Episode 228 · 2 September 2025 · 53:26
How to Plan Q4 Like a Psychologist (and Actually Stick to It)
How to Plan Q4 Like a Psychologist (and Actually Stick to It)
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Exercise 1: STOP — a mindfulness reset
Exercise 2: Three Good Things — gratitude with science
Exercise 3: Future Self Vision — planning with perspective
Exercise 4: WOOP — turning wishes into action
Exercise 5: Energy Intention — carrying the right mindset
Wrapping up: how to make it stick
Show notes
How to Plan Q4 Like a Psychologist (and Actually Stick to It)
Episode 228 — Al Elliott and Leanne Elliott (Chartered Occupational Psychologist) turn the tables for a special coaching episode. With September in full swing and Q4 looming, Leanne becomes the coach and Al the coachee as they work through five evidence-based exercises to reflect, reset, and refocus for the final stretch of the year. Grab a notebook — you can do every exercise right alongside them.
🧘 Exercise 1: STOP — A Mindfulness Reset
STOP is a simple four-step tool for breaking out of autopilot and regaining clarity:
- S – Stop what you're doing
- T – Take a breath
- O – Observe what's happening: your thoughts, feelings, and body
- P – Proceed with greater awareness
It's especially useful before tough meetings, responding to heated emails, or when stress spikes. As Leanne notes, the key rule is to notice without judging — just observe what's there.
🙏 Exercise 2: Three Good Things — Gratitude with Science
At the end of each day, write down three things that went well and why. Research from Martin Seligman's team at the University of Pennsylvania shows this simple practice boosts happiness, resilience, and sleep quality.
For a September reset, reflect on three good things from your summer. Al's picks? Dogs that don't win competitions, a quiet summer with no complaints, and the kindness of strangers during the couple's recent travels. It helps you carry positive energy into autumn — and reminds you what you value most.
🔮 Exercise 3: Future Self Vision — Planning with Perspective
Our brains treat "future us" like a stranger, which makes long-term planning harder. Research from UCLA psychologist Hal Hirschfield shows that visualising your future self helps close that gap.
Imagine yourself three months from now (end of Q4):
- What have you achieved?
- What challenges did you overcome?
- How do you feel?
Write it down as if it's already happened. Al's vision? Getting the top-secret RX-7 project off the ground — something four years in the making. The exercise revealed something surprising: it wasn't the revenue that excited him, but the change it represents.
🎯 Exercise 4: WOOP — Turning Wishes into Action
WOOP is a research-backed goal-setting framework developed by psychologist Gabriele Oettingen:
- W – Wish: What do you want to achieve? (Make it challenging but achievable)
- O – Outcome: What would it look and feel like if you succeeded?
- O – Obstacle: What could get in the way? (Focus on internal barriers)
- P – Plan: What will you do when that obstacle shows up? (Use an if-then statement)
Al's honest obstacle? Procrastination — driven by perfectionism and the fear that the idea isn't good enough. His plan? "If I face procrastination, I'll remember I'm a scientist testing a hypothesis. It's not the idea, it's an idea."
⚡ Exercise 5: Energy Intention — Carrying the Right Mindset
Instead of just asking "What do I want to achieve?", ask:
- "How do I want to show up?"
- "What energy do I want to bring to my team, my family, my work?"
This reframes success as not just outcomes but how you live and lead every day. For the end of September, Al's intention? Feel energised — which comes from having that first customer call booked and done.
📝 How to Make It Stick
- Write your WOOP down and keep it visible
- Revisit it after 4 weeks — you may need to create a new one based on what you've learned
- Break big outcomes into tiny September-sized actions (Al's: book one call, not launch the whole product)
- Use STOP before meetings, emails, or when you feel yourself emotionally reacting
Connect With Us
Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
Expand full transcript
Leanne ElliottHappy September! Hello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. You say this along with me at this point, don't you? My name is Leanne, I'm a biz— no, I'm not, I'm a chartered occupational psychologist.
Al ElliottYou got it wrong. My name is Al and I'm a chartered business owner.
Leanne ElliottWe are here to help you simplify the science of work.
Al ElliottYes.
Leanne ElliottHappy September, guys.
Al ElliottHappy September. We made it through summer. Well, no, summer's not over.
Leanne ElliottNo, no, it's not. But it is, the change is a-coming, isn't it? The kids are back at school. September is the end of, if we wanna be corporate, Q3. So we are looking towards the, yeah, the rest of the year and thinking, how do we make this all come together and make 2025 a good one? So this week we thought we'd do something a little bit different. And I guess think about this episode as your own mini self-coaching session. Um, so yeah, there's this thing called the fresh start effect, right? You've heard about it, usually around October time when the pumpkin spice lattes start hitting our Starbucks shelves. And it's that temporal landmark that just acts as a natural stopping point for us to pause, reflect, and make some changes moving forward. Um, so yeah, that's what we thought we'd do over the next 20 minutes. I'm going to guide you through evidence-based exercises that are going to help you reflect on the summer, set some direction for the autumn, and create a focused plan for Q4. I'm sorry, is there any other way to do it? I don't know. The end of the year.
Al ElliottI think we're gonna have to be corporate for a second. Q4. Yes. And I'm gonna be doing this right alongside you so you can hear what it sounds like in practice. Now, just so you know, I've read, I've read Leanne's outline, but I've, we've not done any of this before. So you're going to hear me probably stumbling. And asking questions, hopefully the same questions that you'd be asking.
Leanne ElliottYeah. And if you wanna do this as we go along, I'm going to leave all of these exercises in the show notes. So go there, have a look through, and you can work your way through with us.
Al ElliottSo we're gonna kick things off right after this short break with something called STOP, which is from someone, a psychologist's name that I can't even say. So we'll see you in a second. The dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, But it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Al ElliottNice. Check out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
Leanne ElliottWelcome back. Our first little coaching exercise, Al, and I'm not sure people do this enough, right? You sit down to plan, make some big decisions, explore some stuffs, but do you, before you do that, do you take a time to kind of just pause and stop and clear your mind so you're ready for it, or just jump straight in from one routine to the next?
Al ElliottNormally, being honest, normally if I've got an idea, I'll jump on ChatGPT and I'll chat it out while I'm out with the dog. And that often helps, but it's not really a STOP, it's more of a Jupiter.
Leanne ElliottWell, we're gonna start with the STOP. It's a mindfulness technique and it comes from, if you're interested, because some, actually a lot of the people that I coach are really interested in understanding the science behind it. So I thought I'd explain some of it as well. So STOP comes from Jon Kabat-Zinn's Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction program, and it's been studied pretty extensively. extensively since the late '70s. It is also used in dialectical behaviour therapy, and research has shown that even brief mindful pauses like this can improve our focus and our decision-making because it's breaking our autopilot patterns.
