Episode 225 · 21 August 2025 · 47:32

The ‘Ta-Da’! Philosophy: Why Fun Could Save Your Workplace, with Joel Zeff

Featuring Joel Zeff

0:000:00

Tip: click any timestamp below to jump there and keep playing.

Chapters & timestamps

Click any timestamp to jump the player to that moment.

Introducing Joel Zeff and the harmonica story
intro#keynote-speaker #improv #humor
Why fun matters at work
interview#fun-at-work #workplace-culture #improv
The math class analogy: finding fun in serious jobs
interview#math-class #serious-jobs #fun
Control vs. passion: what managers get wrong
interview#management #control #passion
Making fun inclusive
interview#inclusion #fun #diversity
What is improv, really?
interview#improv #definition #workplace
Dumb Ass Managers: the fun-eaters
interview#managers #fun-eaters #leadership
The 'Ta-Da!' philosophy
interview#ta-da #philosophy #positivity
Introverts, extroverts, and finding your version of fun
intro#introverts #extroverts #fun
Stories from the stage and taking the first step
interview#stories #keynote #first-step

Show notes

The 'Ta-Da!' Philosophy: Why Fun Could Save Your Workplace — with Joel Zeff

Guest: Joel Zeff — keynote speaker, improv performer, and workplace energy expert who's spoken to over 2,500 groups, including McDonald's, KPMG, and American Express.

Fun at work gets a bad rap. Ping pong tables, forced team-building, "mandatory fun" — we've all rolled our eyes at it. But what if genuine joy and celebration are actually the secret sauce for engagement, retention, and real performance?

Joel joins Al and Leanne for a summer session on why fun isn't a distraction — it's a leadership tool. He shares the story of getting fired from his newspaper job and ending up on a loading dock playing harmonica for the media, how a simple "ta-da!" can rebuild motivation and connection, and why "Dumb Ass Managers" are the ones who eat your fun and destroy creativity.

Forget forced fun. This is about authentic energy, appreciation, and joy — and why they might just save your workplace.

Top 3 Takeaways

Fun isn't the opposite of serious — it's the opposite of disengaged. Even in compliance, banking, or any "serious" industry, there's a way to find connection and joy. The kid in math class who made you laugh? You remember the lesson. Same works at work.
Master your positive support and appreciation. If you can't give appreciation, you can't lead. Saying "thank you" and "you're doing a great job" is the simplest, most powerful tool a manager has — and most managers don't use it enough.
Celebrate the ta-da moments. Whether it's finishing a project, helping a colleague, or nailing a presentation, acknowledging small wins rebuilds motivation, positivity, and connection. You don't need a party — you need a flourish.

More From Joel Zeff

Mention Truth, Lies & Work when you reach out — Joel's got something special for listeners.

Connect With Us

Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect

Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14

Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.

Full transcript

Expand full transcript

Al ElliottI want you to meet Joel Zeff. He's a keynote speaker, an improv expert, and quite possibly the most enthusiastic person you'll ever hear on a podcast.

Joel ZeffMy name is Joel Zeff. I am a keynote speaker. I use improv and humor to talk about choices.

Leanne ElliottJoel's also the guy who, when he got fired from his newspaper job, grabbed his harmonica and did something surprising on the loading dock.

Joel ZeffI found myself on the back loading dock. With the media, radio stations, TV stations, other newspapers. And I had my harmonica and I did— this is a true story— and I went, I lost my job. I got no money. They told me to clean out my desk. I just moved here 6 months ago. I got the newspaper blues.

Al ElliottThat moment taught Joel something quite profound about choosing your attitude during pretty bad situations. So today we're asking, what if the secret to better performance and happier teams isn't more serious leadership training, but learning how to unleash genuine fun at work?

Leanne ElliottJoel's got a 'Ta-Da!' philosophy that might just change how you think about Monday mornings. Plus, he'll tell us about dumbass managers who eat your fun and how not to become one of them.

Al ElliottThis is going to be ridiculously enjoyable.

Leanne ElliottHello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning podcast Where behavioral science meets workplace culture, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a chartered occupational psychologist.

Al ElliottMy name is Al, and I'm a business owner.

Leanne ElliottAnd we are here to help you simplify the science of work.

Al ElliottNow, Joel Zeff has spoken to 2,500 different groups from the likes of McDonald's, KPMG, American Express, Samsung— basically, you name a brand and he's worked with them. And he believes that Celebrating small moments with this hearty ta-da might be the key to workplace happiness. What makes his approach so refreshing is that he's not talking about forced fun or those, like, cheesy ping pong tables. He's talking about authentic energy and genuine appreciation.

