Episode 119 · 30 July 2024 · 48:27
How to build connection in remote teams, with Confetti CEO, Lee Rubin
Featuring Lee Rubin
How to build connection in remote teams, with Confetti CEO, Lee Rubin
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Welcome to Truth, Lies & Work with Lee Rubin
Lee's story — from aspiring entrepreneur to Confetti CEO
Why online events? The problem Confetti solves
The pandemic pivot — from in-person to virtual
If my people are having fun, what does that do for my business?
Studio Al — the psychology of play
Can a bad event do more harm than good?
Inclusion and introverts in team events
interview#introverts#inclusion#team-events
Common mistakes in event planning
The future of remote and hybrid work
Will the next generation rebel against remote work?
Where to find Lee and Confetti
Show notes
How to Build Connection in Remote Teams — with Confetti CEO, Lee Rubin
Guest: Lee Rubin — CEO and Co-founder of Confetti, the virtual events platform that has organized over 33,000 events for more than 1 million participants, serving companies like Google, LinkedIn, and Netflix.
Remote work solved the "where" of work. But what about the "who"?
Lee Rubin joins Al and Leanne to talk about the art and science of building genuine connection in distributed teams. From her pivot from in-person events to virtual experiences during the pandemic, to why "pure fun" events are actually serious business, Lee shares what she's learned running thousands of team-building experiences for the world's biggest companies.
They dig into the psychology of play (yes, it's properly researched), how to design events that introverts actually enjoy, the most common mistakes companies make with virtual gatherings, and why team building is about more than just morale.
Top 3 Takeaways
Play is serious business. Play is well-researched psychology — it contributes to cognitive, social, and physical growth. Pretend play fosters imagination, social play builds collaboration, and locomotor play supports physical development. These aren't just kid things; they're adult team-building fundamentals.
Virtual events need clear objectives. The biggest mistake companies make is hosting events without knowing what they're trying to achieve. "Pure fun" is actually a valid objective — but you need to name it. Without clear goals, events become wasted time at best and a source of resentment at worst.
It's not all-or-nothing. Remote, hybrid, and in-person work aren't competing ideologies. The best approach depends on your company's context. If you're fully remote, virtual connection is your bread and butter — but you still need to invest in bringing people together when it matters.
Connect With Us
Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
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Lee RubinThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Lee RubinNice.
Lee RubinCheck out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
Leanne ElliottHello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning psychology podcast brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a chartered psychologist.
Lee RubinMy name's Al and I am a business owner.
Leanne ElliottAnd we are here to help you simplify the science of work and help you build awesome workplaces. We have another incredible episode for you this week, another interview, a founder story. In fact, it's gonna be really, really good. But before then, let us fill you in.
Lee RubinWe have a new person in the studio today.
Leanne ElliottDo you? It's been quite the weekend in, um, At Elliott HQ Towers, isn't it?
Lee RubinYeah, we went back to the UK briefly for my mum's birthday. Happy 50th, Mum.
Leanne ElliottFabulous time.
Lee RubinIt was, and it was— the weather was beautiful. And if you know, if you know, if you're in the UK this weekend, the weather was absolutely beautiful. But when we came back, first of all, we got bumped from our flight. Never happened before. We've, we must have done like 400 flights so far, and we got bumped because they oversold the flights. We couldn't get on it, so we ended up having to stay over one extra day. But hopefully The, the airline is going to not only pay for our hotel, not only pay for our very expensive taxi, um, but also give us a little bit of compensation. So that'd be good.
Leanne ElliottYeah, yeah, fingers crossed for the compo, eh?
Lee RubinAnd then the other thing is that we came back and we went to pick up our dog from the dog sitter and brought home an extra one.
Lee RubinYeah, we have.
Leanne ElliottHe's cool, he's ace. His name is Bobby. Fun fact, Bob means broad bean in Croatian or Bosnian. Um, so yeah, boy Bean has been with us not quite 24 hours yet, um, but so far so good. He's currently just chilling on the, um, on the daybed asleep whilst we record the show.
Lee RubinAnd poor Pino, our, our trusty hound who's been with us 8 years, um, is on the floor. So I think we've kind of seen there's some kind of power shift going on here, I think. So if you do hear some scampering or perhaps a little bit of barking in the background, then that's the reason why. Well, Let's talk today. We are talking about events. Now, I'm approaching alarmingly fast 50. So corporate events were kind of back in my day were essentially just throwing a crate of beer or some money behind the bar and maybe some pizzas or something and then just letting people get on with it. The inevitable complaints the next day to HR because someone was a bit handsy or someone photocopied their backside or something like that. Now, that is not necessarily the case these days because Events back then seemed to be an excuse to get drunk and make bad choices.
