Episode 251 · 20 November 2025 · 51:06
WD-40’s Garry Ridge on leadership: "Any dumbass can do it"
WD-40’s Garry Ridge on leadership: "Any dumbass can do it"
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Intro: Profit is the applause of people doing great work
The mentors who shaped Garry's leadership
interview#mentorship#leadership#role-models
Servant leadership and Alec, the soul-sucking CEO of Fear Incorporated
Going back to school with Ken Blanchard and changing behavior
Purpose vs. product — the toaster story
interview#purpose#company-culture#wd-40
Psychological safety and learning moments vs. blame
interview#psychological-safety#learning#blame
Garry's stinky locker room and the Maniac Pledge
interview#communication#trust#culture
Who's most like WD-40 today and co-authoring with Ken Blanchard during COVID
interview#leadership#collaboration#covid
Where to find Garry and the dumbass quiz
Show notes
WD-40's Garry Ridge on Leadership: "Any Dumbass Can Do It"
Episode 251 — Al Elliott and Leanne Elliott (Chartered Occupational Psychologist) sit down with Garry Ridge, former CEO and Chairman of WD-40 Company for 25 years, author of Any Dumb Ass Can Do a Multi-Billion Dollar Brand, and founder of The Learning Moment.
Garry led WD-40 for more than two decades, taking it from a small American brand to a global organisation — all while maintaining engagement scores that most companies can only dream of. His belief is simple: "Leaders don't manage people — they help them get to where they need to be."
In this conversation, they go deep into what makes a great leader, why psychological safety drives performance, how to build a culture people genuinely want to belong to, and why treating mistakes as learning moments creates organisations that last.
Top 5 Takeaways
Belonging isn't soft — it's strategic. The foundation of performance is a culture where people feel seen, valued and safe to contribute. When people feel they belong, they take risks, share ideas and collaborate without fear.
Leaders create the weather. Teams respond to the emotional climate set by their leaders. Tone, behaviour and consistency shape trust more than any policy or engagement initiative.
Mistakes are learning moments. Instead of blame, Garry uses learning moments to build capability. This is how you grow confident, autonomous teams who solve problems instead of hiding them.
Clarity beats control. Garry's leadership model centres on aligned expectations, adult-to-adult relationships and reducing friction. When people know what's expected — and feel supported — performance takes care of itself.
The real job of a leader. Leaders are responsible for creating an environment where people can be brilliant. That means curiosity, empathy, consistency and genuine accountability — the kind that lifts people, not limits them.
More From Garry Ridge
- LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/garryridge
- The Learning Moment: thelearningmoment.net
- Book, Any Dumb Ass Can Do a Multi-Billion Dollar Brand: Amazon
Connect With Us
Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
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Garry RidgeIn 1999, about 2 years after being given the privilege to lead the company, I went to an information session for a master's degree in leadership at the University of San Diego. And I heard Ken Blanchard, who became my professor and still my long, longtime friend and mentor, say, most leadership programs get people in the head. We've got to start getting people in the heart. By learning the 3 most important words I've ever learned in my life, which are, I don't know, it gave me the opportunity to be the leader that really wanted to bring out the brilliance of others.
Al ElliottI think there might be some people listening going, yeah, cool, that's lovely, Garry, but I've got too much work to get out there and do all the things you're telling me to do.
Garry RidgeNo. Why would you say that? I'm going to tell you a secret. I had most of those bad leadership behaviors in a level of some abundance until I realized that they weren't serving me as a leader. And it was when I went back to school and I reflected on all of these and I said, well, I'm now intentionally, because I don't like that person, I'm going to intentionally do something about being better.
Al ElliottYou create this amazing place where people really want to be, and then profit follows. Is that right?
Garry RidgeProfit is the applause of people doing great work.
Leanne ElliottIn January 2021, one year into COVID, when the world was falling apart, Garry Ridge, the then CEO of WD-40, got engagement survey results that made him say, this can't be true. A full 97% of WD-40's employees globally said they were excited about their place in the company's future. Not just satisfied, excited during the pandemic.
Al ElliottWhen Garry dug deeper into why, the answer was actually devastatingly simple. Employees said, if I need to be anywhere right now, I wanna be here because I feel safe.
Leanne ElliottToday we chat to Garry Ridge, former CEO of WD-40 for 25 years, author of Any Dumbass Can Do It, and now the Dean of Dumbassery on LinkedIn. His words. Not mine. Today he's going to show us exactly how he built a culture where people feel more safe during a global crisis than most of us feel on a normal Tuesday. Hello and welcome to Truth, Lies, and Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioral science meets workplace culture, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a chartered occupational psychologist.
