Episode 02 · 12 July 2022 · 29:17
How to Boost Employee Retention: Essential Strategies for Business Success
How to Boost Employee Retention: Essential Strategies for Business Success
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What this podcast is about (and who it's for)
Meet Leanne — Business Psychologist and co-founder of Oblong
The 'F word' (and why engagement matters more than ever)
From Mad Men to modern leadership — how engagement has changed
The 4 pillars of employee engagement (the overview)
Pillar 1 — Strategic narrative (and why it gives you goosebumps)
Pillar 2 — Engaging managers (and the 60–70% variance stat)
Pillar 3 — Employee voice (the root of engagement)
Pillar 4 — Organisational integrity (no say-do gap) and how to implement all 4
Show notes
The 4 Things You Need to Build a Team That Actually Cares — with Leanne Elliott
Hosts: Al Elliott and Leanne Elliott — Business Psychologist and co-founder of Oblong
Building a highly engaged team might sound like a daunting task. But according to Business Psychologist Leanne Elliott, there are only 4 things you need to get right.
In this episode, Leanne breaks down the four evidence-backed pillars of employee engagement — from strategic narrative to organisational integrity — and explains why disengaged employees are costing the UK economy an estimated £52–70 billion per year.
But beware: as Leanne says, "If you're experiencing issues in your organisation and you think it's your people, stop seeing them as a problem — instead see them as the solution. They are central to that solution."
🧠 The 4 Pillars of Employee Engagement
Leanne walks through the four evidence-backed pillars (originally identified in the Engage for Success movement) that every organisation needs to get right:
1. Strategic Narrative It's not just a mission statement on a wall. It's leadership giving people a compelling story about where the organisation is going — and why their work matters in getting there. When done right, it gives you goosebumps.
2. Engaging Managers Research suggests that managers account for 60–70% of the variance in team engagement scores. If you do nothing else but hire and develop great managers, you'll move the needle more than any other single intervention.
3. Employee Voice This is the root of engagement. When people feel heard — genuinely heard, not just "listened to" — they bring their whole selves to work. It's the difference between employees who comply and employees who contribute.
4. Organisational Integrity No say-do gap. Promises made are promises kept. When leaders model congruence between what they say and what they do, trust follows. When they don't, cynicism spreads fast.
💬 Key Quotes
"If you're experiencing issues in your organisation and you think it's your people, stop seeing them as a problem — instead see them as the solution. They are central to that solution." — Leanne
"This isn't fluff. This isn't nice to have. This is a massive economic problem." — Leanne, on the £52–70 billion cost of disengagement
"If you do nothing else in your business, but you have great managers, you're going to see a huge difference." — Leanne
🔗 Resources Mentioned
- Engage for Success — the movement behind the 4 pillars framework
- Dave McIlroy — referenced for research on the cost of disengagement
- Nudge Podcast — hosted by Phill Agnew, part of the HubSpot Podcast Network
📧 Connect With Us
Want a chat with Leanne about how you can build an amazing workplace culture? Email: podcast@oblonghq.com
Got feedback, questions, or future guest suggestions? Email us: podcast@oblonghq.com
Or head over to our website that talks all about building a great workplace culture.
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
Expand full transcript
Al ElliottThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more. Nice.
Al ElliottCheck out hopspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
Leanne ElliottIf you're experiencing issues in your organisation and you think it's your people, don't see them as a problem. See them as the solution. They are central to that solution.
Al ElliottHello and welcome to episode 2 of the Truth, Lies and Workplace Culture podcast. I'm Al.
Leanne ElliottI'm Leanne.
Al ElliottAnd just to give you a bit of context, this is a podcast for generally service-based industries who have employees and they want their employees to care as much about their business as they do. Is that a fair summary, do you think?
Leanne ElliottI think that's a perfect summary.
Al ElliottCool. Okay, so what we're talking about today is— I'm quite excited about this one because I like practical application. So, what we're going to talk about today is the 4 things that you can do to improve your employee engagement. Now, we talked in episode 1 about what is employee engagement. I'm going to ask Leanne in a second to summarize why listeners should care about employee engagement. But before we do, let's just introduce ourselves a little bit more formally. So, you are Leanne. I am.
Leanne ElliottNext question.