Leanne ElliottI'm a little bit younger than Al, not much, but I'm, I'm approaching 40 rather than 50. Um, so things had already changed a little bit in my time, or at least by the time I joined the workforce. Most events were a little more purposeful and generally much better planned. But when the pandemic hit, things changed forever for in-person events. None of us could get together, so the most obvious switch was to online events.
Lee RubinYes. Now, our guest today is arguably the world's expert on putting on online events for your employees. She knows a thing or two about it. Her company handles the online events for the likes of— wait for it— Google, LinkedIn, Netflix, Shopify, Adobe, Facebook, and about 8,000 other companies. Now, our guest spotted this opportunity when she was asked to put together an event for the company she was working for at the time. It was not an easy task. So fast forward to 2024, and her co-founder and her have organized more than 33,000 events with over 1 million people attending. They help organizations organize online events in just a few clicks, and it genuinely is just go in there. It's a bit like shopping on Amazon. You go click, click, click, I'll have that, thank you very much, done. So let's go and meet our amazing guest today, Lee Rubin, who is the co-founder and CEO of Confetti, and let's hear the story of how she got started.
Lee RubinI'm Lee Rubin. I'm the founder and CEO at Confetti. I'm one of the world's experts in employee culture and event planning, especially virtual team building, because that's That's really the essence of what Confetti is all about. My company, Confetti, has over 8,000 customers, and we've worked with companies like Google, Facebook, Shopify, Spotify, Pinterest, Etsy, you name it. All the logos in the book, we work with over 30% of all Fortune 500s in improving their company's culture. And in short, Confetti is like the easiest way to discover, plan, book unforgettable virtual and hybrid employee experiences, anything from like hosted games to shippable classes. It's really the, the only platform that takes care of the entire planning process end to end, but with a happiness policy, because we care so much about the quality and ultimately making sure everybody has a great time. And there's truly something for everyone.
Lee RubinWas there a point in your life where you suddenly decided, yep, this is my passion, this is what I'm gonna, gonna do for, for the foreseeable future? Or has it just evolved? How did it all start?
Lee RubinOh, it definitely, it definitely evolved, I think. So I'll just give you kind of my, my little career story and through that evolution. But I'd always wanted to be an entrepreneur from a very young age. I didn't even fully know what I wanted in the scope of entrepreneurialism. I just wanted— I knew that I liked creating, I liked building.
Lee RubinYeah.
Lee RubinI like playing around. Like, I still call it play, even though some people would be like, this is not play. You're an adult. This is venture capital money. And this is like real people. But like, to me, there's still an essence of play. And I came out of college, I worked in a company called Zocdoc as a sales team member. And there was a really kind of beautiful evolution at the time because there was this trend of the best place to work, which is now a pretty recognizable brand and opportunity for companies to be able to showcase their culture. And Zocdoc was an exponentially growing startup with new venture capital money, and they were, they were succeeding. And they were recruiting really hardcore. They needed to bring on a ton of people, and in doing so, they were very generous with their culture budgets. So we got, as a team, in the spirit of, you know, them trying to promote that, that Zocdoc was a great place to work, really generous budgets of around $100, $120 per quarter per per person to spend on team building. And it was at that point that I saw the opportunity because I was tasked with planning these events often, and I found out how difficult it was to plan these events. So when I first started the Confetti journey, I had this element of myself that I was like, I knew I wanted to build something of my own. I saw this pain and opportunity where it's like, it's really hard to plan events. What happens if there was a solution that would make it easier for teams to find something great and put it together. And then that evolved to realizing at the time marketplaces were trending. As you can imagine, like Airbnb was at the start of its kind of, you know, popular, more trending side of it, of its Like path. Zocdoc was a marketplace. So, so Confetti started off as a marketplace where any vendor could just come on and, you know, share what team building opportunities they could offer. And then companies could just, you know, click book. And then if you don't like it, review it and give it a bad review. But I realized there was really a miss of an opportunity. Because it was really amazing to follow up with customers when the events were great. And it was really crappy to follow up with customers when the events were not great. People really don't like going into a bad event. And there's so much social pressure as the organizer when, when you put together a bad event. So that's when I made the change within Confetti that quality was really core and key to what it is that we're building. And after that, the quality became kind of the focus of Confetti. Like, even today, we don't have review systems on our platform openly, like, displayed in typical fashion because we don't want anything under 5 stars. So we're monitoring every single piece of feedback that's set from a human. We review the constructive feedback and literally implement it immediately. And if things through the vetting process, through scale, just doesn't hit the mark, then it doesn't stay on our platform. It either becomes a 5-star event or it gets the chopping block. I really loved seeing how these positive events affected culture. And I realized that it's not just about the event, it's really about You know, the dynamics of people working together and how events is often just that foot in the door that can spark a conversation that can, you know, make people take off their, their mask for a second and be silly or competitive or whatever else. You know, I don't know. I don't know about you, but me and my significant other, as soon as we play like Monopoly together, we put ourselves in like some kind of competitive place where all of a sudden we're like, oh, you're going down. And we start shit talking like crazy. You know, you really You do start seeing these fun, playful, different sides of people. And I became obsessed with not just like the quality of the events themselves, but what other items in culture can lead to something positive or negative, and how can events still be very much a facilitator of that. But the culture is so much deeper than just the events itself, as I mentioned.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Lee RubinAll that, all the crap in between and the people dynamics, that's very challenging to navigate.
