Episode 257 · 11 December 2025 · 49:24
"Get Your Shit Together": Rob Kalwarowsky on How to Capitalise on 2025's Chaos (Before It's Too Late)
"Get Your Shit Together": Rob Kalwarowsky on How to Capitalise on 2025's Chaos (Before It's Too Late)
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Introduction: Rob Kalwarowsky and the Hawaiian beach moment
Welcome to Truth, Lies & Work: Episode overview and prize draw
Defining chaos: uncertainty and the brain's stress response
interview#chaos#uncertainty#stress
The internal battle: competing parts within leaders
Overcoming status quo bias and re-evaluating goals
AI disruption: friction, nonsense, and data privacy
interview#ai#disruption#data-privacy
What leaders fear most: decision points and 180-degree decisions
interview#leadership#fear#decision-making
Losing ourselves in chaos and the leaders who will succeed
interview#chaos#identity#leadership
Chaos as a source of creativity and finding inner clarity
interview#creativity#chaos#clarity
What this means for teams, engagement, and the irony of technology
interview#teams#engagement#technology
Loneliness, connection, and community
interview#loneliness#connection#community
Advice for business owners and the non-negotiable skill: getting your shit together
When Rob didn't have his shit together: his personal breakdown
The special giveaway for listeners and what 2026 holds
interview#giveaway#2026#opportunity
Top 3 takeaways and how to enter the draw
interview#takeaways#giveaway#podcast
Show notes
"Get Your Shit Together": Rob Kalwarowsky on How to Capitalise on 2025's Chaos (Before It's Too Late)
Episode 257 — Leanne is joined by returning guest Rob Kalwarowsky, Executive Coach, Author, and Speaker, to unpack his book Capitalizing on Chaos. Rob argues that the world is experiencing an unprecedented level of chaos — 87% higher than the peak of the pandemic.
This episode explores why our brains struggle with uncertainty, how to overcome the status quo bias, and the single most critical skill every leader needs to not just survive, but revolutionise their business in 2026 and beyond.
🧠 What We Cover: Master Your Inner System
1. Defining Chaos For the brain, chaos is simply uncertainty. This triggers the stress responses (fight, flight, freeze, and fawn), which shut down our executive functioning, making it impossible to be a good, innovative leader.
2. The Internal Battle Chaos is as much about our internal state as external events. Rob discusses the competing parts within leaders (e.g., start looking for a new job vs. stay motivated to innovate), and how to bring both parts to the table to find clarity.
3. Overcoming the Status Quo Bias We stick to the status quo because our brain can predict a certain outcome, even if it's a terrible one. Rob shares his "Find Your Reason" tool to leverage the goals and future feelings of success against the pain and suffering of staying stuck.
4. The AI Disruption AI is creating its own friction and non-sense within businesses (e.g., two people using AI to email each other back and forth). Leaders must create clear guidance on where AI adds value and where it poses risks, particularly around data privacy.
5. The Non-Negotiable Skill The single most crucial skill for capitalizing on chaos is the leader having their own "shit together". This rock-solid inner confidence prevents them from transmitting fear and disruption to their teams.
6. The Power of Clarity When leaders find inner clarity and confidence, they can double or triple their workforce without hiring a single person because they can finally care about, develop, and engage their team.
🎁 Exclusive Giveaway & Practical Resources
Rob is offering a generous giveaway to help you capitalize on chaos and set up your 2026 goals!
- Grand Prize (1 Winner): A copy of Capitalizing on Chaos + a six-week coaching engagement with Rob (a high-value prize!).
- Second Prize (10 Winners): A signed copy of Capitalizing on Chaos + one personal coaching session.
- Everyone Wins: You'll receive the Find Your Reason tool just for entering.
To enter (must be within two weeks of the episode release date: 11th December 2025): Go to robkalwarowsky.com/reason
Top 3 Takeaways
- You cannot lead others until you've led yourself. The non-negotiable skill for leaders in chaos is having your own shit together — that rock-solid inner confidence stops you from transmitting fear and disruption to your team.
- This opportunity is real, but it has an expiration date. While everyone else is paralysed by uncertainty, the leaders who act now will be the ones who capitalise. The window won't stay open forever.
- Your brain is lying to you about the status quo. It will literally tell you to stay miserable because the outcome is predictable. The "Find Your Reason" tool helps you leverage future success against the pain of staying stuck.
