Episode 222 · 12 August 2025 · 55:13
Ask old people! Answering Reddit’s funniest nostalgia questions - Summer Sessions Episode 3
Ask old people! Answering Reddit’s funniest nostalgia questions - Summer Sessions Episode 3
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Back in our day… the AOL era begins
Reddit's Ask Old People thread — picking numbers
Question 11 — what instantly earns your respect?
Question 6 — what do you wish younger generations knew?
Question 13 — what happened faster in old age than expected?
Were people more relaxed before the 2000s?
Question 15 — do people who go through extreme trauma become stronger?
Question 8 — ban one question from ever being asked
Behaviours we no longer tolerate
Quick-fire — old people sayings, oldest email addresses, and cringe work habits
First experiences with computers
Finding a song name before Shazam
Show notes
Ask Old People! Answering Reddit's Funniest Nostalgia Questions — Summer Sessions Episode 3
This Week in Work — It's week three of Summer Sessions, and in the same week AOL dial-up finally went quiet, Al and Leanne are taking a trip down memory lane with help from Reddit's Ask Old People thread.
Armed with gin, sunscreen, and questionable wisdom, they answer some of the internet's best nostalgia questions — from "what's a behaviour you no longer tolerate" to "how did we find out a song name before Shazam?" Plus, they unpack the workplace quirks, fashion crimes, and tech disasters that shaped their early careers.
🔥 What We Cover
📌 Back in our day… From office smoking rooms to fax machine rage, Al and Leanne share the work habits and cultural norms they're glad to leave in the past — including the era of the carbon copy and why "CC" in an email makes total sense once you know the history.
📌 Career curveballs The 'Plan B' moments that turned out better than Plan A — and why it's worth embracing the detours. Spoiler: for both of them, the podcast was never the original plan.
📌 Finding music before the internet Yes, it involved cassette tapes, patience, and sometimes a lot of guesswork. Top of the Pops on a Thursday night never felt so high-stakes.
📌 What really earns respect The small but meaningful actions that instantly win over colleagues and leaders — genuine curiosity tops the list.
📌 Stress that didn't exist What younger generations worry about now that simply wasn't on the radar growing up — and why asynchronous communication is both a blessing and a curse.
💬 Quick-Fire Nostalgia
- What old people said when we were kids
- The oldest email addresses we still have (yes, AOL makes an appearance)
- Work habits that made us cringe
- First computer experiences — including one that took two people to carry
- What a treasury tag is (for the kids at home)
- How we identified mystery songs before Shazam existed
🧠 Support with Mental Health and Well-being
- Mind UK: mind.org.uk/information-support
- Samaritans (UK): Call 116 123 or email jo@samaritans.org
Connect With Us
Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
Expand full transcript
Leanne ElliottHello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture. We are brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne, I'm a Chartered Occupational Psychologist.
Al ElliottMy name is Al, I'm a business owner.
Leanne ElliottAnd together we usually help you simplify the science of work, but as it's summer, we're doing things a little bit differently.
Al ElliottYeah, if you listen to the last few episodes, you'll know that we tend to do them on our terrace, Uh, with perhaps an adult beverage, um, and much more relaxed. And we try not to talk about stuff which makes you think too hard, so just a bit more silly. I mean, we're never really the most serious of podcasters, are we?
Leanne ElliottNo, but if you're listening to this lying on a sun lounger in the glorious Bulgarian sunshine, um, then one, hi, look us up, we're very near.
Al ElliottYeah, we're in Bulgaria.
Leanne ElliottBut also, yeah, um, on one hand Do you really want to be listening to a podcast on your holidays? On the other hand, I'm sure you've actually specifically tuned in because you know that this is the podcast you do want to listen to when you're on your holidays.
Al ElliottAnd those of you who are astute enough to realise, perhaps old enough to realise, that the theme tune was slightly different today because this is the— it is 30 years ago AOL introduced something called dial-up internet. Kids won't know this, but you'd be like, Mum, Get off the phone, I'm on the internet! That's what used to happen. And that was what you used to hear whenever you dialled up. So, it went away this week, so they closed it down. And so there's no more dial-up in the US. I'm not sure it's done. It may still be in the UK and other places, but not in the US.
Leanne ElliottI don't know, but I will miss that dong da dong. Welcome to AOL. I remember that was the first internet we had was AOL. So we thought, as it's making us feel a little bit old, We'll run with it. So I came across a subreddit called Ask Old People, and some of the questions were brilliant. So I've picked some at random. Al's gonna— and Al and I are gonna answer them.
Al ElliottAfter this very short break. We'll see you in a second. The dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, Because why? HubSpot connects it all—every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation—into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more. Nice.
Al ElliottCheck out HubSpot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
Leanne ElliottOkay, so if you are. Maybe our age. We're in our 40s.
Al ElliottYeah, Leanne's 40. I'm 47. Yeah, 47.
Leanne ElliottAnd we don't think, we don't feel particularly old.
Al ElliottNo.
Leanne ElliottEqually, we're very aware to our Gen Z workforce colleagues, we're really fricking old.
Al ElliottWe're ancient. We're dinosaurs.
Leanne ElliottAnd I think as well, because of the age we are, we do remember probably more than younger millennials. I'm still classed as a millennial. But more so than younger millennials. I remember what life was like pre-computers, pre-internet. And because of that, I do feel a bit old.
Al ElliottYeah, exactly. I went to— I graduated school in 1993, which is before most, before most, in fact, before any Gen Z was born. Yeah, a long time before. So, yes, we have. So, we thought we'd just go through, and was it a subreddit you found?
Leanne ElliottSubreddit called Ask Old People, and there's some brilliant ones on there. I tried to pick the ones that Oh, somewhat work-related, um, or just interesting, maybe more, yeah, reflections on life, and some are just a bit silly. So, I've got 19, Al. I've numbered them 1 to 19. Do you want to pick a number?
Al ElliottYep, we will choose number 11.
Leanne ElliottNumber 11.
Al ElliottYou know, you're not allowed in bingo to say the, say legs 11 and, you know, that kind of thing anymore.
Leanne ElliottThat's what they used to do in the bingo halls.
Al ElliottBingo, all right. Anyway, sorry, carry on.
Leanne ElliottNumber 11, what's something a young person can do to instantly earn your respect? Oh.
Al ElliottI know exactly what this is. If they ask an interesting question and shut up and listen to it, listen to the answer. I think that there's so many— the problem, the problem with young people these days is, but I think that a lot of people, because they've grown up having access to all of the information, they don't really value information. And I think there's a huge difference between information, as in stuff that ChatGPT can give you, and wisdom, which is someone who has actually Yeah, who's actually lived it and usually messed it up. Um, so yeah, that's, that's mine. What have you got, one?
