Episode 322 · 28 July 2026 · 51:41
The World’s Weirdest Jobs: Penguinologists, Snake Milkers, Ice Cowboys and more! Summer Sessions #1, with Georgia Hodkinson
Featuring Georgia Hodkinson
The World’s Weirdest Jobs: Penguinologists, Snake Milkers, Ice Cowboys and more! Summer Sessions #1, with Georgia Hodkinson
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Summer Sessions kickoff and guest intro
How today's weirdest jobs game works
interview#weird-jobs#game#research
Job 1: Penguinologist
interview#penguinologist#penguins#career
Job 2: Snake milker
interview#snake-milker#snakes#venom
Job 3: Professional apologist (polyologist)
interview#apologist#polyologist#career
Job 4: Chicken sexer
interview#chicken-sexer#poultry#agriculture
Job 5: Ice cowboy (International Ice Patrol)
interview#ice-cowboy#ice-patrol#maritime
Job 6: Tokyo train pusher
interview#train-pusher#tokyo#transport
Bonus: Netflix editorial insights content analyst
interview#netflix#editorial#content-analyst
The winner, favourites & wrap-up
interview#winner#favorites#wrap-up
Show notes
The World's Weirdest Jobs: Penguinologists, Snake Milkers & Ice Cowboys — with Georgia Hodkinson
Guest: Georgia Hodkinson (GMBPsS) — Associate Producer of Truth, Lies & Work and Organisational Psychologist, founder of Georgia's Psy Work.
Forget the news cycle. It's summer, and Al and Leanne are kicking off their Summer Sessions with something a little different — a head-to-head battle of the world's weirdest jobs.
Joined by special guest host Georgia Hodkinson, the team takes turns bringing genuinely real, wildly specialised, and completely bizarre careers to the table. Think penguinologists, snake milkers, ice cowboys, professional apologists, and chicken sexers. They guess what each job involves, break down how you actually get into one, reveal the pay, and score every entry on a leaderboard for sheer weirdness, "would you actually do it?", and dinner-party impressiveness.
Whether you're lounging by the pool, commuting, or hiding from your inbox, hit play for the most unbelievable ways people make a living around the globe.
🐧 The Jobs on the Leaderboard
1. Penguinologist — Studies penguin behaviour, breeding, migration, and environmental response. Around 20–40 specialists in the UK, typically with the British Antarctic Survey, Oxford University, or the Zoological Society of London. Salary: £50k–£60k for experienced researchers. Requires a PhD. Fun fact: researchers regularly pause work because curious penguins wander over to inspect them.
2. Snake milker — Extracts venom from snakes for research and antivenom production. Fewer than 100 people worldwide specialise in this. Not a university course — specialised venom training instead. US salary: $40k–$80k (£30k–£60k). One bite can be fatal, but the work saves thousands of lives.
3. Professional apologist (polyologist) — A proxy apology specialist, hired to deliver apologies on behalf of clients. An agency called Shizaya Aiga Pro exists for exactly this. Pay sits around £50k–£60k. Requires empathy, sincerity, problem-solving, and conflict management — possibly a touch of Machiavellianism too.
4. Chicken sexer — Determines the sex of day-old chicks at speed. Trainees start at £25k; experienced sexers earn £30k–£45k, with top earners reaching £60k+. The industry reports a long-standing shortage of skilled sexers. The best can work at 1,200 chicks per hour — a 3-second decision with 98% accuracy. AI-proof, for now.
5. Ice cowboy (International Ice Patrol) — Teams monitor and redirect icebergs around offshore oil platforms in places like Canada. Only a couple of hundred specialists globally. Canadian salary: $80k–$150k (£45k–£85k), often with a two-weeks-on, two-weeks-off rotation. Fun fact: the largest iceberg ever successfully redirected weighed 4 million tonnes — roughly 26,000 blue whales.
6. Tokyo train pusher — Employed by rail networks in hyper-congested urban hubs to help passengers board packed trains during rush hour. Pays roughly $7–$10 per hour. A specific cultural role in Japan's subway system — and a firm "no" from all three hosts.
Bonus: Netflix editorial insights content analyst — Sits and watches Netflix all day, tagging content with metadata. In 2014, Netflix VP Todd Yellen told TechRadar the company had around 40 tags at the time. Salary: $92,000 a year. Modern postings want roughly 4+ years in film or TV, often with a film studies background.
🏆 The Winner
After six rounds of scoring across weirdness, "would you do it?", and dinner-party impressiveness, it's a tie — the chicken sexer and the polyologist share the crown for the world's weirdest job.
More From Georgia Hodkinson
- LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/georgia-hodkinson-gmbpss
- Company: Georgia's Psy Work
Connect With Us
Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
Expand full transcript
Leanne ElliottHello and welcome to episode 1 of our Summer Sessions 2026. So for the next few weeks, we're taking a little break from the workplace news and the heavier topics to bring you something a little bit more fun. The sort of episode you can stick on when you're driving down the coast or lying by the pool, um, or just, you know, relaxing on holiday.
Al ElliottBecause let's be honest, no one really wants to spend August listening to a typical work podcast. So today we are talking about the world's weirdest jobs, and we're joined by a very special guest. Reveal all after a very quick word from our beautiful, lovely sponsors. The dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all. Every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation. Into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Al ElliottNice. Check out HubSpot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
Leanne ElliottHello, hello! Welcome back. This is Truth, Lies, and Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture, brought to you, of course, by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is. Leanne. I know that's— is that me? Yeah, it is me. My name is Leanne. I'm a chartered occupational psychologist. I've got a wine.
Al ElliottMy name is Al. I'm a business owner.
Leanne ElliottAnd we are here to help you simplify the science of work, or at least we normally would, um, but not this week.
Al ElliottNo, we're kicking off our summer sessions talking about the world's weirdest job with our special, very special guest, associate producer of the podcast, Georgia Hodkinson.
Leanne ElliottHey, darling.
Al ElliottHey.
Leanne ElliottThis is so nice. I feel like it's just kind of like a little It's not work do, but it kind of feels like it.
Al ElliottA little bit, a little bit. It's been a long time since just the 3 of us on a call.
Leanne ElliottI know.
Georgia HodkinsonIt has.
Al ElliottI think it was maybe 18 months ago we last, we last spoke like this.
Leanne ElliottIf people aren't aware of you, Georgia, do you want to introduce yourself? Tell us who you are, what you do, what you're famous for?
Georgia HodkinsonAbsolutely. So I'm an organisational psychologist. I own my own business called Georgia's Psywork. My main customers, they are HR directors, head of operations in high-pressure organisations that operate with shift work, operate with on-call workers, emergency callouts, predominantly in the logistics sector, and I support with fatigue management. Nice.
Leanne ElliottFabulous. And you are also, in your spare time, associate producer of Truth, Lies and Work.
Georgia HodkinsonI am indeed. It is absolutely my favourite role. Don't tell anybody else. But it gives me the opportunity to connect with just incredible experts. So, it's amazing.
Leanne ElliottIt is lovely, isn't it? From a psychologist's point of view, it's basically like CPD done.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah. Absolutely.
Leanne ElliottJust always learning from people.
Al ElliottAnd networking. The network comes to you.
Georgia HodkinsonYes.
Al ElliottYou don't have to go out there and go to, like, weird business breakfasts where there's— have you ever done one of those, those business breakfasts?
Leanne ElliottI have.
Georgia HodkinsonThey are— they can be interesting.
