Episode 63 · 2 November 2023 · 52:44

What Global Leaders Know About 2024: Secrets Unveiled

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What we're covering today
other#podcast-intro #agenda
Context for the four trends
other#trends #year-end #planning
The four priorities for 2024
other#priorities #2024 #planning
Priority 1 — Focus on mental health
other#mental-health #wellbeing
Priority 2 — Create inclusive workplaces
other#inclusion #diversity #workplace
Priority 3 — Develop a shared purpose
other#purpose #organizational-culture
Priority 4 — Have great managers
other#management #leadership
How to make this happen in your organisation
other#implementation #action-plan #organizational-change

Show notes

What Global Leaders Know About 2024: Secrets Unveiled

Truth, Lies & Work — Al Elliott and Leanne Elliott (Chartered Occupational Psychologist) bring you the third and final episode in their partnership with MAD World and Make a Difference Media. Featuring insights from leaders at Mars, First Direct, NHS England, L'Oréal, ACAS, and Amy McKeown, this episode unpacks the four priorities global organisations are betting on for 2024.

Just because you're not a multinational doesn't mean you can't think like one. Al and Leanne distil the wisdom from their conversations with six workplace leaders into four actionable priorities — from the business case for mental health to why "have great managers" isn't just a nice-to-have.

🎙️ The Four Priorities Global Leaders Are Prioritising in 2024

1. Focus on mental health It's not just a wellbeing initiative — it's a business imperative. Leanne and Al unpack why leading organisations are treating mental health as seriously as the bottom line, and why ignoring it will cost you dearly.

2. Create inclusive workplaces Inclusivity is more than a buzzword. Hear from Kimberley Ward at First Direct about her experience of reasonable adjustments, and why flexibility reduces long-term sickness — with data from the Society of Occupational Medicine to back it up.

3. Develop a shared purpose From NHS England to L'Oréal and First Direct, the most successful organisations rally teams around a common mission. Discover how purpose drives extraordinary results — and how it connects directly to safety, wellbeing, and customer outcomes.

4. Have great managers Managers can make or break a company. Leanne gets on her soapbox (and it's a good one) about why management is a profession, not a promotion — and why inclusive, compassionate managers are the ones who spot the signs early.

💡 Key Takeaways

Mental health isn't soft — it's strategic. The ultimate problem with not addressing mental health and wellbeing is that your people — and your business — pay the price.
Inclusion and flexibility are intertwined. Supporting staff with reasonable adjustments and flexibility isn't just kind; it reduces long-term sickness and drives performance.
Purpose connects everything. Whether it's protecting people's money at First Direct or saving lives at NHS England, a shared purpose ties wellbeing, safety, and customer service together.
Managers just need to care. Regular conversations, checking in, and spotting the signs early — that's what great management looks like.

🤝 Our Expert Panel

Justin Boxall — Transformation Change Lead at Mars
Kimberley Ward — Financial Inclusion & Vulnerability Manager at First Direct
Prabha Vijayakumar — Head of Vaccination Workforce & Equalities at NHS England
Malcolm Staves — Global Vice President Health & Safety at L'Oréal
Francoise Woolley — Head of Mental Health & Wellbeing at ACAS
Amy McKeown — Award-winning Workplace Health & Wellbeing Strategist

🔗 More From Our Guests

Connect with Justin Boxall from Mars: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-boxall-5777a637/

Connect with Kimberley Ward from First Direct: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberley-ward-she-her-79a824b1/

Connect with Prabha Vijayakumar from NHS England: https://www.linkedin.com/in/prabha-vijayakumar-3b909555/

Connect with Malcolm Staves from L'Oréal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/malcolm-staves-fiirsm-ficheme-7a89077/

Connect with Francoise Woolley from ACAS: https://www.linkedin.com/in/francoisewoolley/

Connect with Amy McKeown: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amymckeownuk/

More from Make a Difference Media:

Website & Newsletter: https://makeadifference.media/
MAD World Summit: https://madworldsummit.com/
Book Your Tickets for The Watercooler 2024: https://www.watercoolerevent.com/
Audio recordings of conference sessions: https://madworldsummit.com/

More from Malcolm on Well-being and ESG: https://makeadifference.media/culture/wellbeing-and-esg/

🎧 Listen Back to Truth, Lies & Work for More On:

Advanced EDI for Leaders: From Bystander to Ally — How to Avoid DEIB-Washing
Building Resilient Workplaces: The Triple Defence Approach to Mental Health in Action
The 4-Day Work Week: THE Trend of 2024?

📺 Watch the Podcast on YouTube!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3_hIyk9KjxJQ1lZWhiaqDw

Connect With Us

Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect

Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14

Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.

Full transcript

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Al ElliottThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.

Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.

Al ElliottNice. Check out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.

Leanne ElliottSimply creating workplaces where people feel they belong. Get that right, and you'll attract the very best talent in your industry. Hello, and welcome to the Truth, Lies and Workplace Culture podcast, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a business psychologist.

Al ElliottMy name is Al. I'm a business owner.

Leanne ElliottWe are still here to help you simplify the science of people and create amazing workplace cultures.

Al ElliottYes. If you're joining us in on YouTube, you'll see that Leanne looks like she's coming to you from outer space.

Leanne ElliottDo you look like I'm floating?

Al ElliottWe're halfway through creating a background, and so we just put a black background up for now. So, uh, if you are interested in seeing what Leanne looks like in space, then go to YouTube. Um, you'll, you'll find our channel searching for Truth, Lies and Work. Anyway, I'm excited for today's episode, and I'll tell you for why, Leanne. I do care about the trends that affect the workplace. Of course I do. And that's pretty much all we talk about because obviously, if you don't know, husband and wife live together, obviously. Um, and so when we chat, sit down for a gin at 6 o'clock, we tend to talk about work and, and it's around workplace culture. But I really like world, like, um, real life examples. So for example, one of my favourite books is something called Small Giants by, I think it's Bo Burlingham. Um, and, um, it just tells stories of how people built companies. Do you wanna get us started?

