Truth, Lies & Work

Episode 268 · 20 January 2026 · 54:11

Does complaining at work rewire your brain? PLUS! Gen Z growth hunting, wellbeing perks and how to manifest success

Does complaining at work rewire your brain? PLUS! Gen Z growth hunting, wellbeing perks and how to manifest success

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  1. Intro and News Roundup Kickoff

    news roundup#news#workplace#podcast

  2. Gen Z 'Growth Hunting' and What It Means for Employers

    news roundup#gen-z#career#growth#employers

  3. Does Complaining Rewire Your Brain?

    news roundup#complaining#brain#psychology

  4. Wellbeing Perks: The $200 Cleaning Stipend

    news roundup#wellbeing#perks#cleaning#stipend

  5. Truth or Lie: Can You Manifest Success?

    truth or lie#manifestation#success#myth-busting#psychology

  6. Workplace Surgery: Earliest Signs of Burnout

    workplace surgery#burnout#signs#workplace

  7. Workplace Surgery: Finding a Good Manager

    workplace surgery#manager#leadership#workplace

  8. Workplace Surgery: I Hate My Job — First Step

    workplace surgery#job-satisfaction#career-change#advice

Show notes

Does Complaining at Work Rewire Your Brain? PLUS! Gen Z Growth Hunting, Wellbeing Perks & How to Manifest Success

This Week in Work — Al Elliott and Leanne Elliott (Chartered Occupational Psychologist) break down why Gen Z workers are "growth hunting" rather than job-hopping, how constant complaining might literally rewire the brain, and why a $200 monthly cleaning stipend might beat another gym perk. Plus, in Truth or Lie: can you actually manifest success just by visualising it?

🔥 Stories Covered

1. Why are Gen Z leaving jobs so quickly? According to a Fast Company article by Jeff LeBlanc, Gen Z workers aren't job-hopping out of disloyalty — they're growth hunting. Nearly half of Gen Z plan to leave roles for better growth, not higher pay. 86% won't upskill without employer funding, and 43% feel too burnt out to learn outside work hours. Cost — not motivation — is the biggest barrier to development. When organisations talk about growth but don't structurally support it, people move on. Gen Z isn't rejecting work — they're rejecting stagnation. Source →

2. Does complaining at work make teams less resilient? Research highlighted by Stanford suggests that repeated complaining rewires the brain. Over time, neural pathways linked to stress and threat detection strengthen, baseline stress levels rise, small irritations feel bigger, and negativity becomes automatic. For leaders, this matters: teams that normalise constant complaining may unintentionally reduce resilience, decision-making quality, and psychological safety. Source →

3. What employee wellbeing benefits actually reduce burnout? After a LinkedIn post went viral, Slate introduced a $200 monthly cleaning stipend for employees. Why it matters: it removes friction instead of adding effort, gives people time and mental space back, supports carers and those under chronic time pressure — and research consistently links cluttered environments to higher stress. This reframes wellbeing away from "one more thing to do" and towards burnout prevention. Source →

🧠 Truth or Lie: "Can You Manifest Success Just by Visualising It?"

Lie — if it's about imagining outcomes alone. Truth — when visualisation is used to plan actions and effort.

Psychology shows visualising the process increases follow-through. Imagining success without action often reduces motivation. Leanne breaks down the difference between manifestation and evidence-based mental imagery — and why the research consistently lands on the same conclusion: imagery helps when it changes behaviour, not when it replaces it.

💬 Workplace Surgery

Three listener questions, tackled live:

  1. Burnout: "What's the earliest sign of burnout before someone admits it?"
  2. Hiring: "Is it genuinely hard to find a good manager?"
  3. Stuck: "If you hate your job and feel stuck, what's the first practical step?"

(Got a question? Submit it via the connect link below.)

🔗 More From This Episode

Connect With Us

Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect

Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14

Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.