Lee RubinI want to learn a bit more about Confetti. You gave me a really nice overview there, but I want to understand essentially what problem it solves. You've told me that we do, that you do online events, but just tell me, why does someone even want an online event?
Lee RubinYeah, well, first of all, there's still a lot of people out there and companies that have made their workplace a remote workplace, especially small and medium-sized businesses, but even large ones. And what happens is that, you know, all of the moments that we used to have when pre-pandemic, the around the kitchen, you know, corner or over a cup of coffee or water cooler moments that we always just had in an in-person setting. We don't really have those moments anymore. So when you're going virtual or when you're going hybrid, you have to be a lot more deliberate about how you're investing in culture. And specifically coordinating team activities, it really involves a lot of juggling, lots of logistics included, but not limited to, you know, negotiating with vendors and scheduling and rescheduling and waiting for vendor responses and Handling all the procurement stuff, just getting attendee registration. And then on top of everything, you don't even know if the event is going well. Like, if you've ever planned a wedding or, uh, like a birthday party, it's like the anxiety of just doing all these steps that you're like trying to figure out. And then you're like, okay, well, fingers crossed, I hope everything's going to be great. So, um, that, that creates a lot of stress on people. So. We offer a really streamlined, like almost like Amazon-like platform. You just discover, you plan it, you execute it all within a couple of clicks. And with the larger organizations that we work with, everything is pre-approved with HR, with procurement, with legal, with security. It's corporate-friendly content. It guarantees a seamless booking process, and the planners can just join the events worry-free, just like any other participant.
Lee RubinSo, You also do offline, like in-person events, don't you?
Lee RubinWe used to, pre-pandemic. That was the vision and the mission of Confetti, but we needed to pivot. I mean, we raised our seed round based off of in-person events. That's what we did for so many years. And then, you know, I remember the day of like lockdown and needing to revisit how the hell we're going to live another day as an event planning company when the one thing in the world that we're not allowed to do is come together as people. But we pivoted very quickly over to virtual events, and there's a lot of really fun and beautiful stories around that pivot.
Lee RubinWe spoke to a couple of women who run a big agency, an event experiential agency called MKG in New York, and they said that it was one of the worst moments, worst periods of their life, when essentially what they did for a living was just canceled for 2 years. How did it feel when you were like that? Did you see the opportunity for online at the time, or was there ever a point where you just sat at your kitchen table going, oh my God?
Lee RubinIt was a very short period. I like to share the story that the last invoice that we got from an in-person event and then the first invoice that we got from a virtual event, the span between those was 10 days. So it's really a testament to the fact that we were, we were very quick and very agile to change. And I think, you know, for me, there, there's, there's a nervousness because there's always this concern of failing. But most of my anxiety, my insecurity around virtual events wasn't really related to like, Yeah. whether there wasn't a need so much at the time, like, because that was kind of like a secondary thing was like, can virtual events actually be good? And can the quality be something that is parallel to what an amazing in-person event can replicate? And then after that, I was like, okay, well, can this actually even be like a sustainable business? But, you know, we didn't give too much Uh, like, thought to our anxieties. We just kind of got to work. And the biggest gamble, I think, was really figuring out— if you remember in the early days of the pandemic, there was like, is this like a 2-week thing or like a 2-year thing? Um, and we just ended up being like, okay, let's just plan for, for like, uh, it being something that actually is going to take a while for us to Overcome, even though I was definitely in the camp of like, it can't possibly be more than 2 weeks that we're— but no, I was wrong. I really want events to be as affordable as possible. I wish that money wasn't so much of a reason why companies don't invest in their culture. So there are different ways that you can tackle this. You can tackle it by automating more experiences and games by having maybe a really amazing AI host, if that could ever possibly be one of the options, or working with more sponsors and partners to just be able to bring the overall cost of these events down. The team is just truly good people with good intentions and I just, I'm so proud of the team and all of the hardships that we've overcome over the past few years. Employees that, you know, came and left, ideas that we had that were, we thought were good, that ended up not being good. All the slew of challenges, but at the end of the day, like we, We focused on quality and we're good people and we had good intentions. And I think that's like truly one of the things that we can be most proud of. I, I subscribe to like this belief that you're, you're a reflection of your work. So if you do a lousy job, it's a reflection of kind of your values as a person. I like to do things well. I like to do things thoroughly. And I have the customer's best interests in mind, and and that's really the team that I've surrounded myself with.