Leanne ElliottAfter this quick break, we'll hear Joel's incredible harmonica story and discover what fun really means at work. This is going to be brilliant.

Al ElliottThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.

Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, Marketing already knows the full story, and when you know more, you grow more.

Joel ZeffNice.

Al ElliottCheck out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.

Joel ZeffMy name is Joel Zeff. I am a keynote speaker. I use improv and humor to talk about choices, how we choose to lead with passion, how we choose to celebrate our successes, how we find success during change and disruption. Great teamwork, creating opportunity and positive support. I'm all about energy, fun, and laughter. I wrote a book, Make the Right Choice, Lead with Passion, Elevate Your Team, Unleash the Fun at Work. Probably the greatest business book ever. That's probably what I'm famous for, for probably writing the greatest business book ever published. And, um, I'm also famous, probably the greatest podcast guest ever. Probably, probably the greatest podcast guest. I think fun should be inherent. It should be part of everything that we do. It should be our guiding light. We should love what we do. We should have fun at work, but fun means different things. Fun isn't about pastries and free coffee, and we're gonna play games on a Friday afternoon. That's fun. I love that. But fun is also mentoring someone, making a great sale, um, You know, overcoming a challenge, uh, you know, finding that success. Fun is something different for you and it's something different for me, but you have to find that guiding light, what that fun is, and work toward it. And I hope you're in a situation where your manager, your leader, uh, is creating a foundation for that fun to exist. They're creating opportunity for you. They're being positive and supportive. They're giving you appreciation. That's the magic chemistry I think that creates fun, opportunity, and positive support.

Al ElliottI think the biggest pushback people are going to have from listening to this is I work in compliance for a bank. I put numbers from one spreadsheet into another all day long. How am I supposed to make this fun?

Joel ZeffYou remember math class? And, uh, I hated math. I hated algebra. I hated geometry. But there's that kid right next to you who, when they solve an algebra problem, they've conquered the world. Do you remember that? Do you remember that? And they would solve and they would be so excited and they would just feel this. They'd have this energy in their body language and, you know, nobody would really care or talk to them, but to them, they're pretty excited. That's not my fun, but that's their fun. So fun is many, many different things, and I don't care what job you have, what industry. And I've done, I've spoken to 2,500 different groups and organizations in the US. I've spoken to the IRS, which is the taxman. I've spoken to government agencies. I've spoken to IT and accounting, and you name the industry that you think doesn't have fun, and I promise they do. If you just create that opportunity, we have to have that energy. It fuels us no matter what our job is, whether it's a, you know, um, whether it's a job that's with numbers or it's a technical job, you just have to find what that fun is. Is it mentoring somebody? Is it creating something new? Is it creating a new idea? Is it Creating a sense of team, uh, with your coworkers. What, what, what is that fun? And that should be a guiding light. I, there is time for fun. There's a lot of myths around fun that we're like, one of the myths that you just mentioned, that we're very serious here. We're a very serious company doing very serious work. We can't possibly have fun. That's a dark, depressing thought.

Al ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffThat you're working years in what you think is an industry or job that you can't have fun. You should have fun. What is that guiding light for you? What is it? And if you really are honest with yourself and you answer that, and you ask a question, what opportunity do I need to be fulfilled and rewarded? Because fun is a big part of that. What is that opportunity? Do I want to go to a conference? Do I want more training? Do I want a different responsibility, a different role? What is that opportunity? That's going to be different for me than it is for you. And if you're honest with yourself, and then you tell your manager, your director, and you say, hey, this is what I need to be happy and fulfilled. What do they get back in return if they give you that opportunity? They get a team member that's passionate, energized, going to help them reach their goals. It's a win. And if they don't give you that opportunity, that's a clue. You're in the wrong place. Nothing wrong with that. But I promise somebody down the road is wanting a passionate, energized team member just like you and wants to give you opportunity and wants to give you positive support because they know what they get back in return. And that's going to fulfill and reward you. That's how I started my career. And my, uh, most of my stories at the beginning of my career dealt with murder, Death, destruction, something bad happening to somebody. So that was my whole existence covering these stories. So if I didn't have fun, if I didn't find something fulfilling and rewarding, I would just be, you know, that would just be a very depressing time. And so it's sometimes you have a little bit of gallows humor.

Leanne ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffAnd sometimes it's just having that connection with, uh, your coworkers, but it's finding, finding that fun. And, uh, I'll give you a perfect example of finding fun in, in kind of a, a dark time. So I, I wrote this story. Um, it was, um, it was a, there was a couple, somebody, uh, one person, um, Went missing. I wrote a big story about this missing person. It was very sad. It's a huge headline about this person that was missing. It was very sad. And I talked to, I believe, the husband. And, well, weeks later, it came out that the husband actually committed the crime.