Leanne ElliottI was, I was thinking something similar, like curiosity, genuine curiosity. Um, and yeah, ask— yeah, exactly that, asking questions and actually wanting to, to hear the answer. And I think that as well, particularly as you get older, you want to still feel relevant. So particularly to a younger person to ask you a question they genuinely want the answer to. Um, and you know what, people in general, I respect people who are curious.
Al ElliottAnd also, I think if you, if you are genuinely asking, don't do this, don't pretend to be curious because we'll, we'll see through that. We're twice your age, sonny. We, we will see through that. But if someone does ask a question and they're genuinely curious, then one, that makes us feel good that we are still relevant. But two, it also shows that they're interested in learning about The— about the wisdom behind something, about how things have evolved. Because like we say, with ChatGPT now, I feel like you almost get Diet Coke information from ChatGPT, and you don't really get the whole like, okay, well, this is the answer, but this is why the answer is the answer. And I think that someone who asks that— A lot of people say that the future is like history just repeats itself or whatever. And so that's why a lot of historians are very good business people, because they've understood that There's really only like 6 motivating factors in the world, or 6 things that can happen. But anyway, I'm doing an old person waffle. You're giving me those eyes. Carry on.
Leanne ElliottNo, I think that's a nice summary. Curiosity, essentially.
Al ElliottAbsolutely. So, do you want me to pick another number?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al Elliott6.
Leanne ElliottGenerations in the workplace. I've deleted the actual question.
Al ElliottYou've deleted it?
Leanne ElliottI did. There was another little thing to it. I think it was something like, What do you wish younger generations knew about older generations in the workplace?
Al ElliottOh, that's kind of similar to the last one, but I, maybe this is just one of those like envious things, but I wish that, wish that people knew that it was really freaking difficult to get information and data back in the day. There used to be a couple, like there'd be whole departments whose, whose idea, whose job was just to put together spreadsheets and put together reports of people, and often you wouldn't have a clue what's going on. You know, dashboards, there's only a relatively new thing in dashboards. So I kind of wish that people knew that it was really pretty hard to make a decision back in the day, and a lot of it had to be on gut instinct, and also probably lots and lots of meetings. But that's a bit of a wishy-washy answer. Have you got a better one?
Leanne ElliottI think it would be for any young person who's feeling a bit overwhelmed or unsure is, I promise you, the vast majority of us have no freaking idea what we're doing.
Al ElliottYes.
Leanne ElliottNo idea what we're doing. We might have a slightly better idea than you do because you've got 20 years more experience, but we really, we really don't, don't have that much more of an idea. And also what I really, I think that I was, I was, I did fall into the trap of in my earlier career, particularly as a woman, perhaps when I was kind of starting my career, which would've been in the noughties, is I had this idea that, oh, people will take me seriously when I'm older. They're just not taking me serious now because I'm young. And I think that is one, I can promise you, people do not take you more seriously when you're older. They still find ways to not take you seriously if they don't want to. But I think it can feed into your sense of confidence in your ability and what you can bring. So, I think it would be to know that as a young person, you have so much value to bring to all workplace situations and ignore all the noise around Gen Z and young millennials and slacking off and blah, blah, blah. Um, we all have a lot more in common than, than you think.
Al ElliottYeah. And the reason why us older people look like we might have got it together is because we've had 20 years more time to make the same mistakes you're about to. And so it's not a question of us knowing more. It's a question of us having tried a lot of other things and they've not worked out. Yeah. Do you want to pick a number then?
Leanne ElliottI will go with number 13.
Al ElliottUnlucky.
Leanne ElliottWhat's something that happened much more quickly in old age than you were prepared for? Becoming irrelevant. Yeah. I didn't, I don't, I'm not sure at what point it seemed to happen overnight that I went from being like fairly cool finger on the pulse, knowing what's going on to now feeling like there's an entire generation who just thinks I'm cringe. Like, when did that happen?
Al ElliottSorry, you asking me? Yeah. You, I think you're still cool, but then I'm old, so yeah. My, mine is switching cost. Mine is when, you know, when you're doing a task or you're doing something and then someone comes along and says, oh, can you just grab me that thing? And you go and you find it on your hard drive or you find it wherever, and then you go off and you give it back to them and you get back and you go, hang on a minute, what the hell was I doing? And I find it so, especially if you're doing something which is relatively complex where you have to hold lots of things in your head. Like classic examples, when we're putting together our Thursday episodes, when I'm doing that episode, I have to hold all of the, all of everything the interviewer said in my head so that we know, I know that when we interrupt them back in the studio, it all fits in together. It's boring, boring, boring. But that is something where if I get interrupted, then I just lose it and I have to go back to like almost to square one and just go, okay, I'll read through the interview again. Switching cost. Maybe it's just me, but it's massively, massively, um, it's a big problem for me. Yeah.
Leanne ElliottYeah, no, I think it is. I think just your general energy levels as you get older, and I'm not sure whether it's because you've got more aspects of life that require your energy, whether it be in terms of your finances or things that are going on with family or, yeah, just general life admin takes up more room than I expected it to when I was young. I probably didn't realise how little life admin I had in my early 20s.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottSo, I think, yeah, we're just, generally speaking, our attention is more split across different areas. So, finding that focus time in work. And also, I think as well, there's much, there's a lot more distractions work-wise than there used to be. Like when I started work, I didn't have a mobile phone for work. I only had a computer in the office. So, if, for example, I was thinking a work problem through at home, as you tend to, There was no other real distractions. It wasn't like your phone was going off or you just had that deep, literal space away from work to think something through. Whereas now as well, you've got Slack pinging every 5 minutes and emails pinging all the time. And yeah, there's lots of things to steal your attention away.
Al ElliottYeah. And I think the, they call it asynchronous communication, is it? I can't remember. What does that mean? Is that the one where it's Slack?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottYeah. So asynchronous communication, it's like both a blessing and a curse because it means, great, you could in theory just ignore everyone for 8 hours. Then at the end of the day, go and answer your messages. But then you're gonna probably find someone who's sent you 16 messages going, where the hell are you? And then they're gonna call you and then they're gonna, well, they're not gonna call you if they're millennial or Gen Z, but then they're going to come and find you. So yeah, it's, yeah, it kind of was a simpler time.
