Episode 102 · 30 May 2024 · 30:39
5 MORE Tips for a Happy Workplace from 5 MORE Workplace Experts
5 MORE Tips for a Happy Workplace from 5 MORE Workplace Experts
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Tip 1: Train Your Managers (Prof. Sir Cary Cooper)
Tip 2: Create Offices That Empower Performance (Dr. Craig Knight)
Tip 3: Personalisation Improves Outcomes (Christian Van Stolk)
Tip 4: Well-being is the Responsibility of the Individual AND the Organisation (Dr. Audrey Tang)
Tip 5: Inclusion Requires Intention (Catherine Garrod)
Recap of All 5 Tips
Show notes
5 MORE Tips for a Happy Workplace from 5 MORE Workplace Experts
This Week in Work — Al Elliott and Leanne Elliott (Chartered Occupational Psychologist) continue their expert series with five more evidence-backed tips for a happier workplace. This episode features advice from Prof. Sir Cary Cooper, Dr. Craig Knight, Christian Van Stolk, Dr. Audrey Tang, and Catherine Garrod — covering everything from training managers in people skills to designing offices that empower performance.
If you missed Part 1, catch up on Episode 100 for the first five tips from Dr. Ryne Sherman, Prof. Nancy Doyle, Joe O'Connor, Isabel Berwick, and Bruce Daisley.
🔥 The 5 Tips
1. Prof. Sir Cary Cooper — Train Your Managers
The problem with most organisations? We promote people based on technical prowess, not their ability to manage people. Prof. Sir Cary Cooper argues that managers need training in social and interpersonal skills, emotional intelligence, and how to actually put people together — not just hit targets.
[Listen to Prof. Sir Cary Cooper → Episode 55: How to Protect Financial Wellbeing]
2. Dr. Craig Knight — Create Offices That Empower Performance
Dr. Craig Knight's research — spanning over 20 years — shows the office environment has a significant impact on creativity and productivity. The power struggle behind Return to Office mandates misses the point: if you want people back in the office, create a place where they actually want to be.
[Listen to Dr. Craig Knight → Episode 43: Is the Office Making a Comeback?]
3. Christian Van Stolk — Personalisation Improves Outcomes
There is no one-size-fits-all approach to hybrid work. Christian Van Stolk's research at RAND Europe looks at how different employees have varying needs and work habits that impact their health and productivity. Personalised management approaches improve outcomes.
[Listen to Christian Van Stolk → Episode 24: Britain's Healthiest Workplaces — full research report available on RAND Europe's website]
4. Dr. Audrey Tang — Well-being is the Responsibility of the Individual AND the Organisation
Well-being initiatives shouldn't just focus on individual resilience. Dr. Audrey Tang stresses that systemic changes within the organisation are required — and leaders play a crucial role in modelling and fostering a healthy work environment.
[Listen to Dr. Audrey Tang → Episodes 69 & 70: How to Keep Calm Using Mindfulness]
5. Catherine Garrod — Inclusion Requires Intention
Catherine Garrod flips the conversation around DEI, advocating for 'conscious inclusion.' Intentionality and data-driven strategies are essential to create a workplace where everyone feels valued and heard. Without a clear strategy, your inclusion plan never reaches maturity.
[Listen to Catherine Garrod → Episode 45: DEI 101 for Leaders]
💬 Missed Part 1?
Go back to Episode 100 where Al and Leanne shared their first five tips for a happy workplace with Dr. Ryne Sherman, Prof. Nancy Doyle, Joe O'Connor, Isabel Berwick, and Bruce Daisley.
Connect With Us
Got a question for the Workplace Surgery or a topic you'd love covered? Email us at hi@truthliesandwork.com or leave a comment on our YouTube channel. Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
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Al ElliottThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Al ElliottNice. Check out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
Leanne ElliottHello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning psychology podcast Brought to you by who? Only the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a business psychologist.
Al ElliottMy name is Al. I'm a business owner.
Leanne ElliottWe are here to help you simplify the science of work.
Al ElliottWhat a fabulous introduction, Leanne.
Leanne ElliottWhy, thank you so much. I'm getting— I've only 102 episodes in. I seem to be finding my groove.
Al ElliottYes, as Leanne said, 102 episodes. That means 102 episodes, over 180 interviews with workplace culture experts. We picked out our top 10 tips from our experts and researchers in the world of workplace psychology. If you missed the first part, you need to spin back and listen to episode 100. Well, to be honest, you could do it the other way around if you want to be.