Al ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffAnd I was, it was kind of weird. So I came back to the newsroom and they had, my coworkers had posted the headlines of the original story all over my computer because, you know, in a journalism way, you know, they're kind of making that comment of, look what you fell for.

Al ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffWell, we all fell for it until the police figured it out. And so, you know, it lightened the situation. It made a connection at work. Uh, and it allowed me to focus on the task at hand with a, with a kind of a, a new, a new beginning, a new breath. And, you know, it's finding that moment, those moments where we can connect.

Al ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffAnd, you know, they, it's your coworkers saying, we, we understand the situation you're in. We're connecting with you. We're thinking about you. Um, you know, and we believe in you. And it, it's, you know, it's those little things that make that possible. And it's really, I think, you know, uh, if we, if we just reach out and help people and think about the people around us, We can create that fun and energy with everybody around us. A few months later, after that happened, the paper closed and I lost my job. So that's a terrible moment when you lose your job. So I didn't bring my magic harmonica. I'm traveling right now. And so I, they called me up and said, the paper closed. You lost your job, which that's the worst, right? Come clean out your desk. And so as I'm leaving my one-bedroom apartment with no furniture, I think I had a couch and a bed. Woo. I grabbed this harmonica and I never walked out the door grabbing a harmonica, but for this instance I did. I don't play the harmonica. I don't have any musical ability. I'm tone deaf. But for some reason I said, I lost my job. I should definitely grab my harmonica. on the way out the door when I come clean out my desk. So I go down to the paper, people are crying, they're upset, they're angry, and they're confused. All the emotions that happen when you lose your job. And we've all lost our job, right? We've all had that situation and it's not fun, but you have to choose your attitude. That's what I learned, that you have to choose Your attitude. Yes, this, something terrible just happened to you. I lost my job. I can't control that, but I control my attitude and how I react to that change. That's what improv teaches us and something I really grabbed ahold of. And so I found myself on the back loading dock with the media, radio stations, TV stations, other newspapers. And I had my harmonica and I did, this is a true story. And I went, I lost my job. I got no money. They told me to clean out my desk. I just moved here 6 months ago. I got the newspaper blues. And you could, the, the, you could hear, it was like the movies. You could hear the cameras clicking, click, click, click, click, click. Because that's a new emotion for losing your job.

Leanne ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffYou don't see that often. And, and so it was something different and unique. And that taught me that moment. I wrote about it in my book. It's the 2nd chapter, my, one of my favorite chapters of Make the Right Choice available at Amazon or wherever you purchase books, Amazon UK, wherever your listeners, readers, you control how you react to it. And I learned that by Playing that magic harmonica, I set my attitude and tone and built my confidence. And I discovered really to be who I was meant to be, who I am. I was my true self, creating that energy, being fun, uh, making that moment. And that created a moment for a lot of people. And it's a very, that was my, that's my favorite chapter in the book about how I control, how I reacted to that terrible situation of losing your job.

Al ElliottLet's stick with this idea of control. I think that a lot of managers will be worried that if they allow people to have fun at work, they're A, losing control, B, people are being distracted from what they're actually supposed to be doing, and C, perhaps they're being left out of the fun. I don't know. What would you say to a manager who's just like, I'm not up for this. This sounds like a distraction to me.

Joel ZeffDon't you want your team members to be passionate about what they do, to be energized? That, that's what I want. I don't care whether they're accountants or IT or lawyers or HR professionals or marketing. I want them to love what they do. So my job as a leader is to figure out what my team members need to be happy. First, I think positive support and appreciation. And when you say, how hard is that for your manager? If you can't give positive support and appreciation, you shouldn't even be a manager. And think about all the people you had contact with on the way home. When you go home from work, think about all those people you had contact with. Here's the challenge. And you forgot because you're busy. You're this go-go leader. So you're thinking about it on the way home and tomorrow, give that appreciation.

Al ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffSay thank you. You're doing a great job. Appreciate the hard work. Appreciate what you did there on that project. That fuels us. That is inner, that energizes us. We want that. You know how it feels when someone says that to you. It's a gift and it's the best gift you can give anybody. It barely takes any time. Doesn't take any money. You don't have to put a big PowerPoint presentation together. You don't have to buy free pastries. I think your fictional leader that's worried about creating fun can handle creating positive support. I hope that's one that's going to create fun. Somebody tells me that I'm doing a great job and they appreciate me. I'm going to have fun. That's pretty good. That's a good feeling.

