Spanish and Thomas sounds German. So I would like— I should like to meet this person. I suspect they're a blend of very interesting cultures. Anyway, he's a professor at UCL and Columbia, and he's basically asked, or he wrote this article saying how to tell if it's time for a career pivot. Now that's—
Leanne ElliottPivot.
Al ElliottPivot. Pivot.
Leanne ElliottPivot.
Al ElliottApparently the most difficult scene to film in Friends.
Leanne ElliottReally?
Al ElliottThey said that they, uh, it took them hours because everyone just keeps Kept corpsing. Uh, so anyway, if you've not seen Friends, you've no idea what I'm talking about. It felt like the title should be more like, why some of us are stuck in careers we picked based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever. But that's probably not something that Fast Company would go for as a title. It's not that snappy.
Leanne ElliottSnappy.
Al ElliottBasically, he's making this point that most people worry about changing careers. Now, we're not talking about changing roles here. So a lot of people will change roles, but actually to pivot and just suddenly do a totally new career. You were a corporate accountant and now you've opened a dog trimming studio. Um, it's really, really rare because I think a lot of people worry about these career changes, um, which is a bit strange because you think about it, when you choose a career, most people just choose something arbitrarily when they leave university or leave school. They just go, right, this is what I'm going to do, and then they don't really change it. Um, even before AI became the hot topic, then this career predictability, as he calls it, was already crumbling He said there's globalization, economic shocks, the death of those lovely career ladders where you knew that, you know, your parents, if they stuck in a career in 10 years' time, they would be the boss or whatever, or in a better paying job. And of course, we have to manage our own careers now. So we constantly have to update our own skills. We have to absorb all the risk ourselves. And of course, AI did come along. Skills are disappearing, becoming obsolete because AI is doing everything. I saw something today. There's a brand new Claude code It's I can't remember what it's called, but it's basically it can access your desktop and you can say right go and tidy up my home screen with all the icons that are everywhere and it'll basically go and move more into into folders and everything. We are getting to scary scary times. So in fact sorry I'm confused by where I was looking at on my on my little notes Gallup this is what Gallup you know Gallup roughly sixty percent of employees feel emotionally detached at work and only one in 4 people strongly believe their job aligns with their strength. That is quite frightening, Leanne. What are your thoughts?
Leanne ElliottYeah, there's a big, big theme at the moment, isn't there, with what's called moral burnout, when our values are misaligned with our job, and that does take a toll in a similar way that, that burnout does. We get disengaged, we get exhausted, we get cynical. Um, so it makes all the sense. Is there more to this? Because it's something else that's springing to mind, but I don't want to jump in If you've still got more to—
Al ElliottNot really. I'll just summarize. We will leave a link to the article in the, in the show notes. Just sort of summarize it. He's basically— the article's saying it's not about changing roles, it's a proper career pivot. He's saying it's very, very rare, and most people only do a career pivot when they're really, really miserable. And they do come up with this, the— this, this thing economists are now calling the big stay, where people have gone from job hopping— one of our previous Word of the Weeks— to job hugging. Where they're staying stuck rather than settled. They're thinking about changing careers, but behaviourally, behaviourally, they're frozen. What were you gonna say then? It sounded like you've got a really good point here.
Leanne ElliottI think with the, with the, um, the big stay or job hugging, as it's also called, it's worth bearing in mind as a business owner or leader, just because you've seen a drop in attrition, so people leaving your business, doesn't mean that they're engaged. It just might mean that they're too scared to leave right now financially. Actually, because of the way the economy is. So don't mistake low retention for engagement. Um, the other thing as well, do you remember we covered it? I don't know when, maybe 8, 12 weeks ago, and it was about a study that looked into career pivots and what are the biggest predictors of people actually successfully doing it.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottUm, and it was actually taking action, so not, not procrastinating and actually starting to do something about it. And the other big factor I think as well was having a coach, having someone there to kind of talk you, talk you through it and work with you. Um, but yeah, and, and I think a big thing as well, isn't it, is having that, having that clear idea of what you want to do. And I think that's where the value of a coach can be. And I think where a lot of people get frozen is they know that they're not happy, but they don't know exactly what will make them happy or fulfilled or give them purpose in their work. Um, so I think having somebody to talk you through this can be, can be quite helpful.
Al ElliottYeah, absolutely. And I think I'm a big fan of the action thing. I've career pivoted Many times. I never thought I'd be a podcaster. I started off wanting to work on a farm, and I did. And then, and then I went into sales, and I went to pub management, and then I started a beer business. And then, yeah, I've just pivoted lots and lots of times. And I think the key— I'm not saying necessarily that this is— I'm doing the most successful thing, but what I found quite— what I found quite good was just, like you say, taking action and going, right, I'm going to try this as kind of like a side hustle for a little bit. So rather than saying, right, okay, I'm an accountant and I would love to be a goose farmer, then don't just, don't just go, right, I'm gonna hand my notes in and go and buy a load of geese. Perhaps go and work on a goose farm on the weekend or get some geese, just a few geese to start off with. Yeah.