Al ElliottSo STOP is like an acronym, is it?
Leanne ElliottIt is exactly that. So the S is stop what you are doing, T is take a breath, O is observe what's happening, and proceed with intention is the P. So whether you're walking, driving, or sitting down right now, you can do this. So let's do it together. Obviously, if you're driving, don't close your Yes.
Al ElliottDon't do that. Don't do that.
Leanne ElliottOkay. So first we're gonna stop. So, Al, I want you to stop whatever it is you're doing. Pause for a moment. Now take a deep breath. I want you to inhale slowly through your nose and then exhale slowly through your mouth.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottLet's do that again. Through the nose and exhale through the mouth.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottNow we observe. So I want you to ask yourself, what's going on in your mind right now?
Al ElliottA little bit less than a few minutes ago.
Leanne ElliottYeah?
Al ElliottYeah. I have to admit that I was, I was a little concerned when you gave me so much time to inhale and I could only inhale 2 seconds. But—
Leanne ElliottSo what emotions are you feeling?
Al ElliottI don't know I'm necessarily feeling an emotion. I just feel a little calmer, a tiny bit calmer.
Leanne ElliottAnd in general, in terms of At kind of this point of the year, what emotions are keeping you?
Al ElliottI think there's a little bit of trepidation about the final part of the year because it does go really quickly. And it's, if you're not careful, you go, oh, that's Christmas. And you go, what have I actually done? I kind of wasted the last couple of months. So I am worried about wasting September, October, and November. Not bothered about wasting December because that's meant to be wasted. But so yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking at the moment.
Leanne ElliottAnd what's happening in your body at the minute? Any tension, excess energy, restlessness? Yeah.
Al ElliottUm, yeah, I do feel a little bit of tension. Um, I'm always a little bit restless, I think, when it comes to this time of year because I'm like, I want to go ahead and do it. I want to go and do the things and action the things, but I tend to just, like I said before, I tend to just start them and then go, oh well, I'm halfway through this and either lose interest or go, well, I've gone down the wrong path.
Leanne ElliottOkay. So this is probably the most important rule around mindfulness activities. Notice it. Don't judge yourself for it. You don't need to go to that step. Just notice that you're feeling a bit restless, that you're feeling a bit energetic, a bit, a bit nervous. We don't have to attach any judgment to that.
Al ElliottFair.
Leanne ElliottOkay. Um, and now let's proceed with intention. So given what you've just noticed, what do you most need to do right now? What would be the most helpful next step?
Al ElliottI think Honestly, I've got, there's lots of things I want to get done by the end of the year. I think honestly, it would be good to identify like the number one thing that, that if I got that done, it would make the most, the most impact. And as the Americans say, move the needle.
Leanne ElliottAnd how do you want to continue with this session? What's the kind of the main thought, feeling you're going to take, take through with you into it?
Al ElliottUm, oh, can you explain that? Give me an example.
Leanne ElliottSo I guess, is it something that you want to be curious? You just want to explore ideas? Is it you want to be focused? You want to nail down this number one thing? Is it that actually you just want to talk about everything that's been going on and reflect?
Al ElliottNo, I want— I, at the end of this, I would love to say, right, the one thing we're going to do is X, and the steps are broadly 1, 2, 3.
Leanne ElliottSuper. So we've stopped, we've taken a breath, we've observed that feeling a little bit apprehensive, a little bit nervous, a little bit overwhelmed potentially by the next few months.
Al ElliottYeah, that's fair.
Leanne ElliottUm, so we're gonna proceed with the intention of focus.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottAnd trying to get all those thoughts.
Al ElliottIf I'd said something else there, then would that change the exercises you'd planned, or would you still do them with a different idea?
Leanne ElliottIt wouldn't change the exercises, but it would change how I'd check your thought processes and behaviours as we're going through it.
Al ElliottRight.
Leanne ElliottSo, if you said curiosity rather than focus, if you were then saying things like, right, that's what we need to do, that's what we need to do, I'd be like, no, no, no, that's not the purpose of this session. At this point, we're just being curious. Because to try and be too many things all at once in such a short period of time can be unproductive, or it will leave you feeling that you've not explored all the ideas of curiosity, which is a thing. Similarly, if I let you run with curiosity and we get to the end and we've still not got that one thing, That's gonna feel somewhat unproductive as well.
Al ElliottFair enough. Okay.
Leanne ElliottSo that's, that's the STOP exercise, which you don't need to do with somebody else. In fact, you rarely do. You just do it, do it on your own. So stop, take a breath, observe how you're feeling, what you're thinking, what's happening with your body, and how you want to proceed with intention in a way that's gonna be helpful.
Al ElliottYeah, I can see that really helping. For example, if you're about to go into a meeting or if, you know, something bad happens, like a customer cancels or something like that, then maybe just doing that rather than going, oh my God, You just go, wait, why don't you stop, think about it? So, we said stop, take a breath, observe, and decide how to proceed. That's STOP.
Leanne ElliottExactly.
Al ElliottThat's T-O-P.
Leanne ElliottExactly. And it's perfect in situations like that when you can feel yourself starting to emotionally react very quickly. Great one for managers as well. If they get blindsided by an email from a member of staff or a resignation that's taken us by surprise, it's a good one for that as well.
Al ElliottProbably a good one for husbands as well.
Leanne ElliottYes, or indeed wives.
Al ElliottOr indeed wives.
Leanne ElliottLovely. So that's our first exercise, which is based in mindfulness. Now, our second exercise is about reflection. So this exercise was developed by the OG of positive psychology, Martin Seligman. You've heard of Martin.
Al ElliottI've heard of him. Yep.
Leanne ElliottYeah. So him and his team at the University of Pennsylvania completely changed the landscape of psychology in kind of the '90s and early noughties. So what it's basically saying is that people who are reflective in a way that practices gratitude, after just 1 week of doing this, participants were happier and less depressed. And this showed that this level of happiness stayed for 1 month, 3 months, 6 months later. It's one of those positive psychology exercises that is so well known. People talk about gratitude journaling and saying 3 things that you're grateful for, and it can sound a bit fluffy.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottBut actually there's some real, real science behind it.
Al ElliottYeah. When I was bankrupt, I was really into the likes of Chicken Soup for the Soul and Tony Robbins and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, it was, it was kind of difficult to see what you would be grateful for. So I, I did do this and I did feel really stupid and sort of like West Coast American and California about doing it. Um, but I did write down every morning what I was, what I was grateful for and every night what I was grateful for that day. And it really massively helped because When you're sitting there and you're bankrupt, you've got no money and you can't even have a bank account, um, this, that you need that sort of thing to remind you that it's not all a disaster.