Al ElliottCertainly I might be a bit worried about is if I'm right, okay, we're having fun at work. We're having a great time at work. Everyone's in the right role. Everyone's happy. We're having a great time at work, but then someone goes too far and then they say something they thought was funny but isn't and actually is bad. How do you curb that without taking all the fun out of the room?

Joel ZeffRight. That's a good question. And, you know, fun should be inclusive, shouldn't exclude people, should not offend people, should not be Uh, fun should not be at the expense of others. So those should be our, our, our guardrails really. And, um, when you understand that, and, and I know sometimes people sometimes will say something or do something and then they have to watch an HR video. Sometimes people don't know. They don't know, right? Sometimes people say something and they're like, Yeah. They don't realize that that offends or is at the expense of someone or excludes somebody. And so you have to educate. If it's said with malice, then that's another issue, right? If it's said without malice, then it's about educating and making sure you understand.

Al ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffBut, you know, I think people are genuinely good. That's, I, that's just my philosophy on life is that people are genuinely good and overall good. And, you know, you hopefully made the right hires. And if somebody accidentally says something, it's just about educating that person. But I don't really think that should be our fear. When we talk about this fun, it's not about, we're just all, you know, jumping around and juggling balls and, you know, playing ping pong and like, maybe we'll work for 10 minutes. And that's what I think people, when, when they talk about fun at work, that's, I think that's their first, their mindset is we're playing ping pong and there's free massages, you know, and, you know, there's an espresso machine. Woo! You know, and that's not, all those things are fun. Nothing wrong with any of that. But what I'm focused on is being fulfilled. Making fun is about being fulfilled at work, creating opportunity for each other, uh, being positive and supportive, create, being appreciative. These are the tenets of improv. One of the tenets is asking the question, how do I help the people around me be successful? Because people ask, you know, how does improv work? You're on stage with other performers. There's no script. There's no rehearsal. Everything's happening right there for the first time. So how does it work? Well, it's not about me trying to be the funniest or me trying to be the star. What I'm trying to do is help everybody else. be successful, set them up, and in turn, they're going to help me and set me up. And that's a really important concept that we can take to any work situation. The challenge is asking the question, how do I help the people around me be successful? Answering that, because you know what people need to be successful, your customers, your partners, your vendors, your teammates, you know what they need. The hard part is to act on it. And when you do act on it, we create something really special. Fun is one thing we're creating when we're helping people be successful. I, that brings me a lot of joy when I refer somebody, when I recommend somebody, when I make a connection, that brings me great joy. Am I juggling? Am I playing ping pong? Am I drinking free espresso?

Leanne ElliottNo.

Joel ZeffBut what I've done is I made a connection that brings me fun, that brings me joy. And so, you know, that's what I want people to think about. Are we creating opportunity? Are we being positive and supportive with each other? Are we helping each other be successful? And you don't have to take my word for it. Every time there's a list, great industries, great places to work, um, you know, great companies. They all say the same thing. They, they, they, they may use different words or different phrases, but they're saying the same thing. They're appreciated. They feel like, um, they have a freedom, they have opportunity, you know, they're using these words. And that is what we're doing is we're creating this ecosystem of fun. That's what fun means to me.

Al ElliottYou've mentioned the word improv. So first of all, if someone's not heard of improv, tell us briefly what it is, and then I really want to find out how that seems to form the basis of a lot of stuff you do.

Joel ZeffSo improv, for those not initiated, there's no script, there's no rehearsal, there's no plan. Everything's happening right there on stage for the first time. When I moved to Dallas, which is where I live, to work for the newspaper, the first weekend, some friends took me to an improv show and it was like, it was a movie experience where the music goes, oh, and the light shines because it was, I was drawn to it. It was love at first sight. It was just this amazing connection that I, that I, I was an audience volunteer. I jumped on stage with the performers, uh, when I had an opportunity, not just randomly, like I'm just jumping on stage. They asked for an audience volunteer and I, I love, I fell in love. I mean, deep, deep love. And I didn't know how or why or that I was going to do this. So, and then they said the magical words, we teach improv workshops. And I could not get my money out fast enough. And that was my respite. That was my oasis at this very tough job, which I mentioned, you know, covering dark, you know, murders and crime and terrible things. And that this was my respite. This was my oasis each week to go to this class. And I loved it. And when I lost my job, I started doing standup comedy. And then I auditioned to join the troupe and I just, um, got in with some just incredible performers that are just some of, some, some of the funniest people I've ever met in my life. And, and we just had a ball for years until, till the, till the club closed. And, and so I, one of my clients, I was at the time working at a PR agency and one of my clients said, I know you do improv on the weekends. We're having this executive retreat. Can you come play some improv games with us before dinner? And so all men, VP level, it's an IT company. They, they create notebook computers. So if you're thinking about a group that's ready to have fun and play, this is not the group you would think of, Al. And so I just created the opportunity for play. And so we played some improv games. And they laughed and they had fun because everybody truly wants to play. Sometimes we're just not given the opportunity. And I created that opportunity and I gave them that positive support, which are 2 things leaders have to give to create that fun, opportunity and positive support. And we learned and we started talking about some of the choices that improv taught me. And that was the beginning. And it started evolving and people would ask me to speak and I would play improv games and just have fun and just share my love of improv. And then I started talking about what improv meant to me, what improv taught me about teamwork and leadership and change and innovation and communication. It's because it's a fantastic art form and it just continually evolved until 2,500 events later, I'm on the greatest podcast in the world, Al, Truth, Lies and Work. I said probably so that you can't sue me.