Leanne ElliottI do, but what are we actually talking about today, Al?

Al ElliottHave I not introduced us?

Leanne ElliottNo.

Al ElliottWell, I've done a, I've done a really shit job of this then, haven't I? So basically today we are talking about the 4 priorities that large organisations have for 2024, and you probably should have too. By the time you're listening to this, you will see that I've probably come up with a slightly snappier headline than that, but that's essentially what we are talking about.

Leanne ElliottAnd this is the 3rd and final episode for now that we will be bringing you in partnership with Mad World and Make a Difference Media, which is the all-year-round media platform that supports Mad World and the Water Cooler event. As you know, we were at Mad World a couple of weeks ago. We were at Water Cooler back in April. Water Cooler 2024 registration is now open. You get your tickets, we'll leave the links. All of these incredible people we met at Mad World, and we can't wait to introduce, introduce them to you. There are some really cool names in here, Al.

Al ElliottYeah, we got First Direct, a large bank from the UK, a subsidiary of HSBC. We've got Mars. Yes. The people who make the Mars a day, keep the doctor away. No, I can't remember. How was it?

Leanne ElliottA Mars a day helps you work, rest, and play.

Al ElliottThat's it. God, we're so old. We're so old.

Leanne ElliottDo you remember when Mars bars used to be massive?

Al ElliottWere they massive or were we physically smaller as children?

Leanne ElliottWell, both, but shrinkflation is real, man.

Al ElliottFellation?

Leanne ElliottI don't think you— Shrinkflation.

Al ElliottOh, I see. Sorry, I misheard what you said there. Moving on. Yeah, moving on very swiftly. Um, so Lee, your take on these 4 priorities that we've put together, what you're thinking?

Leanne ElliottYeah, what I think is really nice about these, these trends that, as you say, the big boys and girls are, are talking about and implementing in, in the perhaps more corporate world at the moment, is it does give us those examples, those case studies, those best practice guidelines. And, you know, small businesses, you can— I guess we always kind of sit in this place where it's like, I might not have the financial or people resources to do it exactly how L'Oréal are doing it, but I can take the core lessons from that and how to apply that in my smaller organization. And I think entrepreneurs are very, very used to that process. So I'd imagine there's a lot of business owners and leaders out here that are— that fully understand that, that this is, is how we, we look at case studies, um, in terms of, of people, practitioners, in terms of business leaders. I love the research and psychology side of it, of course I do, but ultimately psychology is about people. It's about the behavior of people. I'm not an academic, I'm a practitioner. That's why I will never have doctor in front of my name. I'll have chartered psychologist after my name. You don't know what that means, and that's fine, but basically it means I'm not an academic. I know I'm a practitioner and I work in the real world. I have managed both In office and remote teams. I've worked closely with people who I've never met in person. I've consulted with growing companies who've had to share, you know, their, their significant challenges with me. So I do have a real sense of what it's like to, to lead people in the real world and to drive change in the real world.

Al ElliottYeah. And I think as we run down to Christmas, which is coming frighteningly fast at us—

Leanne ElliottHappy November, by the way.

Al ElliottHappy November. Yeah. Happy first pinch and punch of the month and all that.

Leanne ElliottSomething about a rabbit's foot.

Al ElliottI don't really know. But anyway, happy, happy the 1st of November. Um, so as we are running down to Christmas, I think most of us are kind of excited about what 2024's got, but there's a small part of us that are probably quite pleased that 2023's over because it's been such an odd year. I mean, we've had, we've got wars ongoing, which are obviously very sad, but having impact as well on our businesses. Inflation is ridiculous. Interest rates are ridiculous. We've still got this hangover from the pandemic. Um, neither, none of us are quite sure exactly what we should be doing. Should we be hybrid? Should we be remote? Obviously, it's a discussion for another day. Tech companies have made huge layoffs over the last 12 months. It's been a tough time for a lot of people. And also, nobody really knows what the right thing to do is. But we've got you. So today we are bringing you these 4 priorities that the big boys and girls have got on their agenda for 2024, and you should too. Now, the good news is large organizations have, definitely have the headcount and the resources to be able to experiment with this kind of thing. So, Obviously, they're a bit more of the forefront in terms of research. Like people like Mars who've got thousands, probably tens of thousands of people who work with, work for them across the world so they can come up with these ideas. But you as a smaller business, 20, 200, 400, you're agile. You can come up, you can listen to this today, you can talk to someone tomorrow, and you can implement it on Monday.

Leanne ElliottYes. But before you make any drastic decisions, don't just listen to this and go, guys, this is what we're doing. Doesn't quite work like that. Um, just, yeah, take, take a, take a pause. Uh, but yes, at the end of this episode, you will know what you should be focusing on, why you should be focusing on it, that what and why have to be connected, and how to implement it in your organisation.

Al ElliottYes. So, let's go and meet our guests. Now, you may have heard some of these names on the pod before. Last week, we did do a kind of a roundup. I think we had about 8 or 9 guests on last week, but rest assured that what you're gonna hear today is you've never heard before on the podcast. So first of all, we're going to introduce Justin Boxall from Mars UK. In case you don't know, Mars is the largest privately owned company, I think, in the world, but certainly in America, and they own more brands than you think. So yeah, my name is Justin Boxall. I'm the Associate Health and Wellbeing Manager at Mars UK, which basically means I'm responsible for the occupational health and the wellbeing initiatives that we run at Mars. We are a very large pet nutrition companies. So brands that you'll have heard of like Whiskas, Sheba, Pedigree, James Well-Beloved, Royal Canin on the pet food side. We also deal in sort of horse care, fish care, et cetera. We've also got some fantastic food brands around Ben's Original, Dolmio, Seeds of Change, as well as the snacking brands that you'll probably be familiar with, whether it's Maltesers, Galaxy, M&Ms, Skittles, and all of the Wrigley's gum brands.