Leanne ElliottGet goosing.
Al ElliottGet goosing. Spat on the microphone. Oh my God. I'm sorry. I really genuinely did spit on the microphone. That's grim.
Leanne ElliottI remembered actually what that other main bit of that study was.
Al ElliottCarry on.
Leanne ElliottIt was about where you, your, is that your temporal mind where you spend most of your time? Do you remember? It's like past, present, or future.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottAnd the people that had kind of an equal spread across 3 were much more likely to make a successful career pivot. If we get too stuck in the past or too stuck in the future, then it can, yeah, make us freeze in the moment. So practising things like understanding where you're stuck, practising things like reflective practice or mindfulness or positive psychology could be really useful. It's as much as a mindset, isn't it, as it is a practical career pivot tool.
Al ElliottIt is. And I think also a key thing, if you are looking to pivot, is that think about your fear of what people will say about you. Because I think that's all that was, what was kind of suggested in this, in this article was essentially a lot of people worried that if I did go and become a goose farmer, what would, what would people think? Would my status go down? Would my family hate it? Would people laugh at me for leaving a great job to go and, go and make geese go goosing? in their spare time. So, uh, and if that is the case, look, nobody's thinking about you really. They're too busy thinking about themselves. So my suggestion is just do it. Just enjoy it. Just live your life. Don't get to— don't get to 65 and go, I really wish that I'd been a pilot. Maybe pilot's a bad example, but I really wish I'd raised geese.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottMoving on.
Leanne ElliottYou go goose.
Al ElliottYou go goose.
Leanne ElliottYou've got this.
Al ElliottYes, you got this, gooser. Right, what else have you seen, my love?
Leanne ElliottMattel has launched its first autistic Barbie.
Al ElliottOh!
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottHow do you— Barbie's very much a, like, a visual thing, isn't it? So how do they make it autistic?
Leanne ElliottWell, I shall tell you. Yes, I shall tell you. So yeah, it was an announcement on Mattel's corporate website, picked up by a lot of different news outlets. I actually saw it in The Guardian and then went back to Mattel to see what, what the crack was. So yeah, the company this week has launched its first ever autistic Barbie. Apparently it's a new addition to their Barbie Fashionista range, right? Don't know what that is. Um, developed over an 18-month period in partnership, and I think this is important, with the Autistic Self Advocacy Network, which is a disability rights organization run by and for autistic people. Mattel says that the aim is pretty simple: representation through play. So the idea is that the more children who are able see themselves reflected in the toys they grew up with, that helps all children get used to seeing difference as being a normal part of the world around them. So yeah, in terms of how they did this, so again, I found it really interesting. So working closely with ASAN, which was the charity I mentioned, Mattel's design team focused on representing some common autistic experiences while being clear that autism is different for everyone and not always So for example, the doll's eyes gaze in a slightly angled way, reflecting how some autistic people avoid direct eye contact. She also comes with a pink finger clip fidget spinner—
Al ElliottDifficult to say.
Leanne ElliottYeah, that actually spins, noise-cancelling headphones designed to reduce sensory overload, and a tablet showing symbol-based augmentative and alternative communication apps, which many autistic people use to support everyday communication. Even the clothing, Al, was carefully considered. So the doll wears a loose-fitting purple A-line dress designed to minimize fabric-to-skin contact, along with flat shoes to support comfort and ease of movement. There is, of course, some comment from Mattel. Uh, Jamie Sigelman— I believe that's how you say her name—
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottWho has the coolest and possibly creepiest job title in the world. Al, would you like to guess Jamie's job title?
Al ElliottOh, is it painting the faces on the Barbies?
Leanne ElliottClose.
Al ElliottGo on.
Leanne ElliottShe's global head of dolls.
Al ElliottOh, God, can you— was it you and I went to look at a house once and there was just an entire room of dolls?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottIt's just not cool, man.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottOh, God. Anyway, sorry.
Leanne ElliottNothing scarier than a doll.
Al ElliottYeah, I totally agree. Totally agree. They look at you.
Leanne ElliottYeah. Anyway, Jamie says the autistic Barbie helps expand what inclusion looks like in the toy aisle and beyond, adding that every child deserves to see themselves represented in Barbie. And that was a whole thing around the theme as well, wasn't it? Kind of representation. And from Asansize, this is a charity, executive director Colin Killick has said the doll offers an authentic and joyful representation of autistic people, including the tools that help support independence in daily life. Uh, the launch also featured collaboration with autistic advocates, creatives, and designers, including entrepreneur Madison Maria, who was also a cast member on season 3 of Netflix's Love on the Spectrum. Have you come across this show?
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottVery lovely show. Um, she said the doll made her feel truly seen and heard. Um, so Mattel says it has linked the release to its ongoing research with Cardiff University, which has been running since 2020. The research suggests doll play activates areas of children's brains linked to empathy and social processing, with more recent findings indicating this may also support children who display neurodivergent traits. Al, thoughts?
Al ElliottInteresting. Were you a Barbie girl in a Barbie world?