Al ElliottMy name is Al. I'm a business owner. And we are here to help you simplify the science of Today we're asking, what if everything you think you know about leadership is actually backwards? What if admitting I don't know makes you stronger? And what if putting yourself at the bottom of the pyramid instead of the top actually builds better companies?
Leanne ElliottGarry is going to introduce us to someone called Alec, the soul-sucking CEO of Fear Incorporated, and we'll discover why the opposite of fear isn't confidence, it's learning moments.
Al ElliottPlus, we'll hear about the dumbass quiz. Yes, that's a real thing. And why being steady like a donkey might be better than trying to be the smartest person in the room.
Leanne ElliottAfter this quick break, we'll join Al as he interviews Garry and discover why he went back to school while running a public company. This is honestly going to be brilliant.
Al ElliottThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all. Every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Garry RidgeNice.
Al ElliottCheck out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
Garry RidgeRight now I'm the Dean of Dumbassery is what I call myself. But what people might know me better for is the wonderful opportunity I had to lead the WD-40 company for 25 years. That little blue and yellow top, little blue and yellow can with a little red top that's in everybody's, well, a lot of people's houses and garages and whatever. Today my purpose is I help leaders build cultures of belonging where love, forgiveness, and learning inspire a happier, more connected world. And And the reason that's important to me is that I think business has an opportunity and a responsibility to make a difference in the world. And we can do that if we really concentrate on building cultures where people know and feel like they belong, they know the work they do matters, there's a high degree of psychological safety, and instead of managing them, we coach them. So I refired 3 years ago. I didn't retire, and I completed my 25-year apprenticeship in leadership. So now it's time for me to put it to work.
Al ElliottLet's start with the School of Dumbassery. I believe it's not just a random word, dumbass. I believe there's some meaning behind it. Tell us more about the School of Dumbassery and what it means.
Garry RidgeWell, yeah, I mean, the title of my book is Any Dumbass Can Do It. And, you know, you may— people may ask, well, why did you use the word ass? Well, the word A-S-S is not referring to anybody's posterior or bottom. It really refers to a donkey. And people give donkeys a bad rap. They think they're just stubborn or slow, but there's more to the truth of that. Donkeys are steady. They keep going long after others give up. They're loyal companions. You can count on them when the road gets rough. They're practical, not flashy. They know how to conserve energy and get the job done. And while they might not always rush into things, that caution often keeps them safe. So when I say any dumbass can do it, what I really mean is you don't have to be brilliant to be a great leader. You just need a bit of courage, a lot of care, and the humility to keep learning. Because like the donkey, leadership isn't about showing off. It's about carrying the load, sticking with the journey, and helping others get to where they need to go.
Al ElliottI think what you've just said there might make a lot of particularly new leaders or insecure leaders feel a little bit uncomfortable because we have this idea that leaders should have all the answers, but often they're afraid to make a mistake because they're gonna look dumb.
Garry RidgeWell, you know, I'm so glad that I looked dumb 30 years ago because of— by learning the 3 most important words I've ever learned in my life, which are, I don't know, it gave me the opportunity to be the leader that really wanted to bring out the brilliance of others. So my message to leaders who don't want to look dumb is you are. And if you think you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. Our job as leaders is not to be the smartest person in the room. Certainly we have to have a level of competency and experience, but our job is to unlock the brilliance of others because if we do that, not One of us is as good as all of us working on a problem solution or opportunity.
Al ElliottIs there someone who you looked up to when you were younger as maybe a mentor?
Garry RidgeWell, I think there's not just one person. As I write in the book, there were a number of people as I grew up in Australia that I was exposed to. On reflection later in my life, I realized what I learned from them. So I think that when I was given the opportunity to lead the company, and I'd been with the company for 10 years before I was given the opportunity to lead, I'd started in Australia, opened a subsidiary there, then moved to the US in 1994 to head up our global expansion program. I knew with the help of the people we had at the company at that time how to build the brand globally. We knew how to market it, but what kept going through my mind was, how do we build an organization now that the sun was never going to set on the brand? In other words, every minute of the day around the world, someone in the company would need to do something or make a decision. How are we going to empower them? And I didn't know how to do that. One of the reasons I found that to be important is when I worked in Australia, I worked in an operation that was in a different time zone and I found myself from time to time having to wait to talk to someone in San Diego Diego to get clarity on something or get an answer to something. And I found that to be quite disturbing because I couldn't get my job done as I wanted to. And in 1999, about 2 years after being given the privilege to lead the company, I went to an information session for a master's degree in leadership at the University of San Diego. And I heard Ken Blanchard, who became my professor and then my, and still my long, longtime friend and mentor, say, most leadership programs get people in the head. We've got to start getting people in the heart. And I thought, wow, how do we do that? And I went back to school and for the next 2 years while CEO of a public company, I learned from Ken and others the true essence of servant leadership, which was being able to lead to bring out the best of others. And overall, that was based on 2 things that I had read before going to that information session. I was actually on a Qantas 747 flying from Los Angeles to Sydney, 38,000 feet over the South Pacific Ocean, 2:00 AM in the morning. And I'm sitting there with that light coming down as it does from the headrest area and I'm reading. And I read a quote from the Dalai Lama, and it said, our purpose in life is to make people happy. If we can't make them happy, at least don't hurt them. And I thought, what a wonderful thing to be able to do in a business. And then I read a second quote from Aristotle, who was born in 384 BC, and Aristotle said, pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work. And I went, oh, duh. Of course, if you really like doing something, you're going to do it better. And then going to school and doing that master's degree, I was exposed to the leadership that needed to be in place to make those 2 things be true in an organization.