Leanne ElliottWe are also delighted to introduce Kimberley Ward from 1st Direct. We heard a snippet from her interview a couple of weeks ago on our Mad World episode, but this week she's spilling the tea on how First Direct do things. So my, my kind of back history is change development. Um, so I've got a very broad background in change delivery from, um, process improvement, Lean Sigma. Um, I'm a qualified Scrum Master for agile delivery, and I'm also a qualified project manager.

Al ElliottI sat down with Prabha Vayakumar from the NHS England, and she explained how the NHS is creating a great workplace regardless of ethnicity.

Leanne ElliottSo, I'm Prabha Vijayakumar, and I currently work as a Head of Vaccination Workforce and Equalities in NHS England, obviously just for the COVID vaccination programme. We also asked Malcolm Staves from L'Oréal— yes, that L'Oréal, you are worth it— what they're doing to reduce risk and improve the workforce.

Al ElliottI'm actually Malcolm Staves.

Leanne ElliottI look after health, safety, and wellbeing at L'Oréal.

Al ElliottI'm a Brit based in France. I've been in France now for 25 years, uh, worked for about 10 different companies, and I am a major Chelsea fan, just to let you know.

Leanne ElliottOkay.

Al ElliottWe also spoke to Françoise Woolley, who was on the Mad World episode a couple of weeks ago. You probably remember her, and we asked her what she's seeing from the sharp end of workplace wellbeing.

Leanne ElliottSo my name's Françoise Woolley. I'm head of mental health and wellbeing at ACAS. So I specialise in forensic psychology. I worked in prisons for a number of years and other criminal justice settings. Working with, um, all manner of offenders, some very high-risk offenders. Um, so I, I got passionate about mental health from, um, an, an early age, really. Um, just really seeing individuals and how they were not supported. And no workplace wellbeing conversation would be complete without the incredible Amy McCowan. We'll be hearing her take on things too.

Al ElliottBut the 4 things you should be prioritising in 2024 is number one, a focus on mental health. I know you've heard it before, and it, but it is everywhere. If you get onto TikTok, Instagram, anything where the kids are hanging out, the younger generations, you'll find that mental health is probably 1 in 4, 1 in 5 of the things that they post about, uh, in terms of the workplace will be around about workplace— sorry, will be round about mental health. So you need to know and get across this.

Leanne ElliottThe second priority is to create inclusive workplaces. Again, regular listeners, this will not be a surprise. Inclusion is no longer a buzzword. Diversity is no longer a buzzword. The fight for talents means younger workers will just leave if they're not in environments that embrace and nurture inclusion and diversity in this way. Plus, you'll get so much more out of your teams.

Al ElliottFabulous. The 3rd priority you should be looking at in 2024 is to develop a shared purpose. Now, it does sound a little bit surprising, this, that this has come quite so high in those priorities, but teams with a purpose have been proven to outperform those who don't. You don't have to be a huge company to have that, to have a purpose. You can— some of the small, best smaller companies in the world have just got a very clear Purpose.

Leanne ElliottAnd the 4th priority— and if this doesn't gain traction in 2024, I'm just gonna, just gonna give up. I'm gonna throw in my psychology gloves and go and live on a desert island somewhere where people and culture don't exist. Priority 4: have great managers, people. Train your managers. If you only invest in one thing, if you only invest in one thing in 2024, it should be the quality and competence of your line managers.

Al ElliottWell said, Leanne. Let's go and see what our guests have got to say about this.

Leanne ElliottSo the first priority for 2024, focus on mental health. If you're thinking, I've heard all of this before, then stop. Françoise from ACAS explains that mental health is the number one reason for absence, and it's costing you money. Yeah, I mean, absence is a huge problem, and actually, um, mental ill health is, is the one of the major causes of sickness absence at the moment. Um, and of course that has a massive cost to employers, um, in terms of kind of lost productivity, having to retrain new staff, recruit new staff. Um, so yeah, it is a huge problem at the moment. But it's not just a disengaged or an absent employee that's going to cost you money. If you fail to acknowledge the problem, you could run the risk of a tribunal, and that is hugely costly. Françoise should know. Her organisation ACAS deals with this day in, day out. I'm very passionate about providing support for mental health and giving guidance. And obviously working with ACAS now, more focused within the workplace. And we do see, we see the sort of hard end of things, if you like, where people come to employment tribunals and they bring cases of discrimination because their employer has not supported them with their mental health difficulty. And it is frustrating because there are so many things that people can do, that an employer can do to support staff. So I'm really kind of passionate about That, you know, giving guidance and, and, and giving awareness around how you can do that really.

Al ElliottBut the ultimate problem with not addressing mental health in the workplace and general wellbeing is that your team aren't performing at their best. This is a problem if you're an accountant, say, because you might make an accounting mistake, or if you're a creative, you might not be at your very best. But if you are operating machinery like they do in L'Oréal, this is a huge problem. Malcolm Staves is the health and safety guy for L'Oréal in France, and this is what keeps him up at night. And being a health and safety professional today is not the same as your image or your experience. You do have people like that that still need to do the checklists, right? But you also need to be more of a psychologist as well, for want of an expression. Unfortunately for those that don't get it, very often something has to happen in their lives that's quite negative. Maybe they lose a loved one, they have a major injury or whatever, and then they get it. And then They get on this road of, I'm going to say, individual culture development, culture transformation of, of an individual towards being interdependent and maybe start following a few more rules. Like, I imagine you follow the rules for speeding. You know, you're, you're always exactly below the speed limit like everybody else. But there's a reason why people do it, because, because they're human. But once you get fined, you may lose your license one day. It puts you on a different trajectory with respect to your own personal health and safety or wellbeing. And it's the same. It's the same. If a person comes to work and they're not at work in their head, they've been up all night, kids have been ill, they've had an argument with their partner, something's going wrong in their life, then they're going to be distracted at work. So should you give them a 5-tonne forklift truck to drive? Should you send them up ladders for working at height where you need them to be there present? And you know, so that's where the, you know, the well-being aspect comes in as well. It's not just the well-being as in, I mean, it sometimes annoys me, I'll be honest with you, how many hours sleep that you want and healthy eating, the gimmick things like fruit on a Friday and whatever. I mean, what we should really be doing is helping people see what is good for them and So that they can make their own decisions.