Leanne ElliottDo you know what? I was a Cindy girl.
Al ElliottMy sisters were Cindy.
Leanne ElliottReally?
Al ElliottYeah, I think because they were cheaper.
Leanne ElliottYeah, I always thought that, like, I never— I always thought that I was the Cindy girl, but I think it must have come from my mum or dad or something. Right. Because I just had this belief as like a 3 or 4-year-old that Barbies were a bit snobby.
Al ElliottRight.
Leanne ElliottWhereas Cindys were a bit more down to earth and cool.
Al ElliottDid you ever take your Cindy and go and find one of your friends, perhaps Chezzy, with a Barbie and have a fight and see who won?
Leanne ElliottNo, I didn't meet Francesca until I was in high school, so we were kind of past doll stage then. Fair enough. Thank you.
Al ElliottThank you.
Leanne ElliottNo, I was a solo doll player. Says a lot about my childhood, really. Anyway, what do you think? It's not about me.
Al ElliottI, yeah, I think at first I was like, uh-oh, is this another one of those like weird things that corporates do? But the fact that they've brought someone on, the Assan that they were talking about there, who know what they're talking about, is cool. Um, representation, isn't it? Like, I see a lot more stuff recently that the BBC— I think a lot of people are talking, maybe calling the BBC and Channel 4 very woke for including people with disabilities in as actresses and actors. And sorry, I should just say actor, shouldn't I? Shouldn't say actress. Sorry, sorry, sorry. But a lot of people saying, look, I really liked that I was represented or represented in that particular programme. There's also regional accents in the UK. There's so many more regional accents. And so it's nice that someone from Sunderland who's got a very strong accent perhaps can go, yeah, I could still be on telly. Whereas 30 years ago, you'd only hear people from their home counties. So yeah, I— I think it's great. I think it's a good idea. I don't think dolls in general are a good idea. They freak me the fuck out, but I think it's a really good idea.
Leanne ElliottI also think it's a really good idea, and you nailed it out. It's about representation, and we know this from decades of developmental research. Children form these stereotypes around gender, around race, around ethnicity, around socioeconomic status really early. Like, we're talking like 3 to 6 years old. Like it's super, super early, and there's so many studies showing particularly around gender. Young girls will start associating things like computers and engineering and problem solving with boys at a very young age, and even if they enjoy those activities, they do start thinking this isn't really for people like me, and their confidence starts to drop. And similarly, in terms of the world of work, and you might be thinking at this point, what's Barbie got to do with the world of work? And again, what's about representation? If we think about autism, you know, autistic adults today often talk about feeling pressured to mask their, their behaviours, their preferences, to tone themselves down or to hide the support that actually helps them function. So things like headphones or fidget tools or different ways of communicating. So this type of representation at an early age now is going to be so important for when these children grow up and enter the workforce and just those whole social norms. Yeah. Shifting, and it has to start with children. And that's the thing, I think, when we think about EDI, it's not just an organizational problem, it's a societal problem. And it does start, um, with, with, with young children in education. And then we also know as well, we talked recently about the Gen Alpha survey and how 25% recognize themselves as neurodivergent, know somebody who's neurodivergent, expect there to be recognition and support for people who are neurodiverse in organizations. Um, so it's very, very topical I can see a lot of people cringing at this and calling it woke nonsense. I disagree. I think it's representation in action. I think it's quite a nice little story, actually.
Al ElliottYeah, I do too.
Leanne ElliottIf you're interested in Autistic Barbie, it is available now wherever, wherever people buy their Barbies from. Also, a doll shop near you. Also, in nice detail, Mattel says it will donate more than 1,000 Autistic Barbies. to specialist paediatric hospitals in the US, which I thought was quite nice as well.
Al ElliottLove it, love it, love it. Okay, so we're gonna take a short break, and after this we've got Truth or Lie. If you've not heard this before, basically it's where I put a question to Leanne and say, is this a truth or is it a lie? We'll see you in a second.
Leanne ElliottDid you know that the UK's number one management podcast— that's us, by the way— and the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same Podcast Network.
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioral science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good looking. And you're not gonna say which. Fel, host of Nudge, UK's number 1 marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in 3s— the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Leanne ElliottThe audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless. Seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. We've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioural science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well. It is.
Leanne ElliottIt's such, it's such a good show. Of course, Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
Al ElliottIt can.
Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?
Al ElliottI am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back. Definitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this.
Leanne ElliottSo come back.
Al ElliottI'll cut that out. Keep that in. Welcome back. Welcome back. It is time for Truth or Lie. This is the part of the show.
Leanne ElliottI feel like Truth or Lie needs its own jingle.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottOr like a, like a Who Wants to Be a Millionaire mood kind of ba-boom. Yeah, it should be perfect. Just loop that.