Leanne ElliottThere are no rules.
Al ElliottThere's no rules. You can do what you want. These are not your average influencers. These are thought leaders at the very highest level.
Leanne ElliottYes. So in episode 100, we shared our first 5 tips for a happy workplace. And this is 5 more tips for a happy workplace, because that's the kind of people we are. We're always trying to give you more, isn't that right?
Al ElliottYes.
Leanne ElliottBut yes, the point is, these, these people aren't your average, your average thought leaders. These are exceptional world-leading thought leaders. They're operating at the highest levels, and they have been gracious enough to share their time and expertise with us and with you. So with that in mind, let's go and meet our first expert for this episode. None other than Professor Sir Kerry Cooper, who we spoke to back in episode 55, How to Protect Financial Wellbeing. So Professor Sir Kerry Cooper is a psychology icon. He is recognized as a world-leading expert on wellbeing. He's written more than 250 books on the topic. He is the 50th Anniversary Professor of Organizational Psychology and Health at Alliance Manchester Business School. He is also the co-founder of Robinson Cooper, a pioneering wellbeing consultancy. Professor Sir Kerry Cooper has almost as many awards as we have podcast episodes. He's got more than 40, and most recently he has been ranked the 4th best business and management scientist in the world by research.com. That was in April 2024. He's a big cheese. He's a cheddar. His tip, his tip is timeless. His tip needs to be heard. If you do one thing, train your managers.
Al ElliottThe problem we have is to do with line managers. What we tend to do in developed countries is we recruit and promote people to managerial roles based on their technical skills, not their people skills. This is a very fundamental problem we have, which we haven't directly tackled. You know, we look at, we look at somebody who's a good marketeer and we say, that guy's great. He's, his sales are fantastic. Let's make him a marketing manager. That teacher in a classroom is outstanding. So let's make her a head teacher, you know, with minimal amount of training. Or even thinking about whether they're competent enough to do it. This is very fundamental. So what we need in the future— so these are, by the way, people who don't have much EQ, not much emotional intelligence. They're technically really good, great marketeer, great teacher, great social worker. Put them in a managerial role and they fail. And it's because they might not have the people skills.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottTo put people together. Now, what do people skills mean? Social interpersonal skills, emotional intelligence, being able to empathize with your colleagues, understand, seeing their change of behavior, being socially sensitive. So you notice somebody's not the same. So, you know, I've noticed that, you know, Al usually is very ebullient. He's in a meeting. He's You know, he's participating like everybody else. The last few weeks, he's just quiet, totally withdrawn. And when he does come in, he's very angry, very aggressive. Now, a good line manager recognizes a change of behavior. And that's a line manager all the way from shop floor to top floor. This goes all the way up the system. Anybody who's in a managerial role. Okay. So that person is more likely to be, to recognize symptoms in their subordinates and saying, putting armor on shoulder, Al, I've noticed for the last few weeks, maybe month, maybe 2 months, you've been kind of withdrawing. Something's troubling you, isn't it? I just feel it. Is it? What's wrong? And because he's an open person, he or she is an open person, Al is more likely to respond and open up themselves because open people, open people who have these social skills are people who are prepared to admit their own vulnerabilities, which enables people they're working with to open up. That's the way you do it. So in the future, what we need is we need to recruit or promote line managers where there's parity between their people skills and their technical skills. And here's the problem we have, Al. The problem we have is because we don't have enough of them. I mean, in the years— I'm that old, which I can say in all the years I've worked in organizations, I would say And I had a university spinoff company, University of Manchester spinoff company called Robertson Cooper. Our work was working with lots of big companies, organizations, hospitals, public, private sector bodies.
Leanne ElliottOkay.