Leanne ElliottThe pandemic has had some upsides, although it did significantly impact our mental health adversely for many of us. The pandemic— we are at least now much more aware of our own mental health, and organizations have, I think, over time come to realize that it's not just an HR problem, it's a problem that every level of the organisation needs to address. At Mars, Justin came to this exact conclusion.

Al ElliottIt's all intrinsically linked, whether it's health and wellbeing, whether it's inclusion and diversity, whether it's people-business partnering, whether it's talent acquisition. It's all really linked. And it all— we all have to work together on that intersectionality to make sure that associates have the best possible experience from before they join us until after they've left us, and hopefully a very long time in between. We learned a lot from the pandemic, and we learned a lot about how people work, the sort of social importance of work, how much it means to people to connect, to get together, to collaborate. And as a result of that, we've developed a new sort of expression of what we mean by health and wellbeing at work. It's called Be Well Together, and it has the together right at the center of it because it does talk about that social benefit of health and wellbeing. So my health and wellbeing will impact the People around me that I work directly with, their health and wellbeing will impact me. And, you know, there's a, there is that whole social element of let's, let's be healthy together. Let's thrive together at work. The bottom line is, this is your bottom line of your P&L. Like, even if you deep down think mental health is a little bit snowflakey, sorry, Leanne, I know she's gonna slap me afterwards for using that word.

Leanne ElliottI thought we banned that word from the podcast, but carry on.

Al ElliottBut if you don't address it, it's gonna cost you and it's gonna cost you dearly, and it's going to cost you in ways you may not even have thought of, as Françoise Ramacas explains.

Leanne ElliottSo if you support your staff, if you value your staff, you care about them, and you acknowledge that actually they're individuals that have lives outside of work that might come into work with, you know, a variety of experience or issues, then, you know, you are going to get a workforce that feel valued, and you're going to be more productive. And, you know, actually, from a business sense, you're going to make more money or you're going to, you know, achieve better outcomes as a business. So I think a big issue at the moment is, is kind of retention of staff, isn't it? Retention of talent. And, you know, I think people are getting more picky now about where they want to work. And, you know, they're not going to choose an organisation that has a reputation of, of not supporting their staff. Why would they?

Al ElliottOkay. So the first priority for 2024 for you is to focus on mental health. Leah, what's number 2?

Leanne ElliottSo our second priority, if you were, if you would, if you were a snowflake hater that was triggered by mental health, then strap in, friend, because priority number 2 is to create inclusive workplaces. Inclusive organizations, big organizations have been on this for a while, but in 2024, the emphasis will also be on inclusion, not just about diversity. An inclusive workplace is quite simply somewhere where everyone feels included. I'm not sure, maybe you needed that definition, but I want to be crystal clear about something. Creating an inclusive workplace is not just ensuring you're diverse. In fact, diversity is the result of an inclusive workplace. It's not the definition of one. Inclusive workplaces are where people feel comfortable, they feel welcome, they feel accepted regardless of disability, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, or any other differentiator. Inclusive workplaces make people feel like they belong. And you remember us talking about the significant importance of belonging a couple of weeks ago in our Mad World episode. Now, maybe 20 years ago, employees would concentrate on just the ethnicity part of diversity. They'd be keen to show that they have a good mix of ethnicities, but more often than not, that was just for show. It was a tick box exercise. It's the same way that these big organizations had leadership programs for women as opposed to just inclusive leadership programs. If you're trying to tick some imaginary box to, to prevent bad press or prevent being a racist organization, employees are gonna see through that. Prabha tells us a story of when she came to the UK and how she encountered what she calls micro-racial aggression. Initially, when I came to the country about 20 years ago, First of all, I didn't understand. I couldn't read what microaggression is because I didn't know. Sometimes I can say ignorance is bliss. But as I kind of, you know, spent a long time in UK and worked in different settings, I could understand, oh, you know, that's not right. You're not supposed to say that, or you shouldn't have said that kind of thing, and take it in a very defensive manner. And I'm very itching to respond to that. The way how I perceive it, something around, you know, people say things in a, as a fun or slightly slipping the comments under the big context. You know, things like, oh, your English is very good. Where are you from? You know, and it's like, well, you know, I'm from India and our medium of instruction is English. Yes, there may be some accent issues in terms of how I pronounce certain words might be different than, you know, my white colleagues or, you know, people who have been born and brought up here. But now I'm in a different place. It's more around, you know, how do you react to those comments? It's different as well, because if If you do not react in a very defensive way and actually, again, kind of like almost like make it a joke. And I said, oh yes, that's right. You know, you know, in India we are just, you know, X billion of people and all that X billion people of medium of instruction is English. But, you know, something like that.

Al ElliottThankfully, this kind of racism is taken quite seriously these days by most organizations. But as Leanne says, being inclusive isn't just about avoiding racism. It's about creating a place where everyone feels like they belong. Kimberley from First Direct, as she explained, has got a hearing impairment. And so she said in a previous organisation, she made what she thought was a reasonable request and turned out to be perceived as very unreasonable.

Leanne ElliottI've had quite a number of negative experiences in education and working as well, where I have asked for reasonable adjustments. It was simple things like, can you just tell me where you're going to be standing just so I know where I can position myself so I can feel included in that. I can hear you. And would you mind maybe not turning around, facing the other way? And someone actually turned around and said to me, I can't make adjustments just for you. There's 40 people in this room. And I didn't feel my request was out of, out, you know, out there. It was just, where are you standing so I can sit myself in a way that I can be involved? And, you know, that had a massive impact to me and my mental health.