Al ElliottYes, I will do. The fact is though, actually, I'm currently wintering, so I don't have time to put together a jingle for this particular, but what I will do is come spring. I expect that. Yes, I will come up with one. Anyway, so the truth or lie is basically where I ask Leanne, is this a truth or is this a lie? I think today's truth or lie is, well, it's something you've probably heard for years. Every January you'll hear this. All the brands talk about it. Mental health charities do mention it. News outlets have loads of headlines around it. Apparently, there is a single day in January that's the most depressing day of the year. It's called Blue Monday. I believe it's about the 16th, 17th, is it?
Leanne ElliottYeah, I think it's technically like the 3rd Monday in January. So it'll be next Monday, which is the 19th, I think.
Al ElliottYeah, I got, I got told it was because that's when the credit card drops from Christmas. But so, Lee, is it true? Is there such— well, there is such a thing as Blue Monday, but is it just something that people, that newspapers have made up, or is there really a blue Like the most depressing day of the year.
Leanne ElliottI mean, it feels right, doesn't it? The 3rd week in January being just the worst.
Al ElliottYes.
Leanne ElliottBecause January is so dark and the weather is grim and it's really cold and Christmas is over and you're all a bit chubbier than you used to be. The credit card bill lands, New Year motivation has already kind of dropped off. So it makes sense. So when someone says there is a specific reason this Monday is just rubbish, it sounds Completely plausible. In terms of where it came from, it was actually popularised by a psychologist back in 2005 called Cliff Arnold, working with a travel company. He even produced a formula combining things like weather, debt, time since Christmas, broken resolutions, motivation, and just that nagging feeling that you should be doing something with your life by now.
Al ElliottHe didn't know— Cliff didn't know anything about wintering, did he?
Leanne ElliottNo, Cliff did not lean into wintering. But yeah, it looked very scientific. The equation actually looks really like Mathematically.
Al ElliottOccasionally.
Leanne ElliottYeah. So yeah, understandably, the idea spread very, very quickly. So that's where it comes from. But in terms of is it true or not, should we start with, start with case 4, Al?
Al ElliottYes. Yeah.
Leanne ElliottThe positive.
Al ElliottI think it is true.
Leanne ElliottIs that your prediction?
Al ElliottThat's my— well, this is just my thought. Yes, it's my prediction. Because yeah, you do get to that 3rd Monday and you're like, huh, which is why we took a week off last week.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottYeah. Sorry. Yes. Start with the coast 4. Yes.
Leanne ElliottSo, I think the first thing is there is lots of research that suggests that, that the foundations of Blue Monday are real. The question is whether they actually combine to make one truly uniquely awful day.
Al ElliottI wish you could see Leanne's face because she was like, proper, like, truly unique.
Leanne ElliottAwful. Awful.
Al ElliottAwful.
Leanne ElliottSo, I guess the first area of research to look at is around Light and mood. Seasonal affective disorder. I know you've heard of this, Al. SAD, which is just the perfect acronym.
Al ElliottPerfect acronym.
Leanne ElliottThank you. So one large body of research has looked at how reduced daylight affects mood. And it consistently shows, or consistently has been shown, that lower winter light exposure is associated with reduced energy, lower mood, and higher depressive symptoms. And more than that, meta-analysis of light therapy trials, that's when we get the data of lots of studies and analysed them together with One Question Mind, um, have shown that increasing light exposure can significantly reduce symptoms, which tells us that the reverse is also true, that less light makes things harder. Um, so yeah, January darkness does affect how people feel. That is true.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottSecondly, you mentioned it, Al, financial stress that does spike over Christmas. There are strong links to this as well, uh, linking debt to mental health. So there's a longitudinal study. What does that mean, Al?
Al ElliottMeans over a long period of time?
Leanne ElliottYes, it does. Uh, following over 8,000 adults, it examined unsecured debts, so things like credit cards and loans, and found higher debt levels were associated with higher depressive symptoms, even after accounting for income. Uh, the UK service data backs this up too. January consistently shows spikes in people seeking debt advice, which again fits that post-Christmas financial hangover. Next, post-holiday emotional dip. So, several psychiatric and public health studies have looked at hospital admissions and crisis presentations around Christmas. So, this is significant mental health episodes. One systematic review found that admissions often drop during the Christmas period itself and then rebound afterwards. So, the interpretation is basically that people hold things together over the holidays, then feel the emotional drop once normal life resumes. So, it's kind of a January crash.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottIt's something that clinicians see repeatedly.
Al ElliottKick those problems down the road.
Leanne ElliottIndeed. Yeah. And then there's also some research that Mondays do hit differently. And this is actually a really serious data point. So, trigger warning, I'm going to talk about suicide now. A large population study analysed over 377,000 deaths in South Korea across an 18-year period, comparing suicide deaths with accidental deaths to control for general weekday patterns. The researchers found that suicide risk was highest on Mondays and then gradually really declined across the week. The effect was strongest among people in their teens and 20s, where the probability of suicide on a Monday rose by about 10% higher than that on a Sunday.
Al ElliottThat's crazy.
Leanne ElliottAs age increased, the day of the week effect became smaller, but it didn't vanish. So, the authors described this as evidence of a real Blue Monday effect, particularly linked to the pressure of the week starting again. And this doesn't mean one specific Monday in January, but it just showed that Mondays, and especially in winter, can carry real psychological risk for some groups.