Leanne ElliottIt's also a really good way of evaluating all aspects of your life objectively. We tend to focus on the bad thing, right? The thing that's not working out because evolutionarily speaking, that's where our attention is, is drawn to. Yeah, exactly. But actually that, and that tends to be around work as well, doesn't it? The things that are going wrong. So the gratitude Um, practice also just helps us identify other areas of our life where things are really great. So, it might be that work's a bit tough at the minute, but you're completely in love with your person, and how wonderful is that? Or your kids are thriving, or, you know, your dog just won a competition or something. I don't know.
Al ElliottYes, I'm grateful for having dogs that don't win competitions and grateful for having a quiet summer with no children.
Leanne ElliottWell, and that's exactly what we're going to do now, actually. So, I thought we'd do a bit of a, a bit of a seasonal version. So you can do this for, for the moment, for the day before. So 3 great things that have happened today, 3 great things that happened yesterday. We're going to do a seasonal version because we're at this transitional point. So I'll think back over this summer. I want you to bring to mind 3 good things that happened. So they can be significant, they can be small, they can be work, they could be personal. It doesn't matter as long as it's felt meaningful for you. So take a moment now, Al, to identify your 3. good things for this summer. And you do the same, listener. Take the moment now and identify your 3 good things.
Al ElliottSo, if anyone's not listened to maybe about 3 months ago or 2 months ago, then we got kicked out of the country we live in because of the— we had a lawyer who was less than honest and so didn't do the things he was gonna do. So, that was a bit of a disaster because we were devastated because that's what we were spending our summer from. Over summer was going to be in our beautiful house in Mostar in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I know, I'm sorry, it's triggering. However, I'm really grateful that we were friends with a lovely guy called Nikola, um, who's in Bulgaria, um, who had a spare house with a communal pool, um, outside it. And, um, we could, for a very reasonable price, we were allowed, he allowed us to stay for 3 months.
Leanne ElliottAnd I love that. I too am grateful. For Niko, and this is where we need to extend the exercise a little bit. I think people typically think about gratitude practices like, oh, well, these are my 3 things, I'm done, let's move on for the day. No, we need a bit more time thinking about that thing we're grateful for. So Niko, as you say, his kindness, his generosity, why does that matter to you? And what does it reveal about what's important to you, what you value?
Al ElliottAgain, regular listeners will know that we spent, we spent probably the last 7, 8 years just travelling around. Sometimes every week we'd move and I hadn't realized how much I was enjoying the stability of our life when we were in Mostar, um, how we'd been there about 18 months and we planned to be there for 2 years in the same house. And I hadn't really, I hadn't really understood how much that was important to me at this point in my life. Maybe it's, maybe it's, it's because we spent so much time bouncing around. Maybe it's because I'm a bit older now. I was, what, 40? I was 42, 43 when I first started. traveling, maybe 40 actually. Now I'm approaching 50, perhaps I do want to just calm down a little bit. So yeah, that's probably that. And then also, I always— this is gonna sound so cheesy, but it always fills me with joy when someone is a decent person.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.
Al ElliottAnd we, we, uh, we spoke to, for example, one of our previous guests, Megan Furlong-Brown. Um, if you've listened to the episode, you know that I'm always getting her name wrong. But MFD, she was a great person on LinkedIn. Then we interviewed her and we found out she was actually a great person in real life. And that filled me with joy because I'm like, yeah, often the opposite happens. You think someone's cool and then they use you for something and then you're like, oh, oh, but, but yeah. So that's, that's probably why. And it's just under— it's underlined how cool Nico was and how he's like, yeah, yeah, fine.
Leanne ElliottNo worries.
Al ElliottYeah, of course you can come over.
Leanne ElliottYeah. And it, it's those values, isn't it, that are so important to both of us, that kindness, that generosity, that That helping people. And I think for me, I'm also really, I really am so grateful that, I guess when, when you travel around, you can start to have these thoughts that aren't entirely true, where you think you've taken time away from building relationships and you've taken time away from, from the people who are really meaningful to you. And I think for me, coming back and spending time with Nico again made me realise that these relationships continue.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottAnd they can be strengthened again in the future. And yes, that's absolutely what I'm grateful for as well. So, that's the idea. So, you identify another 2 things that you're grateful for. You'd inspect them a little bit more. Why does it matter to you? What does it say about who you are, who you want to be? What does it reveal about what you value? It's not just about happy memories. It's really clues as to what energises you and what you want to carry into autumn. So, it might be that into autumn, we want to continue to invest our energy in people who are kind, and generous and on the same values level as we are, and maybe not waste our time and energy on some people who showed very different values during that period for us.
Al ElliottYes, we will not be naming those, those people. Okay, so that's cool. So the first one was that I think that I'm really grateful that people are cool and cool people are cool. I like that. Second, really quickly then, what I'm really grateful for is just in terms of like the technical stack. of producing a podcast. Obviously we have a podcast studio, beautiful studio. We've got lights, we've got teleprompters, we've got cameras, we've got everything. We obviously, we couldn't take that. So we ended up just taking our microphones and our phones. And we've started, I've now learned that a podcast, particularly audio only, you don't need, don't need 90% of the tech that we've got at home.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.
Al ElliottSo that's really cool. And it also means that then you can go, right, well, we can go and take our microphones and go and do a pod somewhere else. We'll go away for 4 weeks and we'll just take our microphones and Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Leanne ElliottWe might be a bit more flexible in terms of travelling and working rather than, yeah, stacking it all ahead. Absolutely. And my final one is I'm really grateful for Bulgarian wine, or more specifically, the wine, the international varieties of wine that are available to buy in Bulgaria. Yes, yes. I am grateful for Lidl's rosé.
Al ElliottYeah, if you're not from Europe, then there's a supermarket called Lidl, L-I-D-L. It's German. And they just stock the, they just stock the best because they'll stock maybe 40 types of wine rather than 4,000. But of those 40, 35 will be just exceptional. So, yes.
Leanne ElliottAnd what a lovely 3, because I think that really shows how varied they can be. We've got one that is very much kind of values, relationships-based, one that's very much work and practicality-based, and one that's just something that brings us a bit of joy on a Friday afternoon in the sunshine to have a cool glass of rosé. I'm grateful for that. I'm also going to be very grateful my Aperol Spritz I'm gonna have later. We're recording this on a Saturday. It's how dedicated we are, guys.
Al ElliottYou should be so thankful. You really should. Okay, so that was exercise 2, which did it have a name? 3 things.
Leanne Elliott3 good things.