Al ElliottSo, Leanne is the co-founder of Oblong, which is a consultancy which is based around engagement culture, recruitment, and management of great people.
Leanne ElliottYes, it is. So, I'm a business psychologist. I've been working with small businesses throughout my career, the odd large business as well, such as DWP, the NHS, on a consulting basis. But really, my experience has shown me that to have success as a small business, to have growth as a small business. It really comes down to creating a team that cares as much about your business as you do.
Al ElliottAnd so I'm Al, the other half of Oblong, but my background is all about sales and marketing. That's what I've been doing for 140,000 years. I've also started businesses, run businesses, had businesses go bankrupt, which was another story for another day. But I think what you'll see, the format of this is that very much I'm going to be asking the questions. I will not be providing any kind of expertise because that's Leanne's job, because Leanne has letters after her name that are longer than my entire name. She's a very clever woman.
Leanne ElliottI'm not sure your name is really long.
Al ElliottThat's true.
Leanne ElliottI think maybe the average person, but Mr. Two Names in the middle.
Al ElliottShould we, should we tell everyone what my stupid name is?
Leanne ElliottGo on then.
Al ElliottSo my real name is Alastair David Elliott. Dallas Robert Elliott. There you go. Do with that what you will.
Leanne ElliottSounds very regal.
Al ElliottI wish I was like Alasdair Dallas Robert Elliott III or something.
Leanne ElliottThat would be cool.
Al ElliottAnyway, let's get back to this. So, uh, you take pride in your work. You're a service-based industry. You take pride in your work, and of course you do, but you should also take pride in your people. And you need to do that by ensuring you create an environment that ensures that your people are engaged. Shall we start with a very quick, like literally 90-second summary of what employee engagement is and what happens when you don't get it right?
Leanne ElliottYes. So if you want a more detailed explanation, go back to episode 1. If you're starting in episode 2, you rebel, I like you already. But maybe go back, find out a little bit more about employee engagement. But you just— you're right there, love.
Al ElliottI didn't expect that. I like that little riff.
Leanne ElliottJust took a sip of water. So yes, go back and listen. But if you can't be bothered, fine, you're busy person, I understand. In a nutshell, employee engagement is something— it's a phenomenon within your business, and it's about making sure that you are creating an environment that is nurturing the right employee attitudes, thoughts, feelings. That's going to translate into employee behaviours, and that's going to translate into business performance. As one of, or I guess, probably the prominent voice in the psychology world and employment engagement, Dave McLloyd said that employee engagement is a workplace approach Resulting in the right conditions for all members of an organisation to give their best every day. They're going to be committed to their organisation's goals and values, and they're going to be motivated to contribute to organisational success. And the bonus, it's also going to enhance their own sense of wellbeing.
Al ElliottSo, one of the things that Leanne said in a previous podcast or a previous episode was that she hates the F word, and it's not the one you're thinking of.
Leanne ElliottIt's the— I love that word.
Al ElliottWe've had a discussion whether we should use it on the podcast. We're only episode 2. Let's just Pause. Um, but that's the word fluffy. And I think that a lot of people, myself included, and possibly you who's listening, is that you think of these things as like a nice to have. But there's a direct correlation, particularly in service-based businesses, between engaged employees who want to create amazing work and, um, and profit and scalability. I mean, imagine if you had 30, 40 employees who every single day they came into work and they thought about either the better, a better way to do what they're doing, or a better, better work they can create, or how they can push the business forward and help you scale the business to where you want to be. We're talking about real direct-to-bottom-line impact here.
Leanne ElliottAbsolutely. And even the quickest Google search is going to show you that employee engagement has been empirically, scientifically, directly linked to organize better organizational outcomes, from increased profitability, higher customer satisfaction, more growth, more creativity, more innovation, reduced turnover, higher wellbeing, therefore reduced absenteeism, and the list goes on.
Al ElliottSo, think back to Mad Men. If you've watched Mad Men, if you're in the marketing advertising industry, I'm sure you've seen it. What made them want to stay till 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock, work on a campaign, work on the actual idea? Well, it was down to engagement. They believed in the direction of the leaders. And although I'm sure that's an— actually, that's a great podcast episode.
Leanne ElliottThere's a fine line there between engagement and coercive leadership. But, but yes, it was effective in motivating its people.