Al ElliottJoel's got a very specific warning about the kind of managers who will absolutely destroy any chance of creating genuine fun at work.

Leanne ElliottHe calls them dumbass managers, and believe me, you'll recognize them immediately. We'll be back after this very short break. Did you know that the UK's number one management podcast— that's us, by the way— and the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?

Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioural science to help people do better at work.

Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.

Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good-looking. And you're not gonna say which. Fel, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in threes—

Leanne Elliottthe HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

Joel ZeffSeamless. Seamless.

Al ElliottTell us about your latest episode, Phil. Uh, we've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioral science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.

Leanne ElliottIt is. It's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?

Al ElliottIt can.

Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?

Joel ZeffI am.

Al ElliottGo and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.

Leanne ElliottCome back.

Al ElliottYeah, come back. Definitely come back, because Nudge isn't as good as this, so come back.

Joel ZeffI'll cut that out.

Al ElliottKeep that in.

Leanne ElliottWelcome back. Let's hear about the managers who eat your fun and then discover Joel's Ta-Da philosophy.

Al ElliottLet me ask you about DAMs, or do you call them DAMs? DAMs? How do you say that?

Joel ZeffFrom the book, Dumb Ass Manager. Can we say that on the podcast?

Al ElliottWe absolutely can, and we just have.

Joel ZeffOkay. Dumbass manager. Um, we've all come across a dumbass manager, and I have a chapter where I kind of talk about different managers that I've encountered in my, in my work and travel. And, and, and I think some of those managers might seem, uh, familiar to some people. And, and the one that you have to really be afraid of is the, the DAM, the dumbass manager. And they're, they're out there.

Leanne ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffAnd what they want to do is they want to eat your fun. They want to eat it and take it. They don't care about you. They don't care about whether you have opportunity or you're being fulfilled or you're receiving positive support and appreciation. I've had dumbass managers. Um, I had one that I stopped talking to. He stopped talking to me first. So I said, well then, okay, I don't, I'm just gonna talk to the principal of the ad agency if I need to talk to anybody. I don't need to talk to you. Uh, there was here, I think it was a bad situation. That job was, was bad from the get-go.

Leanne ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffI did meet my wife there, so I guess Yeah, I guess that would seem pretty positive. We've been married 23 years. And so, you know, that was a tough job. I knew as soon as, like, I knew the first day, I'm like, I made a bad choice here. I remember going in the office, my office, and I had I don't, it was literally the worst office chair. I don't know. It was just, I, the first thing, my first action of my first day was I went into my office and took the office, this nasty office chair and threw it out into the hall. And I asked for a new office chair and they refused. And so I took one from the conference room and I said, you can have this back when you buy me a new chair. That's a true story.

Al ElliottLet's talk, let's talk about ta-da. It seems that every, every video I've watched of you, you at some point use this phrase. So what does it mean?

Joel ZeffDo you say ta-da in the UK?

Al ElliottYeah. I mean, it's, it's generally, it feels like a, like a magician, but more of an old school or old school magician going ta-da.

Joel ZeffYeah.

Al ElliottRight.

Joel ZeffYeah. So ta-da is a flourish, right? And, and, um, you know, you kind of see it every once in a while in commercials or, or, um, shows, I, you know, and, and someone inevitably always sends me a clip, uh, or a photo of somebody saying it. There's a product. Um, there's some products that say ta-da. People spell it different ways. When my kids were younger, Everything was a ta-da, right? My kid, you know, they eat a cheese sandwich and we're like, ta-da!

Al ElliottYou did it!