Al ElliottI would say that if I was giving an estimate, I'd say if you looked at the managerial pool of most organizations, 40% of managers, wherever they are in the hierarchy, have these skills naturally. You know, luckily they have the good people, social interpersonal skills. 40% are trainable. There is a problem that about 20% are untrainable. They shouldn't be in a managerial role. They just have a personality that makes it difficult for you to train them, right? The more we recognize that. So the problem we have in most organizations, in my view, is we have to deal with the cohort we currently have, the 40-40-20. 40's fine, no training needed. 40, training. 20, find another role for them. Take him away from people, whatever you do. Yeah, that's Professor Tsakiri Cooper, who unfortunately Leanne was ill on the day that his interview was on, so I did the interview. Leanne has yet to speak to one of her heroes, but if you're listening, He's promised. You've promised, Mr. Cooper. You've promised to come back on. Now, another prominent psychologist who had a lot to say about the importance of management was Dr. Craig Knight, and in particular, the power struggle that is behind this whole RTO, return to the office mandate. We spoke to Dr. Craig back in episode 43, where it was all about, is the office making a comeback? Dr. Craig is a Chartered Registered Doctor of Workplace Psychology. After years of research into the psychology of office spaces at the University of Exeter, Dr. Craig launched Identify Realisation Limited, a specialist consultancy dedicated to improving wellbeing, satisfaction, and productivity within the office. His work has been published across academic journals. He's been featured by the BBC and the Scientific American Mind. Dr. Craig is definitely team office, but he did have some choice words for leaders behind the recent RTO mandates. His tip: if you want people back in the office, create a place that Empowers their performance and their wellbeing. You can trace offices back to the ancient pharaohs where scribes were the 3rd most important people in the land. You had obviously the royal family first, then you had the priests, then you had the scribes. And even things like terms we use today, like cleric, for example, leads to the term clerical. People keep reinventing the wheel and calling it the same thing. Agile flexible space, for example. Agile flexible space dates back to Josiah Wedgwood in the 18th century, and we're still reinventing it and calling it different things. People don't talk about Taylorist spaces anymore. But to go back to the principle we're talking about of Lean, which affects 70% of workspaces. If you've got, if for example, you've got a clean desk policy, that's a Lean policy.
Leanne ElliottRight.
Al ElliottSo it affects 70% of offices. The 5 pillars of Lean, don't come from Japanese manufacturing where they're said to have come from. They are taken precisely from Taylor in writing his book in 1911. And the reason that it is Taylorist is because what happens is called Toyotism. Toyota copied their ideas from Ford. Ford, Henry Ford, employed Taylor to set up his production processes. So all of that, and of course Toyota influenced what's going on now in the workplace with Lean and Kaizen and all of these wonderful terminologies. So the thing that has changed in over 20 years is nothing. The best opportunity we've got is post-pandemic. And of course, what we see is lots of organizations panicking like hell because management is losing control and they're calling people back to these old, malfunctioning, discredited, suboptimal ways.
Leanne ElliottDr. Craig also shared some of the findings of his 20-year-long research into the relationships between the work environment Our base point is always Lean Six Sigma.
Al ElliottAll right. We started with that base point when we, when we began this research back in 2000, 2003. Okay. So we take that and I'll give you a quick example of what we might do. So we're sitting here and I don't know if you can see this, hold this. There's, there's a can of drink. Okay. So we'd say to people in 90 seconds, tell me how many uses you can think of for this can of drink.
Leanne ElliottOkay.
Al ElliottAnd you might say, well, you could use it as a doorstop. You could crunch it up and use it as a weapon. You could use it as a receptacle for flowers. You could use a can of drink, and so on. As many ideas as you can think of in 90 seconds. And what we find is we find that the increase in ideas that people think of can increase by up to 60%, going from that lean space to where people are empowered and where they, for example, are empowered to use design as a submissive rather than a driving force. Okay, so that's a big thing. Not only that, we look at how many discrete ideas groups think of. Let's say everybody's in a group of 3, so everybody thinks of 6 ideas in that group, but the 6 ideas are different. So we might get 3 ideas overlap and another 6 that don't. So out of 12 ideas, 18 ideas, 9 of them are discrete and unique. What we found is that the discrete ideas in the empowered condition were higher than the number of ideas in total in the Lean Six Sigma space. So that was Dr. Craig Knight. He's got the voice of— this is one of those people you just want to listen to all day long. Even if he was talking rubbish, I'd probably still listen to him, but he doesn't.
Leanne ElliottHe does have a great voice, a really great, soothing voice. It's one of those— it's a bedtime story on Calm, isn't it?
Al ElliottYes. So Dr. Knight, if you and I want to collaborate on a book—
Leanne ElliottDr. Knight! I think I've made that joke before in the first episode. Did I?
Al ElliottShall we move on? Yes.