Connect with Rob Kalwarowsky
- Book: Capitalizing on Chaos
- LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robkalwarowsky
- Website: robkalwarowsky.com
Connect With Us
Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
Expand full transcript
Rob KalwarowskySo I'm Rob Kalvarovsky. I'm an executive coach, author, and speaker. I'm most famous for my book, Capitalizing on Chaos. One of the most pivotal moments in my life actually was the beginning of 2020. And my wife and I, we traveled to Hawaii for her best friend's wedding. And at the time I was depressed, suicidal, I was having panic attacks. There were just the inner chaos was, was crazy, but everything in my life looked great. Like I was making mid-six figures. I had a stable, successful engineering career and it didn't matter. We were walking down this beach and people were surfing. We came across this Volkswagen bus and at the back of the bus, there was a box of fruit and a cardboard sign that said, leave a dollar and like take a fruit. And in that moment, it hit me was the people who were living in that van. They were the ones who were out surfing and they were free to live their lives one wave at a time. Part of me said, hey, Rob, I would love to do this. And then I had the inner critical voice say, I will never let you do this. And that was the moment where I realized that if I don't change, I will always be controlled by fear. And so this is the one most critical time for you to learn how to capitalize on chaos because you will set yourself apart from your competitors. And if you don't, you'll miss out.
Leanne ElliottThat was Rob Kalvarowski, a successful engineer making mid-six figures, standing on a Hawaiian beach, looking at a beat-up Volkswagen van with a cardboard sign selling fruit for a dollar. And he had a terrifying realization. The people living in that van were far freer than he would ever be.
Al ElliottRob's story isn't about quitting your job to live in a van, although he did end up moving from Northern Canada to Costa Rica. It's about something more fundamental. The chaos isn't just happening to you. The chaos is in you. And until you deal with that internal battle, no amount of external success is going to fix it.
Leanne ElliottToday, we're joined by Rob Kalvarovsky, executive coach, TEDx speaker, and author of Capitalising on Chaos. And here's what Rob discovered through his own breakdown and breakthrough. When you're stuck in stress, your brain literally shuts down your executive functioning. You lose decision-making, logic, emotional capability. You're left with just 4 stress responses: fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. And none of those make you a good leader.
Al ElliottAnd his message for leaders right now is brutally simple. If you don't have your shit together, your team won't either. These are Rob's own words, by the way. And that's not an opinion, that's neuroscience.
Leanne ElliottHello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a chartered occupational psychologist.
Al ElliottMy name is Al. I'm a business owner.
Leanne ElliottAnd we are here to help you simplify the science of work.
Al ElliottToday we're asking, what if 2025's chaos isn't something we need to survive? What if it's the biggest opportunity you're ever going to see in your career or your business? While everyone else is paralyzed by uncertainty, they're stressed about tariffs and elections and economic forecasts. This is your moment to capitalize. But here's the catch. You can't seize it if you're stuck in your own internal chaos. You can either be a victim to the chaos like the majority will be, or you can capitalise on it.
Leanne ElliottThis episode comes with a huge opportunity, a prize draw, 6 weeks of free coaching to get you ready to control the chaos and seize the opportunities. Our expert guest, Rob Kalbarowski, is giving away 6 weeks of coaching plus his book to one lucky listener, and 10 more will get the book plus one session with him. Stay tuned to find out how to enter.
Al ElliottAfter this quick break, we'll join Leanne as she interviews Rob and discover what it really means to capitalise on chaos. Starting with the chaos inside your own head. See you in a second. The dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all. Every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Al ElliottNice. Check out HubSpot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
Rob KalwarowskySo I'm Rob Kalvarowski. I'm an executive coach, author, and speaker. I'm most famous for my book, Capitalizing on Chaos, which is the crucial time right now and one of the most critical times in history, at least since we've been alive, Leanne, for leaders to capitalize on this moment. Because as everyone who's reading headlines, articles, and news right now, almost every title says chaos. And so if you're a leader and you're listening to this, if you are stuck in stress and frustration and with the lack of clarity, this is the one most critical time for you to learn how to capitalize on chaos because you will set yourself apart from your competitors. And if you don't, you'll miss out.
Leanne ElliottWe're all experiencing chaos, but I'm interested to know, how do you define it?
Rob KalwarowskyChaos for me is uncertainty. And so, as, as you know, Leanne, as a psychologist, our brains are designed to keep us safe and alive. And that's why we like habits. We like things we've done before. We like patterns. We like things that our brain can predict. And I do that with the quotes because we can't actually predict what's going to happen, but we can somewhat predict that we're going to end this action or this behavior with a good result. Right? And so even I was at a conference last week and I was like, this is the first time you've sat in this room. And yet if you come back later in the day or tomorrow, you're going to pick the same chair. Right? And our brains love that. And that's, and when we have that habit, it keeps us feeling good and safe and secure. When we're in uncertainty or chaos, we cannot predict the outcome. And that's what puts us into that stress response. Also, folks call it like the fight or flight response, but it puts us into that space of our brain literally shuts down our executive functioning. And so we lose out on decision-making, on logic, on emotional capability, and we're left with The 4 stress responses, fight, flight, freeze, and fawn, fawn being a version of people pleasing. But those 4 responses do not allow us to be good leaders. They do not allow us to make innovative and smart decisions based on what's going on in the world. And so if we are stuck in those, we're not going to win.