Full transcript

Expand full transcript
Al ElliottComing up this week in work.
Leanne ElliottI have a new word. I'll explain it properly in just a bit. It's a new way people are treating work, and it matters for anyone who hires or manages a team.
Al ElliottAlso this week, new research out of Stanford suggests constant complaining actually rewires your brain. So those teams that moan together are actually training themselves to be less resilient. So what should leaders do when griping becomes the default?
Leanne ElliottAnd in Truth or Lie, we take on manifestation. Can visualising success actually change outcomes, or does imagining the win make you do less of the work that matters? I've read the evidence and I'll give you the verdict.
Al ElliottAnd in the Workplace Surgery, one listener asks, what's the earliest sign of burnout you should spot before someone actually admits it? So how do you catch it early and what actually helps?
Leanne ElliottThis is Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. The audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottMy name is Al. I'm a business owner, and I'm here to ask the questions you might be afraid to.
Leanne ElliottAnd my name is Leanne. I'm a Chartered Occupational Psychologist, and I'm here to answer them.
Al ElliottAnd together we help you simplify the science of work and build amazing workplace cultures.
Leanne ElliottWe'll be right back after a quick word from our sponsors.
Al ElliottThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all. Every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Al ElliottNice. Check out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses. Hello, hello. Welcome back, welcome back. Happy Tuesday if you're listening Tuesday. I'm not sure people— do you reckon people listen Tuesday? I suppose around the list, because all shows—
Leanne ElliottI think Danny does.
Al ElliottYeah?
Leanne ElliottYeah, I usually accidentally message Danny on a Tuesday evening. He's like, I'm— you're literally coming in my ear.
Al ElliottThat's a reference from Peter Kay, which incidentally Phoenix Nights is 25 years old this year.
Leanne ElliottNo, it's not.
Al ElliottI think it is.
Leanne ElliottNo, it's not.
Al ElliottIt is.
Leanne ElliottDon't stop it.
Al ElliottPhoenix Nights is brilliant.
Leanne ElliottSo old.
Al ElliottI know, I know.
Leanne ElliottOn a brighter note, happy squirrel— happy National Squirrel Association— no, what is it? Happy Happy National Squirrel Appreciation Day.
Al ElliottThat's just nuts. I love that. Happy— so where did you find that?
Leanne ElliottSo I was looking at, you know, they have those like lists of like international days.
Al ElliottOh, today's National Jelly Day or something.
Leanne ElliottYeah, because I try and like, I try and keep things fairly topical, or if there's something happening, link it in, you know, like we talked about Blue Monday last week and all that kind of stuff. Um, but there's not much else going on this month, but today is National Squirrel Appreciation Day.
Al ElliottUnless they're living in your attic, then I think I think we should all appreciate squirrels.
Leanne ElliottYeah. Do you know who does appreciate a squirrel?
Al ElliottIs it our hound?
Leanne ElliottPeanut.
Al ElliottPeanut the Podenco. If you— Podenco is like a Spanish hunting breed, and he's kind of like probably 70% it, but God, he loves a squirrel.
Leanne ElliottLoves a squirrel.
Al ElliottHe does.
Leanne ElliottHe's had a squirrel toy since he was a pup. That's always his favourite.
Al ElliottWe actually— oh, we're proper like dog parents. We've actually got a spare just in case he loses it.
Leanne ElliottOh, we're on squirrel like version 4, but it's the same toy.
Al ElliottIt's like Trigger's broom. Anyway, so we didn't come here to talk about squirrels, although, although, although, I tell you what, I'd like your opinion on this, listener. Get onto LinkedIn, tell us. We took down a Christmas tree yesterday.
Leanne ElliottYeah, we did.
Al ElliottSo what do you think about that? I look forward to your letters. Okay, Leanne, what time is it?
Leanne ElliottIt is time for the news roundup, Al. It's my favourite time of the week. Did I mention that?
Al ElliottYou don't need to. It's not contractual.
Leanne ElliottOkay, cue jingle.
Al ElliottYep, jingle being cued. Leanne, what have you seen?
Leanne ElliottI've got a new word.
Al ElliottOkay, you alluded to this in the intro. What is your new word?
Leanne ElliottIt's a, it's, can I say a new word if it's 2 words?
Al ElliottNew phrase.
Leanne ElliottNew phrase. Well, when does a, when does, I feel like a phrase needs to be more than 2 words.
Al ElliottWhen does a word not become a word? When there's 2 of them.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottYour 2 byword phrase.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottUm, catch term. There you go.
Leanne ElliottI have a new term.
Al ElliottDoesn't really work, does it?
Leanne ElliottNo.
Al ElliottWhat's your term?
Leanne ElliottGrowth hunting.
Al ElliottCareful how you say that. Okay. He's a right growth hunter, isn't he? Okay. Well, growth hunting. So I usually guess growth hunting, it's in the context of what? Recruitment, engagement, management, business?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottAll of those things. Okay. Is it just simply trying to get more growth?
Leanne ElliottGrowth from what? In what way?
Al ElliottLike you, darling. You're like 4 foot 8 and you want to— you're growth hunting all the time, aren't you?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottNow, is it more like you're trying to grow the business?
Leanne ElliottNo, it's more of an individual employee thing, actually.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottSo it's about me.
Al ElliottSchool me.
Leanne ElliottI will school you. This comes from our friend of the show, Geoff LeBlanc.
Al ElliottLove Geoff.
Leanne ElliottYeah, we love Geoff. If you haven't listened to his episode, if you've not come across Geoff, he is a lecturer at Bentley University. He has been tracking how Gen Z approaches the workplace, and in a brilliant piece for Fast Company, he suggests that younger workers aren't job hunting, They're growth hunting.
Al ElliottOh, I see.
Leanne ElliottSo they're not chasing titles, they're not waiting around for promotions. They're looking for momentum, progress, movement. They're in a hurry, Al. The kids are in a hurry.
Al ElliottThey just can't wait for tomorrow, can they?
Leanne ElliottNo. And if they can't find that where they are, they're going to move on and they're going to do it without guilt. So this comes from a study Geoff quoted from Youngstown State University, which surveyed 1,000 full-time professionals in the US. The results showed that nearly half of Gen Z workers are already planning to leave their current roles, not for higher pay but for better growth. And that figure was higher than any other generation surveyed. So 86% of Gen Z won't pursue upskilling unless their employer helps to fund it. So they're looking for the money as well. 43% say they're too burnt out to take on extra learning outside of work hours. And 76% say cost is the biggest barrier to their development, not ambition or interest. So what Jeff is basically saying in his article, that this isn't impulsiveness or disloyalty, it's a logical response to how work is currently structured, and actually points to a wider problem that many companies promote the idea of growth, but in practice they expect employees to figure it out for themselves, to fund it, schedule it, squeeze it in around full workload. So Jeff says that growth hunting is Gen Z taking that development talk at face value. If leaders say they value learning And Gen Z expect to see action, and when it's missing, they move on. Al, thoughts?
Al ElliottWell, that makes sense. Gen Z have— we've— they are bucking the trend very much. I mean, we— there's lots of studies. I seem, I seem to think there's as many studies out there showing that Gen Z want more money as they want more opportunities. But I sense from the very limited sample survey I've had with Gen Z is that it's not necessarily about the money. It's about just—
Leanne ElliottIt's not about the money, money, money.
Al ElliottIt's about, um, just want to make the world dance. Was that Gina G?
Leanne ElliottNo, Exxer, it was Jessie J.
Al ElliottI knew, I knew it was, I knew it was someone with a single, single letter. Uh, anyway, so—
Leanne ElliottShe's had a tough time, hasn't she?
Al ElliottJ?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottWhat do you mean?
Leanne ElliottShe had breast cancer and stuff. Oh my gosh. And then I think she got like dropped from her label and then all sorts of things going on and—
Al ElliottKeep it light.
Leanne ElliottThis is like— She's back on top now.
Al ElliottOh, is she?
Leanne ElliottYeah, yeah. She's got a new, new They're a bit, they're a bit shouty. No, they're a bit— what's the right— what's a polite word? Mumsy. Oh, I'm not sure that's a polite word.