Al ElliottSo this sounds like, well, basically at this point I'm like, yes, Blue Monday exists. You've given me every piece of evidence, excuse me, every piece of evidence that Blue Monday exists. So is there a case against?
Leanne ElliottThere is a case for against. So first, the original Blue Monday formula itself, that equation, it doesn't really hold up scientifically. To be fair, even the original psychologist, Cliff, acknowledged that It was never meant to be a precise mathematical equation. It was actually for an advertising campaign for a travel holiday when you should book your winter break or book your summer break during winter. But of course, critics have pointed out that the variables weren't measured in consistent or meaningful ways, and that changing one thing can basically change the outputs of everything. You're trying to measure weather and what else was in there? Debt, distance from Christmas.
Al ElliottI feel sorry for Cliff because Cliff's obviously been brought on as a marketing or by a marketing company to Right, make this work for us. And he's gone, yeah, sure, there you go, that'll be fine. And then all the nerds jumped in and gone, that's not quite right. You haven't got the quotient for rainfall in there.
Leanne ElliottYeah. Exactly. Exactly, Al. You can always trust us scientists to just ruin something that's really catchy.
Al ElliottRuin our fun.
Leanne ElliottSecond, if we look at daily mood tracking studies, they don't really support a dramatic crash on a Monday. So one well-known set of studies followed people for months, asking them to basically record their mood day by day. When researchers looked at the data, Not people's actual beliefs, so actually how they kind of measured mood rather than people's belief of their mood, they found that mood on Mondays wasn't significantly worse than Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday. What did stand out though was weekends. So people generally reported better mood on Saturdays and Sundays. So Monday feels bad partly because it's compared to something better, not because it's uniquely terrible. It's just followed a high.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottAnd finally, yeah, Blue Monday spread because it was It was useful rather than necessarily being accurate. So the idea, as I said, didn't emerge from peer-reviewed research. It emerged from an advertising campaign. Over time, it has been reused by brands, campaigns, well-meaning mental health organisations because it creates that hook. It's a moment to talk about wellbeing. So is it a truth or is it a lie? Blue Monday as a specific date.
Al ElliottHmm.
Leanne Elliottthat is objectively more depressing than any other day of the year, that is a lie.
Al ElliottRight.
Leanne ElliottBut the factors behind it in terms of darkness, money stress, post-holiday, lower motivation, what we heard about suicide trends when it comes to Mondays, they are all real and well supported by psychological data. So I guess the only mistake is pretending that they peak neatly. On one Monday. I'm here for Blue Monday, and I'll tell you for why. It starts a conversation going at a time of year where there are genuine reasons why we are all struggling more in terms of mood, in terms of financial pressures, um, in terms of a whole host of things. So I think as a way of recognizing and starting a conversation that January is a high-risk period for mental health and wellbeing.
Al ElliottHmm.
Leanne ElliottAnd that support needs to last throughout January and beyond is, is really important and really effective. So if that is what is grabbing the headlines, that gets important conversations going, I am here for it. But Blue Monday as a specific day is a lie.
Al ElliottAlso, from a psychological point of view, you can kind of say, well, that, all right, we'll have that day as our most depressing day. So it allows you almost when you go through January going, right, okay, yep, Blue Monday's coming up. Okay, yep, that's gonna be really depressing. And then, and then when you come to like Yellow Tuesday, the one after it, the Tuesday after it, you might go, oh, thank God that's over. So you almost feel like, okay, everything's done now. My entire— you'll still be a little bit down because January's usually a little bit dull, isn't it?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottBut at that point, I just feel like it's a good point to mark in the calendar and go, right, that's your inflection point. From that point forward, you can be happier, allowing yourself to be happier.
Leanne ElliottAbsolutely. A temporal landmark, psychologists would call it.
Al ElliottJust real quick, if, uh, someone is an employer, or a manager, should they be thinking about this in terms of Blue Monday? Should they be thinking, I need to do something about that? Or is that a little bit like cheesy if they go, oh, let's have a Blue Monday, like anti-Blue Monday party or something?
Leanne ElliottI think if you wanted to use Blue Monday as an awareness-raising day around mental health and wellbeing, um, it can serve as a useful landmark, can't it? I think it's important for any business owner and leader knowing that This is going to affect you, and it's going to affect your team, and finding things throughout the day that might help. So, things that we heard around nurturing those positive relationships at work is going to be especially important now. Having regular check-ins with team members to see how they're doing is going to be really important. And things as well like encouraging your people to go outside during the day. We don't get many hours of sunlight in the Northern Hemisphere in winter. So, encourage your people to go out for lunch, to go for a walk. Organise that as a team thing.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottUm, to do. Um, light exposure is really important. Um, or go back to the wintering, you know, conversations around that, around self-care, uh, around different exercises to embrace. I think there's things to be, things to be aware of and things to be learned from this, and certainly things you can apply in organisations. It's going to have a positive impact on you and your team. Um, but again, I think if it, if Blue Monday serves as the day for this kind of awareness-raising event, cool, but it has to be an all-month, and really, let's be honest, an all-year-round.