Leanne ElliottAfter this short break, we're going to ask Lee the questions almost any manager will already have. Aren't events just a reason to slack off work? Did you know that the UK's number one management podcast—that's us, by the way—and the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?
Lee RubinWe actually have a lot in common. We both use. behavioral science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Lee RubinAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good-looking. And you're not going to say which. Fel, host of Nudge, UK's number 1 marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in 3s—
Leanne Elliottthe HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Seamless, seamless.
Lee RubinTell us about your latest We've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioural science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff, and do some big things about how this affects the worlds of politics, business, and brands as well.
Leanne ElliottIt is. It's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to create your best workplace. business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
Lee RubinIt can.
Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?
Lee RubinI am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Lee RubinYeah, come back. Definitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this. So come back. I'll cut that out. Keep that in. Welcome back. Okay, boomer time here.
Leanne ElliottHammer time.
Lee RubinMoving on. So let's just imagine that I'm a proper boomer. So if my people are having fun at events, then they're not working. They're actually costing me money. Now, I put this exact question to Lee and challenged her to change my mind.
Lee RubinWell, there's kind of 2 things that I like to point out that I I think help with those kinds of conversations. So like, one of them is if when you look at sports teams and specifically like championship-winning sports teams, and they're in that, you know, they have the trophy in their hand and they're being interviewed by the different journalists and they're like, what, you know, what ultimately brought this success upon your team? Everybody always attributes it to the chemistry. that the team has. Because at that point, you know, everybody is so talented. But, but really the chemistry is what, what makes teams, I think, have a stronger competitive advantage than others. And then the second thing that I— it's just a quote that I really like, but if you're familiar with Plato, it says you can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. And I think what happens with these experiences is that they just really provide an opportunity for relationship building in a more relaxed setting that are outside of the confines of like the work talk. It's why we go on dates and vacations with our significant others. It's, you know, to take time away from not just talking about the kids and work and the logistics of cleaning the house and everything else. It's like, hey, you know, it's like going on through your brain and, you know, recognizing people as humans. And those relationships just establish a better sense of belonging. It yields to an increased level of productivity, morale. And I also think, as I mentioned, it just leads to more humanization in the office because one of the types of like experiences that I really like to see at Confetti is companies that allow a plus-one scenario where they allow their, you know, kids, dogs, significant others, roommates to whoever to, to join in on the call. And it's like all of a sudden you're like, oh yeah, like we all have these lives outside of work. These were dog moms or fathers or whatever we are. And it just kind of like reminds us that we're, we're all on a planet like spinning in the middle of nowhere for— and to take things a little bit more into perspective. Yeah.
Lee RubinProportion. If I was putting one of these on, I might be a little bit worried that there'd be too much play and not enough, I want to get this done in the event. What am I getting wrong about my mindset when I'm worried about that?
Lee RubinWell, I think that these events are meant to be pure fun. So, I mean, you should still have some kind of objective or goal, but the objective or goal should be, you know, having people get to know each other a little bit better, like from Like a networking perspective, if you have a very large team, or simply like having fun, or maybe it being de-stressing, and maybe you guys had a really stressful quarter. So this is actually a great time to, to not talk about work. Just make it purely about like the cultural objective that you're trying to achieve amongst your teammates and kind of just Ending to that, but like, we forget that our coworkers are our teammates. But when you're literally teammates with someone on a game, it's this like reminder to take this work stuff just a little less seriously and just strengthening the bond of like the connections, the chemistry that you guys have.
Lee RubinStudio Al here, not interview Al here. Something Lee just mentioned there was about play, and she had that great quote from Plato. I think it was something like, you learn more from an hour of play than a year of conversation. Lee, let's talk psychology here. What is it about play that is different from just chatting to someone or even working next to them?