Al ElliottNo, I'm not sure it is.
Leanne ElliottI might get cancelled for that. Anyway, Al, you were saying about Gen Zed?
Al ElliottUh, yeah, sorry, Jessie, uh, if you're listening, sorry about that. Uh, Gen Zed, yeah, look, the fact is that they want different things out of, out of work, I think, and it is cool. They obviously want to have a bit more flexibility. learn new skills. I have a sneaking suspicion they want to learn new skills so they can do some kind of side hustle with them. I think they're using work to bank the edge, bank the, uh, the training, um, so they could potentially use them themselves. And good for them. As someone who is unemployable, I, I appreciate it. I fully support that.
Leanne ElliottYeah, or they're trying to diversify income streams. It's whatever spin you want to give that, isn't it? I think, you know what, I don't think Gen Zed necessarily want anything that we all don't want. They're just louder about it. They're more open about it.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottI have seen this in clients that I've worked with where they've done, they've done half of the work. So they'll be like, they'll put in place like a development fund for people and then question why people aren't taking it up. And it's usually because, well, they don't know what is necessarily available. They haven't been coached through what development might be useful for them now and in the future, and they're expected to do it amongst a very busy, busy day job, and there just isn't the time. So I, I think what I like about this is Geoff kind of really pointing out that, yes, that growth hunting is important, but it's not just about making development opportunities available. It's about funding them. It's about making these career pathways clear. It's about promoting based on capability. So if you want to promote somebody to a management role, here's a crazy idea. Why don't you train them in management skills? So I think it's, I think it's kind of obvious. I think it's probably around for ages. I love that, that Geoff has put a term that makes sense and feels like it is, yeah, it's reasonable. I don't think it's outrageous. I like it.
Al ElliottNice one, Geoff. Geoff is a— Geoff's already, he's been on a couple of times, I think, on the show, hasn't he? But we've got a— what episode is it? Is it about 200 and something?
Leanne Elliott207. Yeah, we had a really good conversation about Gen Z, about burnout, about empathy and what that looks like in action. And if you're interested in more on that, he does have a new book out. It is called Engaged Empathy Leadership. It's out now. It is packed with lots of practical stuff really on how to lead with both, both heart and structure. And that again is why I love Geoff's work. It's about this lovely balance, isn't it? Being empathetic isn't about being soft, it's about being firm. Yeah, it's about being firm. And his model is completely science-backed, and it does focus, as I said, on this balance of fairness and kindness and accountability, which, let's be honest, a lot of teams need right now.
Al ElliottYep. So if you're looking for a new book to read in 2026, Engaged Empathy Leadership is definitely one of them. He's also a funny guy. He's just, he's from Boston, I think, and he schooled me on doughnuts. He said something about Boston doughnuts are different to other doughnuts, if I recall. I think I cut that bit out of the interview.
Leanne ElliottWe'll leave the link to his book, his episode, and Boston doughnuts in the show notes. In the show notes. I'll let you see them.
Al ElliottOkay, so I saw an article this morning, um, on X, which was about complaining and how it's proven to literally rewire your brain. X— I do like X, but a lot of stuff on X tends to be just a bit made up. This one's actually based on research at Stanford. You may have heard of Stanford. It appears in Stanford Medical News, and there is a link in the show notes. Here's the basics, right? So complaining literally rewires your brain. So if you repeatedly vent, then you're gonna strengthen what they call the neural circuits linked to stress, threat detection, and negativity. In other words, you're literally rewiring it to, to, to vent and to complain. Secondly, your brain obviously gets better at what it practises. So thanks to neuroplasticity— did I say that right?
Leanne ElliottYep. Yep. Looks like.
Al ElliottThe more you complain, the more efficient your brain becomes at spotting problems and anticipating the worst. Thirdly, temporary frustration can become a default mindset, they say. So over time, this shifts baseline stress levels upwards, making everyday irritations feel bigger and more emotionally charged. I definitely know some people who are like that. And finally, negativity becomes automatic, not deliberate. Once these pathways dominate, the brain starts interpreting the world through a threat-first lens, even when nothing serious is wrong. I'm—
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottI, because, because I did door-to-door sales back when, when I was a kid, and it was one of these companies were like, hey, let's talk about Tony Robbins in the morning, and just basically try and take your mind off the fact that you're gonna be in the cold, all the snow for 8 hours, knocking on doors, being told to piss off. Then I, I sort of got into this mindset now of I don't complain about stuff I don't think. I think I just, if something's really bad, I'll get a little bit annoyed for a few minutes, then I'll just try and move on.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottLeanne, what are your thoughts?
Leanne ElliottDo you—
Al ElliottI don't think you complain much either.
Leanne ElliottI think we complain about the same as each other and probably a fair amount. Yeah, we get frustrated when things happen that are a blocker to our goals or get in the way or feel unfair. Do we complain complain? I don't think so. And I, I, and the reason I feel fairly confident is I have a very Physiological reaction when I'm around people who are very negative.
Al ElliottYep.
Leanne ElliottLike, I want to run away as fast as I can.
Al ElliottYep.
Leanne ElliottProbably after slapping them with some kind of fish.
Al ElliottWhat would be your fish of choice?
Leanne ElliottOoh.
Al ElliottGood size.
Leanne ElliottYou don't want anything too aggressive.
Al ElliottNo.
Leanne ElliottSo we're not talking like a sea bass or bream that got quite like spiky.
Al ElliottYeah, yeah.
Leanne ElliottFins. And you don't want anything too big like a salmon or a tuna. It's just—
Al ElliottYou could kill someone then.
Leanne ElliottYeah, you really could.
Al ElliottYeah, yeah.
Leanne ElliottI'd say like a medium-sized sardine.
Al ElliottI, I agree. Meaning not, not the little ones you get in the tins. No, no, it's fat. Maybe one about, about the same size as perhaps the palm of your hand or something, I suppose. You know? Oh yeah.
Leanne ElliottThe size of your hand.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottLike, like base to top of middle finger.
Al ElliottYeah. Small mackerel, large sardine.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottPerhaps a medium-sized pilchard. Pilchard's a good word to say. Sure.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottAnyway, that wasn't what the news article's about. So why this matters at work, it's that the whole point is that if, if, if you're in a team that just sort of normalises this complaining, You may unintentionally train each other into lower resilience. Uh, you might be more likely to react quickly, and that's obviously gonna affect— well, obviously, but in my opinion, it's gonna affect your decision-making because you're always looking at the negative side. Now, the good news is that the research highlighted by the Stanford University School of Medicine, um, I was looking to see if that had got a, a fun acronym, but doesn't. It's called the, the SUSUM, uh, shows that these pathways can be redirected, but only once people understand what's happening.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottThey need to consciously practice different responses. And you know what? If you are a negative person, I hate to get all like universe and woo-woo, but I do think you manifest what you, but what you think about all the time. And I think if you're constantly thinking the world is a bit shit, then the world will be a bit shit. Isn't there like some kind of thing where, I forget what it's called, and reticular activation or something where you If you think about a red car, are you gonna go and buy a car? And suddenly you see that type of car all over the road. Is there a name for that? Do you know it?
Leanne ElliottProbably. I don't know it off my head.
Al ElliottIf I can find it, I'll edit it back in seamlessly. And so I think that's the thing. If you look at things negatively, you expect things to go wrong and you're just waiting for the hammer to fall, then it will because you'll notice the small things. Anyway, I'm getting a bit on my high horse here, so.