Al ElliottOkay, well, thank you, Leanne. If you have an idea for Truth or Lie, then let us know. All the details are in the show notes, and you probably guessed our email addresses anyway. Okay, so on to the world-famous Weekly Workplace Surgery, where I put your questions to Leanne. Lee, are you ready for question number 1?
Leanne ElliottI am ready. You remind me of the gladiators then.
Al ElliottAre you ready? Contenders, on my first whistle. That's proper old school. Yes, and I apologise to anyone who's got Scottish descent for my terrible accent then.
Leanne ElliottAl is from Scottish descent.
Al ElliottI am of Scottish descent, and I cannot do for the life of me. My brother does an amazing—
Leanne ElliottYeah, he does.
Al ElliottAmazing Scottish accent. He can— he definitely can take the mickey out of my mother, who's got a Scottish accent.
Leanne ElliottShe doesn't like that.
Al ElliottShe does not like that. Okay, so this question is about needing a better way to diagnose a company culture. Right up your street, Lee. We are planning an organisational culture diagnostic for our company next quarter. We've done standard satisfaction surveys before, But they always feel superficial and don't seem to predict actual burnout or morale shifts. As experts, what actually works in a culture diagnostic? Leanne, what are your thoughts?
Leanne ElliottMy concern is we're not— we're talking about a few different things here.
Al ElliottRight. Okay.
Leanne ElliottSo you're saying that you want a culture diagnostic to predict burnout, which is an area of wellbeing, or morale, which is more associated with employee engagement. And culture, wellbeing, and employee engagement are 3 very distinct areas of organisational psychology. And this is the problem, right? Because we We talk about this stuff in ways that is either really complicated and we can't— nobody understands it, um, including myself when I read some, some journals, or in a way that is so generalized and simplified that we start to kind of cross over what all these terms are and what they all mean. So, I think in terms of to answer your first question, if you are looking for an organizational culture diagnostic, there are lots of different, different things out there. And this isn't an area in terms of culture diagnostic that I am— what I'd call my myself an expert in. I have run them, and I have helped clients understand the culture that they've got, and there are various ways to do this. My preferred method is following an audit by a psychologist called Testa, which basically has 5 different stages to it. So, it's about identifying the vision and mission of your organisation. It's about collecting a narrative of the desired culture. So, from a leadership team, what do we want culture to look like, and how is that Going to further our strategy. You then need to look at how we select an audit team. We then collect the data in various different ways. That'll include interviews and surveys and observations and document audits. And then we interpret that in terms of the reporting of it. The thing is, though, when we actually look at culture in terms of the kind of aspects of it from a psychological and organisational perspective, there's lots of different things to look at. So, a full-on culture audit is detailed. It's taking a couple of months at least because we're looking at things like The the general environment. So what is actually the physical aspect of the organisation? Is it an office? What's the layout? What's the design? What are the customs and norms of the culture? So the behaviors and expectations of the place. We look at events. What are celebrated in and how and why? We look at rules and policies. How are people disciplined? We look at accountability. We look at leadership behavior. We look at reward and recognition, training and development, communication. There are so many. different aspects in terms of a full-on culture audit. Um, yeah, it's huge. So, I guess my question at this point is, do you want a culture audit? Is that what you're trying to achieve here? Typically, culture audits are great if the organisation is very toxic, we're having lots of problems in terms of behaviour, lots of problems in terms of, um, policy or even law-breaking, or just a fundamental thing that your— the current culture of your organisation isn't furthering your— the mission of your So, it might feel very, very interdependent, very friendly, very helpful, when actually you want a culture that is much more independent, results-based. That, in those scenarios, a culture audit can be really, really helpful. What you've mentioned though, in terms of predicting burnout, predicting morale shifts, you're not going to find that in a culture audit. You're going to find that in either something that looks at organisational wellbeing.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottUm, or employee engagement. So, I would suggest you start with looking at what we call psychosocial risk factors within an organisation. So, basically, what are the aspects of the organisation in terms of relationships, in terms of how change is managed, in terms of how clear people are over what their role is and how that fits in with the organisation, um, and measuring those aspects to then be able to predict burnout.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottOr shifts in morale. You can either use something like the HSE Management Standards Survey, which is a completely free tool, or you're looking for a provider who specialises in predictive models of engagement. That's not Gallup, that's not AMP, whatever it is, it's not OfficeVibe. That is not what they do. They're the standard satisfaction surveys that you've used before, to use your words. An actual Predicting engagement is going to come through a psychologist, such as the work we do at Oblong, or there are other organisations out there as well. Or you can do it yourself using the HSE Management Standards Survey. So, a long answer there, but I think an important one that I want to kind of point out is there is a difference, a psychological research data difference between culture, employee engagement, and wellbeing. So, in terms of what you want to achieve, we need to actually understand what that is before we can recommend a tool. And this is a skip that a lot of organisations skip.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne Elliottis they'll go straight to the tool because they've heard it's good without actually starting to think about what it is they want to achieve. So, my thought is you don't want a culture diagnostic tool. You want an employee engagement wellbeing tool.