Leanne ElliottIt was. It was. Speaking of which, there was a question that was similar, actually. Let me find it when we're on the subject. Yes, number 19. Were people more relaxed before the 2000s? The follow-up was, I've heard before that people used to be more relaxed back in the days before the 2000s. Is that true? I'm not sure people were more relaxed necessarily, but I think they had clearer Mm-hmm. Of what was work time and what was relaxation time. I think about my dad, you know, my dad had a fairly kind of high-pressure job that would require him to be on call and things like that. He was an electrical engineer, high-voltage substations were his world. So, you know, if there was a weather event, then he would be on call and he'd have to go in to make sure that, you know, Manchester still had electricity. But that was rare. And it was literally like what you call it, like an act of God, isn't it? Like a freak weather event. Whereas when we were on holiday, he didn't have a mobile phone. He didn't have a laptop. There was no way of anyone from the office contacting him unless they wanted to actually phone the hotel he was staying in or send something via mail, which people just wouldn't do.
Al ElliottNo, you wouldn't do that.
Leanne ElliottSo, for him, I think he had a very high-stress job. But I had very clear times where it would be work isn't even accessible to me right now. I can't even check that email if I wanted to. So, I think maybe people maybe had a bit more balance, a bit more, their rest and recovery time was more effective perhaps. So, during those times, the people probably were a bit more relaxed.
Al ElliottYes. And also to a certain extent, you were limited by capacity. Because my dad used to bring home paperwork and he had like, you know, a 1980s old school briefcase, which meant that you are literally limited to the amount of stuff you can bring home. Whereas if you are at home, then you, you, and you're working, you likely have got everything on Dropbox, OneDrive, whatever it's gonna be. You've got access to everything. So in theory, someone says, can you do this thing for me? You can't go, well, I've not brought it home with me because it's gonna be in the cloud and you'll be able to access it. So it was almost like a capacity thing and a, and I think there was a double thing because I think my dad was very stressed and I remember him working Saturdays and at the dining room table and late into the evenings, probably same as your dad. So maybe they weren't quite as relaxed. It was maybe the problem might be that it took longer to do anything because you were doing things in triplicate. I remember my dad having these, like, these, what do you call them? Carbon, like, copy things?
Leanne ElliottYeah, yeah.
Al ElliottSo young kids, if you're wondering what CC stands for in an email, it stands for carbon copy. And they used to carbon copy someone in. So you just usually used to literally write a memo on one piece of paper, it would go through a carbon copy into 2 others, and then one would go to the person, and then one someone else would go to their secretary or admin assistant, and then someone would go into the file or something. So anyway, blast from the past. Sorry, what was the question again?
Leanne ElliottPeople more relaxed before the 2000s. I think probably overall, I think yes. I think overall yes, but in certain periods of time.
Al ElliottYeah. And I think that we all thought that the internet and mobile phones, everything was gonna make— was gonna be the answer. We all thought AI was gonna be the answer because then you'd be like, well, life's gonna be so much easier. I've got someone defer all my tasks to that. Wouldn't it be so much easier if I could just quickly check something up on On the company drive, you know, what were our sales figures last quarter? Type it into, you know, into your database and it brings you up. You didn't have to go down to the records department and go and speak to Marjorie, who was generally about a 90-year-old woman who would be in charge of the records. You didn't have to go and do that. So you'd think, oh, it's gonna make things easier. But in actual fact, no, it's kind of done the opposite because there's the expectation that it's simple to look up a document. So therefore, why wouldn't you say to someone, oh, do us a favor, Well, I know it's Saturday, but just look up that document and send it to me.
Leanne ElliottYeah, absolutely. And also the things that are lost in that interaction, the actual having to walk, take a break away from what you were doing, really great for, for refocus and those micro opportunities to rest and recover. Having a conversation with Marjorie, relationships, one of the best ways that we can, we can build our sense of connection and wellbeing and belonging. So, there's all those little moments that used to be part of everyday working life that are now completely taken away. Because it's all, it's all just behind the computer screen.
Al ElliottYeah. And also, you wanted a coffee or a sandwich, you went to the coffee shop or the sandwich shop. You didn't get on Uber Eats and get it delivered to your desk. So you had, like you said, you had that micro-break.
Leanne ElliottAll this convenience is basically just giving us more opportunity to work.
Al ElliottYes. Yes, absolutely. So, talking of work, should we have one more before the break?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottWhat have you got there, Le? Or do you want me to choose a number?
Leanne ElliottYeah, choose a number.
Al ElliottUh, let's go for number 2.
Leanne ElliottNumber 2. What plan B did you choose after 30 that ended up better than your original plan?
Al ElliottI think we might both have the same answer here. What's yours?
Leanne ElliottPodcast.
Al ElliottMe too. Podcast. Yeah. And I even trace it back to the original travel podcast to a certain extent, because although we weren't doing that for commercial reasons, that sowed the seed of doing, what, 120, 160 episodes on that? That sowed the seed for this one, which made this one a lot more straightforward to To get set up and get started. So yeah, the podcast, I think we went, well, you tell the story. When we first decided we wanted to do the podcast, what was it going to be?
Leanne ElliottIt was a marketing stream. It was a way for us to promote the consultancy we do through our consultancy Oblong. And then we got picked up by HubSpot Podcast Network really early on, maybe 7, 8 episodes in. And what an amazing opportunity because we were on the accelerator program. We're given access to all these resources and opportunities and funding. So, it then became something that was, it wasn't even a plan B, it was just something we did, a marketing play, then actually became plan A because this is a really great way to build something cool and make a living from it as well. So, yeah, I guess it was a plan B because with A Sideways Life, which was our first podcast, it wasn't that we ever started that with a view to monetize it because we started it as a way to just record.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne Elliottwhat we were doing, traveling and living abroad. But I think there was a part of both of us that thought, well, there's a brand, it could be something at some point.
Al ElliottAnd still could be.
Leanne ElliottAnd still could be. So yeah, the podcast.
Al ElliottWell, I've got another one actually, which is kind of weird because when I first started my second business, and my first business was a load of rubbish, didn't know what I was doing. Second business I started was this Gimme Some Beer business I talked about 2 or 3 weeks ago. where we delivered alcohol to 24 hours. Basically, it's Uber, but for alcohol. And this was 2002. And I got it completely wrong and I went bankrupt and I got 2 houses repossessed. So my plan A was to turn that business into, I wanted one of, one Gimme Some Beer in every single town in the UK, university town in the UK. It was gonna franchise, it was gonna be huge. That went the wrong way. And then my house got repossessed and then I learned about repossession. And then I started a company that helped people who were getting repossessed. And we basically bought the house and rented it back. And that's what really gave us our wealth, I suppose. Um, and so that was my plan B, which turned out to be, I think, and that was funny enough, that was around 30, 31, I think that happened. So yeah.