Leanne ElliottOffice versus remote versus hybrid has indeed been an ongoing debate in the world of work and has been, to be honest, some of our most popular episodes, including episode 24, Britain's Healthiest Workplaces, where we met the 2023 award winners. During the episode, that is where we met Christian Van Stolk. Christian is the researcher behind Britain's Healthiest Workplace Survey, which informs the awards, and is also the Executive Vice President at RAND Europe, a world-leading research institute that uses evidence-based insights to improve policy and decision-making, including in the workplace. He is also an advisor to the World Bank and the UK government. Christian shared his pioneering research into employee behaviors and well-being in hybrid workplaces. His team looked at workplace behavior data collected by Microsoft applications for more than 1,000 UK-based employees and how these behaviors impacted outcomes such as productivity, performance, and well-being. His key finding was that different types of employees experience work slightly differently, which leads us to tip number 3: personalization improves outcomes.
Al ElliottAnd the idea was really to look at certain types of work behaviors and then look at what the health and well-being impacts of that work behavior would be. So for instance, you could say sending emails late in the evening is bad for health and well-being. Or you get up really early and you start working, that is bad for your health and well-being. Or being in excessive number of meetings during the day might be bad for your health and well-being. These were the hypotheses that we were testing. As it happens, in this research, what we showed is that there are really different categories of workers. First of all, that's important to think about. So even within an organization, there are a variety of different subcultures. And these workers typically like to work in slightly different ways. And that's interesting. And if you dig below that, there is no real uniform type of work behaviors that leads to optimal health and wellbeing outcomes. So what this means is really that there's a high degree of personalization that is required within a workforce. So having a blanket ban on emails after 7 or 8 in the evening might seem like a good idea to a chief executive, but ultimately, you probably are sort of impacting negatively a certain group of workers within your organization. So that seems to me to push a lot of the responsibility down to line managers in terms of managing their staff effectively and trying to encourage work behaviors that lead to better health and well-being. And of course, understanding really what staff need as well. So that's, that's really what this study is about.
Leanne ElliottIf you are interested in reading the full research report, it is available on RAND Europe's website, and I will leave a link in the show notes. It is definitely worth a read. So you might have noticed a theme here— well-being and line management are very closely related. We actually get asked to speak on well-being from time to time. We're asked about burnout, we're asked about specific challenges around men's mental health, or even what interventions businesses can put in place to improve well-being in the workplace. And this is where we are really, really careful as consultants to distinguish between well-being at an individual level and an organisational level. And our next expert explains this perfectly.
Al ElliottDr. Audrey Tang is a long-term friend and supporter of the show. We interviewed her most recently on episodes 69 and 70, How to Keep calm using mindfulness. Dr. Audrey is a chartered psychologist and a mental health broadcaster with an award-winning podcast and a community radio show at the Wellbeing Lounge. She's also a multi-award-winning business author with her 3 books, The Leader's Guide to Mindfulness, The Leader's Guide to Resilience, and The Leader's Guide to Wellbeing. These serve as a practical guide to building and maintaining mental fitness. Her expert tip: remember, wellbeing is the responsibility of the individual, and the organisation. And as a leader, that means prioritising your own mental health too. Whenever people go off sick with stress, burnout, rust-out, all of those mental health issues, what happens is organisations up their wellbeing interventions. They bring me in, they do lunchtime yoga, they get things like gym cards or restaurant cards and so on. It's all about the individual. However, if I were to go to work and fall down a hole, health and safety would not give me lessons on how to walk around a hole. They would not bring in training about how to get out of a hole. They would fix the hole. And this is the whole point that wellbeing interventions, wellbeing incentives, which aren't quite as good as interventions, and approaches to wellbeing They really focus on the individual, but what we need to be looking at is the system and the causes of the stress in the same way as you would take a health and safety practical approach to stopping the causes of physical injury. Interventions for the individual are only half the answer. Systemic change is the other half. And Karen Scholes has actually been doing a lot of research in this area. It's very recent. It's on the psychological safety— sorry, psychosocial safety climate. And the psychosocial safety climate is taking a health and safety approach to psychological issues. It looks for the causes of the stress in the first place, rather than being quite reactive and saying, oh, well, individuals are not coping, so let's build up their emotional and mental fitness, which is all very important and all very useful. But as I say, It's only half the story. The other half has to be tackling the causes of the stress in the first place. Well, business leaders need to invest in their own mental health because actually they're role modeling their behavior to everybody else. If you as a business leader are going around saying, oh, well, we care about your wellbeing, but perhaps you are actually burning the candle at both ends, or perhaps your actions aren't matching up with what you're saying, that can be very problematic for everybody else. Organizations are quite organic in the way that they respond, and they can often— teams can often take on the personality of the leader. If a team is very, very stressed, very snappy, it's creating a toxic environment, we do kind of have to look a little bit further up and see what are the demands coming downwards. So, the leader is well-placed to understand their own emotional demands and what they're placing on everybody else to some extent, and therefore need to role model their own looking after their own health. However, the other reason why leaders need to invest is because they are in the position to make changes. They're also in the position to recognize when something's going wrong, because so often we go to the workplace and we do everything. We work hard, we want to get praised, we want to do well, we want to improve ourselves. And we might be pushing ourselves to the point where we're struggling to cope. And when you're in the situation, you can't see it, and you also may not know where you can reach out to help. So the leader has an extra responsibility to recognize and put in not only ways to perhaps change the reasons for that stress in the first place, but to support that individual who's going through all of those issues.