Al ElliottWhat does servant leadership actually mean?
Garry RidgeWell, let's go back to the principles. If we think about the beginning of servant leadership, I think about it like a pyramid. And at this stage, the leader is on top of the pyramid. And the leader's role is to ensure that there's a purpose, a set of values, and a strategic plan in place to take the organization forward. But then what we do is we turn the pyramid upside down and the leader goes to the bottom. And the leader's job now is to encourage, enable, and coach those within the organizations to meet the objectives of the strategic plan. Success in an organization is the will of the people times strategy. And this is where a lot of leaders get it wrong. You can have the best strategic plan in the world. You and I could write a great strategic plan. Let's take it to some smart professor, marks it up, said, congratulations, great strategic plan, 70 out of 100. But if only 30% of your people are going to work every day and passionately executing against that strategic plan, you are getting a result much less than if 80% of your people are going to work every day and doing that. And that's why it's the will of the people. And the will of the people is how engaged are they? And they'll be engaged if they know, feel like they belong in the organization and are treated that way. If they know that the work they do makes a difference, matters, and they're being recognized for that. If they're being coached, not managed, because you're don't manage people, you coach them. And if they've got an organization that has a high degree of psychological safety and a low level of fear, which means there's learning moments, not failures.
Al ElliottI want to theoretically push back on this. I believe you and I'm with you, but I think we intentionally say, oh, this person's the boss, they've made it to the top. What you're saying there is actually, if you want to be a really good manager, you're making it to the bottom. Then does that mean that you're going to have to switch off a bit of your ego? Because it sounds like that's not what a traditional boss does. They stand at the front and they tell people what to do.
Garry RidgeDid I ever introduce you to this person?
Al ElliottI was just trying to remember his name. Is it Alec or Alan?
Garry RidgeAlec. This is Alec, the soul-sucking CEO of Fear Incorporated. And the first thing about Alec is he has little empathy. He has a big ego. His ego eats his empathy instead of his empathy eating his ego. This person, and it could be Alice too, I don't want to be gender specific here. This person is a micromanager. They've got their fingers in everything. They're corporate royalty. I've spent my life climbing this corporate ladder. Thou shalt bow down to me. I have a nice big office. I never go to the cafeteria or the canteen. Someone brings coffee to me. That's if they can open my door because it's normally locked. They love the fear-based culture. They're a master of control. They're a know-it-all. They don't value learning. They must always be right. They hate feedback. Don't you ever give me any feedback now. And they don't keep their commitments. But if they're a servant leader, servant leaders love and involve their people because they know that's where the gold is. They're always in that servant leadership mode. As a coach, my role is to help you step into the best version of yourself. They are expected to be competent and they love learning. One of the biggest responsibilities of a leader is to be a learner and a teacher. What are we learning and what are we teaching? They are connected. They spend a lot of time in what I call the stinky locker room. They love learning moments because they know a learning moment is one step away from a great opportunity or experience. They have a heart of gold, but they also have a backbone of steel. They're champions of hope. They know micromanagement is not scalable. They do what they say they're going to do. They're very dependable and they treasure the gift of feedback. back. There's the 2 comparisons between Al, the— or Alec, or Alice, the soul-sucking CEO of Fear Incorporated, or a servant leader who's there to help those they have the privilege to lead step into the best version of themselves.
Al ElliottIt sounds like finding the opposite of Alec is almost impossible. Is that right?
Garry RidgeNo. Why would you say that?
Al ElliottBecause it sounds like What you're describing there is like a superhuman person who's got to have all of these different traits of being amazing and having no ego and not being an Alec. And it just sounds to me like if I've got a team of 30 people, I'm like, where am I going to find one of those people?