Al ElliottI feel like I—
Leanne ElliottShe's so professional.
Al ElliottWait, right. So Chris and I used to go to them quite often, and we were at one in South Manchester at 7. It's like, obviously starts at 7 in the morning. At quarter to 8, 2 of the delegates who were Quite a bit older, mind you, probably my age now when I was thinking about it. This is 20 years ago. Quite a bit older, emerged from one of the toilets after having some breakfast delight, I think you might call it.
Georgia HodkinsonInteresting.
Al ElliottNo. Yep. It just walked out into the room as if like, you know, smoothing down the hair and doing up the flyovers. It's like, right, okay.
Georgia HodkinsonI've got an exactly, well, I'm gonna say exactly the same kind of story for you. Did a particular breakfast meeting in a hotel, and somebody is kicked out of the hotel toilets with just wearing a towel. A couple of moments later, somebody else left the same toilets.
Al ElliottInteresting.
Georgia HodkinsonWhat?
Leanne ElliottWho knew this was a place to like—
Al ElliottGet some sausage?
Georgia HodkinsonYeah.
Leanne ElliottIt's not your traditional breakfast, is it?
Al ElliottMaybe full English means something different in the networking world.
Georgia HodkinsonOh, that is a term for it.
Al ElliottGeorgia, I have questions. So this person got kicked out in just a towel. So did they go in there in just a towel, or were their clothes in there?
Georgia HodkinsonIt's a good question. I'd love to be able to provide you with the details, don't know myself. These are my questions that I would love answered.
Leanne ElliottLet's make it up. Let's say that his clothes were in. Or was it a woman or a man?
Georgia HodkinsonA man that got kicked out, a woman that followed a couple of minutes later. Wow.
Al ElliottWell, surprise, surprise, Georgia, they are here today. This is Karen and Malcolm. Welcome, Karen and Malcolm.
Leanne ElliottThat would be amazing.
Al ElliottOh, can you imagine if we actually did that?
Leanne ElliottI find it impressive though, because I'll be honest, I'm not much of a morning person. I'm certainly not much of kind of a networking person in the morning.
Georgia HodkinsonNo.
Leanne ElliottSurely it was prearranged. You didn't just turn up at 5 past 7 and go, come on then, let's, let's meet in the toilets in 20.
Al ElliottI don't know. Maybe things got a bit steamy when the, uh, when, when they were handing around the business cards.
Leanne ElliottHell of an elevator pitch, eh?
Al ElliottLee, I feel like we've gone off topic a little.
Leanne ElliottI have a question. I've never, I've never been to a breakfast networking event. Does anyone actually ever get any business from it, or are you just going for the free snacks and treats?
Al ElliottGeorgia?
Georgia HodkinsonWell, I didn't get, uh, any business. I got connections, don't get me wrong. Uh, there were some very interesting people that I did connect with through LinkedIn. Uh, not in the way that the particular man that got kicked out of the hotel, in the way that he connected, but, uh, but connections of such.
Al ElliottI, I got a couple of jobs from it.
Georgia HodkinsonOh, God.
Al ElliottNot those kind of jobs.
Leanne ElliottI got a couple of—
Al ElliottGod, I wish I'd, I wish I'd actually properly leant into that joke. I didn't, I didn't even know I was saying it till I, till I said it. Anyway, so I got a couple of jobs for web design and I found out they were the world's biggest pain in the ass as clients. So I stopped going. It was weird. I think the people who make money are BNI. The big organization who manages it. And then it used to be called something like 4Networking or something was another one. And I think the guy who started that, Brad, made a whole load of money, but I don't think anyone else really makes any money. You do meet some weird people. I went on a, just one last thing, right? So, so I went, I went on one of these speed networking things at an event. So it's basically speed dating, but networking. And so there was a big row of chairs and we just basically, I think, I think what person, like row A would stay where they were and row B would move along one. Anyway, so I sat opposite this woman, middle-aged woman.
Georgia HodkinsonMm-hmm.
Al ElliottShe looks really like just normal middle-aged woman. And so I started talking, she went, stop, stop, stop, stop. Now this is because this is audio, I have to explain it. She leant across, put her thumb on the bottom of my eye, and then dragged her thumb down a bit and blew on it and said, sorry, I had an eyelash.
Leanne ElliottIn a creepy way or in a sexual way?
Al ElliottI didn't say anything. I suppose—
Leanne ElliottIt was creepy, but I kind of liked it.
Al ElliottTo be fair, that's in the eye of the beholder. Uh, for me it was creepy. I didn't, I did not care for it one bit. Anyway, Le, Le, Le, Le, Le, Le, let's get us back on topic.
Leanne ElliottIf you're a fairly new listener and you're wondering what the hell is going on, last August, Al and I tried something a bit different where we basically sat by the pool. We weren't, we are those privileged people, sat by the pool with a glass of wine and just talked about stuff. Because usually our numbers in August were pretty pants, because understandably no one wants to listen to a work podcast. But we had our best August ever last year talking nonsense at you, so we thought we'd try Again, but this time we're bringing friends. So we've got Georgia this week, and we've got a guest with us every week. I do have a glass of rosé, actually.
Al ElliottYes, I do too.
Leanne ElliottSo cheers, everybody.
Al ElliottYeah, yeah.
Georgia HodkinsonI had a Flake, but the Flake's gone.
Al ElliottBut is it still—
Leanne ElliottDid you enjoy it?
Georgia HodkinsonI did. I really did.
Al ElliottAnd the second question I got is, is it still hot there? Did it melt?
Georgia HodkinsonIt's not too bad now. It's definitely significantly reduced. It's currently 23, so it's not as bad. It's comfortable. I managed to eat it before it melted.
Leanne ElliottDon't Flakes famously not melt?
Al ElliottWhat? What are they made of?
Leanne ElliottTell me. Well, I think that's part of the conversation. If you look on YouTube, right?
Georgia HodkinsonYeah.
Leanne ElliottI'm sure I've seen loads of different, like, shorts where people try everything they can to melt a Flake, whether it be like leaving it in the sun, putting it in the oven, taking a blowtorch to it, and it doesn't melt.
Georgia HodkinsonYou're joking?
Leanne ElliottNo.
Al ElliottNow it says no. According to this, according to— just full disclosure. No, no, hang on. Full disclosure. This is from the AI summary on Google. So this is Gemini. No, Cadbury Flakes do not melt in the microwave. Instead of turning into a smooth liquid sauce like regular chocolate, the dehydrated, highly aerated structure causes the bar to simply soften, burn, or scorch. What the hell have you just eaten?
Georgia HodkinsonI'm worried.
Al ElliottThat doesn't sound human.
Georgia HodkinsonI'm concerned.
Al ElliottAnyway, so if you are a new listener, stick with it, please, please. Hopefully it's gonna get better.
Leanne ElliottThis is how today is gonna work.
Al ElliottSo how is today gonna work, Lee?
Leanne ElliottWe are gonna talk about the world's weirdest jobs. So each of us have gone and done some research, and we've brought 3 completely genuine jobs that either sound too brilliant or ridiculous to be real. We're hoping there's not much duplication. I think we might only, because we've probably recorded 20 minutes already, have we? Haven't even started yet.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottSo we might only get through, through 1 or 2 each, but we're gonna, we're gonna basically share what it is the job is, how common it is, the salary, that kind of stuff, how you become one. Take it in turns. The others can ask questions if they want to. And then after every job, we'll score it out of 5 in 3 categories. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep score.
Al ElliottWould you like a piece of paper?