Al ElliottThankfully, when Kimberley moved to First Direct, she got involved in something called an employee resource group, ERG. You might have heard of that a couple of weeks ago on our Mad World because it was definitely a theme. But Kimberley said that First Direct are very open and supportive of her being in this group.

Leanne ElliottWhilst my role working in First Direct, I focus very heavily on our customers, I have a big role to play in supporting our colleagues as well. I get involved heavily in our employee resource groups, so focusing quite often on those with disabilities or care need responsibilities. So despite also having health Um, and disability myself. I am a carer for my partner who has long COVID, um, so it's been quite challenging for us whilst we're learning and adapting, um, and it's just being about flexible and having the time to do that. And I find First Direct absolutely fantastic. You don't need to completely change the way you do things to have an inclusive workplace. In fact, there's a term, reasonable adjustments, that summarises this idea perfectly. To make people feel Françoise from ACAS explains that by making these reasonable adjustments, you'll end up not only attracting and retaining great employees, but also getting more out of them too. So, I was speaking to someone the other day who has significant physical and mental health difficulties, talking about horror stories of where she used to work and, you know, asking for some very simple adjustments that would have a massive impact on her life. difference in her life. And her manager saying, well, if I do it for you, what about everyone else? You know, and her coming to work, being in tears a lot of the time and really, really struggling. She's now working for an employer who is literally completely the opposite of that. So she, it was interesting, she was saying to me that actually, if you look at the hours I work, it is less than other people I work with because my employer gives me time off for my appointments and paid time off for my appointments. But the output I produce is more, you know, because I come in and I feel valued. I'm able to kind of give my best to work. And she was saying that actually, because of that kind of culture of support, it's then passed on to her customers. So, that organisation has received lots of awards for good customer service. And that is because the staff are producing better work. They're interacting with their customers better because they feel valued. There's a misconception that actually to put in adjustments for somebody, you have to spend a lot of money. But sometimes it's just thinking about, you know, are there different changes to the work tasks? Is it a case of, you know, if somebody is having a depressive episode, do they need a bit of a break in terms of the workload? And that may well be temporary. And I think, you know, more and more now we're talking about flexible working, and actually that can be really helpful.

Al ElliottYeah.

Leanne ElliottUm, for some people in terms of having a bit of flexibility over when and, and how and where they work from, really.

Al ElliottAmy McCowan, one of our regulars on the podcast, is a very well-known advocate of healthy workplaces. In fact, she's worked with the European Parliament to create their strategy around mental health. She says it just boils down to being a bit more flexible.

Leanne ElliottWe've seen from the Society of Occupational Medicine flexibility reduces long-term sickness. And given that in the UK at the moment we've got more people out of the workforce with sickness than ever before, I'm really reluctant to rush back into that kind of working pattern that we had before, 'cause it just excluded so many people, women, people with caring responsibilities, people with disabilities, people with illness. Pre-pandemic, my partner is an internal audit partner, so they used to have 4 audits, audit committees a year that were always face-to-face. So people flying in across the globe, globe for these things. And my argument was always, why can't you do it remotely? And it was, oh, that was impossible. And then suddenly we had 2 years of working from home and magically they found a solution to this, right? So everything is always possible and when there's a will, there's a way, right? I think what we're at risk of at the moment is what works and what doesn't work and just slipping back into the old. There's definitely an argument about people and connection and some of that product creativity lost, and we all hate being on Zoom every day, but also we have a chance to really change a workforce that isn't working for the better for so many groups that weren't. So to summarize, creating an inclusive workplace isn't just a fancy HR term that business psychologists like me use. It's very simply creating workplaces where people feel they belong. Get that right and you'll attract the very best talent in your industry. Okay, enough about inclusion and diversity. I feel we've, we've covered that quite nicely the last few weeks. What is the third thing, Al, that we need to be prioritising in 2024?

Al ElliottThe third thing we need to prioritise is developing a shared purpose. Now, purpose might sound like one of these fancy things, always nice to have. We re— you know, oh yeah, we, we're working towards having a shared purpose. But if you've dealt with employees who don't have a purpose or don't share the purpose of the organisation, You know what it feels like as a customer. When was the last time you went somewhere and someone was really rude to you, or you said you wanted something and they were like, no, I can't do that? Compare it to that time, and I'm sure we've all got one, where someone went— an employee went above and beyond to, to, to, to do something for you, to solve a particular problem you've got. That Zappos springs to mind, that they were famous for going above and beyond. They sold shoes, but they also— someone rung up once and said, I need a pizza. So they found a pizza place, Googled it, found a pizza place, and got it sent to them. So the point is that they have a shared purpose. The purpose for Zappos was to create the best customer experience on the planet. The problem is, if you don't have a purpose, then number one, your employees don't really have a reason to be good. And number two, your clients and customers are going to realize this, and they're going to go to someone who does have a shared purpose. One of the most purpose-led organizations probably in the world is the NHS in the UK. You can see that they've got very difficult workplace. There have been some controversies in the past, yet still people turn up and they work. They do their very best for the person who's walked through that door who needs their help. They are purpose-driven. Now, Prabha is from the NHS England, which I had to ask her what, how, what that was and how it all fitted in. But she explained that even though they are quite far from the actual primary care that's given out, they still all share the same purpose.

Leanne ElliottNHS England, again, not— I wouldn't say report back to, but we are kind of like responsible for or liaise quite closely with the Department of Health and Social Care, Health and Social Care Department. And then on the top you have got the ministers, if you like, and then the government. But ultimately for NHS, everybody, wherever that we are, It's the patients are important and what works for the patient, how collaboratively and inclusively we work together to make, to provide good outcomes for the patients. I think we are definitely, definitely passionate about our business, which is basically patient care. I think everything revolves around that. So I think nobody can beat us in that. Having purpose provides us with individuals, with humans, as meaning. And that is a fundamental human need. And again, regular listeners would have heard us mention this in a bit more detail in our Mad World episode where we talked about belonging. So if you want to hear more about that, go back a couple of episodes. Having purpose feeds into positive actions, attitudes, and behaviors such as job satisfaction, organizational commitment, extra role effort, Purpose is the reason people stay at organizations. It's the reason they go the extra mile, and it's also the reason they experience positive well-being. But purpose is more than just vision. It's at its most impactful when we understand the purpose of the organization, we understand our role in mission delivery, and we have the resources available to us to do it. Reason, role, and resources go hand in hand. Malcolm, the guy in charge of health and safety at L'Oréal, is very clear on both his own purpose and how that then passes the purpose onto colleagues.