Leanne ElliottPlay is really, really well researched, which might sound odd, but it's, it's a fundamental part of, of developmental psychology of our childhood. And play is essential for children and adults later on in terms of shaping development, enhancing well-being. So for children— and this is research— so for children, play takes various forms. Trust psychologists to make play boring, but here we go. I'll try and keep it light. So play takes various forms, um, 3 in fact: pretend play, social play, and locomotor play. That's locomotor, not locomotional.
Lee RubinYes.
Leanne ElliottAnd each form of play contributes to cognitive, social, and physical growth. So pretend play fosters imagination and problem solving. Social play teaches communication and teamwork. And locomotor play enhances physical fitness and coordination. So these activities offer immediate benefits for children, such as improved social interaction and cognitive engagement, and long-term advantages as well in terms of problem solving and creativity. So theories from many psychologists, but one you might have heard of, Jean Piaget, pretty well known in developmental psychology. He highlighted that play is a crucial learning tool, helping children understand their world and develop cognitive abilities through stages of cognitive development. For adults, incorporating play into their life is just as crucial because engaging in play can actually— and it's actually been shown to reduce stress, improve mental health, and of course foster creativity. So activities like sports, games, playful interactions at work can enhance teamwork, problem-solving skills, and overall job satisfaction. Play also allows adults to connect with others, think outside the box, and of course maintain physical health. It really is quite interesting. Studies have shown that adults who continue to engage in play are often better at handling social situations, exhibit greater creativity, um, and do enjoy, um, better levels of well-being as well. Um, so yeah, many forms— hobbies, sports, all that good stuff. But yeah, it's true, if you want a balanced and fulfilling life, keep playing.
Lee RubinSo there you have it— pretend. I had to write these down. Pretend, social, and locomotor— are those the different types of play? If you've watched anything from like British TV, it's got something called Taskmaster. Really, really entertaining show where basically they play for about an hour and they do it over, I think, 8 or 10 episodes. Not only has it made the, uh, made the guy who invented it very wealthy, good for you, Alex, but also it is just a really good way you can start to see how these comedians who don't necessarily know each other by the end of it are almost like family. So definitely there's a little bit of proof.
Leanne ElliottIt could be argued as well that, that attending events, socialising in these environments Could well be a form of play. So how do we know online events will work, and what mistakes do people make? Lee has the answers.
Lee RubinThere are a handful of signs, uh, that an organization would, would kind of lead as an indicator and realize that it would benefit from, from an event. But, um, one of them is just like low morale, uh, communication breakdown. So like People feel like the teams just aren't communicating well together. There's just an overall, like, lack of trust within the organization, either between different departments or between upper management and more junior management. If there's high turnover, right? If your retention isn't great. Another big thing is, like, are you— like, are these organizations suffering from, like, different silos or fragmentation? Like, a quote that I often like to tell my team is like, every department is important. We can't succeed as a team if only your department is successful. HR needs to be amazing because otherwise people are going to leave. Marketing needs to be successful, otherwise we're probably not going to have enough revenue to drive into the team. Same thing with sales. And operations need to be successful because if marketing's sales succeeds, but we're not able to operate the business, then what are we doing here? Every department needs to be successful. And so we can't just work in these silos where it's only my team, my department that's important. And it's like an us versus them culture. If you feel like you have stagnant innovation or a decreased level of productivity, all of these can be signs that your, your team needs to shift a little bit more focus on improving I think one of the big concerns I might have if I was putting one of these together is that I'm going to get it wrong.
Lee RubinI'm going to mess it all up. So, can, if I got it wrong, would that actually have a detrimental effect on my culture?