Leanne ElliottSo you talk so much in your book about how Chaos is as much, or dealing with chaos is as much the mental state as it is what is happening externally. How do we approach that in a way that feels manageable?
Rob KalwarowskyThe first step for folks is to just take a deep breath and just say to yourself, I'm human. And just acknowledging that, and we're all feeling it. We're feeling the stress. We're feeling The frustration where, you know, I'm traveling to the United States in a month and who knows if my flights will work, right? Like, we're all dealing with that, and it's totally normal, and you feel like everybody else. And so even just acknowledging how you feel is going to help you take a step forward. The other part of it, Leanne, is what you've been mentioning about The internal chaos. And what I've been working on with leaders consistently, especially in the last 2 months, has been the competing parts of us that are in an internal battle. So even this morning, I was talking to a leader and it looks like his company may not be continuing to receive the funding that they were thinking they were going to. And so basically their board has told them only to give goals for Q1. And so the writing may be on the wall there if we've gone from annual planning or even beyond that because they're manufacturing, they're building facilities and all these things to, okay, the next basically 3 months.
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Right?
Rob KalwarowskyNow he's competing with the parts of him, one going, hey, you should start looking for another job and hammer your outreach and applications and talking to people and doing that, with the other part that goes, you joined this company for the opportunity to implement AI, to implement robotics, to implement cutting-edge technology. And you should go in and be motivated to do that. And so even just those 2 single parts of us, or being that inner chaos and that decision, it's exhausting. And it's really like what I work on with folks is how do we get both of those parts to the table with us? And really just come to an agreement on how we're going to go forward. And that's, that's the deeper work, but it all starts with just noticing and just letting yourself know that it's totally normal to feel this way. And I'm human.
Leanne ElliottIt resonates with me what you said in terms of those conflicting priorities, those decisions that seem at odds that we feel like we need to make one whilst balancing everything else. When you recognize that that chaos, part of that chaos is coming from within, is that internal conflict, what's the first step in starting to do some of that hard work that you mentioned?
Rob KalwarowskyIt starts with the self-awareness. So actually, like, one is we have to overcome our status quo in order to take action. So the first step really is once you feel that those two, that inner conflict of like, well, should I do this or should I do this? Or should I try to grow my business or should I pull back and save all my money? Or whatever that is. Then it's a matter of, okay, how do I start to overcome my status quo bias? And it's natural. The status quo bias is natural because of that same reason. is if we stay in status quo, our brain can predict an outcome, and that makes us feel good, even if that outcome is terrible. Like, I've been suicidal, and my brain goes, just stay where you are, which is like the antithesis of safe. But your brain goes, I know tomorrow you'll wake up, and yes, you'll feel terrible, but you'll still wake up. Right? And so we have to leverage that. And so that's where I have the Find Your Reason tool, which everyone can get a copy of. And really what it's doing is it's allowing people to, one is look at their goals. What do they want to achieve and how will they feel when they achieve it? And then the opposite, which is what is the pain and suffering of status quo? And leveraging those 2 against each other and like adding the most amount and the biggest feelings you can to both sides will make you go, okay, I can't miss out on not changing. And that's the first step.
Leanne ElliottAnd with all the external chaos that is going on and the uncertainty economically, politically, everything, is it also a moment using your tool to reassess our goals? Do we need to Consider if our goals have changed or they need to change?
Rob KalwarowskyAbsolutely, yes. I mean, we've seen it in COVID where folks started to reevaluate why they go to work. And it's changed from, I'm here to get money, I'm here to get status, I'm here to get, you know, to punch the clock and do what I was taught as a kid, to I want to work in something purposeful, meaningful, Or even where my manager affirms me as a person and grows me. And this is again another one of those moments, right? Is like the tech sector is going through hundreds of thousands of people getting laid off. People are getting replaced with AI. Earlier this year was the largest time in history where CEOs were not providing future guidance for their companies to shareholders on annual return reports. And so this is a moment to go, who am I and how can I cultivate inner peace and safety in order for me to trust myself regardless of what happens outside of me? That I can figure it out and I can lean into who I am to create what I need to create so I can have the life I want to live. And that's what I help folks do. But it's also, it's the moment in time where it's like, if you don't shed your fear, you are going to be stuck. And you don't want to get left behind because this is, this is really a crucial moment in all of our lifetimes.