Garry RidgeWell, you know, those 30 people are there and they can be the servant leader. And what I've learned in the coaching work that I do now, and as you know, I coach CEOs, is most leaders do not get up every morning and put this up and say, I am Al or Alec. I'm going to be Alec today. They don't know how their behavior is negatively impacting those they have the privilege to lead. So my challenge is, are you aware of the leadership attributes you have that align with Alec? And if you are, then you can intentionally move away from those. I'm going to tell you a secret. I had most of those bad leadership behaviors in a level of some abundance until I realized that they weren't serving me as a leader. And it was when I went back to school and I reflected on All of these. And I said, well, I'm now intentionally, because I don't like that person, I'm going to intentionally do something about being better.
Al ElliottSo take us back to the classroom. You are walking into the classroom with Ken Blanchard. You realize at some point you've got all of some of Alec's traits. What happens next?
Garry RidgeWell, the next thing you do is you decide how are you going to change that behavior? So you need prompts. For example, I needed to be better at recognizing and praising people. So for I don't know how long, I had written on the palm of my hand, praise somebody. So I'm trying to change my neuropathways. In fact, even today in my little notebook that I have that I've been carrying around different versions of it for many years, I have a little placard on here. And this little placard says, am I being the person I want to be right now? And then it says, who is that person? And there's a list. And it says, I want to be grateful. I want to be caring. I want to be reasonable. I want to be a listener. I want to be fact-based. I want to have a balanced opinion. I want to be curious. I want to be a learner. And I want to throw sunshine, not a shadow. I think I've been carrying that list around for I don't know how many years, and I still need to, and I do refer to it. When I don't think I'm being the person I want to be right now. And that can happen because the world impacts you. At the end of the day, we are just these basic human beings bumbling our way down this pathway of life. And in the bushes are these thieves that come and grab us and they take us into the bushes. Thieves of ego and greed and impatience and, you know, all of these things. And we are in there for a minute and we think, well, this is not so bad. But if we don't have a way of reminding ourselves that that's not who is our best person and move back onto that bumbling pathway, we will never get to our destiny. So it's awareness and intention that is very important. What happened to me when I went back to school is, and with Ken and others, they made me aware of how If I intentionally was going to change the way I led, I would be a better leader and I would be a better person. And they were right.
Al ElliottI've got a note here saying that, and I'm going to read it. It says WD-40 wasn't in the lubrication business, but the memories business. That seems like an odd thing for essentially a commodity or a CEO of a commodity to say. What do you mean?
Garry RidgeWell, your product is not necessarily your purpose in life. In my book, I talk about a toaster. And I talk about a toaster being a love experiencing machine and what it does, it turns a piece of bread into something that you enjoy your favorite spread on. So what's the purpose of a toaster? It's not to necessarily— what it does is it makes bread toasted, but what its purpose is, is to create this love environment with you in the morning. So if you think about a product, if we said that our product was our purpose, It would be fairly boring. But if you think in the case of WD-40, we said we existed to create positive lasting memories, solving problems in factories, homes around the world. We solved problems and we created opportunities, which is a much more engaging way of making a difference to something bigger than yourself. If I said to a group of people at the company, good morning everybody, we are going to stop a squeak today. Everyone, whoa. But if I said to everybody, you know what, what we're going to do today is we're going to create some positive lasting memories with people as they solve problems and create opportunities by using our product. And I will guarantee, even though you still have that old can, you can tell me a time when, in a memory of when WD-40 made you a hero or you did something with it that created a positive position in your life.
Al ElliottYou, yes, you should put money on that bet because as you were saying this, I got, I got this really vivid image in my head of my dad's backside sticking out of a, sticking out from behind a fridge or something and saying, son, hand me that. Hand me that. And he didn't say, hand me the lubricant. Didn't say, hand me the lorry. He said, hand me that WD-40.
Garry RidgeExactly.
Al ElliottIs that what you're talking about?
Garry RidgeExactly. We have so many stories of people working with their grandpa or pop or father or whatever in the fields and whatever, and they still remember the smell. And it was that environment that was so important. And the great thing about it too was our second value in the company was we value creating positive lasting memories in all of our relationships, whether that be a relationship with our customers and our end users, whether it be a relationship with the people within the company, with the communities that we lived in. And even in the environment that gave us the permission to exist. So we would often ask ourselves, will this action create a positive lasting memory? Will this innovation create a positive lasting memory? Will this decision create a positive lasting memory? And that's what empowered people to make decisions in the organization because we said if they used our values, they could make any decision they want, any time they want, any place they want, any hour they want.
Al ElliottSo I want to put you— put us in a situation where imagine that I am the CEO or MD of a web hosting company. It's bytes. It's not a particularly interesting company. I'd be listening to you going, yeah, that's cool, but how are my engineers? How are my salespeople actually going to create memories when all we do is host ones and zeros and it's a website?