Leanne ElliottDid you know that the UK's number one management podcast, that's Us, by the way, and the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network.
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioural science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good looking. And you're not gonna say which. Fel, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in 3s— the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Leanne ElliottThe audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless. Seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. Uh, we've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioral science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics. It is.
Leanne ElliottIt's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
Al ElliottIt can.
Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?
Al ElliottI am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back. Definitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this, so come back. I'll cut that out. Keep that in.
Leanne ElliottWe will leave all the links to check out Dr. Audrey's content in the show notes. It really is brilliant. It's so light-hearted, accessible. It's, it's binge-worthy, her content. So definitely check it out. We have talked about line managers, we have talked about remote versus the office, we have talked about well-being. They have certainly been recurring themes over the last 100 episodes, and there is one more that has been working its way up the priority list at last, and that is diversity, equity, and inclusion. We do discuss DEI on the show quite frequently, but I want to take you back to episode 45, DEI 101 for Leaders, where we met Catherine Garrard. Catherine is an EDI consultant, speaker, and author. Her best-selling debut book, Conscious Inclusion, helps organizations Do EDI One Step at a Time, and it genuinely is one of the most engaging and practical EDI resources I've ever come across. You also may have heard of Katherine from her corporate career. She was with PepsiCo before she progressed to Head of Inclusion at Sky, a business she transformed to become number 1 on the Inclusive Top 50 list. Katherine has really flipped common conversations around DEI on their head, shifting from unconscious bias to what she calls conscious inclusion. Her tip: inclusion requires intention.
Al ElliottSo inclusion for me is the important word. Whether you use EDI or D&I or whatever, inclusion is the important word. So inclusion is, you know, as human beings, I think it's universal, right? We want to be valued, we want to be heard, we want to be involved. And that for me is the essence of inclusion. So whether you're with your mates or your family or, you know, the local sports club, or you're at work, like, people want to be included. They don't want to turn up and feel awkward and feel out of place. So that's just the universal thing that applies across every demographic. So inclusion is a really important word for me. And then the conscious bit is because over 90% of our decisions that we make in a day are automatic. Our brains are these incredible machines. Helping us navigate busy lives all the time, based on data and information that it has from before. So, who we know, what we trust, what we've tried. And it's as simple as yes or no, dangerous or safe, eat it, don't eat it, watch another episode, go to bed early, etc., etc. Our brains are just making loads of these decisions all the time. Brilliant. And that's fine, because it's about our own personal individual experience in those circumstances. But when you're making decisions for an organisation that are going to impact lots of people, that automatic thinking is flawed with bias because it is really heavily influenced by your own personal experience. And if you come back to the fact that there's 8 billion people on the planet, one person is never going to be able to be confident making a good and inclusive decision for lots of people. So you need to shift your mind into that 5 or 10% thinking, which is conscious when you're making decisions about people, and that's really the essence of the whole book. There was an amazing visual in an HBR article recently, and it had loads of people on a tennis court, all hitting balls in different directions, and it was kind of quite chaotic. What I usually find when I turn up to the organisations I work with is they've got lots of really passionate people doing lots of wonderful things, but they're all pointing in different directions, and it doesn't add up to an overall output. So, the biggest thing I find with organisations, and by the way, that's a really good problem to have, because if you've already got people who are committed and engaged and wanting to make a difference, then actually providing a little bit of framework and guidance around what direction to travel in and how you can track success makes it just much easier for all of those people to be successful. So, I think, Kind of busy being busy is the misconception. You know, we do lots of comms, we do lots of events, we've updated some policies, we've introduced this, we've done that, all great stuff. But if you haven't got an overarching ambition and you're able to track that effectively and understand what people's experiences are and whether they're good or not, and close the gaps, if you've got gaps in experience between demographics, then you're only going to get so far.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al Elliottyour plan or your strategy just isn't ever really going to reach maturity. I think it's really about, you have to set out what your ambition is. What is it that you're trying to do? And I think really simply, it is creating a good experience for everyone. Now, that's simple to say, but the other bit that organisations quite often, I find, they don't have is really good use of data. So, whatever your success measures are, whether it is an internal engagement survey for employees, you're looking at promotions, or you're looking at who gets the recognition awards, or if it's something external and you're looking at customer satisfaction, or you're perhaps looking at retention, or you're looking at who's accessing your services. Most often what I find is organisations are looking at those things as a kind of holistic overview of the total population. Whereas actually, if you can invest in your data insight capability, And break some of those numbers down, you'll really find out whether or not your organisation is inclusive. So, an example of that, let's take a customer satisfaction score. You know, if most of your kind of scores are 80%, 90%, you think, well, that's pretty good. But if you break that down, then the largest population are 85%, but your smaller populations are perhaps only 67% or 69%, but they're being masked because of the relative weighting of the largest population, then you can really be specific about your actions and where you want to focus your energy to improve the experience for the smaller populations to bring it up to the same standard.