Leanne ElliottI've got one, thank you. So, the first category is weirdness. So, how bizarre is it? The second category is, would you do it? From absolutely not to how do I do this immediately? And the best answer at a dinner party, if you were sat next to somebody and you said, so what do you do? And they gave you this answer. So, we'll score it from kind of 0 to 5 in each of those categories. And at the end, we'll be able to crown the best weirdest job.
Al ElliottLove it.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah.
Al ElliottWho's going first?
Leanne ElliottMe. So my first one is a penguinologist.
Al ElliottGeorgia.
Leanne ElliottUm, penguinologist. Mm-hmm.
Georgia HodkinsonI'm not sure. Is it gonna be something about the icebergs?
Leanne ElliottIt is kind of, but it's actually even more obvious than that.
Al ElliottCan I, can I have a guess and make Georgia look a fool? Is it someone who studies penguins?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Georgia HodkinsonI thought so too.
Al ElliottYeah, that's because you've got far too many letters after your name and far too many degrees that you're looking for the complicated answer. Me, who's got half a degree, I'm like, penguins, isn't it? So it's gotta be penguins, mate. I like the word as well.
Leanne ElliottYeah, have you said it?
Al ElliottPenguinologist. Not something for, um, uh, not something for, uh, uh, Bernadette Custardface. What's it called? Benedict Cumberbatch, he couldn't say penguin, could he?
Leanne ElliottOh no, did you ever see that, Georgia? The, um, Benedict Cumberbatch, I think he was on— I saw it when he was on the Graham Norton Show, and they were taking the mickey because he did a documentary about penguins and couldn't say the word penguin.
Georgia HodkinsonJoking.
Leanne ElliottSo he kept saying like, what did he say?
Al ElliottPenguin, penguin, penguin, penguin.
Leanne ElliottYeah, it got worse and worse as it went on. Anyway, worth a YouTube, it's quite funny. But anyway, a penguinologist, to be fair, Isn't an official job title, but there was a researcher, an Oxford researcher called Dr. Tom Hart, who used it on his job title for a BBC interview in 2024, and it went viral, understandably. And his kind of reasoning was, well, yes, technically I'm a marine biologist or a marine ecologist, but nobody really knows what that means. If I say I'm a penguinologist, they're like, we need to be best friends immediately.
Al ElliottBecause they all know what it means. So everyone in the world knows what that means immediately, apart from Georgia.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah. Cool. Excellent.
Al ElliottGot that sorted. Yeah, brilliant.
Leanne ElliottYeah, a penguinologist studies penguins to understand how they behave, breed, migrate, and respond to environmental change. The job is a mix of fieldwork and science. They might spend weeks in Antarctica. They count nests, they tag birds, they collect feathers, and they deploy GPS trackers. And then they return to the UK to analyse the data and publish all these fancy papers, apply for funding, all that stuff. So yeah, they do actually spend time with penguins, But they probably spend even more time in a lab looking at spreadsheets.
Al ElliottOf penguins.
Leanne ElliottPenguins. They are cute though, aren't they?
Al ElliottThey are cute. I'm trying to make this really, really shit dad joke, like, how did he pick that up? But then I realised that because you pick up a penguin— God, that's from the '80s, isn't it? Moving on. Do we need to— we need to give you scores on this, do we, Leanne?
Leanne ElliottWell, I'll just tell you before you score me, we reckon there's around 20 to 40 people in the UK that could officially call themselves penguinologists. So it's very, very rare.
Georgia HodkinsonInteresting.
Leanne ElliottThey tend to work for the British. Antarctic Society, Oxford University, or the Zoological Society of London. Um, and yeah, it's, it's one of those things, only a handful of people do it in Britain, but I, I would love to meet myself a penguinologist. In fact, I did actually, when we had the idea to do this segment a few weeks ago, I tried to message Dr. Tom Hart on LinkedIn, didn't come back to me.
Al ElliottBoo!
Georgia HodkinsonI know.
Al ElliottMaybe there's not much 4G in the Antarctic.
Leanne ElliottTo be fair, he could have been, he could have been on site, couldn't he? Or off on, in the field.
Al ElliottSo do we need to, should we?
Leanne ElliottSo how weird is it? How weird is it? 0 to 5, 5 being really fricking weird.
Al ElliottI'm going 4, Georgia.
Georgia HodkinsonI don't think it's too weird. I'm gonna go 2.
Leanne ElliottSo that's a combined score of 6.
Al ElliottOkay. What's the next question?
Leanne ElliottWould you do it? Yeah. Yeah.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottIf it's just a question of would you rather than could you, Would it be something that, like, had you known as like a 16-year-old this job existed, would you then dedicate your life to becoming a penguinologist?
Al ElliottDid you say yes, Georgia?
Georgia HodkinsonHmm. The question's been reframed. I'm unsure now. What's the salary like?
Leanne ElliottOh, that's a good question. Salary is between £50,000 and £60,000 for an experienced researcher, professor level, £70,000 to £90,000 a year.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah, I'm up for it.
Leanne ElliottIt does require a PhD as well. Um, it's pretty hardcore.
Al ElliottShe's up for it.
Leanne ElliottI'm up for it.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah.
Leanne Elliott4, 5, 3, 4.
Al Elliott4. Yeah.
Leanne ElliottAlistair?
Al Elliott0.
Leanne ElliottOh, really?
Al ElliottBecause it's— you're gonna be freaking cold all the time.
Leanne ElliottYeah, fair.
Al ElliottYou don't get many penguins in Malaga. So, so I'm gonna be like, no, that's not for me.
Leanne ElliottUm, I would, I would personally love to sit next to somebody at a dinner party And they tell me they're a penguinologist. I think it's a great answer. I'd give, I'd give it a 5 personally, but what would, what would you guys give it for a dinner party answer?
Al ElliottIt's a, it's a solid 3 for me.
Leanne ElliottBrutal scoring here, Al.
Georgia HodkinsonI'd give it a 5 too, Leanne. I think it's cool.
Leanne ElliottDo you want a fun fact about penguins or penguinologists?
Al ElliottOf course.
Leanne ElliottSo researchers apparently regularly report having to pause their work because curious penguins wander over to inspect the equipment, peck their boots, and simply stand staring at them for a little while. That's nice, isn't it?
Al ElliottSounds a bit like living in the Balkans where people just stand and stare at you.
Leanne ElliottIt's true. Did you notice any of that, Georgia, when you're on your holidays in Montenegro? I think it's a cultural thing. The, um, they're very curious people who like to watch.
Georgia HodkinsonI didn't. I don't think I did anyway. Very tall people. Like, I am pretty short, I'll admit that, but these people, when they came to my door to like make sure I was okay in my hotel room, I was like, whoa.
Leanne ElliottHow tall are you, Georgia? I feel like you don't know this when you've not met somebody.
Georgia HodkinsonLike, I'm 5 foot 4.
Leanne ElliottOh, me too.
Georgia HodkinsonOh yay!
Leanne ElliottOh, twinning. Actually, I think I'm actually technically 5 foot 3 and a half, but you know. Oh, I'm the nearest.
Georgia HodkinsonRound up.
Al ElliottAnd now you're getting older, you're gonna get smaller and smaller.
Leanne ElliottI'm only 41. I don't think you start to shrink for a while yet.
Georgia HodkinsonYou start to shrink at 25. Did you know that?
Leanne ElliottOh no, really?
Georgia HodkinsonGenuinely Google it.