Garry RidgeWell, I don't know that they— that would be their purpose. They would have to create their own purpose within the organization. So if I was the CEO of this web company with ones and zeros, I would go to the people within the organization and ask them, what difference do you think you're making in the world today? How do you think what you do makes a positive— talk about it. And I'm sure through conversation, what would come out of it was, we don't do ones and zeros. We create opportunities for people to communicate with each other, or we create opportunity. I don't know what it is, But there is a toaster somewhere in that company, what I would call the toaster theory. You know, if I said to you, I make toasters, tell me what our purpose is, would you tell me it was, I'm a, you know, a lovemaking machine?
Leanne ElliottWe've heard about servant leadership. We've met Alec, the soul-sucking CEO, and we know that WD-40 isn't really in the lubrication business. They're in the memories business. But here's a question: how do you actually build a culture where people feel safe enough to admit they don't know something? Where mistakes become learning moments instead of career-ending disasters? After this short break, we'll discover what psychological safety really means, and hint, it's simpler than you think. We'll also learn why Garry banned the word failure from WD-40. See you in a sec. Did you know that the UK's number one management podcast, Us, by the way.
Al ElliottYeah, yeah.
Leanne ElliottAnd the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network.
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioural science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good looking. And you're not gonna say which. Phil, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in 3s—
Leanne Elliottthe HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless. Seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil.
Garry RidgeWe've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioral science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff and do some big things about how this affects the world of Politics, business, and brands as well.
Leanne ElliottIt is. It's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
Garry RidgeIt can.
Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?
Garry RidgeI am.
Al ElliottGo and listen to Lunch wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back.
Garry RidgeDefinitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this. So come back.
Al ElliottI'll cut that out.
Garry RidgeKeep that in.
Al ElliottPsychological safety. It's a word that, oh my goodness, is bandied around LinkedIn. And it— most people have either no idea what it truly means, or they're just using it to look like they do know what they're talking about. So imagine I haven't got a clue. This is the first time I've heard this term psychological safety. What does it really actually mean?
Garry RidgeReduction in fear. That's it. How do I create an environment where the fear of failure is not the dominant emotion? The fear of questioning your leader, the fear of an error that you made being discovered and therefore you being a failure. And that's why we, and I invented the learning moment. A learning moment is a positive or negative outcome, of any situation that needs to be openly and freely shared to benefit all people. So let me be clear, learning moment is not a get out of jail card. But what it is, is the ability for people to talk about, hey, this is what I was setting out to do. This is the path I took. I didn't quite get the result I wanted, and here's what I learned from that journey. Now, Let me give you a very beautiful example of that. Back in 1953, there was a little company in San Diego. It was called Rocket Chemical Company, and Rocket Chemical Company worked in the aviation business, and they were about creating solutions for corrosion and whatever. There was a problem with condensation and corrosion with the Atlas space rocket. And the engineers at Atlas went out to the community of businesses and said, can anyone help us solve this problem of condensation and corrosion in the Atlas space rocket? And the chemists at WD-40 started formulating solutions. And formula 1 didn't work, 5 didn't work, 10 didn't work, 12 didn't work, 25 didn't work, 35 didn't work. You know where I'm going? 36, 37, 38, and 39 did not work. 39 learning moments. Each one of those learning moments added value to the next discovery of the next improved formula. Formula 40 worked. Birth, water displacement, WD-40. So WD-40 was the outcome of 39 learning moments. And if we hadn't have had 39 learning moments, we would not be talking today. Now, I'm pretty happy 39 didn't work because I don't think WD-39 sounds anywhere as good as WD-40. Later on, we were able to use that experience as a true example of the power of the learning moment. I think they were, at that time, the chemists were just Really, really dedicated to finding some solution. So they kept going. It was a very small company. Later on, the company name was changed to WD-40 Company and the rest is history. But when we started talking about the learning moment, I was able to use that as a beautiful example of how the learning moment theory is something that is just one step away from some great experience. So, You know, we, we used it all the time in the company. The learning moment was so powerful.
Al ElliottSo let's go back to this fictitious web company that I've just made up. So imagine a situation where someone deletes something, something important. They delete maybe a customer's website. If Alec was running the company, this is that puppet we talked about before, Alec. If Alec was running the company, I'd imagine that this person would be looking for a new job very, very quickly. But if you are running the company, how are you dealing with that situation? Something catastrophic.