Leanne ElliottYeah. Yeah. What is it? That cliché saying, but life's what happens when you're busy making other plans. Anyway, you said something about a breakout. We need, we need to put in our ad so our lovely people at HubSpot continue to Pay for our life.
Al ElliottYeah. So we'll see you in just a few seconds. You know the drill.
Leanne ElliottDid you know that the UK's number 1 management podcast— that's us, by the way— and the UK's number 1 marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioural science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good-looking. And you're not gonna say which. Phil, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in threes— the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Leanne ElliottThe audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless. Seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. Uh, we've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioral science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.
Leanne ElliottIt is. It's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
Al ElliottIt can.
Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?
Al ElliottI am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back. Definitely come back, because nudge isn't as good as this, so come back. I'll cut that out. Keep that in. Okay, welcome back. If, if you've joined us now at this time, what an odd person you are. Why would you join a podcast halfway through? But just in case you've forgotten, we've got a list of questions that, uh, from the Reddit subreddit called Ask Old People, is it?
Leanne ElliottAsk Old People. Yep.
Al ElliottAnd we're assuming the role of old people, um, although probably we are compared as far as the Young kids are—
Leanne ElliottYeah, young to some, old to many others.
Al ElliottYes, we're Skibidi Toilet. Okay, so I'll choose a number then. How about I go for number 15?
Leanne ElliottNumber 15.
Al ElliottOh no, you just did 15, I think.
Leanne ElliottNo, I haven't.
Al ElliottOkay, what's 15?
Leanne ElliottOh, interesting. Similar to what we were talking about before the break, actually. Do people who go through extreme trauma and loss actually become stronger or more successful, or is that just something people say to comfort us?
Al ElliottOh, what are your thoughts from a psychological point of view?
Leanne ElliottObviously, trauma is a very broad term. Extreme trauma can look like a lot of things. And so, without dwelling too much on that, the thing to know is we all have a window of tolerance in terms of the type of, the extent of the trauma and stress that we can manage. And that looks different for everybody. So, for example, Al told the story before the break about how I'm going bankrupt. That's a significant trauma. That could have completely derailed some people and took a very different life trajectory for the next 10 years. For you, it was very traumatic and stressful, but you were able to use it in a way that created opportunity. So, I think it comes down to your individual level of tolerance, the actual nature of the trauma and loss. In terms of do you become stronger or more successful? I mean, Yeah, because resilience is literally defined as kind of your ability to bounce back. And if you've been through a trauma or a loss and you've been able to bounce back, reflecting on that and the hope it gives you and optimism it gives you going into the future, that's all part of what we call psychological capital, as is our self-efficacy, our ability to, or our belief in our abilities. All those things can help us become—
Al ElliottResilient.
Leanne Elliottstronger and more successful. As a blanket term, I think it's problematic, isn't it? Because it can belittle the impact of the trauma somebody's going through. So, I think, yes, to an extent, people will say that to comfort you. But also, yeah, it can be absolutely true depending on the nature of the trauma, how you respond to it. Significantly within that, the support network you have around you to help you. respond to that and how you can actually reflect on it in a very detailed way. As we actually talked about when we talked about our, when we got kicked out of Bosnia episode, we went through a very structured process of reflection and reflective learning and thinking is really effective in terms of helping us build our resilience because we start to connect the dots of how we were able to bounce back. But yeah, I don't know. What do you think?
Al ElliottI think there's 2 parts to this. I think we all have adversity. We all have challenges throughout our life. And I think there's kind of like the stacking thing where if you get, if you've had a really tough year and then you lose your job, that is, that could be like you said, that thing that pushes you over. Whereas if you've had an all right year and you lose your job, you might be like, well, this is devastating, but I'll bounce back. So there's that. The second part of it is, I think, is where you are in your life.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottAnd I think that, you know, the older you get, the more you realize you've got less time to recover. And this is the one thing which I think I'd love people under the age of 30 to understand. I'm sure they do. I'm not being patronizing, but I would like everyone to understand this, is that in the majority of cases, you've got decades, decades and decades to recover. So if you make a mistake and it is a big one, it doesn't matter. Whereas if you're in your 70s, And you bet on, you know, let's say you invest in something, your entire life savings, and it goes, you haven't got those decades to recover. So I think that part of it is that yes, people are saying it to try and make you feel better. Of course they are. Of course they are. I 100% believe that every bad thing that happens has got a good thing behind it. It's just, you might not see that for a year or even 2 years or even 5 years. You might not see it. But I think there's that. But then I'm hopelessly optimistic. And thirdly, I think it's down to your stage of life.
Leanne ElliottYeah, I agree with all that. And I think one thing I would add is that positive mindset is something that you can train yourself in. It's something that you can practice as much as you'd practice something like mindfulness or physical health, going for a run. It is a muscle that you can strengthen. And that's not to, that's not to bury the trauma or bury the emotions and cover it with toxic positivity that's ultimately gonna crumble. It's understanding that any type of traumatic life event, whether it be in work or outside of work, requires processing. And if you're processing that in an effective way and reflecting on it in a way that you can consolidate the lessons and what you want to take forward with you, Then you'll be more likely to be resilient and more likely to overcome future challenges. So yeah, if you're interested in anything like that, I'd recommend Dr. Audrey Tang's series of books, which I recommend all the time. It's The Leader's Guide to Mindfulness, The Leader's Guide to Resilience, and The Leader's Guide to Wellbeing.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottDoesn't have to— you don't have to be in a leadership position to make the most of these books. Lots of great self-coaching exercise in it that It's all about this type of positive psychology and how to build up our psychological capital. So check those out.
Al ElliottYeah, just a quick side. If you're wondering what old people did back in the day, then they did what I did, which I bought from secondhand. I bought some tapes in a big presentation box. They came in a big like A4, that's letter for you Americans, A4-like parcel with tapes that you pulled out, you put in, you listen to. And I listened to Tony Robbins, I listened to Jim Rohn, I listened to all these kind of things. And you go, now it feels really quite cheesy to say that, and it probably was a bit cheesy at the time, but that's what Leanne was saying. That was building up. So if I was into sports and I wanted to play tennis, then I would practice every night tennis, and then I'd become probably quite good at tennis, but better than the rest. Whereas, sorry, not better than the rest, better than the average, I mean. Whereas my practice every night was listening to these tapes. So that had built my resilience up.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottWhich is why when something bad happened, I'm like, that's okay. Yeah, we'll work it out. So I'm not saying necessarily go and listen to Jim Rohn or anyone like that. And in fact, do be careful who you choose to listen to because a lot of people out there are a load of rubbish. But, you know, work on building resilience. Okay, Leanne, are you picking a number or am I?