Leanne ElliottOh, well, I'm screwed. Anyway, what's your next one?
Al ElliottI did.
Georgia HodkinsonOkay, I'm gonna stick with the theme of animals, um, but I'm gonna take it to a different level, um, because I think this is true altruism at its greatest. A snake milker, or better known as a venom extraction technician. Wow.
Leanne ElliottI mean, I prefer the second because snake milker.
Al ElliottYeah. Does sound a bit rude.
Leanne ElliottIt does sound a bit rude. It does sound a bit rude. I'm guessing, is it somebody for whatever reason extracts venom from snakes?
Georgia HodkinsonExactly. Exactly that. The reason is, is research and medical gains. So it is there to create antibodies for someone that's been bitten that isn't in a laboratory environment.
Al ElliottSnake milk.
Leanne ElliottOh, snake milker.
Al ElliottSee, 'cause you can get oat milk and you get almond milk.
Leanne ElliottOoh, snake milk.
Al ElliottNo. Where do we—
Georgia HodkinsonReptile.
Leanne ElliottWe draw the line at reptile.
Al ElliottFair. Fair. They're not, they're not mammal. So are all, do all mammals feed milk to their young? As in mammary, mammal. Is that where it comes from? You two are clever.
Leanne ElliottI didn't do biology.
Georgia HodkinsonI don't think I'm that clever.
Al ElliottWe need the penguinologist. I was just wondering where you, like, where you draw the line. All right, reptiles, fair enough. You don't milk a reptile. I mean, we got my dad, that was the first thing my dad taught me. He sat me down when I was about 4 and And a half years old, and he said, you never milk a reptile. But I'm wondering, like, what do we milk? We don't milk cats, we don't milk dogs, we don't milk mice.
Georgia HodkinsonNo.
Al ElliottBut they're all mammals.
Georgia HodkinsonThey are.
Al ElliottIs it because the juice isn't worth the squeeze? I don't know. Just a thought.
Leanne ElliottYou're on fire today. These puns and dad jokes are just writing themselves.
Al ElliottDaddy Wareham's gonna be creaming his knickers. He's gonna absolutely love this. Anyway, sorry. So how much, how much they get, how much they earn?
Georgia HodkinsonSo they can You can earn in the US between $40,000 and $80,000, which translates to about £30,000 and £60,000. Oh.
Leanne ElliottI mean, it's not bad.
Georgia HodkinsonIt's not bad. However, you are risking your life because one bite is death, but you are potentially saving thousands by doing your job.
Leanne ElliottSo, I mean, I might be asking questions you don't have the answer to, George, but let's see, how does it work? Do they, they, can they not like, put them to sleep while they milk them? Do they need to be awake?
Georgia HodkinsonSo, what they do, I can describe you exactly. I've got a job description here. So, the snake is encouraged to bite onto a sterile membrane stretched over a collection vessel, allowing venom to be extracted without harming the animal. So, people use mambas, cobras, vipers, And they actually are recognised to respect the animal rather than fear it. And yeah, they supply these, this venom to pharmaceutical industry and research labs to support research and support medical.
Leanne ElliottI mean, good for them. Yeah.
Al ElliottGood for them. Not for me.
Leanne ElliottNot, absolutely not for me.
Al ElliottIs that one of their questions? Would you do it?
Leanne ElliottIt is, it is one of our questions. Would you do it? It's a hard no from me. So that'd be a zero.
Al ElliottZero from me too.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah.
Al ElliottWhat was the second question we need to ask?
Leanne ElliottHow weird is it? It's pretty frickin' weird.
Al ElliottI think it's pretty frickin' weird.
Georgia HodkinsonIt is weird, but it's also really rare. You know, only— it's fewer than 100 people worldwide specialise in this. And the exact number's quite unknown because people kind of joint specialise in zoology and stuff like that through university. So, you don't actually know how many specialists there are in the world. But it's thought to be just a couple of hundred.
Leanne ElliottWow. Could you imagine if you went to a a dinner party and the penguinologist was married to the snake milker.
Georgia HodkinsonIs this a job? Is this a joke?
Leanne ElliottNo. Penguinologist and snake milker walk into a dinner party. Oh wow. Any other facts, Georgia? Anything else we need to know about snake milkers?
Georgia HodkinsonSo it's not a university course, um, it's more of a specialised venom training, um, and, um, it's done in a, obviously, a controlled environment, um, high consequences, so there's very clear systems involved. Um, but that's about it really.
Leanne ElliottWell, I would be very impressed if I sat down at a dinner party next to a snake milker.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah.
Leanne ElliottI think I'd be a bit weirded out at first, but then once they explain, I'd be like, that's actually very cool.
Al ElliottYeah.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah.
Leanne ElliottI'm not, I'm not sure for me it's as, I'd be as excited as for a penguinologist, so I'd probably give it a 4.
Al ElliottI'm the same. I would give it a 4 because I'm exactly the same as like, if someone sat down and said, I'm a snake milker, and then someone else walked in and Oh, hello, my name's Brian and I'm a, I'm a penguinologist. I mean, I'd be—
Leanne ElliottI wanna go sit next to Brian.
Al ElliottI'm sitting next to Brian.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottYeah.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah.
Al ElliottI'm getting rid of, uh, Pent.
Leanne ElliottWould you do it?
Al ElliottWould I do it?
Leanne ElliottNo. Hard no is a zero.
Al ElliottI've come across a couple of snakes. That sounds a bit weird. Don't, please don't clip that. I've come across a couple of snakes recently in our garden.
Leanne ElliottHow many?
Al ElliottVery good.
Leanne ElliottIn the garden.
Al ElliottIn the garden. There was one in the bottom when I was cleaning the pool out, ready to fill it up. There was one, and I went to go down to pick up this big, long, meter-long stick at the bottom of the pool. I went to just grab it, and it moved, and it was a big, long, meter-long brown snake. Um, and I'd spend the next hour trying to get it out with the, with the net for the pool. Um, and, uh, and it was, it was not a pleasant experience for either one of us. So I'm not, I'm not born for it. I'm not made for it. It's not for me, Leanne.
Leanne ElliottNo, no.
Al ElliottWould you do it, Georgia?
Georgia HodkinsonNo, no, I could honestly say no.
Leanne ElliottI don't think I'd even want to watch it. Like, observe it.
Al ElliottI am going to Google it though. I am going to— I'm— no, I am. I do want to watch it. I'm gonna go on YouTube. Have we got a total on that?
Leanne ElliottUm, but we haven't decided how weird it is. I think it's pretty freaking weird actually. It's probably ones I'd be like, huh, 3?
Georgia Hodkinson4.
Leanne ElliottI'd probably go 4 as well.
Georgia HodkinsonI'm going 4 as well.
Leanne ElliottDone.
Georgia HodkinsonOr am I not allowed to rate them?
Leanne ElliottYou can't rate your own.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottNo, can't rate your own. But you will be pleased to hear, um, that, that I think it's kind of about a tie at the minute. Did you know that the UK's number 1 management podcast— that's us, by the way— and the UK's number 1 marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioural science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good-looking. And you're not gonna say which. You're listening to Ghost of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in threes—
Leanne Elliottthe HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless, seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. Uh, we've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioral science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.
Leanne ElliottIt is. It's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
Al ElliottIt can.
Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?
Al ElliottI am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back. Definitely come back, because Nudge isn't as good as this.
Leanne ElliottSo come back.
Al ElliottI'll cut that out. Keep that in.