Leanne ElliottAgain, we will leave a link to all of Katherine's socials and her book in the show notes. If DEI is part of your job or you want to learn more, I cannot recommend her book Conscious Inclusion enough. So there we go, that is a wrap. 5 more tips to create a happy workplace from 5 workplace experts. To recap, number 1, Professor Sir Kerry Cooper— have we got the message yet, guys? Train your managers.
Al ElliottNumber 2, Dr. Craig Knight— if you want people back in the office, create a place where they want to be.
Leanne ElliottYes. And number 3, Christian Van Stolk— there is no one size-fits-all approach. Individualisation improves outcomes.
Al ElliottNumber 4, Dr. Audrey Tang: Wellbeing is the responsibility of the individual and the organisation, and leaders, that means taking care of your own wellbeing too.
Leanne ElliottAnd finally, Katherine Garrard: Inclusion requires intention. You do need a strategy.
Al ElliottIf you haven't listened to episode 100 where we had our first 5 tips, just go back. You're gonna hear some incredible advice. From psychologist Dr. Ryan Sherman, neurodiversity expert Professor Nancy Doyle, Joe O'Connor of The 4-Day Workweek fame, Financial Times journalist Isabel Berrick, and bestselling author Bruce Daisley.
Leanne ElliottDo go and check it out, and we'll be back next Tuesday. Well, we're back next Thursday. We're back on Tuesday. This Tuesday, not next Tuesday. This Tuesday.
Al ElliottWe're back on Tuesday and Thursday. Every Tuesday, every Thursday.
Leanne ElliottBut on this Tuesday, we'll be back with another another episode of This Week in Work where we share some articles that have caught our eye, some hot topics that we're discussing, and of course our weekly workplace surgery.
Al ElliottI normally say that bit. I noticed you nearly stumbled on that.
Leanne ElliottI did have to think about that. A lot of W's in there.
Al ElliottI call it the world-famous weekly workplace surgery, which is even more difficult to say. Anyway, if you have, um, if you have a— if you've seen an article that you think that we should have a chat about, then check out the show notes. There's ways to get in touch. And if you've got a question for Leanne, then as ever, just check out the show notes. There's a way you can email us, and I will put that question to Leanne. If you haven't yet subscribed, what's wrong with you? You need to subscribe. This is— your life will be immeasurably better when you click that subscribe button. There's only one way you can make it better than immeasurably, and that is leave us a review, and then you are guaranteed into the kingdom of heaven or whatever you believe in. That is guaranteed. You could, you could tell them that I sent you.
Leanne ElliottYes, do subscribe, leave a review. It's the best way to support the show. I'm not sure about that, that whole eternal extra life thing, but who knows? We'll find out one day. We'll, uh, see you next week.
Al ElliottBye-bye.
Leanne ElliottYou may also have— well, you may also have heard of Katherine Before she— you may— well, you also may have heard from—
Al ElliottI almost laughed when you kept getting it wrong and you're getting it right, and I was like, please don't laugh because it will ruin— she'll be so angry. Yeah, that was Professor Sekari Cooper, um, who— Kari, isn't it? But that doesn't mean that he's not had some certain Mm. His tip, if you want people to come back in the office, create a place that empowers their import— His tip, if you want people back in the office, create a place that empowers their import— His tip, if you want a place— His tip, for fuck's sake.