Al ElliottInteresting. Interesting. I think a lot of people who say they want to fix their culture, it kind of comes from either just the founder sitting there over Christmas going, oh, we need to, we need to get a better culture, or them worrying about what other people think of the culture, when in actual fact, the culture's the culture. You've always said the culture What's your definition of culture? It's really snappy and cool.
Leanne ElliottOh, from John Amici. Culture is defined by the worst behaviours tolerated.
Al ElliottAnd that's it. And so you don't really say, this is the culture and this is defining the culture. You just try and make the worst behaviours better and better. I mean, am I making any sense there?
Leanne ElliottYeah. I mean, we absolutely can design and influence culture, but it's a very, it's a very hard and complex and long-term and ongoing thing. If you want to learn more about that, I would definitely recommend that you follow Paula Brockwell on LinkedIn. Her organisation, she's an occupational psychologist, her organisation does specialise in culture and culture audits, and she does loads of different free webinars and masterclasses on it. So, definitely check that out if you are specifically interested in culture.
Al ElliottLove that. Love that. Okay. Question number 2, how do I build a high-performance team that doesn't settle for second best? Hi, Leanne. What is the best way you've actually found to achieve high performance out of your team? Not just mediocre. I mean, people who strive to be the best and won't settle for second. Is it a matter of just hiring— I'm smiling— is it a matter of just hiring the right high performers, or are there proven strategies to build this culture from within? Lee, I'm going to put a pound in you and let's see what happens.
Leanne ElliottAs we've just heard, there is a way to build this culture from within if you want a more results-driven culture. interdependent, um, culture, then yes, there are ways to do it. Um, in terms of if you want to do this through, through recruitment, um, as you've suggested, yeah, but I think it's— do you know what, this, this actually starts with you. If you want to build a high-performance team, that starts with understanding exactly what that means to you and exactly why that's important for your business and exactly what that needs to achieve and exactly how you're going to reward those people for it. So, in terms of, if we think about, as I said, those kind of psychosocial risk factors that are in organisations, or the pillars of culture that we use at ObLong, the first 3 are reason, role, and recognition. And whilst there is no, in our model, no one is more important than the other, and no, there's no order to them, these are the 3 that I think kind of serve as your foundation in terms of building any type of team. Because high performance is kind of a catch-all term, isn't it?
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottHigh performance could mean, could mean highest revenue. High performance could be getting the most people back into work. High performance could be curing diseases, you know.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottSo, I think the first thing is around reasons. So, what is the purpose of your organisation? What is it trying to achieve? What values do you need in your organisation that are aligned with that mission and reflect your values as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, as a leader? And then understanding in terms of high performance, everything you're gonna need to do in terms of of motivating these people is going to have to link back to that, that reason. And if there is ever dissonance or a mismatch between what you're saying and what this mission is, or what your organisation is doing and what this mission is, that's going to serve as a demotivator, and that's going to drop performance. Second, equally important, is role. And that is help making sure that your business is designed in a way that has the roles it needs to deliver this.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottSo, what does the individual job function do? How does that contribute? How is that performance measured? What type of person do you need to fulfil this job description in terms of their knowledge, skills, and abilities? That is, of course, going to depend on job analysis, and it all needs to link to this reason in terms of the mission of the organisation and the values that are going to facilitate that. And then it comes down to recognition, which will also include pay and benefits. If you want to work people hard— I'm getting the sense that this is like a sales-type organisation. It's about revenue, profit. These people burn bright, but not for very long. So, you're looking at probably an average tenure of 18 months to 2 years max. You're talking paying these people well in terms of performance-based pay. It's going to be high. We're talking like top sales organisations, recruitment consultant-type organisations where they can make bank, as the kids would say, in 2 to 3 years and then probably move on.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottOf course, you're going to get the people who will thrive in that environment and stay, and will actually more than likely move into management positions where the day-to-day pressure hustle isn't the same. But yeah, they're there. So, I think that's another key thing as well, is recognition. And that I alluded to as well also includes career development. Are you going to develop these people? Is there a space for them in the organisation long-term? Or is it really a case of, you're going to come into my organisation, you're going to do your job, You're gonna work really hard. I'm gonna pay you really fricking well, and I'm gonna wave you off with a wave and a smile after 2 years. So, those are the things I think about: reason, role, and recognition. And they're the things that you need to sit down and decide exactly what that looks like before you even think about hiring a team member.
Al ElliottLovely. Lovely. If you wanna learn more about the RX7, which those 3 are one of the— are 3 of the 7 Rs that Leanne's developed, Then just check out the show notes. You can actually book a call with Leanne and she'll talk you all the way through it. She loves talking about it. Okay. Question number 3 is about work-life balance. So this person says, my staff says we don't prioritize it, but my policies say we do. I'm a business owner with a team of 10. I genuinely care about work-life balance and I thought we were doing everything right. We have an 8:30 to 4:30 schedule, paid lunch, generous PTO, which is personal time off, is it?