Lee RubinIt's a, it's a good question. And I'm going to say yes and no. I think that there are ways to prevent having bad events, which we can talk about. If you have consistently bad events, like, yeah, I think that that is going to have an effect on your culture. If you come to your team and like vulnerably share with them like, hey guys, I want to do something that's a little bit different. I'm nervous if this is going to be a good event or a bad event. I just want us to come in and try to make the best out of whatever situation, you know, is unfolding for us. And like, all, you know, we'll, we'll put our heads together afterwards. I'll get your feedback on the, on the success of these events, and we'll use that to to improve, then I, you know, I think that there's only positive things that can come from even just like disclaiming something like that. But yeah, I mean, I think that people within this responsibility needs to realize that the quality is very important. And it's not so much that there is a detrimental side, but there's a, there's a lot of upside towards planning really amazing events. And occasional bad events are going to happen. Like, events are— you're leaning on human, on like human, like work, and human work often runs through mistakes. But if you can come with a mindset of just turning every situation into some kind of inside joke, and, you know, I don't know, you guys Scheduled a wonderful yacht party and the yacht never showed up. Like, it's taking that a little bit with like a grain of salt and saying, oh my gosh, remember that time that we ended up stuck like in, in the pier waiting for that yacht that never came? And then we ended up getting, you know, going to a bar and eating like the worst mozzarella sticks on the planet. Like, whatever it is, like, those are the opportunities to just kind of, uh, take those moments and make light of them and be like, okay, well, that wasn't great, but we're gonna, we're gonna try again. And just commit the entire team towards like a positive mindset. The biggest kind of tip on regardless of how you organize and whether one person's responsible for all the organization or that organization is split amongst many different people is just making sure that there's like an accountability, there's a plan, there's a level of commitment, and that you guys have actually thought things through. When culture becomes inefficient with team building, it's when you're trying to do everything ad hoc. And you're like, waiting for culture to be bad. And you're like, you know, it would probably be good if we invested in like an event, or you're like, oh, wow, it's Q4. And we still haven't done anything all year. Let's do a holiday party. Like, culture shouldn't be a once-a-year occasion. So ideally, you'd start the year, you'd really think through, plan it out, understand who's responsible, who's accountable, who are you guys going to just inform, and make sure that if you have that opportunity to try to create a plan, like we have some resources on our website. Um, to help people like ask the right questions to their team to ensure that you're putting a plan together that actually makes sense for your culture.
Lee RubinIs there kind of some kind of inclusive concerns around inclusion? Do you feel that maybe not necessarily DEIB inclusion, but just like if you've got 20 people on a virtual event, would the introverts like me be slightly more likely just to sort of fade into the background and not get involved?
Lee RubinIntroverts doesn't necessarily mean that you're completely unsocial. You just prefer to be with a smaller team. You prefer to have more intimate conversations or relationships. You prefer to have an experience that's more educational and more, more hands-on, like a do-it-yourself, bring-your-own, like a cooking class, a baking class. It doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, you're just like Totally shy in the corner. So there, there are experiences within our platform that really are great for facilitating those more intimate relationships. And by asking the team and surveying them properly in advance, it helps you create that annual plan and make sure that there's something for everyone. It's perfectly okay. Like, I'm thinking to myself, like, if we have a plan, I'm making something up, and one of the options is karaoke. And I just like, I'm like, okay, look, I will come. I will be an amazing audience member. I will cheer you on, but I will not sing. That will totally take me out of my comfort zone. That's okay. And if I decide also that I don't want to show up for this, you know, one event or 2 events, whatever, throughout the year, I think it's also okay. It's just a matter of, you know, trying to cater to a group of people.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Lee Rubinin nature is going to be a little bit challenging. So you do the best with what you can by asking the right questions and putting the right place. So there's a little bit of something for everyone.
Lee RubinYou've talked about what a great event looks like. I'm pretty sure that— I'm sure not at Confetti, but in other situations you've seen events that haven't worked out as well as someone would have hoped. What kind of mistakes are people making when things go wrong? What mistakes are they making when planning an event?
Lee RubinThe first one that I like to start with is that they To have this, like, lack of kind of clear objectives. You know, why are you trying to get the team together? And yeah, the objective needs to be communicated to the team. So in my belief, when a company does an offsite as a remote team, and I'm now investing in that offsite, Our clear objective is I just want you guys to have fun. I just want you guys to meet each other. I just want you guys to have fun. I don't want us to do work during this time period. That's the objective. Like, don't come here to, to figure out your strategy. We can do all of that on Zoom. We've done that successfully on Zoom. It's great. The second thing that I think that people make a mistake on is that they're trying to make everything too democratic by voting at that time. So I like to make things democratic by doing the survey and planning the year in advance. That way there's a little bit of something for everybody. But as soon as I say, hey guys, what do you want to eat today? And you're like, I want Chinese food, and somebody else says tacos, you're now dividing the team. And it always feels like somebody won and somebody lost, like So you want to limit when you're getting people's involvement. You want to plan as much in advance. Another mistake that people do is that they wait too much for the last minute. They plan things that we've had. We have customers who plan things day of. We have, we have customers who plan things, you know, a couple days before. But the reality is, is like our everybody's calendars are really busy. So the, the sweet spot spot that we see is that you want to at least give your team a 2 to 3 week notice. But depending on the experience, especially an in-person event, that can sometimes be months because people need to figure out childcare support or whatever else that they need to really allow themselves the opportunity to be involved. The other mistake that I mentioned earlier is that they're cheap on these events. So they're cheap because they are trying to do everything themselves, which, by the way, is often very expensive. Like, I see CEOs like planning events or heads of HR planning these events, spending countless dozens of hours on it. And you're like, your time means nothing. Like, it's not— it's not— it's— your time is just cheap. Like, no, it should be a professional who's, who's doing this. Is really what's related to the being cheap is like, When we run an event for you, those events have been tested thousands of times. You're not going to beat that on the one time that you've created your trivia question, realizing one of your questions really rubbed people the wrong way and just didn't land right. And it wasn't your intention, but it's just what happened. And then, you know, people kind of get closed off and they get, you know, upset. Another mistake is overlooking any of the logistics. from like scheduling and invitations, which kind of relate to like the ineffective promotion and communication around that event. But when you're doing an event, it's really important to share with the team. So the final mistake is really not seeking feedback, not evaluating what people have to say about the event, and then utilizing that to making sure that you're, you're constantly improving on those experiences.