Leanne ElliottNo, I think, I think you're absolutely right. That's where kind of all this positive psychology stuff makes sense, isn't it? Things like gratitude journaling and being hopeful and optimistic and practicing that is something you can practice, and it does literally change, change the, the way your brain is wired.
Al ElliottI watched something from Jimmy Carr the other day. Um, by the way, I'm getting loads of stuff on, um, on, on TikShorts. What do we call it?
Leanne ElliottTikTube?
Al ElliottYouTube Shorts. I'm getting loads of stuff from Jimmy Carr at the moment, of him being quite serious, um, and quite interesting and like, you know, sort of philosophical. And this one particular one, um, he basically said that he does gratitude journaling at night. That's what he does at night, he says. And I don't just like write down, I'm so grateful to be a, you know, to be a world-famous comedian, which is why he says his words exactly. He said, I'm just grateful that today this happened and today that happened. And I'm a huge believer in that. It's not wanky woo-woo. It is something that just helps you remind that 100 things happen today, generally 3 of them will be bad, 60 will be medium, and then there'll be some good stuff in there to remind you anyway.
Leanne ElliottAnd like all these things, there is a technique to it. So if you are gratitude journaling, things like being very specific about what you're grateful for, linking it to people rather than stuffs.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottAnd remembering to be grateful for any kind of pain that's been taken away, not just things that are, yeah, that kind of good. So What was it? Oh, you had a sore tummy the other day, right?
Al ElliottOh, 3 days I had stomachache. We brought some gorgonzola back from Italy, um, and it sat in the car for 8 hours whilst we drove back from Italy to Mostar in Bosnia and Herzegovina. And, um, I'm not sure it did it any good at all because I had some stupid thing to have it late at night. When I say late at night, I'm an old person. It was about half past 9. Had some on Monday and then Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Oh my goodness. I honestly thought I was dying. I thought I was gonna have to And then suddenly I woke up the next morning, it was gone. And—
Leanne ElliottSee, that's something to put in your gratitude journal.
Al ElliottExactly. And it almost, it's almost worth having that stomachache.
Leanne ElliottAlmost.
Al ElliottJust to feel better the next morning. Anyway, what else you see, my love?
Leanne ElliottI saw a very cool article in Fortune by somebody called Christina Lee, who has just joined Slate, the company, as head of marketing. And she was talking about how she She shared a thought about burnout and wellbeing, and as there's so much around at the moment about burnout and wellbeing, I thought this was a very different take and something that is incredibly practical, practical, and I think every organisation should really think about in terms of how they put together their benefits, particularly this time of year. We're sometimes rethinking those, aren't they? Um, her suggestion, and it started through a LinkedIn post, was fairly simple. She said, why not offer a cleaning service Stipend.
Al ElliottWhat's a stipend?
Leanne ElliottA budget allowance.
Al ElliottFor cleaning?
Leanne ElliottYes. Cleaning employees' homes.
Al ElliottOh, I think you meant at work.
Leanne ElliottNo.
Al ElliottSo, so, so basically a company would go, there you go, there's X amount of money a month and you can go and get a cleaner.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottNow that's cool for a couple of reasons, isn't it?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottI like that. Go on.
Leanne ElliottWhy do you like it?
Al ElliottI like it because, um, I love a clean home even though I don't really like cleaning. Nobody, not nobody, some people really like cleaning.
Leanne ElliottSome people do get kicks from cleaning.
Al ElliottBut then also it's, it's helping fuel the economy a little bit by giving more work. And it's just, and you're basically employing potentially 2 people for the same price. I like that.
Leanne ElliottTrue that. Yeah. So Christina's argument was that while wellness things like gym perks are fine, they don't work for everybody. Not everyone wants to spend their limited free time on a treadmill. But for a lot of people, she said, a clean home does far more for their wellbeing than another thing to add to the schedule. So her point was, rather than kind of give me something I have to do, take something off my plate. It's very practical. It's very human. Yeah, I really, really liked it. Now, what she didn't expect— this was a LinkedIn post, just a thought from the sky out of things that could be useful to have as a wellness perk. What she didn't expect was for her company Oh, so the next day, Slate's HR team got in touch to say they'd seen the post, loved the idea, and leadership had agreed to add it as a benefit.
Al ElliottBrilliant. Please tell me they're calling the benefit Clean Slate.
Leanne ElliottOh, this is why they pay you the big marketing bucks.
Al ElliottNobody pays me the big marketing bucks. Sorry, you and me flow.
Leanne ElliottThey should. Um, yeah, so employees now receive a $200 monthly cleaning budget paid via a corporate credit card. company credit card, or it's reimbursed, which HR said made particular sense given that Slate is also fully remote. Of course it does. It makes all the sense.
Al ElliottI want to work for Slate.
Leanne ElliottSo do I. Eric Stark is the co-founder, if you want to go stalk him on LinkedIn. He said the— stalking Stark— he said the idea stood out precisely because it wasn't grand or flashy. He said that you don't need expensive programmes to make a difference. Sometimes the most impactful benefits come from listening closely and removing friction from people's lives. Yes, Eric.
Al ElliottYes, Eric. Eric gets it. Be more Eric.
Leanne ElliottI did do a little dip into the research just because it again it feels like you said it: a clean home just feels like a clean mind, doesn't it? And I think that is one of those cliché phrases that they put on like fridge magnets or something. But there is actually some psychology behind it. There's not loads of research, but the research that is has consistently. Shown that cluttered home environments are actually linked to higher stress and lower wellbeing. And this was from a study actually published just last year, that people who experience their home as chaotic or visually overwhelming report feeling mentally drained, and it affects their mood and life satisfaction as well. So there really is genuinely a link between not only giving people time back, which is a massive thing in terms of our, of our wellbeing and our sense of of self and control and detachment from work, but it actually does have links to improved wellbeing and mood and satisfaction. So yeah, I love it. Slate, bravo.
Al ElliottWell done, Slate. Well done, Slate. Right. Okay. Just before we take a very short break, I wanna quickly remind everyone that Amy McCarron, friend of the show, she's, you'll see her on LinkedIn. We're always having arguments on LinkedIn. She has a senior strategy circle that she's launching this January. It's called Do Workplace Health Right. It is 12-week program. It's closer, she describes it, closer to an executive MBA discussion group than any kind of training program. There's loads of great stuff on that. I've got not got the time to tell you about all of it, but Leanne Elliott, I believe she's you. She's going to be involved in it. You should definitely get involved in that. If you are interested, just check out the show notes. Then there'll be a link there to go and have a look at it. I believe there's about three or four days left. For you to sign up. Uh, there's some really, really quite big, um, speakers on there, including Leanne, obviously. Um, and then also the people who are coming, they're coming from all kinds of, uh, all kinds of things. Like, we've got HR directors, we've got occupational directors, we've got people from Saudi Aramco— that probably means something to someone— University of York. There's all kinds of people there. So I think it might be right up your street. So go and have a check it out.
Leanne ElliottYeah, it should be good. It's basically like everything you've heard about wellbeing that just feels really detached and impersonal and not very effective. It's about going, let's just forget about that and talk about what actually works.
Al ElliottYes, absolutely. So go and check that out in the show notes. Right. We'll see you in just a second for our Truth or Lie segment. We'll see you soon.
Leanne ElliottDid you know that the UK's number 1 management podcast— that's us, by the way— and the UK's number 1 marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network.