Garry RidgeWell, firstly, there are degrees of learning moments. Now, if this person consistently deleted this website, then that's not a learning moment, that's a competency issue, maybe even negligence. But let's say this happened one time. So the immediate response would be, help us understand what happened around you deleting that Because what we want to do is we want to learn from that and we want to make sure every other engineer that is in the organization is aware of the path that they may go down that could cause this. And I talk about in the book, I talk about way back in IBM, someone went to the CEO of IBM and this person had made a They didn't call it a learning moment, a mistake, and it cost the company, I don't know how many hundreds of thousands, let's call it half a million dollars. And he went to the CEO, came along and the person said, well, I just cost us half a million dollars. I guess you're going to fire me. He said, fire you? I just paid half a million dollars for you to learn that. Now you better go tell everybody else how not to do what you just did.
Al ElliottI think there'll be a few people listening who are managers or perhaps leaders, and they're like, yeah, but if I went, that just cost me half a million, then am I giving other people permission to go and lose me half a million because it seems like I don't care?
Garry RidgeWhat happens if that person hid that? What if they didn't talk about it? Now you're exposed to 10 half-a-million-dollar same learning moments. Things are gonna not go right all the time. You know, if you followed baseball, you know, The top baseball hitter hits about 300 out of 1,000 balls. He has 700 learning moments which help him hit those 300 balls. If he wasn't paying attention to why he didn't hit that ball, he wouldn't be improving his swing and therefore being in a situation where he's going to increase his ability to be the number one baseball player. Or whoever, you know, the number one goal kicker in soccer. Do you think he became number one by not missing that goal so many times? No, he missed a lot of goals.
Al ElliottI think that a lot of people at this point would go, okay, I see what you're saying. I totally get it, Garry. I'm a believer, but how do I know when I get it right and when I get it wrong in a company? Is the behaviors of my employees that I can go, Oh, there is psychological safety now, or, oh no, I've got work to do.
Garry RidgeAre people talking to you? Are people open with you? When you put a meeting on their Outlook calendar, do they call in sick? How open are you? Or do they say, I can't wait to be with Al because I know that I'm going to have a great experience? And are you making yourself available to them or are you not spending time in the stinky locker room? I talk about a great coach and coaching. If you're being a great coach, a great coach knows what it takes to win the game. A great coach never runs on the field and steals the ball. A great coach never goes to the podium and picks up the prize. A great coach spends a lot of time on the sideline observing the play and looking for opportunities to help that player with a redirection of how that player could play better. And a great coach spends a lot of time in the stinky locker room because that's where you build trust and psychological safety.
Al ElliottSo as the CEO of WD-40, where was your stinky locker room in the company?
Garry RidgeEverywhere, whether it be in our offices in Madrid or Bologna or Sydney or Shanghai or Mexico or Monterrey or wherever, or San Diego. But, you know, I had an office in San Diego that was 10 by 10, the same size of everybody else's, and I didn't spend a lot of time in that office. I was out there listening to people, asking them, are you okay? What's on your mind? How can we be better? How can I support you? What do you need? Where do you think we need to be better explaining about where we're going? How do we do all this? And that wasn't just me. That was then the the culture that was embedded in our organization that we were people that really, really talked about getting our shoes dirty.
Al ElliottYou just mentioned there you had a 10 by 10 office, the same as everybody else you just said there. Is that part of it? Is that that you need to have these sort of optics of going, I'm no better?
Garry RidgeWell, yeah, my office was 10 by 10. Every office we had, was 10 by 10 and they were all glass front, no blinds. And all of our people that had cubicles all had the cubicles that faced the windows, so they had natural light. We didn't have the ivory row. We didn't have private parking spaces in the parking lot. If you wanted to get near the front door, get in early. So yeah, no, we were very much about, I wasn't about corporate royalty at all.
Al ElliottI think there might be some people listening going, yeah, cool. That's lovely, Garry, but I've got too much work to get out there and do all the things you are telling me to do. What would be your advice for those people?
Garry RidgeThey're micromanaging. The biggest complaint of I've got too much work as a leader is they're micromanaging. They're not spending enough time teaching and empowering their people. They're wanting to do it all themselves. So I would suggest that take a look at the fact to see whether you are being, whether you have to have your fingers in everything. Remember what I said about Al? He is a master of control and he wants to be a micromanager. Well, give it up. And if you have a clearly defined set of values and a clear purpose, then you don't have to be there to make every decision that needs to be made. You're empowering others to do it, but you have to do the work to put those elements in place in your organization. Firstly, you need to have what I call a people mindset. So the first thing is, do I have a people mindset? Do I truly believe that empowering people in my organization is one of the most important things I need to do? Then do you have a clearly defined authentic purpose? Why do we go to work and are people buying into that? I often say, imagine a place where you go to work every day, you make a contribution to something bigger than yourself, you learn something new, you are protected and you are set free by a compelling set of values and you go home happy. So people, purpose, values, and then the learning moment is Reducing fear and a great amount of care in the organization, candor in the organization, accountability. Are we clear about what we expect from each other? In the book I wrote with Ken Blanchard called Helping People Win at Work, our byline is, I'm not here to mark your paper, I'm here to help you get an A. So are we clear what an A looks like if it walked in the room so we can have a sensible discussion around what we're trying to achieve together? And then responsibility. Are we taking responsibility for our actions and our communication with people in the organization? There's a terrible disease in organizations that I named the na-na-na-na disease. It's called the finger-pointing disease. And we created something in the company called the Maniac Pledge. And it was a pledge that I call the vaccine against the na-na-na-na disease. And what it really says is, The maniac page says, I am responsible for taking action, asking questions, getting answers, and making decisions. I won't wait for someone to tell me. If I need to know, I am responsible for asking. I have no right to be offended I didn't get this sooner. And if I'm doing something others should know about, I am responsible for telling them.