Leanne ElliottAnyway, Al, do you want to go next?
Al ElliottOkay, so this is difficult because it's a Spanish— it's a Japanese word. And also, I don't know how to say it. And so then I doubt that you guys will know it. That's not being presumptuous just because it's a very obscure Japanese word. I'm gonna say it's shazaiya. Shazaiya. If anyone's listening from Japan, please, I look forward to your letters. So, shazaiya. And if I said to you it's an apologising consultant, what do you think that might mean?
Georgia HodkinsonI really don't know. I'm trying to think in my head what are possibilities. Is it how to apologise? Is it hospitality industry?
Leanne ElliottYeah, like a front-of-house thing.
Al ElliottAh.
Leanne ElliottOr is it like, do rich men have one when they've like done something really wrong with their wife or partner?
Al ElliottThat's much closer to it. It's actually also called a proxy apology specialist. And what do they actually do? They act as a surrogate for people who are too terrified or ashamed to deliver an apology themselves. This is how it works. A client hires an agency to dispatch a professional who will visit an aggrieved party. By the way, obviously this is from Wikipedia. I'm reading it out. Be it furious partner, slighted employee, or parents disappointed that their child doesn't know what a penguinologist is. This person then offers a formal face-to-face apology, and the proxy handles the emotional fallout so the offender doesn't have to. Essentially, it's people who just have either done something really, really terrible and can't face them, or just don't, don't like saying sorry. Thoughts?
Georgia HodkinsonOh, you work closely, Anne.
Leanne ElliottI, I didn't think it would be right though. I mean, how does— how bad are we talking? Is it like, I accidentally ran over your cat bad? Is it, I put your son in jail? Is it, I'm sorry, I forgot to wash the dishes last night? Like, what range of things are we dealing with?
Georgia HodkinsonFor Luke, it would be, I'm sorry, forgot to clean the dishes last night. Sorry, just outing my partner.
Al ElliottWell, just how— just how much shit would Luke get for not doing the washing up? I'll give you a scale. On a scale of No shit at all, 0 to 10, run over your cat.
Georgia HodkinsonI'm gonna go—
Al ElliottWhere would he be?
Georgia HodkinsonI'm gonna go for a 7.
Al ElliottOh, that's brutal, man. Luke, if you're listening, then, then you can give me a call if you want. We can get you out of there, don't worry. Right, let me, let me tell you a little bit more about this, and then you can ask the questions. So, uh, how much do you get paid? Well, a standard apology service typically costs between ¥10,000 and ¥30,000. Uh, happily, actually, if you just divide that by ¥1,000, that you get a dollar. So it's $100 to $300 per apology.
Leanne ElliottOh, that's not bad.
Al ElliottIt's not bad money. It's not bad. But still, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta make sure you like calculate in that maybe 1 in 5 might be a punch in the face or something. So, but this is Japan, which they tend to be a little more sort of like circumspect, don't they? Rather than—
Georgia HodkinsonTrue.
Al ElliottBut also, yeah, it's, it is specifically, in fact, how rare is it? So there's an agency called Shizaya Aiga Pro. I apologize for the Awful pronunciation there. Operating openly in Japan. However, it remains a rare cultural curiosity elsewhere. There's no global registry, and there is no— thanks for saying this— there is no qualification for this. Okay.
Leanne ElliottI'm surprised there isn't a qualification for this.
Al ElliottReally?
Leanne ElliottYeah, because I would imagine, I don't know about you, Georgia, but my little psychology senses are going, and I think there'll be very particular people that'll be very, very good at this job.
Georgia HodkinsonMe too.
Leanne ElliottBecause you can't be too much of a people pleaser.
Georgia HodkinsonNo.
Leanne ElliottBut you need to be empathetic and genuine, sincere, but also very much of a problem solver, conflict management. I think there's some high-level skills involved in this job.
Al ElliottGeorgia?
Georgia HodkinsonI agree. I agree. I mean, it would— I wonder if a personality test would be important.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottWell, I can reveal exclusively on this episode that Wikipedia tells me, in fact, no, this bit was, this bit was Gemini, actually. Elite apologizers are masters of what they call apology etiquette, knowing exactly when to deploy strategic crying or present specific traditional gifts like premium fruit. Sorry, I ran over you, cat. Here's a pineapple.
Leanne ElliottSo it might be a bit Machiavellian as well and a bit manipulative at times.
Al ElliottI saw another one. God, I hope no one's got this, but I saw another one, professional mourner.
Leanne ElliottAnd I don't know if you've heard of that one.
Georgia HodkinsonOh, I haven't seen that one.
Al ElliottIt'd be a similar kind of thing. You'd have to be— you'd have to score high on the Machiavellian— what's it called?
Leanne ElliottYeah, Machiavellian. Yeah, maybe. I guess it's more influencing people though. But yeah, you probably need to be able to switch it on very quickly, wouldn't you? Yeah, so she's even a little bit psychopathic, you know, don't understand the emotion but can display it.
Al ElliottYeah. Anyway, anyway, so let's, let's do the questions. Let's do the scales.
Georgia HodkinsonUm, how weird is it I'm gonna go with a 4.
Leanne ElliottYeah, it's pretty freaking weird. I agree.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottWould I do it? Yeah, I think I would. I think I'd want the gossip, like, what did you do? What did you do?
Georgia HodkinsonOh, don't— yes! Oh, that's the psychologist in us though, isn't it?
Leanne ElliottI'd want the gossip, and then I'd want to be able to kind of like— you'd learn so much about people by how they respond to different apologies. I'd, I'd love to do this job.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah, 5. Yeah, 5. Yeah, yeah, I'm in there.
Al ElliottI'm in there. You could work on reception and then just take the calls. Then you get all the stuff without—
Leanne ElliottThat's true, actually. But they don't have to do the interview.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottAnyway. I'll be part of team, sure.
Al ElliottWhat's question 3?
Leanne ElliottWhat would you score a, like, a dinner party guest if this was their job?
Georgia HodkinsonI think I'd be creeped out by them. Like, I don't think I'd sit next to them because there's like a certain element of emotional intelligence that— have they got it?
Leanne ElliottYeah, you don't know which way they're going to be the most empathetic, sincere person in the world, Or they're probably gonna be a bit of a psychopath.
Al ElliottBut the good news is that if they spill wine on your dress, then they'd be very, very good at saying sorry.
Leanne ElliottI'd say a 2. I'm not sure I'd be that impressed as, as like a snake milker.
Al ElliottRight.
Leanne ElliottSo I'm gonna say 2.
Georgia HodkinsonI'm hovering around that region too. I think I'll go 2 as well. I'll go 2 as well.
Leanne Elliott2 as well.
Al ElliottOne fair boo.
Leanne ElliottOkay.
Al ElliottSo what's that grand score then? Am I, am I way behind?
Leanne ElliottUh, no, I think you're actually winning at the minute. Yeah, because you scored very highly on how, on how and whether would we do it, whereas the snake obviously got a zero.
Al ElliottTrue.
Leanne ElliottSo yeah, no, I think that might be in the lead.
Al ElliottOh no.
Leanne ElliottI swear to God, I didn't believe this was true, so I fell into some pretty, pretty deep Instagram holes, and I can confirm it is very much true.
Georgia HodkinsonMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottA chicken sexer.
Georgia HodkinsonSo this was my number 1.
Al ElliottOh, was it?
Leanne ElliottWas it?
Al ElliottRight, so—
Georgia HodkinsonSo I'm not going to try and answer.