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioural science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good looking. And you're not gonna say which. Fel, host of Nudge, UK's number 1 marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in 3s— the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Leanne ElliottThe audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless. Seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. We've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioral science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.
Leanne ElliottIt is. It's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
Al ElliottIt can.
Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?
Al ElliottI am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back. Definitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this. So come back. I'll cut that out.
Leanne ElliottKeep that in.
Al ElliottOkay, welcome back. Time for Truth or Lie, our weekly myth-busting segment where we take a big psychological claim and ask, is it true or is it a lie? It's January. It's that weird time of the year. We're all a bit tired. I suppose we're saying we're reflective, but actually a lot of us are just tired. I see that all over LinkedIn. I'm reflecting on 2025. No, you're not. You just, you just want to look like you are. But I hope that we all are quietly ambitious, and I hope that we're telling ourselves that this is the year that things are going to change. And if you spent any time online recently, you'll have seen one idea everywhere. You'll see it in books, you'll see it on socials, in podcasts, in wellness spaces, even in business circles. The idea is that if you manifest success, i.e., if you visualize it clearly enough, believe in it clearly enough, align your thoughts with it, success will come to you. So this week's question is a big one and one a lot of people genuinely wanna know the answer to. Can you manifest success by just visualising it?
Leanne ElliottIt's a good one, isn't it? It is. It's a good one. I think before we go any further, I just wanna be really clear about what we mean by manifestation.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottBecause it can get a bit muddled. So manifestation, as it's usually talked about, isn't just imagining yourself doing something well. It's the belief that thoughts themselves have a kind of causal power. So if you picture the promotion, the relationship, the confidence, the money, and really believe it's coming, then the universe, your subconscious, or reality itself will somehow rearrange things in your favour. Okay? That is different from what psychologists call visualisation. So visualisation has been studied for years, and it's about basically mentally rehearsing things in your head. So the actions, the steps, preparing your mind.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne Elliottand your body to do something difficult. These 2 things often get bundled together, but psychologically they're doing very different things. So I just wanted to kind of mention that.
Al ElliottSo visualization is not just sitting there dreaming about winning the lottery. Visualization is actually— visualization, that's a bad example. Visualization is not about—
Leanne ElliottIt's quite a good, it's a fine example.
Al ElliottBut I'm trying to think of—
Leanne Elliottif you sit there manifesting that you're gonna win a lottery, but never actually buy a ticket, It's not gonna happen, is it?
Al ElliottTrue, true. But I was thinking more like, you know, some of the sports people like David Beckham, for example. He talks a lot about it where he will visualise. And also there's a, it's a winter sport. I wanna say the luge or something. Does that mean something to you?
Leanne ElliottNo.
Al ElliottMaybe I've just used a rude word that I don't understand. But the luge where they actually visualise, they visualise going down the course and then when they have to turn left or turn right.
Leanne ElliottOkay, like the bobsled.
Al ElliottThat's probably what it is. Yes, exactly. There's a, there should be a film about that or something. I, I put John Candy in there. Anyway, I feel like I've taken us slightly off course. Visualize, manifest. Cool. Got it.
Leanne ElliottYes. So in terms of can this mental imagery actually help us, there is no question at all that mental imagery can influence behavior. That's not controversial in psychology. That's just kind of like fact at this point.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottOne of the clearest examples comes from, as you mentioned, Al, sports psychology. So in a controlled study, they took absolute beginner golfers. Researchers wanted to see whether imagining the task would make any difference to how people trained. So everybody learned the basics of putting. That's the last bit when you put the ball in the hole.
Al ElliottYep. Yep. Or Southerners would say putting.
Leanne ElliottPutting.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottYes. One group was also taught how to use imagery. So how to picture the movement, the timing, the feel of the action, the sequence involved. In a successful putt. You can see like the movie kind of— Yeah.
Al ElliottMontage.
Leanne ElliottYeah. Of that moment, can't you?
Al ElliottYeah. Yeah.
Leanne ElliottWhat changed wasn't skill overnight necessarily, but it was behaviour. So the people using imagery practised more often, they practised for longer, they set clearer goals and were more consistent outside of the experiment lab. So basically imagining the task didn't make them magically better. It made them more engaged with the work of getting better.
Al ElliottMakes sense.
Leanne ElliottYeah. A similar pattern also showed up in a much larger study looking at physical activity. So researchers worked with 182 adults who weren't exercising at all and trained them to use different kinds of, kinds of imagery over 4 weeks. So some imagined the outcome, so feeling fitter, healthier. Some imagined the process, so putting on your trainers, going outside, moving your body.
Al ElliottAnd they're just imagining it at this point, visualising it.
Leanne ElliottYep. And some combined the two. So by the end of the study, it wasn't necessarily that the people using imagery were transformed, but they were doing more physical activity than those who didn't. So the researchers basically found that the imagery increased planning, intention, and follow-through. So the imagery didn't cause a behavior, it supported it.
Al ElliottThat makes sense.
Leanne ElliottYeah. And across the research, that is the consistent finding. that mental imagery can help people by increasing motivation, reducing anxiety, clarifying goals, and making the action feel much more manageable.
Al ElliottLove it. That makes perfect sense to me because often it's like, that's the biggest problem is actually going out there and putting your shoes on and going out for a run.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottEven just putting your shoes on and going out for a walk sometimes. You're just like, oh, well, I'll do it later. I'll just have a piece of chocolate sort of thing.
Leanne ElliottYeah, exactly. Exactly.
Al ElliottSo that's the case for.
Leanne ElliottThat's the case for.
Al ElliottI'm won by that. I'm, yep. Okay. I agree. But now we need to hear the case against.
Leanne ElliottYes. Well, this is more the case for manifestation.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottSo what we just heard about is visualisation. It's that mental imagery.
Al ElliottRight.
Leanne ElliottAnd you remember I said that manifestation's a little bit different.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottSo in terms of studies that have looked at manifestation itself, it's not quite as convincing, but it is still maybe useful. So in one large study, researchers measured how strongly people believed that thoughts alone could create success. And they also looked at very concrete outcomes of things like income, education, financial stability. People who believe strongly in manifestation tended to feel more optimistic and more confident about the future, but that belief had no relationship with actual success markers like income or education. So basically, feeling hopeful made them feel better about themselves, but didn't actually turn into better outcomes.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottMore so, strong belief in manifestation was linked at times to overconfidence, and poorer financial decisions because people were more likely to underestimate risk and assume that things would work out and end up in a bit of a pickle.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottSo, the explanation that researchers gave was fairly straightforward, and you, you probably got there yourself, is that if you believe success is guaranteed by belief alone, then you are less likely to check in with reality, seek feedback, or actually do the work that's needed to help move things forward. And other studies have shown a similar problem when people focus on imagining success, without imagining how they'll get there, so without vividly picturing the steps and just the end result, it can create a premature sense of reward. So, the brain feels a bit like the goal has already been achieved when it can actually reduce motivation. When researchers then looked at students using visualisation, the effects were only positive when the imagery was tied to effort, strategy, and practice. So, it is again this mental imagery of the process as well as the outcome.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottSo, imaging manifestation itself didn't improve improve performance. And all of the research basically gives you the same, same result. Thinking feels productive, but it's actually the action which is productive. So yes, manifestation does have a role. And as we've heard from the research, people who manifest these things, these successful outcomes, do feel more hopeful and more confident. So it's not to say that manifestation isn't necessarily a good thing. So long as it is tied with also the visualisation of the process.