Al ElliottIf that one person dies at work, what would happen to the family? What would happen to your partner if you didn't come home at night? Then it shifts from, I need to work safely for L'Oréal, to I need to work safely for me, my family, because that is my sense of purpose. And once somebody realizes that, they become better health and safety ambassadors at work. And it's switching that equation. It's giving a meaning as to the why, to the sense of purpose of why we should work safely. And then maybe you'll follow the rules because you don't want to be run over by a forklift truck. You don't want to fall. So you'll start to understand the why behind the rules. Justin from Mars is the same. He said that the company is guided, the entire company is guided by purpose. Which has helped him to define what his purpose is. Then the third element, and a really important element for us at Mars because we are very purpose-led as a business, is live your purpose. So what is your purpose? What do you get up for? What chimes with your personal values? And how can you do more of that at work? Because people who are living their purpose and working towards their purpose are going to be more engaged, more inspired, and more thriving and flourishing more in the workplace. My purpose is that selflessness is a virtue. So I spent my first 20 years at Mars in sales and going through the sort of standard sales progression from running the North Birmingham territory up to sales leadership positions. But what became really apparent to me was I preferred developing others and helping others thrive more than I did selling products to customers. That realisation led me to move into the, into the human resources space and then into the health and wellbeing space, which is where I really feel I could make a positive difference and help our associates. We don't have employees, we have associates. Help our associates sort of thrive, flourish, and bring their, bring their best selves to work on a daily basis. Kimberley from First Direct explains that the purpose of the bank is central to everything they do at First Direct. And when they all have a shared purpose, everything else kind of just slots into place.

Leanne ElliottI think it's really ingrained in the culture. And it goes full circle from my perspective as well, because if you invest in your people, they're going to be thinking about loyalty to you as a brand, someone that they trust, they listen to, they are happy at work, they're comfortable talking about things. We listen to the things that they want to do. So, if they're interested in personal development, We will offer those opportunities for them as well. It's really taking on board that feedback.

Al ElliottAnd the cool thing is that as First Direct's primary purpose in business is to protect people's money, they have to build trust. And that kind of permeates automatically into the culture, trust and protecting people.

Leanne ElliottAs a financial industry, we are heavily regulated by Financial Conduct Authority and other establishments as well. So, You know, it's ingrained that people have to do learning. We have to think about lots of things like risks, protecting our customers in different circumstances. And it kind of crosses through into, you know, thinking about your people as well. So, if we're thinking about our customers, how can we provide amazing customer service to these people who are banking with us and they've invested, you know, their time, their money, and trust us to take care of them and their banking and financial needs? We need to be thinking about how we do that for our people as well, because if our people aren't happy, then they're not going to be happy.

Al ElliottYeah.

Leanne Elliottgoing to be providing that great customer service. So, it's spotting the signs where someone's not at their best, they're not maybe bringing their best self to work. It could be something work-related, it could be something at home. And it's really just thinking about how do we spot those signs? How can we talk to these individuals in our company and just give them the opportunities to speak as well? Because I think listening and just having that ability to talk to someone is really, really powerful. I think a few words of caution here for any business leaders that are listening. Listening and thinking about perhaps, yes, I need to look at purpose. Every business probably has a vision, which is essentially the, the written version of your purpose. Have a look at that. Do you still reconnect with it? Often that can change as our business grows or, or evolves over time. And if you don't connect with it, change it. Find a purpose that you do connect with. Then include your employees in the conversation. What do they find purpose in? How does this align, you know, the purpose of your business align with, with their values as an individual, because that mismatch isn't going to work either. That can cause something that's called moral burnout if we're not sharing our— or our own values aren't aligned with the organization we're working for. And finally, which is really a very strong word of warning, purpose alone ain't gonna do it. Purpose has to feed into each individual role within the organization. Each role needs to understand how they're contributing to that mission delivery, and they need to have the resources available to them to do that. That means manageable workloads. That means the right skills and training to do their job. You cannot just say, do you know what, everyone's got purpose, everyone believes in this, and therefore my business will continue to grow and I can bleed everyone dry for it. You probably can for a time, And, you know, without getting too into the, the politics of it all, we have seen that with the NHS in the past 12 months and the massive amount of strikes that have happened across different, um, types of practitioners, from nurses to consultants to junior doctors. Purpose will take you really, really far, but in itself, it's not enough.

Al ElliottWell said, Leah. That was spectacular. If you'd listen to— if you just stop listening now, fine. You've just got gold right there. Okay, so the third priority is purpose, a sense of purpose. Leanne, what's the fourth?

Leanne ElliottThe fourth— I was about to get off my soapbox, but I think I'll stay on.

Al ElliottYeah, yeah, I like it. I like it up there. Yeah, I like you.

Leanne ElliottThe fourth and final priority is have great managers. It is one of my favourite topics. You know, management is so important. Leadership is so important. If you want to make the quickest and biggest impact on your business in 2024, then train your managers to be the very best they can be. Managers account for about 60% of the variance in employee engagement, about 40% of the variance in well-being. Managers are culture keepers. Managers are motivators. Managers are quite simply everything, and they need to be trained to improve their people skills, not their technical skills to do the, the technical transactional elements of their job— their people skills. They need to be trained in empathy, in compassion, in communication, in conflict management, in coaching. These are the skills that make managers better and people happier. Not training your managers but saying you care about your people is like saying you're a vegetarian but you eat meat. It's simply not true. I'm sorry, but it's simply not true. If you do one thing, for the love of RuPaul Charles, train your managers. Yeah.