Leanne ElliottNo, you should. You've done the research. Tell us, what do you— what else do you know? Did you find it weird when you were looking at it?
Georgia HodkinsonI found it weird, but also incredible. And that was down to the decision-making that goes on and the speed of which the decision-making that goes on. Yeah.
Leanne ElliottIt's really quite— It's quite impressive what it is. So, a chicken sexer, also known as a poultry sexer, a chick sexer, which I don't think works well, or a vent sexer. So, they basically, it does what it says on the tin. Within hours of hatching, every chick needs to be identified as male or female. So, a trained chicken sexer examines tiny anatomical or feather differences that are almost invisible to everyone else and sort chicks before they're sent to different parts of the poultry industry. There's about 100 to 150 qualified specialists in the UK, which is quite niche.
Al ElliottNiche. But then also, when would you— like, it's not like you suddenly get a delivery of chicks and you go, oh Christ, Leanne, get on, get the chicken sexer on the phone. We need someone round here this afternoon. It's not that sort of thing, is it? It's probably more like a—
Leanne ElliottWell, yes, you say that, but apparently the poultry industry The industry has reported a long-standing shortage of trained chick sexers, making it one of Britain's rarest agricultural professions. And shortage has even affected the UK's ability to export chicks. And you know what? It's pretty well paid as well.
Al ElliottGo on.
Leanne ElliottTrainees start at £25,000. Experienced chicken sexers typically earn £30,000 to £45,000. And if you're really freaking good at what you do, um, £50,000 plus. Um, almost entirely trained through An apprenticeship takes at least 3 years to reach industry standard.
Al ElliottWow.
Leanne ElliottI know, I know. It's, it's a, it's an incredible thing. As I said, I did find some very interesting Instagram Reels, and apparently the, some of the best chicken sexers are Japanese, to the point where in America, the majority of chicken sexers, in America, the majority of chicken sexers are of Japanese-American heritage, and a really, really good one can identify the gender of chicks at the rate of 1,200 an hour.
Al ElliottWait a second. Georgia, you give your reaction while I divide 1,200 by 60.
Georgia HodkinsonWell, I can do that for you. It is 20 per minute, which is a 3-second decision accuracy rate at 98%, which is the highly skilled people.
Leanne ElliottAmazing!
Georgia HodkinsonI just think that is just incredible. I mean, imagine the decision fatigue, obviously, Obviously, that shouts to me, but that is just incredible. I mean, imagine the skill rates. People that travel for this role can get up to £100,000.
Leanne ElliottWould I go back if I could and become a chicken sexer? Maybe. And I'll tell you for why. AI-proof, isn't it?
Al ElliottThat's true. Is it though?
Leanne ElliottWell, at that rate, at that rate, how quick is a machine gonna be able to—
Al Elliottunless they can just like scan it Well, there might be, or I suppose you'd— I suppose you'd still need the person to turn them upside down, wouldn't you?
Leanne ElliottWell, that's what I mean, unless they can like take a whole scan of them somehow, like body scan type thing. But I don't— still don't think that'll be quicker.
Georgia HodkinsonOkay.
Leanne ElliottUm, so yeah, how weird is this?
Al Elliott3.
Georgia HodkinsonI think it's weird. I'm gonna go for a 5. Oh really, 3?
Leanne ElliottI agree. I think it's weirder. I think you've underscored that, Al. But anyway, would you do it?
Georgia HodkinsonI don't think I'd make many friends through it.
Leanne ElliottFair.
Al ElliottI would do it.
Leanne ElliottWhat would you give it out of 5?
Al Elliott4.
Leanne ElliottGeorgia?
Georgia HodkinsonI don't think I'd do it. I'm gonna go 2.
Leanne ElliottI apologise. And how impressed would you be at a dinner party if you sat next to somebody who was a chick sexer? A 3.
Al Elliott3 for me.
Georgia HodkinsonCan I go it depends? Because I think if they were like at the skilled rate where they could do 2, um, you know, 3-second decisions, 98%, that is a skill. So I'm gonna go 5 if you Do you have a backup? I do, I do. And I'm glad, to be honest, because this one is really cool. Like, really freaking cool. I am obsessed with this, and I would do this myself. International Ice Patrol.
Al ElliottLea, thoughts?
Leanne ElliottWell, I guess the dark guess would be what we've kind of seen with America at the moment, ICE, isn't it? But the fact that Georgia wants to do it makes me suspect it's not that.
Al ElliottFair.
Leanne ElliottAnd it's actually literal ice, and it's something to do with ice monitoring purposes in cold places.
Al ElliottYeah, and I'm gonna guess it's to do with glaciers or icebergs in the Arctic Circle.
Georgia HodkinsonSo, you're both not far off. It's around offshore oil platforms in places like Canada. Teams consistently monitor enormous icebergs drifting towards the rigs that could obviously cost them billions of dollars if they are crashing. And in order to diverge the course of kind of conflict, they give it a little nudge because they rely on the current majority, but they kind of lasso it to give it a nudge in the different direction, and then the current does the rest.
Al ElliottI love that. Like cowboys in the Old Wild West. Yes.
Leanne ElliottIce cowboys.
Al ElliottIce cowboys. That's a better name for it. Ice cowboys.
Leanne ElliottIce cowboys. See, you can get Mark involved.
Georgia HodkinsonYes. Amazing.
Leanne ElliottHow does one become an ice cowboy?
Georgia HodkinsonSo, it's exceptionally rare. Only a handful of specialists in the world, a couple of hundred globally, specifically Canada, North Atlantic, and there's specialised courses to go on. It's not really a university course, it's more of a background in marine biology, in engineering, offshore operations. Um, yeah, and then there's like specialist training in that direction on how to kind of understand the course of icebergs. Now, the reason I want to do it is because imagine the travel involved, imagine the sights that you would see.
Leanne ElliottYeah, and I'd imagine something like that is fairly well paid, is it? Because oil— usually oil rig workers are well paid, aren't they?
Georgia HodkinsonSo, um, Canadian dollars, $80,000 to $150,000. Which converts to about £45,000 to £85,000, dependent on your expertise.
Al ElliottSee, now that's still not enough for me to start mucking about with ice on the North Sea. I've seen those videos.
Leanne ElliottOn a lake.
Al ElliottYeah, I've seen those videos of the boats going across the North Sea where like the waves are literally like 60 feet high.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah.
Al ElliottWould I do it? I absolutely would not do this. No, thank you.
Leanne ElliottReally? Like a hard no, zero?
Al ElliottHard no, zero, minus 5.
Leanne ElliottOh, I'm not sure. I'm that against it.
Al ElliottI would pay not to do it.
Leanne ElliottI dunno, I'm with Georgia. I think the, the sights would intrigue me.
Georgia HodkinsonIt's also a really good work-life balance because they have a couple of weeks on and a couple of weeks off.
Leanne ElliottOkay, so you're talking potentially earning 60, 75 grand for part-time work.
Georgia HodkinsonExactly.
Leanne ElliottI mean, that's not bad.
Al ElliottAnd also, let's be honest, if you were to— if you were only doing 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, you could probably in your 2 weeks off become a penguinologist.
Leanne ElliottTrue that. You're already there.
Al ElliottThere we go. Making, making, getting, getting your bag, as the kids say.
Georgia HodkinsonGreat idea.
Leanne ElliottSo, I don't know, Georgia.
Georgia HodkinsonI don't know that one specifically.
Al ElliottCool. So, what, what, where are we scoring it so far?