Al ElliottRight.
Leanne ElliottThat's needed to get you there. So, it is a lie that you can manifest success just by picturing the outcome.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottBut what is true is that the imagery, the visualisation can help you act. So, when people imagine the process, the steps, the effort, the moment that they usually avoid, then they do practise more, they plan better, and they stick With it longer. So imagery works when you picture doing and achieving.
Al ElliottI love it. I love it. So I think manifestation, I think a lot of people will, they, they, they believe if they manifest something, it's magic and it's just gonna appear. And unfortunately, there are lots and lots of stories out there of someone who went, oh, I imagined this every single day. And then I came home and there was a big check waiting for me, or I'd won the lottery, or, or this person stopped me in the street and said, can you come and work for me? I've gotta, I'll give you a million pounds a month. And obviously those stories are stories because they are not the norm. They're the rule that, whatever that phrase is, is against the practice of the thing.
Leanne ElliottThe exception, not the rule?
Al ElliottThat's the one. The exception that proves the rule.
Leanne ElliottAgainst the practice of the—
Al ElliottI just dipped into my big word bag there and just pulled out a random load of words.
Leanne ElliottI think as well, it massively like, and that's what kind of frustrates me when When people talk about their success stories through this, oh yeah, I manifested this and I, I did that, and it's, it's like you're taking away from all the effort and work that you've put in. Talk about the work, talk about the effort. And I think that's where you and I really get our kicks from talented people.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottSo we'll like listen to interviews with like famous singers that we have no real interest in, but we'll hear about the hustle and the grind and how they played like underground gigs for 10 years and then suddenly had overnight success. And, and you and I appreciate that. We appreciate the— and actually all of us do. We, we like to hear about the effort. We, we, we value the outcome more. So value that in yourself as well. Invest in the process, you know.
Al ElliottTotally agree. Totally agree. And I think it's very lazy thinking really to go, I'm gonna manifest some things. Like, no, you're not. You're gonna have to get off your ass and do something about it. What's the, um, little— I said the little ginger kid. He's probably about 30. Um, uh, music. Ed Sheeran. Ed Sheeran, yes. Sorry, am I boring you?
Leanne ElliottYeah, just quite an immediate reaction I have to Ed Sheeran. I was just so tired of his voice.
Al ElliottYeah, no, he's insanely talented, but yes, um, I'm sure even Ed's a bit sick of Ed Sheeran himself. But you know, the, the stories of him playing, and there are actual YouTube videos of him playing to like 30 people. Yeah, he was like 12 or something.
Leanne ElliottAnd wasn't it that he couldn't get into like the Solo guitar slots open mic because they're always full, right? So he booked onto the hip-hop ones instead.
Al ElliottRight, did he?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottThe least likely, uh, the least likely hip-hop. Although, um, I'm trying— God, you know, I'm so terrible at names. Jamie Foxx is a great interview on Graham Norton with Jamie Foxx and how he introduced Ed Sheeran to a room full, and his words, a room full of very black, black, black people. Um, and, uh, and it, it didn't go the way you think. So anyway, right, okay. So, uh, is there anything else to add to that, love?
Leanne ElliottNo.
Al ElliottI feel like I just, just shut the door on So go manifest and visualise. I am manifesting some amazing answers to this week's surgery questions, which are coming up right now. Question 1, Leanne, what's the earliest sign of burnout? Burnout really has— burnout's that gift that keeps on giving. I just see it everywhere at the moment. So someone wrote in, said, um, hi, Al and Leanne, in your experience, what's the first sign of burnout that tends to show up? This is before someone's actually able to admit they're burnt out, not the obvious stuff like crashing and taking time off. But the subtle early signs people often miss. I'm trying to spot it earlier in myself and my team. Okay, so am I understanding this right, Leanne, that this is someone who wants to kind of spot it before potentially even the person realises?
Leanne ElliottSounds like that, doesn't it? Or in themselves.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottSo burnout has 3 main symptoms according to the official definition that we get from the World Health Organisation. That's basically exhaustion. So that's not just feeling tired, that's periods of of extreme tiredness over a long period. It also includes cynicism. So basically the negative thoughts we were talking about before in your Stanford research, Al, and detachment from work. So just not getting excited by it, not really kind of feeling it anymore. They're the main 3 areas. There's no, I don't believe any research that says which one might appear first or second or third or in what order. I think it's quite an individual experience. But anecdotally, and I say this because there might well be research out there and I haven't read it, anecdotally, I think the proper exhaustion is the one that comes last. I think that's when people like literally crash. I think, was it Sally Clark that told us a story of how she was visiting her brother and walking through the airport, got into his arms and literally just collapsed, fainted because she was so exhausted?
Al ElliottRight.
Leanne ElliottSo, I think more than likely, detachment from work, feelings of cynicism, feeling negative, just, yeah, being meh, I think is probably some, some signs, particularly if people are— that you know them to be more positive or more objective or even realistic. If you start to see this negativity creeping, that could be a sign. I think any changes in behavior, in appearance, could be a sign to anybody who is Maybe used to really be into a hobby and aren't engaging in that anymore. People who might be drinking more, people who might be using drugs, or, you know, kind of want to find that high. It could be, and I remember Kate Donovan talking about this, who's a burnout expert, has been on the show a couple of times. One of her things that she always talked about was like, if you are not finding time in your day to go to the bathroom, you're burning out.
Al ElliottRight.
Leanne ElliottAnd I've done that in my career at various points. I'm like, I just need to finish this. I just need to finish this. And I'd be dying for a wee. But I'd be still like, no, I need to get this done, that I'd stop those moments of very basic self-care. So, I think that's a good example as well from, from Kane, and then any other aspects of, of self-care as well. So, I think they're the subtle signs in yourself as well. You might experience physiological signs like stomachache. Hair loss can be a sign of stress. There's lots of different things that could point to.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne Elliottburnout in a way before, far before it gets to any kind of significant point. But I'd look for any subtle changes in behavior, any things that people loved they're not engaging with anymore, or anything around self-care, changes in appearance, or just how someone's looking after themselves could be a sign.
Al ElliottSo is it possible that someone will go through a period of cynicism, all those 3 things, cynicism, Detachment and exhaustion, was that the word? And it's not burnout. It's just that they are perhaps a little bit ill or they've got to— they're at the end of a project, which is a bit boring or a bit stressful. And then it would never— it wouldn't develop into burnout.