Leanne ElliottYou go for it, love.
Al ElliottOkay. Have we had number 8 yet?
Leanne ElliottNo. If you could ban one question from ever being asked, what would it be?
Al ElliottOh, I think I know the answer to this.
Leanne ElliottGo on.
Al ElliottHow arrogant am I? I think I know the answer to this question. I have an answer for this question.
Leanne ElliottGo on.
Al ElliottUm, my— I would, I would want anyone who asks the question, how do I do this the quickest way? Or what's the shortcut to? Really boils my bag. Not sure that's a saying. Can you imagine if that went, uh, that went viral? Hashtag boil my bag. I really hate that because it's like, that's just lazy. Like, if there was a shortcut, everybody would know and they'd take it and there wouldn't be a shortcut anymore. That would be the long way. But stop asking for shortcuts. There's rarely a shortcut. The only time where success becomes— comes before work is in the dictionary, is the cheesy old thing used to say, but it's actually kind of true. So I'm sorry to break it to you, but that guy on TikTok who says, Well, I'll send you just an £8,000 course and I'll show you how to, how to do, you know, triple your money in crypto. No, no, there's no shortcut because if he knew how to triple his money in crypto, he would do it day after day and would never ask you for any money. What do you think, love?
Leanne ElliottI think that's a good one. I think for me it's any question that is leading in a way that is trying to prove the other person wrong or make them look silly or stupid.
Al ElliottGive us an example.
Leanne ElliottAnything that comes outta the mouth of someone like Andrew Tate. Do you know what I mean? Or that breed of influencer.
Al ElliottI'm gonna do a new metric on the, on the podcast. It's gonna be called TTT, time to Tate. The average time to Tate, ATTT.
Leanne ElliottI haven't brought up the Tate for ages.
Al ElliottNo, you haven't actually. No, but I knew who you were talking about when you were gonna say there was someone who was an arse. Yeah.
Leanne ElliottJust that, just that breed. And what, and what I hate as well is now we're seeing it in terms of like, Like the whole Trump JD Vance with Zelensky in the Oval Office. That was just an ugly, ugly situation. They're asking questions they don't want the answer to. They're asking questions to make him look bad or prove him wrong. Or— and I, I see that type of behavior breeding in certain circles and call it the manosphere now, aren't they, on socials?
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottWhich I think is unfair to men, to be honest, because the majority of men I know aren't like that. But I just think any question that is loaded, leading, or includes the word because.
Al ElliottOh, this is our, this is our thing, Le. Thank you for that. She just, she just chipped that up. I just gotta get my head on it. Um, anyone who says to you, asks you a question and then uses the word because, they don't give a shit what you say. So, example. Hey, Leanne, have you ever been to Bulgaria? Because what am I about to say?
Leanne ElliottSomething about how you went to Bulgaria?
Al ElliottYes.
Leanne ElliottSo I think— Or something really negative about Bulgaria that's now gonna make me sound— now I have to disagree with you. So you're looking for conflict? Yes. Not got time for people who look for conflict.
Al ElliottNo.
Leanne ElliottThere's enough of it in the world. You don't need to go looking for it.
Al ElliottIf you want to— to be fair, I don't think it's a nefarious thing, but if you, if you are from the UK and you listen and you watch Saturday Kitchen, Then I do like James Martin, the, the, the host of it and the chef. He's an, you know, he's a decent fella. But once you hear this, I'm sorry to ruin Saturday Kitchen for you forever. Every question he asks, he always puts a because. And whenever he puts his because, it's either talk about himself or talk about something he wants the guest to know he knows about them. So yeah, sorry for ruining Saturday Kitchen for you there, but you'll hear it with—
Leanne ElliottPiers Morgan.
Al ElliottYou'll hear it with, you know, a lot of the people out there who are the sort of shock jocks, Howard Stern, et cetera. Not about you, it's about them.
Leanne ElliottAnother one for you, Al. What's a bit— now we're talking on a similar theme. What's a behavior that you used to tolerate but will no longer entertain regardless of how many decades you've known a person?
Al ElliottOh, I think it's bitching about people.
Leanne ElliottOoh.
Al ElliottI used to be a salty little bugger. I used to love nothing because I was really insecure as a kid. And then also as a young adult or even Old adult. And you have to, I think you have to be insecure to be an entrepreneur. And I hate the word entrepreneur, but that's what we're calling it these days. Because otherwise, if you're satisfied with yourself and your life, then you don't wanna actually grow. So, um, uh, I used to be quite insecure, so I used to love it when other people come and go, hey, did you hear what happened down there? God, they got in so much trouble. They messed it up so bad. I'd be like, surely they can't have done that. They're really intelligent. Meaning I was asking one of those questions. Surely they can't. Are they really intelligent? Because I'm sure I've heard them being intelligent.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottNo, no, no, they totally messed up. Now, someone starts talking to me like that about someone or a group of people, not interested.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.
Al ElliottWhat about you? Have you got one?
Leanne ElliottMm, I think in a workplace setting, any form of sharking, cheating.
Al ElliottWhat do you mean by sharking?
Leanne ElliottTaking advantage. So, for example, right, and this, this is how things stay with you, and I must have been 20, 5 or 6 when this happened. So, you're talking 15 years ago, and it's still pissing me off. So, I was a job coach, which meant I helped people who were unemployed, more than likely for a long period of time, regain work. And there was a rule within the team because there were occasions where a customer would change job coach for whatever reason, whether it be a capacity issue or one of us would change location or whatever else. So, there was always an element of risk in terms of if you were helping somebody find a job, then they get moved to another coach, that coach would then be with them when they got said job, so it wouldn't go against your targets.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottSo, the general rule in the team, which was reinforced supposedly by our manager, was that if you've put a note on the system specific about a job that you support this person with, regardless of when they get that job, even if they're with another coach, that'll go on your figures, your performance figures. So, for example, it was like, customer interviewed for, um, admin position at Royal Mail, expects to hear November 2012.
Al ElliottYou old man.