Leanne ElliottUm, I like that. Um, I, I'm, I would think like a, a 3 for me actually doing it. I agree the danger element is a bit of concern, but I would very much like to travel to those parts of the world. You gave it a hard zero. How weird is it? It's quite strange. You wouldn't— it's not something you'd go, oh, of course somebody needs to go and do that. Would you?
Al ElliottNo, but at the same time, I think someone— you'd give me that title of— was it Ice— Global Ice Patrol or something?
Georgia HodkinsonYes, International Ice Patrol.
Al ElliottInternational Ice Patrol. It does sound pretty cool, doesn't it?
Leanne ElliottYeah, it does.
Al ElliottI think if someone said it, it would sound cool, and then when they explain what they did, I'd be a bit like, oh, nice. More wine?
Leanne ElliottYeah, you'd imagine they're just gonna start talking about, would it be thermodynamics? Is that what that would fit into, that world? I don't know, some kind of physics I don't understand.
Al ElliottFluid theory, yeah.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah.
Leanne ElliottUm, I think it's kind of weird. I, I would give it a, a 3 on the weird scale.
Georgia HodkinsonAl?
Al ElliottYeah, I'd say the same, 3. I've been quite down the middle on these.
Leanne ElliottAnd in terms of a guest, I mean, I'm not as excited as if they were a snake milker or a penguinologist, but I think I'd be more excited than if they were an apology expert. So, I'm gonna go 3.
Al ElliottRight. Okay.
Georgia HodkinsonCan I give you a fun fact?
Leanne ElliottYeah. Please.
Georgia HodkinsonWell, it's fun. I think the travel element is fun.
Al ElliottI agree.
Georgia HodkinsonThe fun fact is the largest iceberg ever successfully redirected weighed 4 million tonnes. Yet they still moved it carefully using operational rather than brute force.
Al ElliottOh.
Leanne ElliottWhat's 4 million tonnes in a way I'd understand? Because that seems very, very big.
Al ElliottDo you want me to put it in terms of flakes?
Leanne ElliottI'm Googling, I'm Googling. A blue whale, it would be 26,000 blue whales.
Al ElliottOh, that's a lot of blue whales.
Leanne ElliottThat's made that job slightly more impressive at that point, hasn't it? Yeah. Well done, Ice Cowboys.
Al ElliottGood work. Yeah. And well done, Georgia, for pulling that back when we, when we dismissed it.
Leanne ElliottYeah, I'm gonna increase my, my guess score.
Al ElliottYeah, increase mine by 2, please.
Leanne ElliottYeah, by, by 2 full points.
Al Elliott4 points.
Leanne ElliottYeah, I'm the same. So that's put— oh, game changer, that one. Well done, Georgia.
Al ElliottRight, don't disclose the scores yet because this is like the, the final round.
Leanne ElliottYour last one.
Al ElliottGeorgia, I've got 2 here. I've got number 2 and number 3. Which one of those should you— should I go for? Which— choose one.
Georgia HodkinsonOh, roll the dice. I'm gonna go 3.
Al Elliott3. Okay. I think you probably have seen this because I know I've seen it before, but still, it is quite an odd, odd job. Again, Japanese. Oshiya. Oshiya. Oshiya. And it is called, the job title is a train pusher. Gotta go to the Midlands and ask Georgia, do you know what a train pusher is? I think you do, don't you?
Georgia HodkinsonI've heard of it, but predominantly in Japan. I've seen it on TikTok where they are pushing people into trains. Efficiency overload, potentially.
Al ElliottYep. That's exactly it. Leanne, have you come across those before?
Leanne ElliottNo. So, just on a busy platform, there's people just like shoving people into the train?
Al ElliottWell, yeah, their job is. And do they have like boards, or have I just made that up? They've got boards or sticks like brooms, and they're pushing people in. Have you seen that?
Georgia HodkinsonI've not— I've not seen that. I've only seen hands be used, but it could be true.
Al ElliottThese people are employed by rail networks in hyper-congested urban hubs. During the morning and evening rush, these workers stand on platforms, provide the final shove when a carriage is technically full, but the doors can't quite meet. They use their body weight to compress commuters into the carriage, ensuring the schedule remains millisecond-perfect without mechanical obstructions. No, not mechanical obstructions. That's just gonna be arms sticking out of the door. Yeah, so, any idea what sort of hourly rate?
Leanne ElliottI can't imagine it's that well paid.
Georgia HodkinsonI'm gonna say not too much, because I don't necessarily think there's going to be a university qualification in this. But then again, the safety element, you may get danger money. Ooh, I'm gonna go £40,000 to £50,000.
Al ElliottOh, interesting. Leanne?
Leanne ElliottI think it's a bit less. I think it's a bit less. I'm gonna go like $20,000 to $30,000.
Al ElliottI have to do some maths because I've just got it per hour. Oh, not much. It's $7 to $10 per hour on a 40-hour week, working 48 weeks a year. You're only on $19,000.
Leanne ElliottOh.
Al ElliottThat's not a lot, is it?
Georgia HodkinsonI went down the kind of danger money processing where you could kind of You know, lose a leg or lose an arm, or maybe even lose somebody else's leg or arm.
Leanne ElliottYeah, fall down the gap. I don't enjoy this. I don't enjoy this in terms of the person having to do it. I think they're underpaid. As Georgia said, it sounds like there could be a fair bit of danger there. I wouldn't like to be pushed onto a train myself. I understand keeping on time, but it seems a little bit aggressive in that approach. I don't know, is it just Japan that does this? And are their trains significantly more timely?
Al ElliottYes, Japan is very, very, uh, it's iconic in the Tokyo subway system. Um, it says it remains a specific cultural fixture of Japanese commute. They have been experimenting with other megacities like Mumbai or Beijing. Um, but no, it's very much Japanese, uh, because of the trains running on time. Uh, now I will just say to you, uh, you've just mentioned there danger money, not sure you like it. If you have watched the videos, people don't seem to be fussed about being pushed onto the train. Georgia, you've probably seen that as well.
Georgia HodkinsonNo, I agree. They don't seem to be But I'm just putting myself in this position where I'm in the middle of the train, people are being pushed into me, claustrophobia to the max. Mm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm. I don't care for it.
Al ElliottNo, I don't care for it. And to be fair, there's a larger proportion than normal of people who don't use deodorant on public transport. No, I just made that up, but they just tend to be anecdotally— Oh, yeah, anecdotally. Oh, jinx. So just, I'll read you this, then we'll do the scoring. Despite the aggressive nature of the act, they must maintain appropriate hygiene. Professional and apologetic demeanour. Their success is measured in seconds. If they can't squeeze that last person in within the dwell time— technical terms, sorry to get all technical on you there— the train leaves, often with the pusher bowing to those left on the platform. So there you go. So it's not quite— it's not as aggressive as you'd think. Anyway, very Japanese. So, Lee, do you want to ask the questions?
Leanne ElliottYeah. How weird is this job? I think this is pretty weird.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottI'd give it a 4 on the weird scale.
Al ElliottWhat, what are you giving it, Georgia?
Georgia HodkinsonI'm gonna go 3 because it's clearly in keeping with their culture, so it may not be as weird to them as it is us.
Leanne ElliottVery good point. Would you do it?
Georgia HodkinsonNo.
Leanne ElliottNo. I mean, if I, I'd, if I had to do it, then I'd do it over, over a snake milker, so I'd maybe give it a 1.