Leanne ElliottYou mentioned AI there, and I think it is definitely a source, a big source of pressure and uncertainty. From your view, how is AI changing the landscape of leadership?
Rob KalwarowskyMIT did a study and they said that 95% of AI projects didn't add any value. So in the current state of AI, It's great for writing emails. It's great for content generation. It's great for a lot of the work that we do as podcast hosts. It can clip up the show, it can clean out the words, it can do some stuff like that. Also, what it is doing is when people are using it to write emails or memos or procedures or policies is basically it's writing stuff and then other people are writing with AI back to it and it's creating its own friction within a business. It's not making you more productive. It's actually increasing just nonsense because you have 2 people using AI back and forth. So as a leader, you have to really get clear on what is your guidance to your company about how are we going to use it and where's it going to add value? and where's it not going to add value? And even things like if you are in a sector where data privacy is important, or you're doing technological work that maybe patents are a part of what you do, or you have a process that you don't want other folks to know about, you have to be very conscious about are you uploading data into a software that's going to release it into the cloud, right? And so even that, from a privacy perspective, is really important as well.
Leanne ElliottWith your coaching work, when you're talking to leaders, what's the thing that they're most fearful of when it comes to this disruption, when it comes to AI automation? What are they talking to you about?
Rob KalwarowskyWhat I've helped leaders the most with in the last few months has just been these decision points. And it's been things like tariffs are impacting their business and they don't know what to do. It's been things like, you know, they're wondering about, should I go and spend money on AI or should I not? They're wondering about 2026 and beyond. Is my business going to exist or am I going to Should I replace my people with AI? A bunch of questions like that. And ultimately, for most of them, it's an internal debate, and that's turning into internal chaos, which is keeping them in this state of stress and burnout. And it doesn't take very long. In general, we can get pretty far on a decision in 45 minutes. And it just gives you that inner clarity. And it's not that you have all the answers, but you know how you're going to address the current situation in this moment. And so an example of this is I had a Canadian CEO and the tariffs in the United States impacted his business. Like they added a bunch of basically expenditure to his business where it would be no longer profitable to sell to the United States. And so he was very, like, there was a lot of chaos about that internally. Like, he was upset. He was wondering, like, should I open a US branch? Like, how do I do this? Canada is not supporting entrepreneurs. Like, all these things. And then we sat down and we worked on it. And he came out and he's like, It's clear that my market and where I have to go in 2026 is Europe and the United Emirates. And so that's where his focus is gonna go.
Leanne ElliottAnd is that what's causing the strain, Rob? Because these are, I mean, they're complete 180s, aren't they, in terms of where you think you're gonna take the business in a very short time? You're completely pivoting. Is that a lot of the source of the stress as well? These are such huge decisions and big changes that we're under pressure to make to, at this point, even just try and survive into 2026.
Rob KalwarowskyIt feels like that, right? And even small things, like I talked to a leader a couple days ago, he's a CTO at a company, and he was just not sure what to do with one of his people. Like what project should he put him on or How does he make them more effective? And there was like multiple parts of him that were thinking about different things. And so, it's not a huge decision. It was just like the internal clarity wasn't there. But you're right, you're totally right, Leanne, is like a lot of us are under a tremendous amount of pressure, whether that's our internal parts of us that are like, you need to win, you need to succeed. I have that. And I'm sure a lot of folks listening, you have that too, right? And so it's like, that is a thing where if you were raised to do well in school, get a good job, make a lot of money, be quote unquote successful, and then you'll be happy. It's a really hard time to fit that. And so you will feel the stress and the uncertainty of how am I going to grow my business? How am I gonna keep winning? How am I gonna get promoted? All these changes, what are they gonna do to me? Am I gonna get laid off for AI? And that creates a lot of stress.
Leanne ElliottAnd is this where we're losing ourselves? You said with your drive and your tour to help people reconnect with their reason, is that what we've lost? What we're losing in the chaos?
Rob KalwarowskyWhat we're losing is ourselves. And the fear and the stress and the chaos creates us into bad leaders. Like if we're fighting or flighting or freezing or fawning, we aren't good leaders. We're not connected to people. We're not making strategic decisions. We're not able to even access innovation. And that ripples into our businesses, our families, and the community and the world. Right? And we can say that because basically one man's inner chaos has completely changed the world uncertainty in the last whatever year. And I can say that because the World Uncertainty Index has increased, and this is a metric that's tracked. And since the fall of 2024 to today, it's gone up by 330%. And it's 87% higher than the peak of the pandemic. That is unprecedented chaos, and it's driven by basically one person.