Joel ZeffYou ate the whole sandwich! You know, they stand up when they were learning to walk and you're like, ta-da! You did it! You stood up! Right? Everything's a ta-da when you're little. Your parents are ta-da-ing you multiple times a day. And the, the child builds confidence. You see it in their eyes, their body language. They get a big smile when you go, ta-da, you did it, right? You're, you're giving them appreciation. You're giving them positive support. It fuels whatever they're doing. They're going to do more of. And so we have these moments, even though we get older, we still have ta-da moments. We just don't celebrate them. We just think it's our regular day-to-day activity, whatever we're doing, we're marketing, we're accounting, we're doing HR, we're doing IT. Well, this is what I was hired to do. I don't need to celebrate this. And you should, because that fuels our passion, fuels our creativity. It fuels our ability to be great communicators and great teammates and great leaders. And so my philosophy is that we have to celebrate these moments. Being on this podcast, Huge ta-da moment, right? Uh, everything, we have these moments and we have to celebrate. You know, when I send emails, I end every email with a ta-da. If you go back and look at any email that I sent you, I bet it ends in a ta-da. It might even started with a ta-da, right? We're celebrating. And I think it's a philosophy. And in my keynotes, the first thing I do is have the whole audience stand up.

Leanne ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffAnd on the count of 3, we just all big ta-da, and people love it. And, and then people will come up to me randomly throughout. If they see me in the hall, they'll ta-da. In the bathroom, that's the only time I don't want a ta-da. I don't want a ta-da in the bathroom. I think we forget to celebrate. We forget to celebrate these moments. We forget to celebrate, uh, you know, that we're here, that we're working together, that we're hopefully doing something that brings us joy, that helps other people, that creates something that we believe in and that we're passionate about. And so we have to celebrate these moments because it fuels us. And ta-da is the way I explain that concept. Ta-da!

Al ElliottNot everyone is quite as extroverted or as fun-loving on the outside as you and perhaps me. So If you are in a situation where you have encouraged the majority of people to have fun, but there's still some people who are perhaps a little shy, perhaps a little introverted, perhaps feel uncomfortable about it, should we be actually going out there and trying to pull them into the fun, or is that going to make things more complicated?

Joel ZeffThat's a very good question. You know, I bring audience volunteers up on stage and my clients always ask, well, there's, you know, Bob from accounting. Bob's not going to get up on stage. I'm like, I don't want Bob to come up on stage. I want Bob to enjoy it the way he enjoys it. And if, as long as Bob's in the room, I hope Bob's going to get something out of it. I don't need Bob to jump on stage and play an improv game with me. I don't want anybody to do something they don't want to do. I mean, we are getting out of our comfort zone. That's where we learn. You know, we learn outside of our comfort zone. But I don't, I don't need Bob to jump on stage. If Bob's not comfortable with that, I get it. And not everybody's going to be me. I get it. But what I don't want to do is exclude people from, you know, from the opportunity. I'm going to give you the opportunity. You choose to jump on stage. You choose to participate. If you choose not to, that's, that's up to you. If you want to Watch. I hope you get something out of it. I think you'll get more out of it if you join us, but I can't make you. And so, but I don't want to say, Al, you need to leave. You're not welcome. You're absolutely welcome here. And I want you to enjoy it at your pace, at your speed. And I think you're going to get something out of it. And I want you to feel included, and I want you to feel that you have the opportunity and that I believe in you. And I think that's what leaders have to think about. Not everybody's going to be jumping around, and I'm not asking you to jump around, but what does that person— the leader, the manager needs to go to that person and say, what makes you happy? What makes you fulfilled? What can I do? What opportunity do you need that's going to really make you happy and fulfilled? And they're going to give you, I hope they give you an answer. And as a, as a manager, then you provide that opportunity and they're going to have fun. It's, again, their fun is different than my fun. I'm not asking everybody to jump around and sing songs and play a harmonica. But I want to find out what makes you happy, what makes you fulfilled. And I want to create that opportunity for you. And that's the job of the manager because everybody's different. Everybody's coming at it from a different perspective. But I want, again, that's the manager making sure that it's inclusive. We're going to have this awesome, uh, we're going to have this, uh, we're going to do something that's fun and energizing. And I want you to participate, but if you feel more comfortable watching, then, then I want you to do that. I don't want, I want you, but I want to include you.

Al ElliottIs there a particular moment that sticks in your mind from all the thousands of clients you've worked with, all the thousands of speaking engagements you've done?