Leanne ElliottOnline events are perfect for remote or hybrid teams, and Lee's team works exclusively with huge companies who work this way. So I thought it'd be interesting to hear Lee's thoughts on the future of work and whether remote and hybrid are here to stay.
Lee RubinLet's talk a bit more about the future of work, particularly remote work, because I think scanning through your LinkedIn, your last few roles have been related quite, quite tightly to remote work. So what have you seen in terms of remote work trends? And where do you think it's going?
Lee RubinIt's a good question. It's definitely a controversial one because there's definitely lots of schools of thought on what's going on. But I don't know if it's just coincidental in terms of just the people that I surround myself with, but so many people I feel like I speak to are working from home still, right? It's like I'm rarely on calls with people who are in the office. And then even so, I remember I went to New York City recently, And I reached out to so many people being like, hey, I'm in New York City, it would be great to meet up, great to meet up. And after a while, it was like, hey, can we just do this on Zoom? And I'm like, oh, it's so funny how, you know, like, there's an opportunity for us to meet in person, uh, and a lot of people still are like, you know, prioritizing, uh, their, their Zoom meetings.
Lee RubinSo imagine that we've now got a company where there's, let's say, for argument's sake, there's 50 employees. Most of them work remotely. Confetti is in place, so there's regular events and that's all ticked. The boxes have been ticked. They've got the goals, like you said, that's all very, very clear. What do you think they might be missing when they've even got all that in place? What do you think they might be missing compared to being in office or in person?
Lee RubinWell, I will start just by mentioning that I don't believe in this all-or-nothing world. They might be missing in-person events. They might be missing that in-person component. And I think that in-person and remote shouldn't take away from one another. They should supplement one another. So, um, if you're doing in-person, if you're like a hybrid company and occasionally doing in-person events and leaving the remote portion to be the glue that keeps the team together when you guys aren't meeting in person.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Lee RubinOr if you're fully remote, you know, that needs to be your bread and butter is the virtual component, but still meeting up once a year, twice a year, once every other year, whatever your financial, you know, capabilities allow, because it's expensive, especially when your team is internationally, you know, diversified to bring even a team of 20 or 10 people together. We just had an offsite and it becomes very expensive to bring.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Lee RubinThose people together, but it's, it's necessary and it helps morale. I also will say that, like, team building, I think, helps humanize the workplace. Events help humanize the workplace. If you have, like, a crappy boss that you haven't been getting along with and you end up on a team with them and laughing, there are benefits that you might get from, from that experience by feeling a bit more comfortable and seeing them a bit more for who they truly are. But it doesn't replace toxic culture. And toxic culture is something that needs to be worked on. Communication needs to be worked on. Reminding ourselves that, like, these people dynamics and the relationships that we have at work are just hard. I mean, it's hard when you pick the love of your life and you You know, it's hard when you have unconditional love towards your pet or your children. There's still moments of friction with those people that we love so much. And with work, you have even somewhat less control over all the people that you have to work with. So you're, you're really forced to work, work through the shit with people. How else are we gonna try to get through world peace if we can't even get along with our coworkers? I mean, like, come on, gotta start in our circle, in our small circles, in our small communities, and, and see, you know, what impact are we having? What impact am I having that's either positively or negatively contributing towards the people that I'm working with? From a company perspective, I really look at being able to manage a remote team as And if you don't have that skill set, then that's okay. And you don't have to, you don't have to work on it. If you believe that the skills that you have is how to manage culture and people in an in-person setting, then by all means, you know, go ahead and do that. I don't think that there's a right or wrong in that story. And similarly, I think with individual preferences, It's the same thing where each person has their preferences, and it could be that one person just prefers to go in the office. They prefer to work face-to-face with the people that are around them. And there's another person that says, hey, I'm able to get the job done. I don't need to see those people's legs. I can just be on Zoom. I mean, and, and just have a conversation with them. On whatever app they end up using and still get to the same conclusions while I get to pursue, you know, my wanderlust or while I get to take care of my kids or whatever else. And from the company side, they need to find the strategy to make sure that they're recruiting people that fit their values, that want to be in person, and the ones that want to be virtual and remote need to find people with the shared values of how they operate and make sure that those employees also care about working remotely. Because I've made the mistake of hiring somebody who really wants to be in person in a remote work setting. And you're not really going to get anywhere, they, they're going to constantly bring up like, I wish I could see you, I wish I could see you. And you're like, okay, but that's like, not— it's not what we can offer. It's not the kind of business that we have. And people who have really strong opinions on whether they should work remotely or not, if their company doesn't support it, then maybe it's their cue to finally, you know, look elsewhere and find the people that best resonate with their values and culture and way of working.