Georgia HodkinsonTrue. I'd prefer to do it over a snake milker. But then I'd prefer to do a penguinologist.
Leanne ElliottSo would you give it a 1?
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne Elliott2?
Georgia HodkinsonI'm gonna go 1. I'll go 1. 1.
Leanne ElliottAnd how impressive would this be as a dinner guest?
Georgia HodkinsonNot very. I'm not, I'm not very impressed. I'll sit next to you. I'm not scared of you, but, um, I'm not impressed as such. What do you think, Al?
Al ElliottI agree with you both. Well, Lee, what, were you impressed with it?
Leanne ElliottI think it— I'm with Georgia. I think like a 1. I think I'd be like, oh.
Al ElliottOh, yeah, yeah. No idea.
Leanne ElliottThere's not much to talk about. I push people on trains. Cool.
Al ElliottThe other one I was— the one you didn't choose was an editorial insights content analyst for Netflix and basically the Netflix tagger. Do you know what this is, Georgia?
Georgia HodkinsonI chose that.
Al ElliottThat was much better, isn't it? Basically, this person, this person sits and watches Netflix all day, and that's when they come up with these oddly specific tags like award-winning, visually striking, auteur cinema.
Leanne ElliottUm, and that's a person that does that. It's not AI.
Al ElliottTo be fair, this is in 2014. Netflix VP Todd Yellen told TechRadar, we have about 40 or so tags at the moment and looking for 1 or 2 more. Um, I think in 2026 there is probably zero, but we can ask Bill Yost because Bill Yost works for Netflix and Bill Yost is on in a few weeks' time.
Leanne ElliottYeah. Do they get paid much?
Al ElliottYeah, $92,000 a year.
Leanne ElliottShut up! No, $92,000 a year to watch telly.
Al ElliottYep, yep. But modern postings want roughly 4 years plus in film or TV, often a film studies background, um, and one even had a master's in critical film studies.
Leanne ElliottYeah, I'd definitely do it. But if you watch enough telly, you know whether it's like suspenseful or funny.
Al ElliottTrue, true. I got— I wish I'd picked that one. I wish I'd overridden you and picked that one. I would have gone, no, no, that— oh yes, funnily enough, number 3 is that.
Leanne ElliottWell, I think as well, because we don't know it's a job that exists today.
Al ElliottYes.
Leanne ElliottIt might have disqualified itself.
Al ElliottIt might have done.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottTalking of disqualification and not—
Leanne ElliottSorry, the guess. We neither of us were impressed. We give that— would you give it a 1 or a 2 for the, um, train pusher, Georgia?
Georgia HodkinsonIs that the weirdness or is that the— oh, impressed.
Leanne ElliottOn the guess, the dinner guest front.
Georgia HodkinsonYeah.
Leanne ElliottI'm gonna go 2.
Georgia HodkinsonI'll do 2, because I feel like I'd want to, I'd want to ask questions. I'd want to say, you know, how many arms have you kind of chopped off while you—
Leanne ElliottThat's a good point, actually. I will put mine up a point. I was only going to give it a 1, but actually there could be some good stories in there.
Al ElliottYeah, I bet there is.
Leanne ElliottYeah. Okay, so that is 13. We've got a draw.
Al ElliottGo on.
Leanne ElliottWe've got a draw. The best weirdest job is tied between the chick sexer. Yeah. And the polyologist.
Al ElliottAnd the what?
Leanne ElliottThe person that apologizes, is what they call it.
Al ElliottPolyologist? Oh, I like that. A polyologist.
Leanne ElliottA polyologist.
Al ElliottI've been saying that all day. Amazing. Amazing. Well, to be fair, you probably only have to— you'd have to go to Japan to do one of those jobs.
Leanne ElliottTrue. True. Well, there you go. If you're in Japan, then you've got a clear answer. And if you're anywhere else, become a chick sexologist.
Al ElliottBeautiful. Lee, shall we— I feel like we should wrap this up because I think we might have overstayed our welcome a little bit here.
Leanne ElliottGeorgia, before, before we go, do you have a favourite? Like, forget weirdest, just one that you're like, I, I like it, I enjoy it, I'm glad I now know about that.
Georgia HodkinsonPreviously, I'd have told you the iceberg, um, technician, um, international iceberg mover, but now that you've called it an apoleologist, I'm gonna choose that one.
Al ElliottFantastic. You win. You win this week.
Leanne ElliottAnd just to be clear, the ice people, we also renamed Ice Cowboys.
Georgia HodkinsonIce Cowboys.
Leanne ElliottIce Cowboys. There is that. I think mine's a snake milker. That's going to stay with me because it's the one that I'm going to say to someone, did you know that there's people? Do you know what I mean? But if you are an apoleologist, get in touch. Tell us, what's your job like? Is it as good as we think it sounds. Yeah, all brilliant stuff. So yeah, the world of work is a bit stranger than perhaps we realised. And beyond the jobs that we see every day, there are thousands of weirdly highly specialist careers that most of us never even knew existed. So, if you are just starting out on your career, open your mind to the world of weird jobs. You could become the world's greatest chick sexer. And if nothing else, you should now have a few stories to share when you're floating in the pool or down the pub on Friday.
Al ElliottYeah, well, that's it for episode 1 of our Summer Sessions. If you've enjoyed this little bit strange, different carnage, I suppose media carnage, podcast carnage, do let us know by commenting on Spotify or leaving us a review. In fact, only leave us a review if you hate it. Tell us if you didn't like this episode, then leave us a review if you love it. And genuinely, like you would've found out a couple of weeks ago, we do read every single comment, and we do actually make changes based on what people suggest.
Leanne ElliottWe do. And if you have an unusual job, or you've come across one that deserves a place on a future list, send it our way. We'll share it, share it next week. We'll maybe do a part 2. Georgia, thank you so much for joining us. I mean, I'm sure our regular— well, our regular listeners will know about you, and I'm sure are connected with you already on LinkedIn. But for anybody who isn't familiar, where can they go to learn more about your work, more about you?
Georgia HodkinsonMy LinkedIn is the best place, and my website is also up and running. Um, but yes, do message me on LinkedIn. I'm always open to new connections.
Leanne ElliottExcellent. We'll leave a link for that in the show notes.
Al ElliottFabulous. We're back on Thursday with our interview featuring Chris Lover. Chris Lover, best hair in the business, funny guy, genuinely lovely guy, and also went, fuck it, and just threw his toys out the pram and disappeared around the world about, about 5 years ago. Written 2 books on it. He's an absolutely fantastic guy. Next Tuesday, another Summer Session. Danny Wareham, the Danny Wareham. Yeah, everyone knows who Danny Wareham is. If you don't know who Danny Wareham is, then just, you know, you know, he's written a book. You'll definitely know.
Leanne ElliottYou can't be on LinkedIn, I think, if you don't. Tinked my glass.
Al ElliottSo he's going to join us for Corporate Family Fortunes. This is where Leanne and Danny go head-to-head to try and guess the most common answers to, to, to about work. I'm going to be the Steve Harley Harvey of the, of the, uh, um, of the thing. So, um, Vernon Kay? Vernon Kay is a— yes, probably. Yes, that's a—
Leanne ElliottWho did it back in the day? Who is that dude? Des Lennith? No, Des Lennith. I swear I've only had half a glass of wine.
Al ElliottRight, okay, until then, say goodbye, Georgia.
Leanne ElliottBye, Georgia!
Al ElliottSay goodbye, Leanne.
Leanne ElliottBye, Leanne!
Al ElliottBye!