Joel ZeffI have many, many stories and I love when someone after my keynote comes up to me and says, Anne from accounting, that she jumped on stage with you. I never believed that she would one, ever volunteer, ever jump on stage, ever imitate a ballerina, a bull rider, and an astronaut on stage. She never showed any of that. And that surprised me. And that happens almost every time I present. Is that somebody jumps on stage and surprises— you didn't expect it. Because I just, again, create the opportunity. I'm very positive, very supportive. The audience is laughing and applauding. And what happens is the people on stage do more. They take more risks because they're receiving that positive support. That's an amazing chemistry. But every time I present, somebody says, I can't believe Anne did that. I can't believe Lisa did that. I can't believe Steve did that. And it's just about creating that opportunity. Um, one funny story that I, I wrote about in the book was my favorite introduction, and his name was Bob. His name was actually Bob. Uh, Bob was an older gentleman and, uh, he was reading the introduction. This is about 500 people in the, in the ballroom. I'm standing on the side ready to Jump on stage and have fun. Bob's got this sheet of paper. He's reading the introduction. One problem is that Bob is reading the introduction of the speaker from the day before, and his name was Scotty, and Scotty was a magician. And Bob is reading this introduction with gusto. We are going to just be amazed by Scotty the magician. And I'm like, what is happening? And no one in the audience, there's no murmur. There's nobody going, wait, we saw Scotty yesterday. Why, why, why is Scotty back? Nobody's saying anything. So I don't know if anybody attended Scotty's session or not. And I'm trying to get the, I'm trying to get the attention of the executive director and I'm pointing to the stage like, what's going on? He's not listening. He's got a million things going on in his head. He's not listening. And he's like, what? Things are good. Yeah, it's a good introduction. And so I'm trying, luckily Scotty the Magician's introduction was really long. I have a short introduction. So Scotty's introduction was long. So Bob was just reading about all the accolades of Scotty the Magician. And I realized my microphone was on. And I said, uh, I said, Bob, really loud. I went, Bob. And Bob just kind of, you know, startled. You know, I'm like, Bob, I go, you're doing an awesome job with the introduction. Incredible. Uh, one issue, just a small, small note. You're reading the introduction from the speaker yesterday, Scotty the Magician. My name is Joel. I'm the speaker today. Any chance you could read my introduction? The audience just cracks up. They're laughing. I mean, it's just, it's, it's, it's just pandemonium. And Bob is just completely startled. The executive director jumps up and it's kind of like a movie scene, you know, where the, like a comedy, like a Buster Keaton and papers are like flying around. And so the executive director's at the lectern and like papers are just flying around like a cartoon looking for my introduction. And he grabs it and he gives it to Bob. The audience is just dying laughing. And I, I'm still going. I'm just, I'm just.

Al ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffI'm just shoveling coal into the fire at this point. And I'm saying, I'm like, Bob, I could try to do magic, but I'm not good. I'm not good at magic. I go, I could try. And, uh, so Bob finally reads my introduction. The audience, it, it, what it did was, if this could happen every time I did a keynote, that would be great.

Leanne ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffBecause it just created this immediate connection with the audience. And they were just, just ready to laugh and to have fun. And then I made a big point, uh, about Bob, um, staying in the game, which is a big message of mine, is that you don't give up, you don't quit. It's the only, the only thing improv won't allow you to do. It won't allow you to quit. And Bob did not quit. Bob did not just run off stage and like, well, forget it, that someone gave me the wrong introduction. He stuck with it and he read my introduction with just as much gusto as he read Scotty the Magician's. And I made a big point that, that I was very proud of Bob and the audience gave him a big round of applause. And I also said, Bob, I just want you to know one thing. It's not your fault at all. It's that guy's fault. Gave you the wrong introduction. That guy right there. That guy, that's his fault. Again, the audience laughs and just made this connection. I love, uh, it was just, you know, people ask me, you know, do you, what, what happens if things go wrong or something happens? I'm like, I'm just, I'm like a shark with chum in the water. I can't wait for something like that to happen. That's, these are, this, these are the magic moments. This will never happen again. And And the audience knows it's a magic moment. That's what we're after in improv. That's what we're after. We're after these magic moments that we create with other performers. There's no script, there's no rehearsal. And we're trying to find this perfect moment that just makes this connection with the audience, with the performers, that is just absolutely incredible, that we know is just happening. This lightning in a bottle that's just happening in this moment. And you know, it's happening, you know, when it's happening and it, you get, you know, little goosebumps and your hair stands up and you just know your whole physical body. You just know this moment is happening. And those are really the special moments. And I'm after those moments. I'm seeking them out every time I jump on stage for a client when I'm presenting a keynote and we're having fun, we're laughing. And we're creating these moments, but we're also, I think it's important to understand that we're talking about these really powerful messages that help us be great teammates and great leaders and great communicators. And these choices that help us find our guiding light, to be passionate, to create fun at work, to find success during change and disruption, that we're talking about these choices, but I just choose to talk about them through play and fun. Because I think people are more engaged, they're more open to the message, and they're going to retain the message because they're having fun, they're laughing, and that creates a very powerful combination.