Leanne ElliottI know. Um, and this is what I basically had. So then when I'd been moved on to another contract, but still had the same target, just in a different area. So I, I did like to check up on my customers and see how they're getting on, particularly ones that had done really well or were getting really close. So I logged onto the system, found this person, um, and the new— their new job coach had claimed their job with Royal Mail for the admin position that they heard of at that time.
Al ElliottNot cool, man.
Leanne ElliottNot cool. Not cool. So I phoned my manager and was like, um, can you explain this please? This doesn't seem fair. Oh, it doesn't matter, Leanne, it doesn't matter. You're on target this month anyway, it doesn't matter. No, it does matter, because if we're all allowed to break that rule, isn't upheld, it's no longer a rule. So we're all going to be sharking each other. And it just annoyed me. And you know what, you, you know who that person was?
Al ElliottYep, CC.
Leanne ElliottNo, the coach.
Al ElliottOh, okay. Yeah, I know who you mean. Yeah, I'm not going to use that word.
Leanne ElliottBut at the time I was like, okay, I'll try and let it go. But I'd never really quite trust this person, but I tried to get on. And ultimately, throughout my entire career with that company, she was always the one that was taking opportunities away from me, from my team, taking the glory for herself, not acknowledging the successes that we had, making my life difficult all the ways. And now it's like, if somebody behaves like that, I'm not working with you anymore because If we have a conversation and, you know, it's like, okay, no, I understand, let's address that. Of course, fine. But this, no, I've not got the time because it's not going to end well.
Al ElliottNo, no. And in sales, there is that horrible thing in sales. You tend to, most organizations tend to move towards everyone's in it for themselves. And it's because of that. And it's such a shame where there was one company I used to sell telesales stuff for. Um, and, um, it was actually a really cool company because there was one girl in there Sorry, look at me. This is why I'm old, because I said girl and she was a woman. Uh, one woman in there, I can't remember her name, began with M. Um, and she used to always do a target very solidly, very quietly, do a target by Thursday. And then Friday, I think I've said this before on the pod, Friday she'd ring up, keep ringing up, selling, and then give it to the people who were short of their target. And then they did on Monday, they worked and they, uh, I mean, to be fair, maybe she was, maybe she was just like, she, I don't know. There's no angle there. No, she was just a lovely person.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottLovely person.
Leanne ElliottYeah. And I've worked in more sales-based environments where people weren't like that at all.
Al ElliottNo.
Leanne ElliottSo yeah, to the point where our person who used to like direct the calls when they'd come in, if there was a, like a queue or waiting time, there'd been, that role had been a new role created. And I was asked by this person who subsequently got the job, whether I was gonna apply for it. And I said, no, I'm going back to university in September. There's no point. And he was like, yeah, but you could get it for 9 months and it's like almost twice the salary. And I was like, yeah, but I'm not gonna take that opportunity away from somebody who really wants it. So when then that person would, if I was a bit behind on my target, would send me the really good calls.
Al ElliottOh, amazing. Amazing.
Leanne ElliottBecause in fact, it meets your respect, doesn't it?
Al ElliottRight. So if you are under the age of 30 and you are listening, karma is real. God, I can't show you the science behind it, But it is real and it will bite you or it will kiss you on the ass, whichever of the two is, is worse. Leanne, I feel like we're, we're on about, um, 35 minutes now, so we've probably got room for about 10 more. 10 more minutes.
Leanne ElliottYeah, I've got some, I've got some quick ones to go through. Um, what were old people saying when you were a kid about how things were back in their day? One thing I remember so clearly was my nan saying to me, um, Like, you don't understand, back in my day, we had to go to the bathroom outside. It's like, what?
Al ElliottYeah. My dad said, I think my dad said he remembers in his lifetime when they got an indoor toilet. My dad was born in 1946, so it's not like old, old.
Leanne ElliottNo.
Al ElliottYeah, that's, it's kind of, kind of weird, isn't it?
Leanne ElliottAnd then just the, and that's what makes me feel old now that you say my grandparents were saying that. It was definitely a thing in the '50s and '60s when both of our parents were alive. And now we're talking about how AI is potentially going to replace knowledge workers. It's like, how have we got from only just getting indoor toilets to computers taking over our jobs in what, 60 years? Nuts. And that makes me feel old.
Al ElliottYeah. I think also the, I think this is a typical parent or grandparent thing to say, oh, back in my day, we used to leave the doors unlocked. Um, and, uh, and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But then in the same, in the same vein, they'd also talk quite disparagingly about certain groups of the population, demographics. And, um, so yeah, it was kind of like weird, but nostalgia's always— nostalgia's not the same as it used to be, is it? That's why I'll just leave it at that.
Leanne ElliottWhat's the oldest email address you have in terms of number of years? Oh, so my oldest email address is a Hotmail email address. Yeah. And I probably started it in about 2008.
Al ElliottI think I can, well, I'm pretty sure I had an email address back when I was on, there's something at AOL in the UK. Well, still was in the UK, but also there was something called CompuServe, I think. Any of the people my age will remember that. It came free on the front of a CD or a disc came free on the front of a computer shopper magazine. And I'm pretty sure I had a CompuServe email address, which would, I would have been around about 15. So that would be 1992.
Leanne ElliottOh no, but that you still have now.
Al ElliottOh, still have now? Oh no. Um, oh, oh, that's just less important, less interesting. Uh, Gmail. I've had it for about 20 years. And honestly, I think there's about a quarter of a million emails in there.
Leanne ElliottYeah. Yeah. No, my very first email was an AOL email, of course.
Al ElliottOh, that's a, that's a, it was a misleading question, Leanne.
Leanne ElliottI'm sorry. I think it's just, it's funny that it blows young people's minds that we have email addresses that are like 15, 17, 20 years old.
Al ElliottAnd the other thing, and also it's quite funny when someone's got an email address they obviously set up in college, like roger69 kind of thing, and they're still using it today and it's like, um. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway.
Leanne ElliottUm, what things did old people in your day used to do at work that made you cringe?
Al ElliottOh, I remember when I was first started out in the networking circuit back in about sort of, what would that be, about 1999? Um, and I remember distinctly meeting people and particularly they were, they were a very type. There was, there were men of a certain age. And they used to grab my hand, shake really hard, squeeze really hard, and then turn it so that their hand was on top of mine and be like, hey, my name's Dave. Dave. I'm Dave. I'm the sales guy. Dave. What's your name?
Leanne ElliottDave.
Al ElliottAnd they, yeah, exactly. They must have been to some kind of seminar where they say, if you say your name 4 times, they'll remember you and then turn your hand over and they'll be like, who the hell's this? Oh my God, I've got to submit to them straight away. What about you?