Al ElliottI think it was interesting, the episode where they injected everyone with LSD. Was it LSD or something?
Leanne ElliottYes, but then microdosing is also a thing in the creative world. Another topic for another day.
Al ElliottSo let's get back to the topic for today, which is the 4 things you can do to improve employee engagement. That's not easy to say. So Leah, do you want to start with number 1?
Leanne ElliottYes, just to give a little context before I dive into number 1, the reality is there is no one-fit model of assessing employee engagement within your organisation, and particularly if you're a small organisation, I believe it's very important to understand the unique drivers of engagement within your business, particularly in digital businesses, creative businesses, or, you know, even businesses that are recruiting more entry-level roles, they're likely to have a, a higher demographic of millennial, Gen Z workforce. So people kind of age 38 and under.
Al ElliottSorry, I was about to ask you to define Gen Z and millennial, but—
Leanne ElliottSure. Yeah. So millennials, I think, are 1980 to '94, um, and then Gen Z is a generation after that, so '95 to I can't remember, but 20-something. But the people, Gen Zs, are now the people that are entering the workforce and having quite the impact. They're going to have slightly different drivers of engagement. So, for example, we found in a client recently that corporate social responsibility was really important to this demographic. So, it is important to look in your business and find those unique drivers of engagement.
Al ElliottThat's said.
Leanne ElliottThere is research that's been done, and I'm going to reference my bezzie mate Dave McLloyd again. I've met him, would love to. Dave, if you're listening, give me a call. Um, but he did a, a really fundamental piece of research into employee engagement. It's actually commissioned by the UK government back in 2009. Do you know why that was commissioned, Al?
Al ElliottUh, no, I don't know.
Leanne ElliottIt was commissioned because it's estimated That disengaged employees, which we know are around 70% of the workforce, claim to be disengaged.
Al ElliottThat's 70s?
Leanne Elliott70. Yeah. The cost of that is estimated between— be between £52 and £70 billion per year.
Al ElliottWow. That's slightly more than you got paid last year.
Leanne ElliottOnly slightly. But, but yeah, it's a massive economic problem, which is why this isn't fluff. This isn't nice to have. This is fundamental to business success. Which is why the UK government commissioned this report. And what McLloyd found, he spoke to lots of different organisations, small public sector, private sector, massive corporations, and he found that there are 4 general areas that organisations can concentrate their efforts to improve employee engagement.
Al ElliottAnd just to check, this is applicable, not— this isn't just the IBMs and the Facebooks of the world. This is applicable to someone who's got 20 employees.
Leanne ElliottEven more so applicable, I think, because when you think about a larger organisation, and we go back to that analogy of the boat last week, And if you didn't listen, I'm not going to explain it. Go back. But if we think about that analogy again, the more people that you have rowing forwards, those people who are disengaged are going to potentially have less disruption or less impact in a larger business, potentially. In a smaller business, if the vast majority, if 70% of your workforce are disengaged, You know, you're talking, you might have 4, 3, 4 people that are rowing forward in your boat and the rest aren't. So, I think it's even more imperative that small businesses take note of employee engagement.
Al ElliottBrilliant. So, let's go get into the 4. So, do you want to, are you going to list them off in 1, 2, 3, 4? Are you going to go one explanation? Well, why don't we, do you know what I quite like? When, when you hear the 4 and then you hear the context behind them.
Leanne ElliottSo, I'm going to give you the, the kind of the, the psychological terms that were given to all the, you know, the, the terms of research you gave, which some make sense, some don't, but we'll go back through them. So the first, first enabler or driver engagement in your business that you have control of as a business leader— I think that's the important thing to mention, is that you have control over this— the first one is strategic narrative.
Al ElliottStrategic narrative.
Leanne ElliottStrategic narrative. The second is engaging managers. The third is employee voice. And the fourth is organisational integrity.
Al ElliottSo, shall we go through these one by one?