Leanne ElliottThe leaders, I know you kind of alluded to some of the qualities there, but the leaders that are gonna succeed in this climate, that are gonna capitalize on the chaos, what differentiates them from those who won't succeed?
Rob KalwarowskyIt's the people who have unshakable confidence in who they are and how they can trust themselves and how their parts can trust them to navigate whatever the world throws at them. And those are the people who are going to make the innovations and they're going to capture the market share and they're going to do the things that in 2026 and 2027 and and beyond are going to completely revolutionize their businesses, their families, and the world. And even it's like a company, there was like a famous story during the pandemic where a vodka company started making hand sanitizer. You don't make that decision when you're in fear. You need innovation, which you need to be outside of that stress cycle to make that. And what did it do for their business model? They went from not selling much to blowing up. And that opportunity is here today for folks out there, is you can learn to create that inner clarity, and then you'll be able to do things like that.
Leanne ElliottSo it sounds like chaos can actually be a source of creativity if we know how to leverage it.
Rob KalwarowskyIt's opportunity. There's a famous saying in investing, which is like, when there's blood in the streets, buy. And that's this moment. And just based on the numbers, there's never been this much chaos in the world. And so for folks who are able to step out of the stress and step out of the fear and to really find that clarity, That's when you can find these opportunities, just like one of my clients did, where he's pivoting to Europe and he's pivoting to the UAE. And he even said, he was like, in, in the Emirates, I can charge a premium on my product because it's the best in the world and my margin is far bigger than it is in Canada or the United States.
Al ElliottSo Rob's told us about this massive opportunity. Chaos creates openings that simply don't exist in stable times. One of his clients is pivoting to Europe and UAE, charging premium prices while competitors are paralyzed by fear. But here is the tension. You're hearing this and thinking, well, that sounds great, Rob, but I'm still feeling the fear. I'm still reactive, not proactive. So how do you actually shake that off? How do you debug your own stress response when you are literally, your own brain is screaming at you to freeze? We're gonna hear all about that after this short break.
Leanne ElliottDid you know that the UK's number one management podcast, that's us by the way. That's us.
Al ElliottYeah.
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Yeah.
Leanne ElliottAnd the UK's number one Marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network.
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioral science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)And 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good looking.
Al ElliottAnd you're not gonna say which. Phil, host of Nudge, UK's number 1 marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in 3s—
Leanne Elliottthe HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business.
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Seamless, seamless.
Al ElliottTell us about your latest episode, Phil.
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Uh, we've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioral science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.
Leanne ElliottIt is. It's such, it's such a good Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you wanna hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)It can.
Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)I am.
Al ElliottGo and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back.
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Definitely come back, 'cause Nudge isn't as good as this. So come back.
Leanne ElliottI'll cut that out.
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Keep that in.
Leanne ElliottAnd I know there's gonna be people listening who will want to, want to talk about the opportunity and want to, or want to grasp that opportunity whilst equally feeling that internal chaos that, that you've talked about in terms of, I'm still feeling fearful, I'm still feeling, feeling more reactive than proactive in the environment that, that they're in, that I'm in. How do you shake that off? How do you debug that? How do you start to find that inner clarity and peace in a way that is step by step, is actionable, is tangible?
Rob KalwarowskyAbsolutely. So the first, right, is that I'm human, just connecting to yourself. Then you can go to robkalvarisky.com/reason and get the Find Your Reason tool, which will help you start to clarify what your goals are, what you can do today, And this week to move towards those goals. And then it's about really just developing that self-awareness, like what's going on up here that is keeping you stuck? What is the conversation that is the inner chaos? And starting to just lean into those aspects of yourselves and then being the leader. And so those are parts of you, they're not you. There's a part of you that goes, Rob, you got to work harder. And so you win. There's also a part of you that goes, Rob, you're exhausted. You need to take a break. Only Rob knows the truth, and only Rob can have the balance between both of these polar opposites. And you need to learn how to become the self-leader for those parts in front of you. And I always talk about this as being like a coach. I put in my high achiever part when I need him, and then when I don't need him, I put him on the bench. And so you have— once you can learn to cultivate that inner system, it's literally like you're a leader at work or you're a coach on a team. You're just putting players in when you need them and you're taking them out when you don't. And when they're starting to cause some ruckus on the bench, you're like, it's all good. I got it. I'm in charge. You can sit on the bench.
Leanne ElliottWhat will that mean for people around leaders that are able to cultivate this mindset and this discipline? What does that mean for their team?