Leanne ElliottUm, I think general misogyny. I'm not saying it doesn't exist now, it absolutely does, but it was a lot more transparent when I joined work in terms of I was the one that was looked at to go make the tea. Um, and yeah, talked down to and called sweetheart and that type of thing. I know it still exists now, but it was, it was a lot more, and that used to make me, used to make me cringe.
Al ElliottEven back in like The sort of late '80s, early '90s. I remember, and I remember people used to describe to— describe, oh, drop it off my girl's desk, will you? At his secretary's desk. Drop it off my girl's desk. And, uh, if you— that's why my mum won't watch Mad Men. And she's like, I can't stand how the misogyny, how bad it was back then, because she was back in the workforce about the same time. And I keep saying to her, mum, it gets better. It all goes upside down. I don't want to ruin it for you guys if you've not seen Mad Men, but it kind of goes the other way. Anyway.
Leanne ElliottYeah. Yeah.
Al ElliottMad Men is a great series to watch, to see the evolution of work, even in those, what, 30 years that it covers, or 20 years it covers. Yeah. Um, and, uh, and then you can see at the end just how progressive it is, but then also how much we moved on in the— God.
Leanne ElliottAnd how backward it still was. Yes.
Al ElliottYeah, absolutely was.
Leanne ElliottWhat was your first experience of using computers?
Al ElliottMy first experience, I've got, I remember 2.
Leanne ElliottBecause to be clear, we are old enough to have lived a good amount of our lives without a computer.
Al ElliottYes. That said, I was, uh, I must have been about 7 or 8 years old. And my dad bought a, God, I can't remember what they're called. They're basic. I wanted a BBC BASIC or a BBC something computer, Acorn or something it was, but he bought something else from, uh, From Tandy back in the day. And it was a computer that had a, you got a separate tape player and you plugged your tape player into your computer and you could play stuff. And I used to program in BASIC. I'd spend like my holidays, 4 days writing, hand coding a racing game so that on the 5th day I could play it with my keys. So I would be about 7, which would be about 1984. 1984.
Leanne ElliottEarly adopter.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottSurprisingly how well I did with the ladies later on in life. Actually, that's not true.
Leanne ElliottYou did very well. Thank you very much.
Al ElliottYes. Later in life I did.
Leanne ElliottComputers. I don't really remember my first time. We had them at school, but like the old ones that were like DOS, where it's just like black screen, green font. But the first, like the flashbulb memory I have about computers was when I must have been about I don't know, maybe I was in early high school, so maybe 11. And my dad sat me down in front of the computer, his work computer. It's when he got his first laptop and it was like—
Al ElliottDid it have a nipple in the middle between the two letters for your mouse?
Leanne ElliottI can't remember, but it was a weighty thing. It was a weight, like took two of us to carry it to the table. And he opened it up and he was like, Leanne, I want to show you something. This is called the internet and it's gonna change the world.
Al ElliottWow.
Leanne ElliottAnd I was like, what's that then? And he was absolutely right. And within probably 3 or 4 years, everyone was online on MSN chat, MySpace accounts and the like. But yeah, that was my first. But it's funny to think that when, and this actually goes on to our next question, which is what about your uni life would sound weird today? Though the ability to research information online was still very limited when I went to university in 2003. Like, you'd have to go to the library and you'd have to find the journal and you'd have to photocopy it if you wanted to take it out of said library, or you'd borrow the books to write your essay. You couldn't just Google it. Google, was Google even a thing?
Al ElliottNo.
Leanne ElliottYou couldn't Google things. So, it was, it was a lot more, a lot more manual. And speaking of manual, another thing that was weird about life at university, I did type up my essays. But there wasn't a portal to submit them. So, I had to print it off, take it down to the administration office, which was like 5 miles away, go to the office, get like a cover sheet that had a sticky bit in the corner where you'd fill out your name and your student number, and then fold it down and stick it so it could be marked anonymously. And then we'd have to then go back in on a certain date when we were told in our lectures that that marking was ready and we'd go and collect it from same admin office. And if you didn't go to a lecture, you were screwed because nothing was online.
Al ElliottI remember, it's weird, you said you couldn't, there was no portal. And I was like, why the hell would there be a portal? I don't understand why there'd be a portal. Because I remember all of our stuff was either printed out in the last year of my university, it was printed out, in 1998 it'd be printed out. But in the first 2 years, '95, '96, It was all handwritten, and you put a punch, punch 2 holes in it, and you'd use treasury tags to go through the punched holes, and you'd hand it in to the, to the actual lecturer. You have to go in there and punch it.
Leanne ElliottFor the kids at home, what's a treasury tag?
Al ElliottA treasury tag is like a little piece of rope, a miniature piece of rope with 2, like a T-bar at the end. And what you used to do was you'd punch, like you'd use a hole punch. A hole punch is a— and you used to take these A4 pieces of paper. A piece of paper is like a tree that's been— basically, it was a way to keep something that had got holes in the side of it. If you didn't have like a file for it, you put these treasury tags through, like temporary lever arch file sort of thing.
Leanne ElliottBrilliant.
Al ElliottWow, we are old.
Leanne ElliottWe old. Couple more quick ones for you. This is quite funny, 'cause I know you'll have a good answer to this. Question about radio back in the day. Hi folks, hope you're doing well. I just had a random thought and want some insight from people who lived in a time before advanced technology.
Al ElliottRude.
Leanne ElliottWhen you would hear a song on the radio and really liked it, but did not know the name of it, how did you find out the name?
Al ElliottOh, you couldn't. Well, there was a couple of ways. So you, sometimes what you used to do is you'd have your tape recorder close to your radio, wouldn't you? And you'd try and record a song just after the DJ had said something, said the last, what you thought was the last words. And invariably, 1 in 3 times they'd come back in and go, oh, by the way, and you'd be like, oh man, I'm recording this. But then they also used to do something called back announce. And with a lot of the, a lot of the songs, you used to just play them and then back announce what it was. But I remember distinctly when I first heard a Shazam on my iPhone 3, I remember distinctly going, this is the future of the world. This is what everyone's been waiting for. And then it just kind of like just died a death, didn't it? But yeah. Yeah.
Leanne ElliottBut it's when you'd have like, you'd have magazines like Smash Hits. Oh yes, Smash Hits. What was it, NME?
Al ElliottNME, yeah, if you were cool.