Leanne ElliottAbsolutely. Yeah. Burnout. This is— these are all of these symptoms over a prolonged period of time. It's having a detrimental effect on health and performance and relationships and every aspect of our life. So burnout is is a very chronic issue and is very detrimental to people's life and work and relationships. So yes, people will feel detached from work from time to time. They'll feel really tired if they're working long hours. They might feel a bit cynical if they've got a really rubbish manager.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottSo, there's going to be pockets where we will feel these things and perhaps all of them together for a shorter period of time. But the idea is that it's intense feelings of exhaustion and detachment and cynicism for a prolonged period of time.
Al ElliottI think that's possibly talking to the person who's written in with this question. That's probably the problem you're going to have is that you're looking for early signs of burnout. And the whole point is that burnout, you probably only notice it when it's mid to late because that's going to be over a prolonged period of time. Or is that unfair?
Leanne ElliottI think the more— it depends how well you know a person, right? So, You'll notice signs in me when I start to feel a bit burnt out. I'll probably go a bit quieter, a bit more inward.
Al ElliottI would say it's like someone's turned the volume down from 10 to 8 or 6 with you.
Leanne ElliottYeah, lose a little bit of, bit of brightness. So, if you know somebody really well, you will see the signs. If you don't know them so well, then yeah, they will be harder to spot, which is why in an employee situation, you also want to be looking at wellbeing from an organisational level. So, the things that I've talked about quite a bit recently, these psychosocial risk factors, the environment you're creating. You can also include this and should be including it, and we include it in our employee insight survey that we do with our clients, is a measure of wellbeing that will look at burnout, that will look at positivity, that will look at, um, basically if people are feeling cynical or not hopeful about the future of the organisation, so we can provide a composite score of wellbeing.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottFor the client and give them a norm as well in terms of how that's looking. So, it's not just a case of going, oh, everyone's feeling wonderful. It's a case of saying everybody is feeling levels of wellbeing that are in line with an average point that's not problematic. You know, it's not always about being like happy and bouncy. It's just not being burnt out, basically. So, you can include it as well in your employee insight survey, and you should be doing that as well.
Al ElliottYeah. If you're interested in more of that, then check out Kate Donovan's episodes, check out her podcast, check out— she's got an upcoming book from quite a new publishing house called Blue Goat Books. She's got a book coming out. So definitely, well, second book, I think, maybe even third.
Leanne ElliottSecond. Yeah.
Al ElliottSecond. Yeah. So go and check her out. Leanne's looking over my shoulder to see if she can find the first one, which should be somewhere behind us. We're about 2 months away from moving out of house. And I have noticed that We've got a little bit of burnout in this house in that we're not putting things back to exactly— we quite liked having all our books in one place and everything.
Leanne ElliottYeah, we're a bit detached, aren't we?
Al ElliottA little detached, we are. Anyway, on to question number 2. Is it really that hard to find a good manager? Leanne? Yes.
Leanne ElliottNext question.
Al ElliottLeanne, this person writes, I'm trying to take a bit of a step back from the day-to-day of running my business and bringing someone in to run things properly on the ground. The problem is finding the right manager feels like a bit of a minefield. I know how much I handle myself, and it might take 2 people to fully replace me. Okay. What I'm wondering is, how hard is it really to find someone solid? Someone you can trust to run things without it all falling apart? Ooh, Leanne.
Leanne ElliottIt's really hard to find someone solid. It's really hard to find somebody you can trust without things falling apart. But I'd say this is like step 5, and we're still on step 1.
Al ElliottRight.
Leanne ElliottYou know, I mean, what's really good is you've kind of said that it might take 2 people to fully replace me, and that's a question you have to answer in terms of the areas of your current role that you want to hand over, that you should hand over, and they're gonna be 2 different things. 'Cause there might be some kind of admin, more based tasks that you really enjoy doing, but, but somebody of your position shouldn't be spending their time doing those things. So, it's really going through your day, probably for a couple of weeks, maybe even a month, and kind of just writing down everything that you're doing, what's taking up your time, your energy. And with that, what do you want to hand over to get more energy back? So anything that you are spending your time doing that you hate and is taking energy away from you, that's something you definitely want to hand over to somebody else. Anything that is beyond your capability. So founders will be like, be everything, won't they? There'll be ops, there'll be marketing, there'll be socials, there'll be finance. And it might be that you really like Instagram, but if you're not very good at it, that might be something to hand off to somebody else as well. Same with, you know, marketing in general. It might be that there are some areas of expertise that now's a good time to bring into your business. What you're basically doing there is a very informal job analysis in terms of what the tasks that you want to hand over Are and the frequency of them. You can start to allocate a time period to that as well. So, you might be looking for 3 part-time people rather than 1 full-time person. It could be that you need to split out this role just to be able to find people with the right expertise that you can trust, and they can handle it all for you without things falling apart, rather than trying to expect to find 1 person who is a jack of all trades who can take on all of these various different things that—
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottThat you're currently doing as a founder. So start with exactly that, and then you'll be able to kind of understand what it is you're looking for. Is it one manager? Is it an administrator? Is it a marketing manager? Is it an ops director? Is it a team of freelancers and contractors that could come in and do project-type work? So you need to do this job analysis first. Once you've thought about the tasks and you've got an idea of some job descriptions and what they look like, Then you can look at more the person specifications, the type of experience they might need, education, background, knowledge, skills, abilities, all that kind of stuff. And then you'll be able to go to market and actually find somebody. They might be a management role, they might not. At this point, we don't know. If it does end up being a manager role, what I would recommend that you include in your recruitment process, and we want different ways to, to assess somebody's competency, competencies for the job, and that's gonna be things like interviewing or a work sample test.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottInclude some kind of psychometric Psychometrics there, but behaviour-based psychometrics. You want to understand how this person works within an organisation in terms of their ability to engage others, to influence others, and to manage themselves as well. So, definitely look at some kind of psychometrics there in the recruitment process. But I think the first step, which I think is sexy, but most people think is boring, is job analysis.
Al ElliottYeah. And if you want to learn more about job analysis, then go on to the show notes, send Leanne an email. Leanne, it's one of those things that everyone says, yes, we're going to do, and then no one actually does. So definitely get in touch with Leanne, book a call. And then sometime in March, I think we've got a woman called Kate Young. She's going to be talking more about job analysis as well. Now, I'm going to take a bit of a contrarian view on this. I don't think the person writing in really wants to find a manager to replace them.
Leanne ElliottOh.
Al ElliottI've been, I've been looking at the, at that, the, the email, I was going to say the letter, then there's no letter. Looking at the email, this phrase, "I know how much I handle myself, and it might take two people to fully replace me." This person wants to be important, in my opinion. This person wants there's going to be you. You're not some superhuman who actually does the work of two people in one day. You're not. You just well, you're very unlikely to be that person. There's some harsh words here, but I don't think you really want to replace it, or more importantly, you want to justify just how important you are in the business by saying you. do the work of 2 people and that you can't find anyone to replace them because you're worried that when you do find someone to replace them, they'll do a better job than you. Hmm. Sorry about that. That's, that's not a psychologist's point of view. That is, there's a fellow business owner who've been there kind of point of view. But, uh, is that unfair, Leanne?