Rob KalwarowskyThe flat-out facts are this, Leanne. Engagement, according to Gallup, is roughly 21%. And so if you have 10 people on your team, that means 2 people are actually working hard, 6 people are kind of mailing it in, and then there's another 2 people who are actively working against your team's goals, right? And Gallup reports the top behaviors that drive employee engagement. One is being a caring manager. Another one is focusing on people's strengths. Giving them regular feedback conversations, growing them in their careers. Basically, it's you being some version of a coach for them. If you are in fight, flight, freeze, or fawn, you're not connected to your employees. You're not caring about them. You cannot do empathy. You cannot do any of those behaviors where you're actually trying to help somebody get better because you're fighting your internal system. Once you get to that calmness and that inner confidence, then you can care about somebody else. Then you can develop them. You can engage them. And literally you can double or triple your workforce without hiring a single person.
Leanne ElliottSo what you're saying is it doesn't require any doing any more. It just requires doing things a bit better.
Rob Kalwarowsky100%. And it's, It's so easy. Employee engagement, like those behaviors, yes, of course, it takes the inner work. But when you start doing that, everything gets better. Productivity, profitability, customer satisfaction. You make— your team makes less mistakes. They're happier, they're healthier. It goes into their families. Happy employees are 300% more innovative. Like, it's the greatest thing ever for everybody. Like, and so it's like, there's literally no reason to not do this work.
Leanne ElliottAnd is that the great irony of this time? As you say, a very important and defining time in our lives and probably in our history as humans on this planet. Is the great irony that with all this technology innovation, with artificial intelligence, It's more important than ever to just lean in to what it means to be human.
Rob KalwarowskyYeah, you're completely right. And I was reading an article last week and it was talking about how kids at school, they are spending 50% less of their time after school with friends. And it's really what we've noticed over a long time is people are starting to lean more into technology. and less into the human interaction. And it's something that is irreplaceable, is 2 people in the same room or community or friends. And we need that as people. And of course, Zoom and Teams and all these products are really nice, and we can have interactions and build relationships in ways that we've never done before. Like, I've never met Leanne and Al in person, right? And yet we know each other, we've done these things, right? But it's like the other side of it is that especially when people are in this time of fear, a lot of it is actually how you as a leader show up in your energy. And you can do this, of course, virtually, But it is far more powerful in person.
Leanne ElliottI've also read a lot about how we've had this loneliness epidemic happening for, for years now. It started before COVID and it's got steadily worse and, and continues to. How do we take practical steps to reconnect? Because I think intuitively we know that this human connection is really important, spending time with people face to face is really important, but there's still so much of a part of us that That wants to stay more guarded and wants to set firmer boundaries? How do we, practically speaking, in these times of chaos, lean into these types of relationships that are going to fuel us in the way that we really need?
Rob KalwarowskyIt's both. It doesn't have to be all at work. That's the first thing, right? Is you don't have to make work the only people you meet. You can build community outside of work. You can join groups. You can sign up for your local pickleball league. There are ways for you to meet folks now that are far easier than when we were kids. You can go online and find a group for anything in your town, likely, and sign up for it.
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Right.
Rob KalwarowskyThat's an opportunity. There's also opportunities, like if you are at work, right, is I'm not saying you have to make everyone your best friend and obviously don't tell them literally everything because that never ends well. But it's even just talking about like your kid going to soccer practice the night before, or like, you know, your favorite TV show. It's like opening up the door for small connections and small moments like that. Is a way to build that trust and that relationship and make, and asking about the other folks, right? You can do that in a way that's, that will build connection, but that doesn't reveal, you know, your, like things that you want to keep private.
Leanne ElliottAnd turning back in terms of organizational life, what I'm wondering is if there is a business owner listening that goes, you know what, Rob, I have done the work and I do know my reason. I feel very confident and connected with what I'm trying to do and where I'm going to take my business, but my people are feeling disconnected, my people are feeling chaotic. Maybe they're, yeah, whatever, economically, politically, financially, I can see there's some instability there, or it's impacting performance in some way. What can leaders do to open up this conversation with their employees to try and find this clarity and this confidence, or create the environment where these conversations You can hire me.