Al ElliottSo TGT.
Leanne ElliottYeah. So at this point you might be thinking, Leanne, that we're 15 minutes in and we've not started planning yet. No, we haven't, because we need to take a minute to ground ourselves in the present. We need to take some time to look back and reflect. And gratefulness does breed this optimism and hope and energy. And hopefully, I do feel a bit, a bit more energised now going into this because I'm like, yeah, there are cool people in the world and we have figured something out about work and I'm going to have a glass of Aperol Spritz in about an hour. You know, I'm ready. I'm ready. Let's do this.
Al ElliottOkay. So talking of doing it, can we just pause for a second and go for a quick break? And then when we come back, what are we doing after the break?
Leanne ElliottFuture self vision. So after the break, we'll be looking ahead.
Al ElliottBrilliant. We'll see you in a second.
Leanne ElliottDid you know that the UK's number 1 management podcast— that's us, by the way— and the UK's number 1 marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioural science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good looking. And you're not gonna say which. Phil, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in threes—
Leanne Elliottthe HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless, seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. Uh, we've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioural science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff, and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.
Leanne ElliottIt is, it's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
Al ElliottIt can.
Leanne ElliottAnd are we all just status-seeking monkeys?
Al ElliottI am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back. Definitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this. So come back. I'll cut that out. Keep that in. Okay, welcome back. Future self vision, I think was what you said, wasn't it?
Leanne ElliottYes. So we're looking at something that stems from research from UCLA psychologist Hal Hirschfield. So, what Hal did is use neuroimaging studies and found that when we think about our future selves, our brains light up as if we're thinking about strangers, which is somewhat problematic because we're not often kind to ourselves in the moment because we won't think about future Leanne. That's nothing connected with me. That's too abstract. So, it's hard to do things like save for retirement or stick to long-term goals. Because it feels like we're doing things for favors. People, we're doing favors for people who don't really matter that much.
Al ElliottOh, that makes sense. So when you think about, for example, I want to be someone who goes to the gym like twice or 3 times a week. I am not someone who goes to the gym 3 or 4 times a week. I go, I don't, I think I've been 3 or 4 times in my entire life. So I wanna be that person, but in my brain, that person is just such a total stranger to me. That I can't either, I can't see the way to get to be that person, or it's very easy for me to say, do you know what? Maybe tomorrow, maybe tomorrow I'll go for a long walk.
Leanne ElliottYeah, exactly. Exactly. What this research went on to find is that when we actually visualise our future selves really vividly, then we can make better long-term decisions. So actually, in one study, people who saw digitally aged photos of themselves allocated 30% more money to retirement savings.
Al ElliottWell, that makes sense. And I think there's, there's something like, um, I think it's Norman Vincent Peale who said, uh, whatever the mind can conceive and believe it can achieve, which is a bit of a cheesy thing to say. But from what I've understood is there's some science that shows that when you imagine yourself doing something, not your future self, but imagine yourself doing something, it's the same brain receptors on an fMRI that light up as if you were actually doing it. Mm-hmm. Is that, is that right? Have I made that up?
Leanne ElliottYeah. No, no, that sounds, sounds right. Yeah.
Al ElliottSo by vividly imagining it, and we're not talking about this whole like, you know, sit and cross-legged in the middle of a field imagining, you know, it's think about, look at footballers. The majority of footballers imagine scoring and it goes through their head so vividly that when it comes to the point where they've got an opportunity to score, they score. Same with racing drivers, with rally drivers. Rally drivers imagine the course. Skiers, they're very famous for just imagining going through the course at the beginning of it. So this isn't some kind of wanky little sort of new age thing. This is actually, it works and professional people use this.
Leanne ElliottThey do. And it can be really practical as well. So what we're gonna do to use this neuroscience is imagine what Al is gonna look like on December 31st, 2025. So heading into New Year's Eve. So—
Al ElliottGuarantee he's gonna be fatter.
Leanne ElliottOh wait, we don't know that. Al might be going to the gym. But basically all you're gonna do is just think about, write it down or think out loud, Al, because it's probably better for the medium of audio. I want you to describe to me what you are proud of. What have you achieved that you're really proud of by the end of December?
Al ElliottSo let's fast forward to December. I think what I'm proud of is getting our secret, top secret project off the ground and at least 3 or 4 people having given us some money. Basically, if we've sold it, sold the consultancy.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm. So how does that feel to have done that?
Al ElliottWell, that feels great. And you know what's interesting? And I know this is a very privileged position. The money doesn't really interest me that much. What interests— what I'd be so proud of is that I have managed to relay the value of our top secret project, which obviously involved my wife doing consultancy around workplace wellbeing. I don't think it takes a genius to work out that that was the case. But That I have managed to convince a stranger of the value that Leanne's going to bring in advance. And so therefore they trusted me enough to give me some money. And I think that, I just wanna be clear that when I say some money, I'm not like going, oh, it's gonna be cheap. It's, it's not gonna be cheap. It's gonna be expensive. But the difference is that if someone gives you some money for a future, uh, for a future event or a future outcome, They trust you enough, and that trust is so difficult to do. It's like there's no real difference between someone giving you £1 and what someone giving you £1 million, because to get someone to go from, I'll have it for free, to, I'll give you a pound for it, there's a huge jump to get someone to trust you. So unpack that and tell me about what happened in my childhood to make me think like that.
Leanne ElliottWell, why is that the most, the thing you're most proud of? Because we're gonna do loads of things over the next few months, right? We're gonna get some really cool guests on. We might have another surge in growth. We might do that other thing that we've been working on, tip-tapping away at. Why is it this secret wellbeing project that you're achieving, that is the thing you'll be most proud of?
Al ElliottI think partly because it's been about 4 years in the making behind the scenes. Um, it's the culmination of everything, you know, And things I've learned. Um, it'll also be me going back to my marketing roots. I used to do a load of marketing. I had a marketing agency and I haven't done marketing for, for years now. I did, of course, I do a little bit on the podcast, but it would be, if we just, if we finished the year and we didn't do anything like that, looking at the opposite, then all we've done is the podcast, which is cool, and it pays us a nice amount of money. Thank you very much, HubSpot. We love that money.
Leanne ElliottLove HubSpot.
Al ElliottLove HubSpot. But that would be the same. We'd just achieve the same thing we did the year before. Whereas this is something different. This is, we have, do you know what it is? I think we've taken something, or I will have taken something that doesn't exist and I will make it exist.
Leanne ElliottThat's— Entrepreneur 101, my friend.
Al ElliottThat's what it's gonna be. And that genuinely, I felt myself feeling a bit differently when I said that. I'll bring something into the world that A, the world needs, or I believe they will. Um, and B, I've brought it in, it didn't exist, and it does exist now.