Al ElliottAbsolutely. They're given lots of choices, but they're making the right choice, which is the name of your book. When's it out? Tell us.

Joel ZeffThat was That might be the brown liquid talking. Um, make the right choice, lead with passion, elevate your team, and unleash the fun at work. Everything that we talked about on the podcast, I talk about in the book in much greater detail. Each chapter has lots of ideas, games that you can play to create fun at work, things that you can do to find, to help you discover your guiding light, to focus on your fun. To be a better teammate, a better leader, a better communicator. And I hope you have fun along the way when you read the book. We're talking about these great messages about creating opportunity and the importance of positive support and staying in the game, being more present in the moment, helping the people around you be successful. But I tell stories and I want you to have fun. I want you to laugh because that's what I'm all about. If I create that fun and energy for you, the reader, I think you're gonna be more engaged in the message. And the book's available everywhere internationally.

Al ElliottSo if someone's listening, they go, this sounds amazing, Joel. I really wanna be the person you are telling me I should be, but it just seems like a huge gap between where I am now, which is something of a wallflower, to where I wanna be, which is the person who introduces fun at work. How do I start?

Joel ZeffEverybody has to take the first step. And once you take the first step, then you take the second step and the third step. And you know, the baseball player, the football player, they weren't great the first day they touched a ball. So you have to take that first step and a week goes by and 2 weeks go by, a month goes by and everything that you're putting into it adds up. And I think it's just about taking that first step. You, you might make mistakes. It's okay. We want to minimize them. We want to learn from them. Improv embraces the mistakes. We want, we don't be afraid to make that mistake. Don't be afraid to take that risk. That's what improv is about. We want you to embrace and take that first step. And just like with everything.

Leanne ElliottYeah.

Joel ZeffIt gets easier, uh, after on the 2nd step and the 5th step and the 10th step and the 100th step, it gets easier and you become more comfortable and you, uh, become more confident, but you have to take that first step and you don't have to reinvent the wheel. You can Google fun at work or ideas to bring joy at work. And, um, you know, There's a million articles will jump up, a million podcasts. And so I think it's just making that first step important. That's the first step is creating that positive support, creating opportunity, helping the people around you be successful. And asking your team members, what makes you happy? What makes you fulfilled? What can I do to bring that to to you? And you're going to be surprised what the answer is. And you're going to be surprised how easy it is for you to give them that opportunity to create that happiness, to create that fulfillment. And believe me, fun's a big part of all of that.

Al ElliottUh, if people want to go and learn more about you, is it joelzeff.com?

Joel ZeffYes, that's perfect. And anybody, uh, mention, uh, Truth, Lies, and Work podcast, mention Al, uh, send me a note through my website, and I will send you a free chapter of my book, Make the Right Choice. So I'm gonna send you a chapter about change and embracing change and being more open and flexible to change and finding success during change and disruption. It's a beautiful PDF with lots of photos of me looking goofy, and, uh, would love to send that free chapter. Just send me an email through the website and, uh, mention the awesome Truth, Lies, and Work podcast. By Al Elliott.

Leanne ElliottThat was Joel Zeff. Let's wrap up with our top 3 takeaways for leaders who want to bring this genuine fun and energy to their teams. And of course you do. Lesson 1, you knew this already, regular listener, fun isn't about ping pong tables, it's about fulfilment. Ask your team what makes them happy and create opportunities for that.

Al ElliottYeah, lesson number 2 is master your positive support and appreciation. Like Joel says, if you can't give appreciation, you shouldn't even be a manager. Think about everyone you interacted with today. Did you give them the appreciation they deserved?

Leanne ElliottAnd lesson 3, celebrate the ta-da moments. Whether it's finishing a project or helping a colleague, acknowledge it to make it visible.

Al ElliottAs we said at the top, Joel's approach isn't about forcing enthusiasm. It's about creating the environment where people can bring their authentic energy to work.

Leanne ElliottYou can find Joel at joelzeff.com. That's J-O-E-L-Z-E-F-F.com. zeff.com and mention Truth, Lies and Work for a free chapter off his book.

Al ElliottSo that is all for today's summer edition. Keep celebrating those ta-da moments, and we're gonna see you next week.

Leanne ElliottTa-da!

Al ElliottBye-bye.