Rob KalwarowskyBut no, but seriously, right, is you need to lean into that, right? And I'm not saying you go and ask everybody, like, you don't walk in the room and go, Leanne, you know, you look very unconfident lately. Like, what's going on with you? Like, don't do that, right? But it's about, one is showing up as you, showing up as the leader and showing the clarity and confidence that you have in your direction. And it's like helping people connect to the values of your organization, which hopefully is beyond, I want to make more money so I can buy another yacht, right? And it's about resetting the vision and the values and having people connect to those. And then really making people feel like they matter and they're valued. And that you want to develop them. And it doesn't mean you have to hire someone like me or Leanne to come in and do group programming or coaching or whatever, right? It can be that, but it also could be something like, you know, you do a book club where you buy a bunch of books and people just read it once a week and they meet at lunchtime to talk about it. Or it could be just like putting them on a new project and learn, like, Hey, they want to develop the skill of project management. Great. You can lead this project that we're working on, right? It's stuff like that that moves the needle for people, and you can literally spend $0 on it to tens or hundreds of thousands of it.
Leanne ElliottWhat are your non-negotiable skills for leaders in this chaos?
Rob KalwarowskyThe non-negotiable skill is you have to have your own shit together. Like, that's the flat-out facts. Because if you are in that place of uncertainty and that's driving that fight-or-flight response, or you're feeling the fear and you are displaying that to your people, it literally, and science proves this, will disrupt them. That's not Rob saying that, that's neuroscience and that's facts. Right? And so if you are not 100% rock solid, your people aren't going to be. Now, the inverse is also true. If you are 100% rock solid, you show up every day, you care about your people, you grow them, they're going to be rock solid. And that's the only way that you will capitalize on this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
Leanne ElliottAnd I love that in terms of, you just need to get your shit together because I think business owners like that simplicity and that clarity. And there's, you know, there's no nuance there. We just need to get our shit together. If a business owner is approaching, picking up your book going, I need to get my shit together, where should they concentrate, Rob? Is it a linear thing? Do I need to start at page 1? Do I dip in? How does it work?
Rob KalwarowskyYeah, the book, I mean, you'll, it's very much, there's storytelling, there's Comedy, you start in order and just read it through. But I mean, if you're listening to this and you're like, I need help to get my shit together, like, reach out. robkalvoroski.com. You can find me on LinkedIn. Just reach out. I will help you. This is what I do. I'm an expert in this. And it is not— it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you. This is what everyone is experiencing right now. And you do need help to do this. This is incredibly hard work to do on your own. I, when I was doing this work, and I obviously continue to do this work, I have multiple, I had coaches, I had multiple coaches, I had multiple therapists. You know, I have people who help me do this work even today. Right? And so this is something that you do need someone to help you. And it's really hard, even if you, like, if you listen to the audiobook or you read the book, like, yes, it's going to help, but it's going to lead you to the doorway. And you still need a guide to help you complete this work on your own.
Leanne ElliottI think it's important to stress that there have been times in your life where you haven't had your shit together and Times have been hard. Do you mind sharing a bit about that and, and the steps you took to, to start to move forward?
Rob KalwarowskyAbsolutely. Yeah. I mean, one of the most pivotal moments in my life actually was in the beginning of 2020. And my wife and I, we traveled to Hawaii for her best friend's wedding. And at the time I was depressed, suicidal. I was having panic attacks. There were just, the inner chaos was, was crazy. But everything in my life looked great. Like I was making mid-six figures. I had a stable, successful engineering career. And like my, basically I was, well, we had been dating for a long time and we were, you know, a year or so away from getting engaged. And it didn't matter. But when we were walking down this beach and people were surfing and, you know, it's a beautiful Hawaii, and we came across this Volkswagen bus, and at the back of the bus there was a box of fruit and this cardboard sign that said, leave a dollar and take a fruit. And in that moment, it hit me was the people who were living in that van. They were the ones who were out surfing, and they were free to live their lives one wave at a time. And I had those 2 competing thoughts in that moment. A part of me said, hey, Rob, I would love to do this. And then I had the inner critical voice say, I will never let you do this. And that was the moment where I realized that if I don't change, I will always be controlled by fear. And that was when I started— that's when I started hiring a coach and a therapist and going on the journey. Was before Like I had been depressed, I had been suicidal, I had a suicide attempt, and I always blamed my external, the external environments on that. You know, oh, it's my boss's fault, it's my toxic work environment's fault. And yes, of course it was all true, but ultimately came down to me and I needed to choose to put myself in an environment that works for me. I needed to choose to get control of the chaos in my own mind so I could live the life that I wanted. And doing that work led me to, one is living in the tropics instead of Northern Canada, becoming a coach and a TEDx speaker and an author instead of being an engineer, and then ultimately finding joy and fulfillment in the work that I do. And that's the key message here, right? Is you all listening have a choice. You can be a victim to the chaos, and there are a huge percentage of people who will be, or you can make the choice and go on that journey. And I can't tell you where that journey is going to end up. And of course, you know, as much as I recommend Costa Rica, it doesn't have to land you here. Right? But you get to choose what you want to do and you get to choose how you want to show up every day. And that's the truth.