Al ElliottI love Soapbox Leah. I think she speaks a lot of sense.

Leanne ElliottI'm gonna take a breath and hand over to Kimberly. Kimberly from First Direct. First Direct clearly invest in their managers. Let's hear more. My line manager, he just listens to what I have to say. It's quite often I don't want or need him to do anything. I just need to feel safe in a space that I can get something off my chest because That's really, really powerful, is being able to open up and talk about what you're experiencing, what's on your mind, because I find if you hold on to that, that can cause problems for you in the future. So, I faced a lot of adversity, and I know we've talked about my health challenges as well, but from a mental health perspective, my dad actually committed suicide 15 years ago. And one thing that kind of was powerful at the time then, that he didn't really have anyone to talk to.

Al ElliottMm-hmm.

Leanne ElliottThere was a lot of judgment back then. I think, you know, people weren't really open to talk about wellbeing, mental health. It was just a new thing. And I think in some cases, there's still a little bit of a taboo about it, but people are starting to open up, and being able to talk about it is what helps. And that's something that we have ingrained in our business and in our culture. We don't talk about our staff as staff. our agents. They're our people, and we describe them as amazing people. They provide fantastic and amazing customer service, and that's embedded right through from our frontline colleagues right through to senior leadership. And everybody has a voice, and we listen to that. And there's lots of updates that come out from our senior leadership, and our people really do hold them accountable. So, if they're not happy and they don't like what they're hearing, they will be quite blunt about that with our CEO. But he takes that really, really well, and he will be really honest with our people. and talk and explain, you know, this is why we are doing something. And when you have that opportunity to really talk and listen, it really— people really listen and take that on board. And it's like, okay, I get what you're saying now.

Al ElliottIt feels weird, but First Direct and Mars are almost like in lockstep as they— as we're going through this, because they totally agree and they do exactly the same thing. Here's Justin to explain a bit more. We're really, really conscious of the importance of good mental health at work. So that's where Our focus is mental health and energy, and we're developing packages, resources, a lot of support to help line managers help their teams to make sure that we create an environment where it's safe to talk about mental health, where there's no stigma attached to mental health, where it's okay to not be okay. And then once those conversations are happening where they're needed, we've got really good resources that people can go to for help. quickly, easily, and get the help they need. We don't really— it's less important where they get the help as long as they get the help. And when I asked Justin about, well, how do you create the business case for this, which, let's be honest, a lot of us in organizations have to create a business case for these kind of things, he just said, we don't bother. Mars know that this is really, really important. Fortunately, we've moved past the need to justify a business case. Our leaders get it. Our leaders appreciate that the most important asset that our business has is its people. The happier, the healthier, the more engaged, the more connected those people are, the better productivity is, the better innovation is, and frankly, the better work is and the better results we'll get. So fortunately, the people that have come before me have largely done that job for me, and I don't have to justify myself, justify my costs, or come up with a business case anymore. It's, Justin, what can you do? How can we do this? How can we go faster?

Leanne ElliottDid you know that the UK's number 1 management podcast, that's us, by the way, and the UK's number 1 marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?

Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioural science to help people do better at work.

Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.

Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good looking. And you're not gonna say which. Phil, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in threes—

Leanne Elliottthe HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

Al ElliottSeamless, seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. Uh, we've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioural science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff, and do some big things about how this affects the worlds of politics, business, and brands as well.

Leanne ElliottIt is, it's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that will be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?

Al ElliottIt can.

Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Robert from NHS England believes that a great manager is both inclusive and compassionate. It's how you treat people, um, and that's the essence of it. Without any prejudice and judgment on whatever the differences one may have than me, for example. And also thinking and believing and actioning that everybody's ideas or comments or feedback is valuable and everybody brings something to the table and really actively listening. And even, even if you disagree or it's completely different from your views, that's what I think. It's being inclusive and compassionate. But at the same time, it's kind of like I've said, getting things done. So it's great to have different opinions. It's great to include everyone. But, you know, how do we move forward as a team or as an organization together is kind of important as well.

Al ElliottOkay. So you're at this point now thinking, well, that would be lovely, but how the hell am I going to get my managers to be these superhumans that you seem to be describing? Well, the good news is they don't have to know everything straight away. Françoise from ACAS has some reassuring words for you.

Leanne ElliottThere's a lot of responsibility put on managers to do a lot of things at the moment, keep business running as usual, and then support staff during a time where actually, you know, there's a lot going on with the cost of living, with having come through a pandemic. So we do try and simplify things. And I think, you know, sometimes managers, you know, often they're scared of mental health. And what we say, and what we provide for our guidance, which we've just produced on reasonable adjustments at work, is that actually it's about good management skills. So, it's about checking in with your staff regularly, having those conversations, and actually saying, look, I'm not an expert in your mental health, but tell me, how is it impacting you? What can we do? What can you do? How can we work together? And together I think that's a really important point. and getting advice, you know, either from ACAS or occupational health to help kind of support you with that as well.

Al ElliottIn short, she explains, we just need managers to care.

Leanne ElliottManagers that have regular conversations with staff, that can check in with them and start to spot those signs where perhaps they're struggling or finding things difficult, and then be able to have those kind of conversations about how they can adapt workload or other adaptations to kind of support them before they go off sick. Good managers are rarely surprised by an absence, by resignation. Good managers see it coming and they mitigate the risk. Like any good leader, like any risk in your business, you plan for it, you anticipate it, you scenario plan it, you mitigate the risk. If you're a manager or a leader and you're not sure about how to have these types of conversations, you're not alone in this. Go to HR, go to your manager, go to whoever in the company is responsible for training and employee welfare. Ask for training opportunities. Ask for a list of services to signpost people to. You're not meant to have the answers or fix a problem. You're meant to facilitate the conversation and point people in the right direction. If you're still not sure where to start, please do get in touch. We know some awesome training organizations and support services. If you are listening to this and even just have The tiniest bit of butterflies in your stomach thinking, I need to step up my management game. Congratulations, my friend. You are already in the top 20% of people leaders for even feeling that, because what you're feeling there is empathy and accountability. You've totally got this.