Leanne ElliottBrilliant. So what we've done there, what you've done there, Al, is by examining it a bit more, and that's all coaching is, right? Coaching questions like that, which is essentially why is, is the basis of any coaching question, is you've taken it from, oh, we're gonna sell this product and people are gonna give us money for it, to I'm gonna create something that's not existed before that people need, that's gonna make an impact. I'm gonna feel really proud of that because that's reflective of who I am as a professional and what gets me excited. That is an excellent, excellent goal, Al. An excellent thing for future Al to be proud of.
Al ElliottCan I just thank you, listener, for going along with my sort of 3 or 4 minutes of rambling? I think in a normal situation, you probably would go away for 5 minutes, think about it, and write it down. So that's about it. In this medium, that'd be quite dull to have dead air. So.
Leanne ElliottYou would, but I think you'd probably go through a similar a similar conversational process, either with your— with yourself on paper. It might be that first thing you thought of that you're proud of. You'd think, actually, that isn't the thing I'm going to be most proud of. It's going to be something else. But it's getting to that because that was your objective, that one thing. If this was more of a curiosity-based exercise, it might be more about what's not necessarily the thing you're most proud of, but what's the thing that's the coolest thing that you've discovered or the best idea that you've You've had, or, you know, it's switching it slightly to meet the objective that we're after. But you wanted that one thing, Al. So is that your one thing?
Al ElliottYeah, that's my one thing.
Leanne ElliottBrilliant. So let's go on to our next exercise, which is making it happen.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottDo you see the process here? Do you see how we're building? We're compounding it, Al.
Al ElliottI like it. I like it. I feel like I'm in a TED Talk.
Leanne ElliottSo making it happen. I think you're gonna like the name of this exercise, Al.
Al ElliottUh, is it cheese?
Leanne ElliottNope. It's whoop.
Al ElliottSay it again.
Leanne ElliottWOOP.
Al ElliottI like it.
Leanne ElliottYeah. So this is about making it practical with a method. It's a goal-setting method called WOOP, W-O-O-P, developed by another wonderful psychologist, Gabriele Oettingen, I think is how you say it. Oettingen, NYU, which is very cool. Do you know what? That's the place I think I wish I'd like, in an alternative life, I would've gone to NYU.
Al ElliottWould you? What's that, New York?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottOh, you wouldn't last a month in New York.
Leanne ElliottNo, that version of Leanne couldn't though. That version of Leanne would've been like—
Al ElliottNot the country bumpkin from Wales.
Leanne ElliottExactly.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottAnyway, so Gabriel's research basically shows us that visualising success isn't enough. It's a good start. So we visualised it and that's good. But if we didn't then change it into something more practical, it could actually decrease our motivation because our brain basically thinks that You've already achieved it.
Al ElliottWell, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair enough.
Leanne ElliottYeah. I think therefore it's done.
Al ElliottI love that. I love that.
Leanne ElliottYeah. So, I mean, this won't be a surprise to anybody who's, who's, yeah, is trained in coaching or has undertaken some coaching or basically read any book about goals. Yeah. Goals are really the thing that, that make it happen, having those specific plans and specifically with With this one as well, most really effective goal setting is identifying the obstacles as well. So that's what we're gonna do, Al. So WOOP stands for wish, outcome, obstacle, plan.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottOkay. So first we need the wish, that one important thing that you want to achieve this autumn. We know what that is, don't we?
Al ElliottYeah. We wanna get, we wanna get this secret top secret project, RX-7, RX-7. We wanna get that into the world.
Leanne ElliottIs it challenging but achievable?
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottOkay, lovely. That's our wish then. Outcome.
Al ElliottIs that it? So basically your wish has to be challenging but achievable.
Leanne ElliottChallenging but achievable.
Al ElliottSo if I was like, right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna compete in the Tour de France next year, that is challenging but not achievable for me who have literally forgotten to ride, how to ride a bike.
Leanne ElliottYeah, yeah, maybe.
Al ElliottBut if I said I wanted to build a website for RX7, Then that's achievable, but not really challenging.
Leanne ElliottNot for you. Not for you. Well, it depends on the person. It'd be very challenging for me. I wouldn't know where to start. But yes, exactly. Challenging, but achievable. So that's our wish. Next is outcome. So I want you to imagine the best result if you achieve this wish. What will be different?
Al ElliottUh, what will be different? What do you mean by what will be different?
Leanne ElliottWhat will be different about your work life once it's achieved?
Al ElliottSo this is the outcome, is it?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottYeah. Okay. What'll be different? What's going to be the biggest difference? Biggest outcome is probably that there will be something in the hands of other people that they didn't have before that's genuinely useful. So I'm just talking out loud here. Um, that's a lovely one. Yeah, that's probably, and then the personal outcome for me is that once we've sold 10 of these, then I know myself and I'm probably going to lose interest in it, but I'll have created all of the stuff required for someone else to step in and run that process of getting more clients for you to service. Um, and yeah, that's probably— talk me through, are those good answers to that?
Leanne ElliottYeah, really good answers. Because again, you're, you're kind of— it's going back to that, the biggest thing about that wish was that you've brought something into existence that didn't exist previously. So even by extending that to thinking, I know I'm going to get bored because once it exists, I'm bored. But I am also gonna have, have built in all the wraparound that somebody else can pick that up and, and run with it. So yeah, it's gonna be different in that it exists. It's a thing, and it's a thing that somebody else can lead. And in terms of how that's gonna make you feel, you've brought something into existence. You've given it beautiful structure so somebody else can, can make something wonderful of it, and you get to move on to the next exciting thing.
Al ElliottCool. Okay. So that's, so we've done what so far? What are?
Leanne ElliottWhat?
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottUm, so the next O is obstacle. So what is the biggest internal barrier? So what is it within you, something perhaps that could get in the way?
Al ElliottSo we're not saying your biggest obstacle is that you don't know how to do Google Ads, for example. That's not where the obstacle comes from. The obstacle will come from Me going, oh, I'll do it next week. Oh, I'll do it next week. And then Christmas comes around and I've not done it.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.
Al ElliottI suppose, do you know what, being real honest, I think my biggest obstacle is that I would start planning this out and then I would go down so many rabbit holes and go, oh, it'd be cool if it did this and it'd be cool if it did that and cool if it did the other thing and start building it so that by the time the 1st of December comes, I've actually built all the bits and pieces that fit with it, but I've still not spoken to a single person.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.