Leanne ElliottYeah, so then you'd see like the name of it or it'd have like the lyrics printed in it, or you'd just go to school and play it to your friend on your Walkman that you taped off the radio illegally and ask them if they'd heard of it. We'd listen to the Top 40 charts on a Sunday.
Al ElliottYou used to, you exactly did that. That's how you—
Leanne ElliottWe'd watch Top of the Pops on a Friday.
Al ElliottThursday Top of the Pops. Oh, was it Thursday? Thursday night Top of the Pops. It's exactly what you would do. You'd listen for 3 hours in a— and you couldn't skip forward. And it'd be 3 hours of playing all of the top 40 songs from 40 down to 1. And you couldn't miss it because that one song you really liked, you didn't know it was.
Leanne ElliottOh, you don't go to the bathroom for 3 hours.
Al ElliottNo, exactly. So that was it with Dr. Fox and Um, who's the guy who does the Confessions on Radio 2? Simon? Um, I can't remember his name. I'm sure you're shouting it, but yeah, he was, he was originally, I think, one of the, uh, Top 40 guys.
Leanne ElliottYeah. Oh, it was such an activity though, wasn't it? That was your Sunday afternoon sorted.
Al ElliottDo you know what? I did see something on Twitter the other day, someone saying, what, right, I've got a great idea. So what it is, it's podcasts, but it's just streamed live. And someone said, dude, that's a radio.
Leanne ElliottI saw another one that was like, has anyone just thought about like having one mobile phone that's dedicated for the house where everyone can share it. If anyone needs to get in touch with anyone from your family, they can just phone this one dedicated mobile phone in the house. It's like, dude, that's a landline.
Al ElliottAnyway, I know. Anything else before we go?
Leanne ElliottUm, I mean, there's a slightly deep one that might be nice to finish on. Um, did you worry about finding your passion, or was work just work?
Al ElliottHmm, do you have an answer to this?
Leanne ElliottI was mindful of wanting to do a job that felt I felt connected with. So things like finance, because professional services was very much the vibe of our, our day, wasn't it? So things like accountancy and lawyers, I just didn't— it sounded boring. Um, so psychology was something that I—
Al ElliottSorry, Jo, your sister.
Leanne ElliottIt's each, each their own, isn't it? Of course, of course. To me, it felt boring. Um, so we— yeah, I've told this story before, so I won't tell it again, but basically I had an experience when I was in high school with a psychologist, and I thought what she did was really cool, and then pursued it from there. And then after I finished my undergrad, I didn't really know what avenue of psychology I wanted to go into, so I took a year out. And I remember probably my 3rd day of work, waking up to my alarm at like half past 6 and thinking, is this it?
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottIs this it? Is this what adulting looks like? I go to work to a job I don't particularly like, don't get paid very much, come home, watch telly, go to bed, and do the same again the next day. Nah, not for me. So I guess from a fairly early age, I was probably 21. Yeah, work needs to be more than just work.
Al ElliottI think I was quite lucky in that I did teacher training for 2 years, trained to be a maths teacher. And then I went, and part of that, you have to go in for a term and teach in teacher training in a school. And I went in there and I was like, first of all, I really didn't enjoy it. Secondly, I know, I think I'm sure I used to sit there and drink whiskey till 3 o'clock in the morning with my housemate. Then go to bed and then get the train at 5 o'clock. Well, you could when you're in your 20s, couldn't you? You could. And the third thing was that, and this, I was only what, maybe 18 at the time, 19 at the time. And the headmaster took me, he sat me down, he said, after a term, he said, right, okay, I've been watching what you've been doing. And I think you're a good teacher. I think you've got some really, really good opportunities here if you work really hard. So you need to graduate, work really hard. And in about 20, 25 years' time, you'll be sitting here as a deputy head. earning £28,000 if you, if you work really hard. And I got on the train that night and, well, to be fair, I almost threw myself in front of the train. And I got on the train and I'm like, no, I ain't doing that. I ain't doing that. I ain't working 25 years. Ironically, me saying people are not looking for shortcuts and I'm looking, I was looking for a shortcut. Um, and so instead I found that I really enjoyed creating things and that now when I create something, doesn't matter what it is, the podcast, anything, I feel like that's not work. So I feel like I don't work because I know what it is that makes me happy, which is creating things.
Leanne ElliottI think there's a, there's maybe a myth we need to take care of here is that, that yes, if you're doing something you're passionate about, it doesn't necessarily feel like work. Maybe, but for me, it still very much felt like work. Like I think back to some of the high stress jobs that I've had, and even though I've absolutely loved them, It's been really hard and there's not been a shortcut to— I've had to hustle and work hard to get to the management position, to then get the next thing, to then be able to go self-employed. It's not like overnight, you know, I was 21 and thought, I know I'm gonna start a podcast about work.
Al ElliottIt would've been rubbish.
Leanne ElliottYeah, it would've been pants. So I think there is an element of it. You need, if you can get both, if you can find your passion and have a good work ethic, a healthy work ethic, Then I think that's a nice balance. But I think there's very few people who are fortunate enough to find something that they're just 100% passionate about, never feels like work, and get to do it all day.
Al ElliottIn fact, that's a really good place to think to leave it on, I think. So if anyone is under the age of 30 and they think, I just, I hate my job, I just want a job that I just cannot wait to get up to in the morning, that probably doesn't exist and it probably shouldn't exist for you because that's your hobby. That's the stuff you do for fun on a Friday afternoon, on a Saturday morning or whatever. And then the second, imagine if you just loved making cakes. So you went, right, I'm gonna start a cake business. And then you suddenly had to make cakes. You're gonna stop. You're gonna fall outta love with cakes. So I think all that is a bit of a roundabout way of saying is that don't chase that idea that work is always easy, fun, because the fact is some of the most rewarding work in the world is difficult, challenging. Sometimes you go, should I be doing this? But ultimately—
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottYou just cannot not do it.
Leanne ElliottYeah, we all need a little bit of tension. That's what makes the achievement so fulfilling.
Al ElliottLovely. Well, it looks like your drink has been taken over by flies.
Leanne ElliottIt's been infected by a fly.
Al ElliottSo, we'll go and refresh that beverage, and we will see you next week. We're back on Thursday with another interview, but don't worry, it's not one of those, like, real serious ones. It's kind of a bit of fun. So, uh, I can't remember who it is, but it's definitely someone cool.
Leanne ElliottDo you want me to look?
Al ElliottNo, let everyone be surprised. It'll be fun.
Leanne ElliottIt's a good one.
Al ElliottSee you soon.
Leanne ElliottBye.
Al ElliottBye.