Lee RubinSo as a millennial, then, Do you think that there's going to be a generation, perhaps the alphas or maybe even the ones after that, who are going to rebel against remote work and be all about, you know, the old boomer idea of we've got to have an office and they're going to rebel because you always seem to rebel against what your parents like. Did you think it would go full circle?
Lee RubinI mean, history repeats itself, as they say. So I'm— it could be. I don't know. I think that there's a world out there that I don't know, maybe I don't know if it's going to be like who, which generation, but maybe they're like, social media, phone, like all of this is so stupid. We're wasting time like staring at the palms of our hands. Like we should be out there sniffing flowers. And I, the new hippie, I'm like all for it. So yeah, I think anything can happen.
Lee RubinSo that is the incredible Lee Rubin with Confetti. That's the website as well, with Confetti. Oh, well, that was a nice link. So go to withconfetti.com. But there's other ways you can find Lee.
Lee RubinThey can visit our website at withconfetti.com, and we have a chat function. They can email us at plan@withconfetti.com. They can call us. They can shoot me a note on LinkedIn. Whatever, whatever medium makes you happy. But we hope We hope you do visit. Uh, I, again, I want everybody's best interest in whatever they want, um, but I, I hope it was a valuable conversation to them at least.
Leanne ElliottSo that is the last episode of our bumper, bumper month of July where we've brought you an interview, an expert interview every, every week, twice a week. There are so many. So if you do have a holiday, a vacation planned for August Go download, make yourself a playlist, binge it. Lovely. Hopefully nothing too heavy, lots of things interesting. And to keep on that theme, we'll be back next Tuesday. Yes, it's back, This Week in Work, our episode where we talk about what we see in the news. I can't imagine what's been going on, what we've missed, but we'll, we'll see what we can cover. And we'll be bringing you some surprise segment that we don't know what it is yet, and the weekly workplace surgery, where I will answer your questions that you might have about work. Um, yeah, I'm personally— I'm looking forward to it.
Lee RubinYeah, you might notice if you go back to YouTube and watch the video in the first— the first video in July and now watch this one, you'll see that we've both got a few more gray hairs. It has been a lot of work to put this together, but we are definitely reaping the rewards next month in August because we have the entire month off. And all we're going to do is on a Tuesday sit down and chat. It's going to be nice. Um, don't expect anything special. Because, because we will have had a week off by that stage, so probably forgotten how to work our mic.
Leanne ElliottAnd nothing heavy, nothing serious. This is all about bringing you lighter, entertaining content in August when you're probably on your holly bobs and don't want to be thinking too much about work. But we will be back in September. We've already got so many incredible people lined up for you. Um, I will give you some clues. Um, sweets, psychopaths, There you go.
Lee RubinThat's, that's a great way to leave it. If you haven't subscribed yet, then it really does help us if you subscribe. It helps us even more if you leave a review. The reason why we go to like number 4 in the Spotify charts is down to people like you who actually say, take a moment just to go, okay, I'll rate this and I'll leave like 3 or 4 words about how, how much they like it. It really does make a huge difference. So if you do enjoy our stuff and you do want to give us back, then either leave a review, subscribe, or Or send us a check. You can— if you contact me, I'll give you my bank details. You can do a direct deposit.
Leanne ElliottDoes anyone have a checkbook these days?
Lee RubinProper boomer move, that, wasn't it? I think that's probably a good time to say goodbye, Lee.
Leanne ElliottGoodbye, Lee.
Lee RubinBye-bye. See you next week. Actually, just do that last bit. Yes. Yeah, do it again from online events.
Leanne ElliottOnline events are perfect for remote or hybrid teams.
Lee RubinIt's good we didn't have any outtakes.
Leanne ElliottOh, I think you can take out, um, hammer time. I'm not sure we need that in the episode.
Lee RubinWell, we'll see if that's gonna— if we can actually take it out. It might be that it's all blended in. I can't— carry on.