Al ElliottUm, that's the problem. I mean, there are some, there's 2 different types of business owners. I think there's the people who like love going out there and selling something that doesn't exist. And I wish I was those, but I'm, I'm not really, I don't think. And I'm, and then there's the other people who will sit in a room and build it and then go and sell it. And both of those people, they've got pros and cons. You want to be somewhere in between where you build the minimum viable product. They call it MVP, minimum viable product. Go out there and gauge the interest on it. And then if there is interest, then sell it and build the rest of it, I think. So unpack that.
Leanne ElliottIf you're being honest with yourself, what's driving this pattern of thinking that results in this behavior to want to add stuff to it and explore more and keep the curiosity going rather than the focus? Because if we wanted to be Devil's avocado. One could say that that is just a very nice way of thinking about procrastination. I'm not procrastinating. I'm staying curious. I say it's procrastinating. So, what is it that drives that? Is it a fear of talking to people? Is it habit of just, that's how you work? There isn't a time pressure to it. What's driving that?
Al ElliottIt's probably one of two things. It's probably the first one is that I just want it to be good. So if someone says no to it, I want them to say no to something which I think is good. So I go, okay, it's not for you. That's fine. Um, and there's probably a little bit of insecurity there as well. When you show something to the world and it's like, it's like half baked, people will be like, well, that's a bit rubbish, isn't it? Does it do that? No, it doesn't yet. No, no. Oh, well, it's not very good, is it?
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.
Al ElliottSo there's that. The other part of me, which is just, you've just thought of, is Potentially, I know that once I've got it done, or once I'm out there selling it, the countdown begins to me losing interest in it. That's probably more likely.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.
Al ElliottThat I know that if I start having 10 phone calls a week and I'm converting 2 to 3 of them and selling it, then I've probably got 9 weeks left and then I'm going to lose interest.
Leanne ElliottWe've identified though, in your perfect outcome, that that's built in. You've given yourself permission to lose interest in it.
Al ElliottI have, yeah. Oh, interesting. Interesting. Yes, you're right. I've given myself, I've already built in the fact that we'll go and bring someone else in to manage this. Oh, okay. So actually, that is, if we spin that on its, put it on its head, spin it, you're saying that the quicker I get to the point of losing interest, the quicker I can go off and do other cool things because I've got someone else in. To do it, to manage it.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottHmm. Might be something in this coaching stuff, you know, Leanne.
Leanne ElliottMaybe. So let's go back again to that. Now we've had that, that reflection. So that, that pattern of thinking, which I'm going to call procrastination.
Al ElliottFine.
Leanne ElliottUnless, as you said, the fear of it not being good. So the only way I see this, um, Continued or prolonged period of development, should we say, rather than— so it doesn't become procrastination. The only way you can do that is knowing how it's good. So how will you know this is good or good enough for an MVP?
Al ElliottWell, you need to go out there and show people it and see what they say.
Leanne ElliottRight. So you can't judge yourself if it's good enough?
Al ElliottNo. And this is the irony, is that now it sounds like grown-up Al has now joined the conversation. And he's now looking back over at stupid Al who's sitting over there and going, what the hell were you talking about a few minutes ago? Because you're right, you should be able to go out there. You should be able to sell the dream. And we go, okay, this is what we're building. This is what we've got so far. Are you in? If you're interested, just give us 100 quid to show us that you're definitely interested and then help us build out the rest of it.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.
Al ElliottAnd if you go out there and you collect 100 quid, neither here nor there. So you go out there and collect 10 people. You're not gonna change the world with that money, but you will have 10 people who, who have Who have given you that more than £1, more than zero to say they're interested. So yes, that's interesting. So actually, in theory, when we get back home in about, um, in about a week's time, I could in theory just start emailing or cold calling people.
Leanne ElliottOoh.
Al ElliottUm, yeah, maybe, maybe future Al didn't hear that. It is a lot more fun. To be fair, I'm not frightened of cold calling. I'm not frightened of emailing. I'm not frightened of talking to people. But I don't think anybody, even the Harvey Specters of the world or the greatest salespeople in the world, I'm not sure they love cold calling and cold emailing.
Leanne ElliottNo, no. Well, it's one of those things. We love it when you do it and you get a good outcome because it makes the uncomfortable thing worth it. But if you don't, then it's just soul destroying. And I say that having worked in outreach sales myself a long time ago. Okay, interesting. This is really, really good, Al. Excellent, excellent reflection here. So, in terms of this obstacle, it started that, oh, well, it will be me potentially overthinking about it, want to spend a bit more time on development, wanting to make sure it's really good, afraid that the sooner I get it there, I'm going to lose interest. Well, what we've actually said is from our outcome, you've already given yourself permission to lose interest. That's baked into achieving the outcome. And in terms of, is it good enough, you've now said on further reflection that Actually, that's part of it. You need to take it when it's not quite good enough. You need to be able to sell the dream and get feedback from the market, from potential customers. So, is it fair then that the main obstacle is gonna be procrastination?
Al ElliottYeah. Well, sadly, yes.
Leanne ElliottOkay. So, let's move on to the P. Let's finish the WOOP.
Al ElliottYep.
Leanne ElliottOkay. So, plan an if-then statement for me. So, if you face the obstacle, so if you face procrastination, Then I will what? What's a specific action you can take to address that obstacle?
Al ElliottBack when I did telesales, I used to write down the number of direct nos I'd got. So I'd have a piece of paper and I'd, I'd think in my head, I'm making 50, 60, 70 cold calls a day and therefore, and I'm selling 3. So therefore I'm getting 47 people saying no to me. But actually what happened was I found that the majority of people just said, oh mate, I'm in the middle of something, or no, they're not around, or didn't answer or whatever. So really I was getting like 5 nos and 3 yeses. And I was like, oh, oh, so I'm like a, you know, I'm on like a 30%, um, or slightly more, 38%, uh, uh, success rate here. And that helped me to reframe. So I'm saying this out loud because I'm trying to think, what is it? So if I find myself opening my laptop and going, right, I'm just gonna very quickly build this panel into the software, that's procrastination. So I should be doing something. What other— tell me, you know me better than most people in the world. What would be my signs of procrastination?
Leanne ElliottI think you just identified one there, isn't it? That open that laptop. And if, if you are, if the first thing you are gonna do isn't something that's gonna contribute to the outcome, then it's procrastination. It might be that you have to build that panel because you had a conversation with somebody the day before. That said, or with 5 people that said that would be the main thing they'd wanna see. So, you'd have to do that. So, I guess it's identifying in that moment, the minute you're putting off any task that is driving you towards that outcome, is one, identifying it as procrastination. That's the first thing, and catching yourself in the moment, isn't it? Yeah. Reflecting on your WOOP will also help with that in terms of what's the wish, what's the outcome, What's the obstacle? Am I in this moment indulging too much in the obstacle? What do you think are the main reasons that you do procrastinate?