Al ElliottTell us some more things. that you did in WD-40. So we had the Maniac Pledge. What else did you do?
Garry RidgeWell, we had our purpose statement. Our purpose in life is— we had our values, our hierarchical set of values. Hierarchical values are there so that anybody in the organization can make any decision they need to make anytime, and they need to be hierarchical. And hierarchical means the strongest value is number 1 and the less stronger value is number 6. So that people can't cherry-pick the value. Our number 1 value is we value doing the right thing. Our number 2 value is we value creating positive lasting memories in all of our relationships. Our number 6 value was we value sustaining the WD-40 company economy, which was our value about profitability. And you would think that it should be number 1. And why I called it that we wanted to continue to sustain the economy is because an economy in a business is made up of a lot of things. And in a thriving economy, most constituents benefit. So if we lived our first 5 values, then our 6th value would become a reality. And so we didn't make decisions just on making profit, We made decisions. Firstly, is it the right thing to do? And secondly, will it create a positive lasting memory?
Al ElliottIt sounded like this was a perfect situation for a company that was already vastly profitable. But what you're saying there is that it's not profit comes and then you create this nirvana. It's you create this amazing place where people really want to be and then profit follows. Is that right?
Garry RidgeProfit is the applause of people doing great work.
Al ElliottOh goodness. Say that again.
Garry RidgeProfit is the applause of people doing great work.
Al ElliottThat is beautiful. There is a soundbite right there. I almost like don't wanna move on from that because I feel like that was just, we should just end it there. You should drop your mic and leave the stage. You talk a lot about this word apprenticeship. You started off the beginning of it all saying, I started more, I'm on my apprenticeship. Do you think there's much more to learn in terms of leadership for you?
Garry RidgeWell, I say that a great leader is a forever learner and a forever teacher. And certainly I learn every day. I would ask our people, when was the last time you did something for the first time and have you realized what you learned from it? And everybody, I would guess, who's with us today did probably did something today for the first time, but how often do we recognize we did it and what did we learn from it? But yeah, look, there's so much learning going on in the world right now. And I think a lot of people get confused around the uncertainty and uncertainty. The most certain leaders are the ones who can sit comfortably in uncertainty. So maybe isn't indecision, it's an intelligent practice. Some of the learning moments in leadership is when I wanted to add more value to a situation than I had the right to add, the learning moment was be a better listener. I remember one day I had someone come into my office and they were describing a situation and And I wanted to jump in and add too much value, which was useless because I was going to add just a little bit of value, but I was going to reduce their motivation substantially. And I love, it's one of the leadership traits in Marshall Goldsmith's book, What Got You Here Won't Get You There, which is the basis of my coaching practice. We as leaders, sometimes we want to add too much value. So one of my big learning moments is, is what I'm going to say worth the words or am I just trying to make out I'm smarter than anybody else? And if the answer to that is yes, well, shut up. If it's not hell yes, well then it's hell no. So again, when people say we're in this roller coaster kind of life, well, a roller coaster's a lot of fun if you think about it. You get on, you go down and get off and And then hopefully you get off the roller coaster and say, gee, I've gotta get on that again and have another ride on that. That's pretty good stuff. So I think that's important.
Al ElliottSo looking around at modern-day companies, where do you, who do you think is most like WD-40 when you were leading them?
Garry RidgeI'm on the board of another company called Gorilla Glue. And Gorilla, you know, if it's stuck, use WD-40. If it isn't, use Gorilla Glue. You know, and I think Gorilla is a company that has a culture that's very aligned with a clear purpose, a clear set of values, and really respecting people because they belong and they matter. There are other companies out there that I haven't had the opportunity to sneak and look under the hood that say they do. I know Southwest did, the airline, for many years. I've heard that that's changed a little bit. I don't know. So I'm not sure I qualified to say who that is without really intimately knowing the company. I think there's a lot who say they do. You look at their employee engagement and not sure that validates what they say.