Leanne ElliottYes. So, strategic narrative— that's a difficult word— strategic narrative is really about leadership. It's about vision. It's about empowering people. It's about creating a vision that people can buy into, that believe in, that provides them with purpose, provides them with meaning. They understand the organization, where it's come from, where it is right now, and where it wants to go. Um, and I think there's a really great— and we've talked about this a lot before in terms of vision, right? Is it though? Is it not just something like a mission statement you write down? Does anyone really look at it? The reality is when it's done well, that translates to all levels within the organization, and there's a great Great story that's been used, you know, across, across, um, research and business when it comes to explaining the impact of vision. Um, it's about JFK when he visited NASA, um, when they were trying to put a man on the moon. And he spoke to various different people and various different employees, different levels. And he spoke to the janitor, the person who cleans around, scrubs the toilets. And he said to him, What's, what's your, what's your role here? And the janitor turned around and replied, I'm here to put a man on the moon, sir.
Al ElliottThat's so cool. Gives you goosebumps, doesn't it?
Leanne ElliottIt does, because there's such a clear vision and mission and such great leaders that are making sure this is translating to all levels of the organization that even somebody who isn't in a technical role, they're not literally going to be the person that enables that, But their role within that organization is still so critical, and they understand that. They bring that purpose into themselves, that what's my role? To put a man on the moon.
Al ElliottSo let's just translate that then. So, um, let's just say that you are a web design agency, you own a web design agency, and there is someone in there whose job it is to do the accounts. So if I understood this correct, that what they're saying is if you're— if the idea of the web design agency is to create the most effective lead generation websites that they can possibly do, possibly create for clients, then the person who just literally counts the numbers at the end of the day is ensuring— perhaps you might say, what's your vision? What's your— sorry, what's your role? My role is to ensure there's enough cash in the business so that the amazing designers can go and create amazing websites. Is that— have I got that right?
Leanne ElliottYeah, but I think you can even take it one step further than that if you've got an organization that has such a clear vision. I remember doing some preliminary interviews before we launched engagements with a client, and I was chatting with somebody who'd had various roles in the business, been there for a number of years, and currently wasn't in a management position. I asked what his role was, what the purpose of his role was, and he answered me, and it was a finance agency. He said, my role is to help business owners sleep at night. Did you know that the UK's number one management podcast— that's us, by the way— and the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioural science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good-looking. And you're not gonna say which. Fel, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in threes—
Leanne Elliottthe HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless, seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. We've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioral science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that. It is.
Leanne ElliottIt's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
Al ElliottIt can.
Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?
Al ElliottI am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back.
Leanne ElliottWe'll see you next week.
Al ElliottDefinitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this, so come back. I'll cut that out. Keep that in. Wow. Yeah, that's cool.
Leanne ElliottReally cool, because, because that person understood that whilst they may be in a very technical role and too removed from the customer, which is the business owner, everything they do is fundamentally contributing to the mission of that organization. And the mission of that organization was to help business owners sleep at night because they know they've got the finances to achieve what they want to achieve with their business.
Al ElliottSo I'm taking from this as an owner of a few businesses before, and I've embarrassingly written a few, a few mission statements, and they've just been a bit bullshitty. They haven't really had any kind of practical application. So I'm taking from this that if you have a very clear mission statement, that can be summed up and replicated and what's the word when you vocalize? That's the word. And vocalized by every member of staff in the, or every member of the team, then you all have this shared vision and you, and this is what do you fancy psychologists call this bit?
Leanne ElliottStrategic narrative.
Al ElliottStrategic narrative. So that's number 1. What about number 2?
Leanne ElliottAnd I think just to mention one thing on that strategic narrative as well, is that it goes beyond just having a, a good vision or mission statement. It's then about how the, the changes you make, either operationally or process, or even just in terms of the terminology that you use in your business, can impact this. So for example, I worked for a very progressive organization in welfare to work that was founded simply through frustration of seeing, um, people who were benefit claimants not being treated with— as a customer, not having that customer experience. I'm here to help you. I'm not here to make sure you're ticking the boxes you need to, to claim your benefits. And one of the simple things that the MD did and insisted upon is that we'd never ever call the people we work with clients, ever. And that was standard in the industry to call them clients. No, absolutely no. And if she heard it She would come down on you so hard. The people we worked with were customers. They were our customers. When she was talking to managers, she'd say to us, how many customers do you have? And we didn't work directly with customers, but the point she was making was that if you're a manager of a team, however many customers each member of your team has on their caseload, add that together and that's the number of customers that you're responsible for.
Al ElliottWow.