Leanne ElliottSo it is such, as you say, an opportunity to, for ourselves, for the people around us, for our businesses to really do the work to figure all of that out. And you're also offering our listeners a way to do that with Your giveaway. Tell us about it.
Rob KalwarowskyYeah, so I mean, of course we wanted to do something special for everyone listening. Like, I'm a huge fan of Leanne and Al, and so we wanted to do something special. And so if you go to robkalversky.com/reason and you put your email in to get the tool, um, within 2 weeks of this podcast coming out, everyone who puts in their email will be entered into a draw. And the winner will receive a copy of Capitalizing on Chaos as well as a 6-week coaching engagement with me. And then we'll have 10 people who get the second place prize, which is the book plus one session with me. And so that's what we're giving away. Of course, everyone who enters gets the tool. And so that's what we're doing for all of you. And so this is a, I mean, especially coming up to the end of 2025 and looking towards 2026, this is a prime time to get rolling on your 2026 goals and to actually get out the gate so you can make that 2026 the best year out there. And so get in there, sign up, and let's go.
Leanne ElliottI guess the last question I want to ask you, and it's somewhat of a big one, but what does 2026 hold for us? What can we expect?
Rob KalwarowskyFor 2026, I think chaos is the norm, and I think it's going to continue, and even it might even get bigger. I see the world dividing, and I see a lot of reasons for that to happen, and I don't think that it's going to change in the near term unless there's a significant change in everybody. Now, again, this is a great opportunity, right? Is I also see and meet with leaders who are leading that change. And I was just at a mental health and finance summit in New York in October, and the folks in that room were people who are trying to make that change for people thrive in their daily lives, right? And to, with new technologies and new ideas around how we should treat mental health, how we should support people who struggle and all these different things. And that's kind of the dichotomy I'm seeing right now. I'm seeing people who are drawn to making an impact and to change. And I'm seeing people who are just gonna create more division. And so it's, it's on every one of us to make a choice on what side you wanna be on and how you're gonna drive it forward in your life.
Al ElliottThat was Rob Kalvorowski, and I really hope you noticed that interview was a little bit different because Rob's not selling us some productivity hack or morning routine. He's telling us the brutal truth. If you are stuck in your own internal chaos, you're gonna miss the biggest opportunity of your career.
Leanne ElliottAs always, let's wrap up with our top 3 takeaways for leaders heading into 2024. Lesson 1, you cannot lead others through chaos if you haven't dealt with your own. This isn't motivational speaking, it's neuroscience. When you're displaying stress and fear, it literally disrupts your team's ability to function. Your internal state becomes their external reality. So yeah, get your shit together first, or you'll take everyone down with you.
Al ElliottLesson 2, look, this opportunity is real, but it does have an expiration date. While everyone else is paralyzed, checking headlines and doom scrolling, feeling like they're frozen with fear, there is metaphoric blood in the streets. Rob's clients are pivoting to new markets. Rob's clients are charging premium prices. Rob's clients are capitalizing on openings that only exist because their competitors are stuck. But this window will not stay open forever. The leaders and business owners who do the internal work now will dominate 2026.
Leanne ElliottAnd lesson 3, your brain is lying to you about status quo. It will literally tell you to stay miserable because at least miserable is predictable. Rob was suicidal and his brain said, stay here, it's safer. That's how powerful status quo bias is. Use his Find Your Reason tool, leverage the pain of staying stuck against the possibility of what you could achieve, and make the choice to change before the world makes you.
Al ElliottLook, I don't want to labor the point, but we are heading into 2026 and you have a choice. You can be a victim to the chaos like the majority are gonna be, or you can capitalize on it. And Rob's making this incredibly tangible. He's giving away 6 weeks of coaching plus his book to one lucky listener, and 10 more will get the book plus a session with him.
Leanne ElliottGo to robkalwarowski.com/reason to get the Find Your Reason tool and enter the draw. You've got 2 weeks from when this episode drops, and honestly, even if you don't win, get the tool, start doing the work. Because January 2026 really will be here before you know it, and you need to be ready.
Al ElliottSo if that web address has got too many W's and K's in it, don't worry, just go to our show notes, there's a link there.
Leanne ElliottAnd don't be fooled, this isn't about positive thinking or manifestation or any of that. This is about recognising that the chaos is both outside and inside, and you can only control one of those, so control it.
Al Elliott2026 is going to separate the leaders who capitalise from the ones who got left behind. Which side do you want to be on?
Leanne ElliottThis is Truth, Lies and Work. Get your shit together, and we'll see you next week.