Al ElliottOkay, so I know we've featured some big companies here. I know we've talked about some big topics, and I probably, I know it probably sounds a little bit overwhelming. I just wanna say to you, take, like Leanne says, Take a breath. This is what you've got 2024. You've got an entire 12 months to get on top of this, and it's likely you're already good at several of these things. You're probably 80% of the way there on at least one. And if you're a smaller company, remember, you can implement this tomorrow. You can listen to this today, write some notes tonight, implement it tomorrow. You're not the NHS. Justin from Mars, which is a big company, has got some reassuring final words for you. Our owners are the Mars family. We don't have to answer on a quarterly or half-yearly basis to external stakeholders per se. So the business is able to make those long-term decisions for the benefit of the business and for the benefit of those of us that work within the business. I think that's the real opportunity. And because it's family-owned and the family really care, the family wants us to do this stuff. The family knows that our best assets are our associates. And right from the family, right from the leadership on down, it is how can we help people thrive? How can we help people bring their best selves? What are we doing in the health and wellbeing space? What are we doing in the inclusion and diversity space? What are we doing in the sustainability space? Because the business has been going 100 years. We want it to go on for another 100 years and then another 100 years. And in order to do that, we need to bring in great people, we need to keep great people, and we need to develop those people to their full potential so that they can do their absolute best for the business. And what underscores all of that is, is their health, their wellbeing, and their safety to innovate, their safety to, to talk about what's important to them, why, and how it can help the business.

Leanne ElliottYou don't have to get all woo-woo about this or start mandating changes. Just do your best to create a workplace where people want to be. The rest takes care of itself.

Al ElliottThere's no yoga on the roof at 7:00 AM or anything like that. But people are allowed— we have 5 principles that guide us as a business: quality, responsibility, mutuality, efficiency, and freedom. So every associate is encouraged to take responsibility to do what will energise their day. So is it walking the dog? Is it meditation? Is it heading off to the gym at lunchtime? Whatever it is, people are encouraged to take that responsibility for For, for what works for them.

Leanne ElliottOur regular listeners will be starting to see a lot of patterns. They'll be starting to see that actually there's not, there's not, when you actually break it down, we don't talk about that many different things here on the podcast. We talk about typically 3 or 4 core things that then can kind of, you know, span out into, into different nuances and detail. And I think this is the thing to remember what Al was saying, you know, try not to be overwhelmed. There are so many different things that business leaders might be asked to do or expected to do, but let me reassure you on this. If you focus on the mental health and well-being of your employees, if you create an environment that fosters psychological safety and inclusion, if you develop a shared purpose and give people the role and resources they need to deliver that mission, and you have great managers It's kind of it. It's kind of it. The rest will get more mature and professionalized as you grow as a business, as you get bigger, but that's pretty much it. You probably won't need anything else in terms of people and culture apart from a good employee insights tool to measure the impact and return on your investment. And that just is just good business sense, right?

Al ElliottAbsolutely. If you're interested in such a tool, then Just so happens we have one. If you're interested, then just go into the show notes. You'll see there'll be an email for Leanne or I, and, uh, just drop us an email about the RX-7 and we'll explain everything to you. So let's just summarize and remind you of the 4 things you need to be concentrating on in 2024. The first is focusing on mental health.

Leanne ElliottThe second is creating inclusive workplaces.

Al ElliottThe third is developing a shared purpose.

Leanne ElliottAnd the fourth, let's say it together, everyone. Have Great managers. If you've got any feedback, any ideas for episodes— should say shout out to Jeremy, one of our lovely listeners who got in touch with me, um, this week about a potential great episode idea. So yeah, any feedback, any ideas, any thoughts, questions— if you are overwhelmed, get in touch. Our email is in the show notes. Have a look at our business website, oblonghq.com. You can actually book in a free 30-minute call with either Al and I on that. On that. If you are feeling a bit overwhelmed or not sure where to start, um, yeah, get in touch.

Al ElliottAnd if you want to join the public discussion, just go to LinkedIn and search for Truth, Lies and Work. You'll see we're all over it. Okay, so I think that's another episode. Anything else to add, Lee, before we go?

Leanne ElliottNothing else to add other than I guess you've got this. I know, I know I can get a bit angry sometimes, and I'm sorry, but I was saying— wasn't I saying to you last night, I was like, if people just listen to what I said, that I wouldn't have a job. Like, my job would be redundant. Um, I'm so— in one hand, I'm glad it's not quite yet, but still, you know, I'd find something else to do. Um, but anyway, yes, no, thank you to our incredible guests. Thank you again to all of the team at Make a Difference Media and Mad World for their support in promoting these 3 special episodes. And we will be back next week with a brand new founder story. Who are we talking to, Al?

Al ElliottI'm gonna keep it a secret. Because I'm excited about it. But if you're on Twitter, you probably know him. He's all over Twitter.

Leanne ElliottElon Musk will be here on the podcast next week. Could you imagine?

Al ElliottCould you imagine?

Leanne ElliottYeah, we, uh, shit go down on that one.

Al ElliottYeah, I don't think he'd come back for a second time, I think, after he'd spoken to you. All right, um, just lastly, if you did enjoy this, just can you do us a favor? Can you click subscribe on, on whichever podcast app you're using? Um, and then also automatically download future episodes because number one, we want you to hear everything we put out. And number two, it does help us in the rankings because if you download it and more and more people download it, we appear higher and higher in the charts. So thanks for listening. We will see you next week. Bye for now.

Leanne ElliottBye. Spilling the tea about how, how Did you not read that?

Al ElliottDid you just read it out loud?

Leanne ElliottI didn't read the introductions.

Al ElliottSay what you want.

Leanne ElliottJust want to be crystal crystal clear about and some about the little ba ba ba ba ba ba. I can't get this out.