Al ElliottI think one of the reasons that a lot of people procrastinate is, especially if you have ownership of an idea and you go off and you say to people in the world, in, in, in real life, here's my idea. What do you think of my idea? And they go, it's a rubbish idea. Then you go, well, that was my idea. And you get it kind of like they're talking there. It feels like they're going, well, that's rubbish. And therefore, by extension, you're rubbish. So I think there's a lot of that. So really what needs to happen, I think, is to take— and I've— do you know what's funny is that— hi, Jeremy. What's funny is that with a lot of people I've been speaking to, I've coached through this thing. I've gone, look, there are 4 stages. And the first one is you're a scientist and you just got an experiment and you're going, okay, so this is what I think might work. Let's go and see if it'll work.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottAnd if it, and you go, oh, that was interesting. It didn't work. So what do we need to tweak to get that to work? I think that's what I need to do. I think I need to take the idea and treat it as a hypothesis that needs testing.
Leanne ElliottSo if I may then, what you're saying is—
Al ElliottYeah, please interrupt me because I'm going around in circles here.
Leanne ElliottIf I face procrastination, that I will remember I'm a scientist.
Al ElliottOh yes. Yes. That's probably it, isn't it? Yeah. So if I face procrastination, it's probably because I don't want someone to say it's a bad idea. And then I have to remind myself, It's not my idea, it's an idea.
Leanne ElliottMm, nice. Lovely.
Al ElliottMy course will be coming out at Christmas, £999, early bird access.
Leanne ElliottExactly that though. And you know what, write that down afterwards. Once we finish, just write down your whoop and write that statement down. So, if I face procrastination, then I will remember I'm a scientist or Or what was the exact thing you said again?
Al ElliottNo, I think that was it. Remember, you're a scientist and you're testing a hypothesis.
Leanne ElliottAn idea, not the idea. So it's not your idea, it's an idea. And it's actually my idea, if that helps at all.
Al ElliottIt is your idea.
Leanne ElliottAnd also, the science is sound. So if people don't want it, then they're just wrong. So that's another one. If I face procrastination, I'll go to Leanne for a pep talk.
Al ElliottYes, that's what I'll do.
Leanne ElliottOh no, lovely. So recap me on your Whoop, Al. What's your wish?
Al ElliottSo wish is to have a number of people who've made some kind of financial commitment to the— have I got this right? I've forgotten already.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottNo, yeah. Is that right? Yeah. Make a financial commitment to the RX7 system or roadmap or blueprint that we're putting together. O was obstacle.
Leanne ElliottOutcome.
Al ElliottOutcome. How is that different to the wish?
Leanne ElliottSo the best result. So the outcome is, if you remember, this is a key one for you. It exists in the world and I've done all the wraparound, so I've given myself permission to lose interest in it.
Al ElliottOh, okay. Right. Yes. So that's the outcome is that it's, it's ready. It's generating revenue, enough revenue to me to go and find someone else and put them in that role.
Leanne ElliottAnd the outcome is the best possible version of the wish coming true.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottGot it. What's your obstacle?
Al ElliottProcrastination.
Leanne ElliottAnd what's your plan?
Al ElliottUh, whenever I, whenever I find myself procrastinating, saying to myself, It's just a hypothesis at this stage. And as long as I keep hypothesizing, then I will come up with something. Or at Christmas, if I've come up with 10 hypotheses, spoken to 200 people and nobody wants it, well, that's actually probably quite a good thing to find out rather than spending 3 months building something when no one wanted it in the first place.
Leanne ElliottYeah. And it might be that after 4 weeks of work, you need to sit down in October and create another WOOP.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottOn what you've based, um, and what, yeah, what you plan to do. And do write it out. If you are listening and thinking, I think I've got a WOOP, you do have a WOOP. You probably have more than one WOOP, um, but do write it out. It does show that, um, it's actually more effective when you physically, physically do that energy transference between the brain and, and yeah, it's very much a thing. Interesting, you know, you were talking before about how, um, it's hard to envisage your future self. You can actually use that to your advantage. So, if you journal, If you journal in the third person, particularly if you're experiencing something quite heavy emotionally, you might say something like, Leanne had a really tough day today. She did 10 sales calls and everyone said no. It makes her feel like she's not worthy or the idea is useless or that she was wrong. Talking about yourself in the third person distances yourself even more from those emotions, more so than just regular journaling does. Because again, the neuroimaging shows that the energy transference goes from our amygdala, our kind of emotional brain to our prefrontal cortex, our thinking brain. So yeah, there you go. We can use some of these things to our advantage. So how are you feeling, Al? You've got your Whoop.
Al ElliottYeah, I think so. I think because I'm quite visual, visual or whatever the word is, then I would want to see it written down, I think. So I think what we've said, this is a bit of a contrived situation because we would normally write things down, wouldn't we? Yes. So I think once I'd see it written down, I'm like, okay. But the one thing that's come out of this, because this is interesting, I knew a little bit about what you were gonna do. I deliberately didn't look too much at your notes. Um, and I thought we were gonna end up with a plan to sell the RX-7, to develop and sell the RX-7 by Christmas. And what we've actually ended up with is simply go out there, ask people if they want it, and if they, and if enough people don't, change what I'm asking them.
Leanne ElliottYeah, yeah, absolutely. I think it's almost kind of, kind of one, step further even in that we've gone through all the psychological processes we need to accept the transition, feel like we've got the energy to move forward, identify what that obstacle is gonna be in ourselves. Not that the market doesn't want it or, or, you know, the advertising campaign will fail. It's actually what's within me that's gonna potentially sabotage this. So now when you go and write your plan, The plan will, the plan will plan. You'll be able to do that. And you can do loads of different frameworks to, to help you actually do that step by step. This is really more about the, the planning for your psychological self to make this happen.
Al ElliottInteresting. Something I never ever would've thought of doing. And if you said to me, do you wanna do this? I'd be like, no thanks. No, I do, I do not. But it's been very worthwhile.
Leanne ElliottDo you know what? I think what's my favourite thing about coaching is when you get somebody who's a bit sceptical. And then it starts to, starts to be like, oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I did. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so let's move on to our final exercise, Al, which is energy intention. So our closing reflection. Okay. The destination is important, Al. We know this, but what's more important?
Al ElliottThe journey.
Leanne ElliottExactly. Enjoying the journey.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottSo let's think about the end of September, and this is where we can start to get a bit more practical as well. What's the one thing you could have done by the end of September that you're gonna feel freaking great about?