Leanne ElliottAnd just that simple thing built accountability to a level where you, you couldn't do anything other than, than treat people as customers. Encourage your team to, to promote that customer service because you weren't talking about your customer Jane, where are they up to? You're saying, where's our customer up to? And that is, is a, it's a simple example of just how it's not just about having a fancy mission statement or values on the wall. It's actually about how do you translate that into your business, what are the behaviors you expect from your people to see that vision manifest within your business.
Al ElliottOkay, so that's the first thing we can do to improve employee engagement. It clearly resonates with you. So what's number 2?
Leanne ElliottSo number 2 is engaging managers. And I think any person, business owner, psychologist, certainly HR professional, is going to be very clued in on the difference between leaders and managers. And I think that the difference is that, as I mentioned there, that, you know, my director is, is phoning me as a manager. I'm— my role is to manage this operation within the business of what the vision is. And that's what engaging management is. It's people who really focus their people. They give them scope. They understand how they can give their, their people responsibilities to deliver on this vision. They treat their people as individuals. There's no one-fits-all approach. Um, you know, they really— they have empathy for people. Genuine interest in people, and they're a coach. They stretch their people. They, they help them deliver, you know, what's the word, develop their skills, apply their skills. They give them influence. The things about managers, and although we're talking about 4 things you can do within a business support engagement, if you only do one thing, make sure you have great managers. Recruit great managers, train great managers, keep good managers. In research terms, the latest research, and this is what I say latest, it's actually 80 years' worth of research gathered by Gallup, who you might remember we mentioned last week in terms of an engagement provider. They have found that, roughly speaking, about 67% of the variance of engagement within a business comes down to management.
Al Elliott67%, did you say?
Leanne Elliott60 to 70%. And what I mean by variance is that if you do nothing else in your business, but you have great managers, then you're 2/3 of the way there to having great engagement. If you have bad managers, but you're doing everything else to support engagement, at best, you're having a 30% impact on the employee engagement within your business.
Al ElliottSo, do we want to move on to number 3 then?
Leanne ElliottYeah. So, number 3 is employee voice. I think this is really the root of engagement. And we chatted last week about how if, you know, you— it's one thing to give your employees a voice, but there needs to be authenticity behind that. If you're not going to apply the feedback that you get, then you're better doing nothing at all. You'll do far more damage in terms of employee engagement and morale by asking for opinions and then not doing anything with them. But it goes beyond that as well. Yes, ask employees for their opinion, but also creating an environment where you allow them to challenge views, either between teams or externally. This is, as you said before, about wanting people to, to create new ideas and, and be bold and want to come into work and want to improve things. They can only do that if they have employee voice. And employees are not the problem. And I think, which is why, you know, we've, we've called this podcast Pride in Your People. You take pride in your work, you have to take pride in your people as well. Um, so they're not, they're not the problem. If you're experiencing issues in your organization and you think it's your people Don't see them as a problem. See them as the solution. They are central to that solution. Involve them, listen to them, allow them to contribute, utilize their skills and experience, and apply their ideas.
Al ElliottI love that. And there's so many examples in the sexy Silicon Valley where products like life-changing, company-changing products have come from an engineer who was sitting there thinking, this, this hasn't worked for me. Let me create my own solution. Hackathons within, within industries where, or within companies where people will create innovative stuff. And let's be honest, if you don't think that anyone's listening, why would you bother talking?
Leanne ElliottUltimately, yeah, creating environments that are going to attract certain types of, of people. And that's what culture is, you know. If you work at Ryanair, the culture will be very different than if you work in the NHS. You're going to attract different people. So it's not a case of, oh, we have to be listen to everybody and implement every single idea. It's empowering people to feel safe enough to offer those ideas and having integrity as a leader that was going to have an impact on your business actually implementing them.
Al ElliottCool. Okay, so what's number 3?
Leanne ElliottThat was number 3. Oh, sorry. You're enjoying it though. The time is flying by.
Al ElliottI know. What's number 4?
Leanne ElliottSo number 4 is organizational integrity, um, which, which Sounds a bit—
Al ElliottWanky.
Leanne ElliottYeah, a little bit, doesn't it?