Leanne ElliottNo, this is where, do you remember the big toddler energy?
Al ElliottYes.
Leanne ElliottFrom entrepreneurs. I think this is where it can creep in when you start to build a team. And if you've not been honest with yourself in terms of how hard things might be to give up and actually whether you are the right person to do it. You might enjoy it, you might want to, but if you're not very good at it, you're just going to cause friction in a business and there'll be somebody else thinking, I could do that better, and you should let them. So, it's as much as a psychological transition, isn't it, this, as it is a very practical one. So, yeah, I think there's lots of thoughts that need to go into this. And we're always in such a rush, aren't we, entrepreneurs? You know, they want to get that job advert out straight away, and it's almost, it's almost a surprise to them when they make a hire and it doesn't work out. And it's like, well, You need to put the effort in to find the right person. If you don't understand what you want, how are you going to find it?
Al ElliottYeah, exactly. If you're, if you're dating, the whole point of it, it's not a date, it's a relationship you want. So yeah.
Leanne ElliottYes.
Al ElliottYes. Anyway, right. Okay. On to question number 3. This person simply says, I hate my job. What's the first step? Sorry to hear that. I hate my job. I'm not even sure how it got this bad, but I feel completely stuck, like I'm in survival mode, just trying to get through the week. I know I probably need to make a change, but I don't have the headspace for big plans right now. Hmm. We've talked about this quite a bit already today. What I need is a first step, something small that might help me feel even a bit more in control. So what's the most practical thing someone in this position can do to start digging themselves out? This is really sad. I'm sorry for you. If this does resonate with anyone listening, then first of all, if it's practical advice you want, then check out the show notes. There's Leanne's emails in there. You can jump, you can book like 15 minutes with Leanne and have a chat. If it's worse than that and you are feeling really despondent, then check out, because there's lots and lots of links to people like the Samaritans and stuff where you can actually talk to. But so let's hope that this person's not quite there at this point. Lee, what's your thoughts?
Leanne ElliottYeah, I mean, that's hard to hear, isn't it? I feel like I'm in survival mode just trying to get through the week. There could well be an element of burnout here as well. There could be lots of other things going on. And I think with that, In terms of a first step, and this might sound really silly, but it's figuring out why you hate your job.
Al ElliottMm.
Leanne ElliottCould be really valuable because it might be that if you are experiencing burnout, it might be that you don't hate your job. You're just exhausted. You're feeling cynical about everything around you, and you're just feeling a bit detached from what the organisation is doing because you are overworked. You've hit a, hit a point of burnout. It could be that you actually love your job, it's just not the right organisation for you. It could be that you hate your job, you hate the industry you're in, and you need a complete career pivot. And I think figuring this out is so important for anybody who's, who's really feeling that they hate their job, because making that next move, it's going to be really important to have that clarity to maximise the chance of success for your own confidence and your own self-efficacy. So your confidence in doing Your job and just, you know, your financial prospects as well. If this doesn't work out well, it can be really tricky to, to move on from another job so quickly. Or if you do leave that job, pick up some CV, blah, blah, blah. So, I think much like our founder, I would just keep a little journal of things that you enjoy during the day, things that, whether it be interactions with certain people or customers, whether it be aspects of your job that You actually didn't mind. Any moments where you find yourself in a state of flow, so that's when you're doing a task and you look up and time has just quickly spun by. Anything that you're also, on the flip side, absolutely hating, something— the things that are dragging energy out of you that make you want to go to the bathroom and cry, tear your hair out, all the things. And just trying to identify the patterns of why you might not be enjoying your job right now. Is it the people? Is it the job? Is it the industry? Is it the organisation? Is it the customers? Is it the clients? Is it just the fact that there is so much going on in other areas of your life that work just feels too hard right now? So, as a first step, I would keep a little journal of, of your day-to-day and make a note of anything that you do and don't like. And don't forget as well to make sure this is tasks and people. People are going to be really important because if you're enjoying all of your tasks but hating all the people interactions you're having, that says to me, you don't hate your job, you hate the organisation that you're in. So, you're going to get some clues in terms of what's going on, and then you can make some decisions. After that, I would always recommend the VITALS model, Meg Selig, in Audrey Tang's book, Leader's Guide to Resilience. So, your values, your interests, your temperament, your around-the-clock, so the time of day that you function the best, your life goals, and your strengths.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottAnd reflect on those. I do have a handout for that, so give me a little email if you want that. And go through the exercise and figure out what your vitals are. The idea being that if our vitals aren't being met, our mental health and wellbeing is going to suffer. And figuring out where work is meeting some of those vitals, where other aspects of your life are meeting those vitals. And then we can look at what we can do to improve those vitals. So, for me, a big thing in my career was volunteering.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottI wasn't able to find that, that value alignment in my early career. So I joined the Samaritans and found huge amounts of value in that in terms of finding purpose and meaning and my people. That's where I met Al.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottSo I'd say that's the second step to it as well. But this can, this will feel overwhelming as well when you are just feeling like you're in survival mode. But in terms of something small that might help you even What, feel even a bit more in control is, I think, how you put it. That's what it's gonna be, 'cause it's understanding exactly why you hate your job. And once you've got that information, you can start to make some decisions more confidently.
Al ElliottOkay. Right. If you have a question that you want me to put to Leanne, then all the links are in the show notes. Links to everything we've said are in the show notes, I believe. Uh, that's everything for now. We are back on Thursday with a brand new expert interview. We'll be joined by Beth Sherman. She's a comedian and 7-time Emmy Award-winning writer. Basically, she's written for Ellen DeGeneres. I can't say her name for some reason. Ellen DeGeneres? How do you say it?
Leanne ElliottDeGeneres.
Al ElliottDeGeneres. She's written for Ellen. She's written for late night shows with all the people you've heard of. She's here to share how she uses humour to build trust, rapport, and confident decision-making. You don't wanna miss that one at all.
Leanne ElliottYou absolutely don't. And as Al mentioned before, it is a difficult time of year and things can feel a bit hard if you are struggling. struggling at the moment or know someone who is, we have left a list of mental health resources for you in the show notes, and my contact details are there as well if there is anything I can help you with.
Al ElliottYep, you'll find links to us on LinkedIn, Insta— are we on Instagram?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottThere you go, we're on Instagram. You'll find our website, which is now fully updated and it updates automatically.
Leanne ElliottYeah, it's kind of sexy.
Al ElliottYeah, I like that. I wrote that, I did. And, uh, and also how to get in touch with the show. So We'll see you Thursday. Bye-bye.
Leanne ElliottSee you on Thursday.
Al ElliottBye.
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