Leanne ElliottPaid time off.
Al ElliottPaid time off. And Summer Fridays. More importantly, I have a strict rule: leadership does not communicate with staff after hours. So no late-night emails, no weekend texts. We keep work on work channels. Uh, apparently this person says, I even do quarterly one-to-ones specifically to check on workload and capacity. And yet in our last anonymous survey, several employees rated work-life balance as a low priority at our company. They didn't leave comments, just a low score. I am lost. What am I missing? It's a tough one, Lee.
Leanne ElliottIt is. The great thing about running surveys is you get feedback like this that people might not feel able to share with you confidently in that quarterly one-to-one. The thing that a lot of organisations maybe don't know, or, or the bit that they are missing, is that a survey is really just one part of gathering employee feedback, and it's not, it's not enough on its own. One thing that I always do with, um, with clients after we run a survey is then run Or even before the survey, depending on what makes sense, run focus groups. So, if we do it after the survey, in this situation, I would maybe get together, I mean, you've got 10, so I'd probably get them all together at once, or maybe 2 groups of 5, and go, right, these are some of the headline results from the survey. Let's just have a chat about them. Let's talk them through. What does this mean? What's behind it? Lots of kind of nice coaching questions. It's going to support discussion.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne Elliottaround why people might think, think that work-life balance isn't a priority. I don't know the answer. You're gonna have to ask your staff, but I will take a stab at why I think people might be suggesting that, that work-life balance isn't great right now. Your heart is in the right place. You're— you've got policies there that, that yes, we know are best practice, we know are typically very good for helping people.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne Elliottmanage their, their work and life. The thing that I say red flags, you have a fixed schedule at 8:30 to 4:30. You have a strict rule that leadership does not communicate with staff after hours. That's great, but what about people who maybe have caring responsibilities and need that time in the evenings to read or respond to emails? Or the people that would actually prefer an 11 to 7 schedule because they get to do the school drop-off and then somebody else will do the school pickup.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottIndividualisation is such an important aspect of designing any kind of work-life balance policy. So, really, I think these are going to have to be the questions as well in terms of what isn't working, what is too rigid, even though it's been set with the best of intentions, is just too rigid and is actually making it harder for people to integrate work and life. The final thing I would say with this as well is it's about understanding, as you do, that it is much about organisational structures supporting work-life balance. So, as you say, some kind of email policy, but also things like how do you help people to switch off from work? How do you promote the types of behaviours that will facilitate this transition, whether it be taking— if they work from home, taking a 10-minute walk after work, so it feels like there is this segregation between work and life in that day? It can also typically with these things be around workload, but in terms of the resources you have to do it. So, if you've got clunky policies, Yeah. clunky technology, that's going to add to it. And that's going to add as well to somebody's sense of a lack of work-life balance. Sometimes what we believe the problem is, it isn't. So, it might be that work-life balance is actually fine, but it's the resources that are clunky that are causing people the stress in their work life that spills over into their life life. And that's why they think they have a poor work-life balance. So, it's really as well in these types of feedback scenarios, making sure you're measuring everything and actually pinning down where the issue is, which is again why it's a good reason to include a psychologist because they're going to ask the right questions that are going to pinpoint the exact issue and following up the focus groups with any areas that you just need to gather more insights for.
Al ElliottIf you have a question that you'd like me to put to Leanne, well, you do have a question, I'm sure, but if you want to be anonymous, that's absolutely fine. Check out our show notes, you can get in touch with us and I'll put your question to Leanne. Leanne, I think that's all for now, isn't it?
Leanne ElliottIt is, yeah. We'll be back on Thursday with a brand new expert interview. We're gonna be joined by someone really cool, Beth Sherman. She is a comedian and 7-time Emmy Award-winning writer.
Al ElliottYou will— like, she's written— yes, you will have definitely seen the shows that she's written for. David Letterman. She's written speeches for Tom Hanks.
Leanne ElliottThe Academy Awards.
Al ElliottThe Academy Awards. Yep. So you definitely will have heard something which she's said.
Leanne ElliottYeah, she'll be here to share how she uses humour to build trust, rapport, and confident decision-making. You really don't want to miss that one.
Al ElliottNope, a little bit of a lighthearted approach for you during what, as we've found out, could be a difficult time of year because Thursday is just a few days away from this fictional Blue Monday. If you are struggling though at the moment, and you know someone who is, then we've left, left a list of mental health resources for you in the show notes. I think they're always in every, every show notes. So if you're struggling, As much as we take the mickey out of Blue Monday, if things are a bit tough at the moment, then just check out those show notes.
Leanne ElliottYeah, absolutely. Um, and you'll also find there links to us on LinkedIn, Instagram, our website, and how to get in touch with the show.
Al ElliottRight, we'll see you soon.
Leanne ElliottBye!
Al ElliottBye-bye.