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottBut I think what, what it's really about is making sure there's no say-do gap. Promises made are promises kept, or there's an explanation given as to why not. I think this is so key. One, making sure that if you have values on your wall, you live by them. So if you say we promote a learning culture, there are no mistakes here, there is no blame, yet as a leader, as a manager, you see, you see a mess up with a client and you go charging in with an email or a phone call going, what the hell is this? What happened? What were you thinking? Then you're not reinforcing the values that you say your organization has. And, and that incongruence is a massive source of disengagement. The other side to organizational integrity as well is, is that promises made are promises kept or an explanation given. Employee engagement is about having an adult-to-adult relationship, a conversation. Yes, you know, you're gonna have to make difficult decisions as a business owner. You can't always give people exactly what they want. And I think a great example of that, working with some of our clients, was the impact of the pandemic, and particularly financially. Um, you know, bonuses were, were promised and then not given with no real explanation. And I understand the reason. It's because we didn't want to— bonuses related to revenue. Revenue performance has stagnated because of the impact of the pandemic. We don't want to worry people. Their jobs are safe. But the problem with protecting people is you create this power dynamic that isn't adult to adult, it's adult to child. And that in itself then breeds behaviours of, well, why won't you tell me? Do you not trust me to know? Or everything's fine. So why am I not getting my bonus? So it's integrity as an organization comes from having integrity as a leader.
Al ElliottI love that. I mean, you've talked time and time again about congruence and how the congruency is important in every single part of the business, whether it's marketing, sales, whether it's leadership, whether it's running teams, whether it's hybrids, you know, yes, you can work at home, but then, you know, I want you to clock in and out and use Toggl to track what you're doing at home. I think it's— I think that's really, really cool.
Leanne ElliottBut I think even with that, and I actually saw that as an example as well during the pandemic of organizations not using Toggl, but timesheeting, like how much time is taken on specific tasks. And when I spoke to the employees, like, oh, they just don't trust us to work from home, that they're keeping an eye on us. And I spoke to the leaders, they're like, No, we just want to make sure that our employees aren't spending, because we can't see them, aren't spending more time than they should be at work, on letting work bleed into home time, or commercially understanding the customers that are draining our time but perhaps not producing the level of income. But that wasn't discussed. So, this incongruence of actions and views was causing toxicity.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottAnd once that adult-to-adult conversation was had, everyone breathed out, was like, okay, let's go.
Al ElliottSo I hope that that's given you something, at least one of those 4 things that you could implement almost straight away, like in the next week or so in your organisation. If you are looking for a little bit more extended help on that, then as you probably know by now, we help businesses and predominantly service-based businesses to build amazing cultures where the team cares as much about the business as you do. If you're interested in that, then just go to oblonghq.com, or you could email me, al@oblonghq.com. And by the way, if you would like to listen to this very clever lady— I'm biased because she's my wife, but a very clever lady— for 25 minutes for no money whatsoever, bearing in mind she normally charges about £1 million an hour, then just email Email podcast@oblonghq.com. That's podcast@oblonghq.com. And we pick one person every week who will get a Zoom call to ask Leanne whatever she wants. So is that everything for now?
Leanne ElliottI think so, yeah. And just to kind of recap, the things we talked about there are kind of the practical things that you can do within your business. And when we create roadmaps for our clients, they typically revolve around those 4 aspects. But to know exactly where the issues are, you might have an intuitive feeling, you might have other cues within your business that's going to help you identify the areas that you need to focus in on. But really, the best thing you can do— action is only going to be impactful if it's the action that's required. And to understand if the action is required, run an engagement survey, do an audit, ask your people how things currently are within the organisation, because the risk of just jumping in with these 4 things without having the data to fall back on is you might be making investments that aren't going to have the impact on your business that you're looking for.
Al ElliottBrilliant. And if you're looking for a good solution for engagement surveys, and maybe you don't have the budget to recruit us to do it, then go back to episode 1. At around about 15-minute mark, we start talking, or Leanne starts talking about the alternatives for engagement surveys, and some of those are very affordable. So even if you can't—
Leanne ElliottOr free.
Al ElliottOr free. And so even if you haven't got the budget for us, then use one of those. Okay guys, really interested in your feedback. podcast@oblonghq.com if you want to tell us anything you want about the podcast. We'd love your feedback. And if you want to learn more, go to oblonghq.com.
Leanne ElliottLovely.
Al ElliottAll right, we'll see you next time. Bye-bye.