Al ElliottI think it's gotta be that I've gotta at least have one phone call.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.
Al ElliottI think that's it. Because once you have one, then you feel, you know, oh yeah, I could do some more of these. And yeah, I wanna do some more of these. So I think it's probably gotta have one phone call. And to have one phone call, I probably need to probably spend a week or so thinking about exactly what it is that we're gonna deliver. Not like over, over— I know you're looking at me with wide eyes, not procrastinating, but just so that someone, so I don't go, Do you want to do this? They go, yeah, how would you do it? I go, oh no. Oh. So I think we need to have a little bit of a sort of a plan. Um, but no, that's it really. And I kind of feel a little bit excited. I'm like, yeah, let's, uh, let's go and talk to some people. By the way, if you're listening and you wanna be some of my, one of my first people, check the show notes. My email's in there.
Leanne ElliottBrilliant. So it's kind of saying that we'd, we would've had the first, first customer call. Yeah. By the end of September. What I like is you didn't even say that you'd converted it.
Al ElliottNo, that's a good point.
Leanne ElliottWhy, why was that not important?
Al ElliottBecause, like you said before, the obstacle was that I wasn't going to book the calls. The obstacle isn't that they'd say no.
Leanne ElliottAnd what's your outcome?
Al ElliottOutcome is to have, have something in place that I can hand off to someone else, which is, is that what I said? Yeah.
Leanne ElliottSo your outcome was having, having basically customers paying money for this product and having a process around it, you can hand it off. So the outcome is the conversion.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne ElliottSo it's not reasonable to accept that outcome by the end of September.
Al ElliottI know, it's a good point. Yes, good point. Sorry, I was thinking. Yes, good point. So, so normally what I would do is go, right, okay, what do they call them? BHAGs, big hairy audacious goals. I'd be like, okay, so I want to have 10 customers by the end of September. What you're saying to me, Lee, is No, that's not your end of September goal. That's probably your beginning of December goal, but that's not your end of September goal. Your end of September goal is to have spoken to at least one person about this.
Leanne ElliottYou said that to me. I didn't say that to you.
Al ElliottAh.
Leanne ElliottYou said to me, I said, what can you do by the end of September? You said, I've spoken to at least one person.
Al ElliottOkay.
Leanne ElliottThat was you telling me that. But it's all I wanted to do is kind of really reinforce that It wasn't the conversion, it wasn't getting that sale. That's further down the line. So remember that for you, it's getting that, that first conversation done. And as you said, some steps before that to be able to facilitate those conversations, which will probably mean you and me sitting down, going through exactly what it is that, that we're doing, why it's important, why people need it, why it's so transformative, et cetera, et cetera. Um, yeah. So basically in the next 4 weeks, we need to sit down. Have that conversation, figure out exactly what it is that we're offering, and you need to speak to at least one person about it.
Al ElliottOkay. Okay.
Leanne ElliottThat feel achievable by September?
Al ElliottAbsolutely.
Leanne ElliottAnd how do you reckon you're gonna feel after you've had that phone call?
Al ElliottGood, I think. I love talking to people on the phone about new ideas.
Leanne ElliottEnergised?
Al ElliottYeah, energised. Yeah.
Leanne ElliottYeah. Lovely. So then feeling energised, feeling like we've achieved something, how do you then think that's gonna Um, influence your mindset going into October, knowing that you still have 3 months until you have to achieve your perfect outcome.
Al ElliottYeah, it's, I think that's it. Once you make, it's like everything, isn't it? If you, if you can get yourself to the gym, then the majority, then the likelihood is you'll spend an hour doing something, um, and not just eating snacks in the foyer like I did once. Um, so if you can get yourself to the gym, so if you can get literally that, that, that meeting booked. Well, you're, you're going to do something cool in that meeting and then you want to book another one and another one. So yes.
Leanne ElliottSo you want to feel energized by the end of September. And the way you're going to get energized is having that conversation with a customer. And the way you're going to have a conversation with that customer is to just conversations to refine the product in its fine print. We've got the foundations.
Al ElliottYes, exactly.
Leanne ElliottSo there's only actually 3 actions that need to be taken between now and September to make a massive step forward. Towards your, your Whoop by the end of the year. So there you go. There you go. And it is, it's kind of that once you can kind of name how you want to feel, then you can shape your decisions and your choices and your actions to match that intention. So again, when you're maybe procrastinating, you can, you can use that as a statement as well as that, you know, I'm, I'm feeling like I'm procrastinating. I want to feel energised. Um, yeah, it's all, it all ties together, Al. How are we feeling?
Al ElliottGood. Good. Yes, that was good. It was kind of weird doing it with your wife, and it was kind of even weirder doing it in public.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottUm, so, uh, quite vulnerable, isn't it?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottYeah. So, uh, please don't, please don't be nasty to me on LinkedIn. Um, although I never go on, so I won't see you being nasty. Uh, if you want to be, do something like this with Leanne, which I think you should, because if you listen this far, you're obviously interested in it, then, um, get in touch because, um, I'm sure you can make that happen for some people.
Leanne ElliottI'd be very, yeah, very, very happy to. And you can do this yourself as well. As I said, I frame this as self-coaching sessions. So, of course, it's ideal to do it with a trained coach. It's also very effective to do it with somebody else, whether it be a friend or a business partner or a colleague, and you have that kind of mutual session together. It's something you can do by yourself as well. So, to run through them again, ground yourself and stop, reflect on the 3 good things, connect with your future self, make a concrete plan using ROOP.
Al ElliottRight.
Leanne ElliottAnd set an energy intention for the weeks ahead. And they're not just one-time things. As we said, it might be your WOOP will need to be revised at the end of September. STOP can be a daily habit that you have. 3 good things is perfect in terms of your journaling. Um, and your future self is also a really good one if you are finding yourself procrastinating from time to time. Um, so there you go, Al, you've got your WOOP.
Al ElliottSo thanks again for listening. We're back on Thursday with another amazing interview. Uh, we're also back home in Mostow. So, um, uh, we, you'll, you'll probably notice that things will be a little bit better quality, audio quality. On our last couple of interviews, unfortunately, I've had to use AirPods and, uh, that wasn't, it just didn't cut it. So we will see you next week. And if you've enjoyed this, then go back, maybe listen to a few more of the summer ones from about June onwards, because they're all a bit different, aren't they?
Leanne ElliottThey are. They are. And let us know what your ROOP is. That would be awesome. Get in touch on LinkedIn. Tell us your ROOP. Um, and we will whoop for you.
Al ElliottHashtag, what's your whoop? That's our new tag, right? We'll see you next week.
Leanne ElliottBye.
Al ElliottBye-bye.