Al ElliottWhat I'm sensing from what we're saying here is that a great leader creates a company, not a great company goes and finds a great leader. Have I made that too simple?
Garry RidgeA leader has the opportunity to create an environment where there can be a great company. And it's pretty clear that the fish rots from the head. So if you don't have someone who appreciates the value of people and understands that unlocking that potential is what's going to make the company great, Then the chances of that being a great company are probably less.
Al ElliottTalk to me. I mean, you author, co-author with Ken Blanchard. Oh my goodness, what an accolade. You just dropped a name there. Oh yeah, I'm friends with Simon Sinek. You obviously knock around with some great people, but tell me what, if you're looking back, what would you say was your proudest moment so far?
Garry RidgeIt was January 2021. One year into COVID, and we'd been operating since the prior March in a different environment. And we had a very high employee engagement, lots of good scores just in the March when COVID hit. And we'd been doing a lot to keep what I then called the tribe together, to keep us engaged and enforce the fact that people belonged and they mattered. And I said to the folks, look, I want to go and I want to do a a pulse check and make sure we're not draining cultural equity here. Let's go out and see. So we went out and we did our normal, what we would normally do is our survey. And the results came back and they were equal to what they were in March, which gave me a lot of comfort. But there's one that went up. And the question was, I am excited about my place in the company's future. And 97% of our people globally were positive to that comment. And I went back and I said, that can't be true. We're in January 2021. There is no sign that we have a confident answer to COVID. People are upside down and topsy-turvy. How can they be confident? in their place in the company's future. The data's crap. Go check it out. They came in and said, no, it's true. I said, okay, I got to know why. So then we went out and we asked the next one, why did you answer like that? And the overwhelming response was, I feel safe. If I need to be anywhere right now, I want to be here. And I said, mic drop, that's it. It's like, how can they say that when we're in this environment? Because they feel safe. We were living our just cause, which is a group of people that come together to protect and feed each other. That was our just cause. And they said, if I needed to be anywhere right now, I want to be here because I feel safe. And I think it was because when COVID hit, we went out and we said, there are only 3 things we're going to We're going to focus on as we go through this journey. Number one, the safety and the wellbeing of our people is our number one goal. Number two, serving our customers the best way we can, where we can, when we can. And number three, protecting the underbody of our business so that when this is over, and we believe it will be, we will thrive. And that's what we've concentrated on every conversation, every meeting. Are we taking care of our people? Are we serving our customers? And are we protecting the underbody of our business so that when this is over, we will thrive? will thrive. That gave people hope. And I even get goosebumps now when I talk about it. I said, if there's anything that would ever give me the opportunity to say job done, that was it.
Al ElliottPeople will want to hear more about you. So I've got written down here thelearningmoment.net. Is that the best place or?
Garry RidgeYeah. Yeah. My website is thelearningmoment.net. Go and take the dumbass quiz. If you go to my home landing page, there's a little tab there and you can take the dumbass quiz and It will give you your score of Damastery. The higher the score, the better leader you are. And I'll send you a little playbook after you've filled it out. You can find me on LinkedIn. I post there a couple of times a week usually, and I'm sharing. And of course, the School of Damastery is also on LinkedIn and you can join in there. And I share again, scar tissue and learning moments and things that I think are important around building great cultures.
Al ElliottFabulous, Garry. It's been a genuine pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.
Garry RidgeIt's been— and look, I wanna thank you for doing what you do because you help get this message out here that we have a job to do, and our job is to build organizations where people go home happy. So if it wasn't for folks like you who are amplifying this good work, then it wouldn't even be worth it. So thank you.
Leanne ElliottThat was Garry Ridge, and honestly, the 97% story still gives me the goosebumps. Here are my top 3 takeaways for leaders who want to build amazing workplaces. First, the 3 most important words in leadership are, I don't know. If you think you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room, my friend. Your job isn't to have all the answers, it's to unlock the brilliance of others. Lesson 2, there is no such thing as failure, only learning moments. Psychological safety really isn't that complicated. It's just a reduction in fear. When people aren't afraid to make mistakes, they're free to innovate, experiment, and bring their very best work. And lesson 3: profit is the applause of people doing great work. Stop chasing metrics. Start building a culture where people know they belong, know their work matters, and above all, feel safe. The business results will follow. Garry's approach isn't theoretical. This is what created a company where 97% 97% of employees wanted to stay during a global pandemic. That's not luck. That's intentional servant leadership. And remember, you don't have to be brilliant to be a great leader. Like the donkey, you just need to be steady, loyal, and willing to carry the load.
Al ElliottThis is Truth, Lies, and Work. We'll see you next week.