Episode 69 · 14 December 2023 · 38:14

How to Keep Calm Using Mindfulness (Part 1 of 2)

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What mindfulness really is (and isn't)
panel interview#mindfulness #meditation #wellbeing
The science and business case for mindfulness
panel interview#mindfulness #science #business-case
Sean on managing big teams and major life transitions
panel interview#leadership #team-management #life-transitions
Dr Audrey's 'window of tolerance' concept
panel interview#behavioral-science #window-of-tolerance #stress
Preparing for the Christmas onslaught
panel interview#christmas #stress-management #preparation
Affirmations — the good, the bad, and the 'bollocks'
panel interview#affirmations #self-help #critique
Practical exercises: body scans and breathing techniques
panel interview#mindfulness #exercises #breathing #body-scan
Be kind to yourself (and put the phone down)
panel interview#self-compassion #digital-detox #kindness

Show notes

How to Keep Calm Using Mindfulness (Part 1 of 2)

Christmas is coming — and so is the stress that comes with it. In this first of a two-part festive special, Al and Leanne are joined by Chartered Psychologist Dr Audrey Tang and Sean Tolram, Mindfulness Programme Manager at HSBC, to explore the science-backed benefits of mindfulness and how it can help you keep calm when the tinsel's up and the pressure's on.

From understanding what mindfulness actually is (spoiler: it's not just yoga and breathing) to practical exercises like body scans and breathing techniques, Dr Audrey and Sean share tools to help you build mental resilience and stay grounded through the holiday season. Sean also reveals how mindfulness has delivered tangible improvements in team performance and employee wellbeing at HSBC.

This is part one of a two-part series — stay tuned for the next episode, featuring a brand new special guest, as we continue the journey to mental fitness.

🎄 What We Covered

1. Mindfulness is more than yoga and breathing Leanne busts the myth that mindfulness is just relaxation or a risk assessment. It's a mental discipline that helps us become more aware of our thoughts, feelings, and surroundings — and it extends far beyond the yoga mat.

2. The business case is real Dr Audrey shares research from 2015 (Gelles) that found a $3,000 increase in productivity per employee when mindfulness practices were introduced. Sean adds that at HSBC, mindfulness has shown tangible improvements in both team performance and employee wellbeing.

3. The window of tolerance Dr Audrey borrows a term from trauma research to explain how we all have a "window" of how much stress we can cope with. When we're outside it — over or under stimulated — we react too quickly or shut down. Mindfulness helps us notice when we're leaving the window and find our way back to balance.

4. Affirmations — use them wisely Al's a fan of Tony Robbins-style affirmations; Dr Audrey's not so sure about the spiritual side. Her take? Affirmations work when they're grounded in reality and self-compassion, not when they're just empty statements you don't believe.

5. Practical tools you can use today Sean walks through simple, accessible mindfulness exercises — including body scans and breathing techniques — that anyone can do, whatever time they have. The key? Not judging yourself for getting distracted. There's no good or bad in mindfulness.

💡 Top 3 Takeaways

Mindfulness is a discipline, not a vibe. It's about being present and aware — and it has measurable business benefits, not just personal ones.
Notice when you're leaving your window of tolerance. If you're reacting too quickly or shutting down, that's your cue to pause and regulate.
Start small and be kind to yourself. You don't need an hour of meditation — a body scan or a few conscious breaths can be enough. And if your mind wanders, that's not failure.

More From Our Guests

Connect with Sean Tolram: linkedin.com/in/seantolram

Connect with Dr Audrey Tang: linkedin.com/in/dr-audrey-tang-59933816

Dr Audrey's latest book, The Leader's Guide to Resilience: amazon.co.uk

Dr Audrey's award-winning podcast: buzzsprout.com/2051682

🎧 Listen to More on Mental Health & Wellbeing

Find all our past episodes on our website: truthliesandwork.com

🆘 Support with Mental Health and Wellbeing

If you have been affected by any of the themes in this episode, or are currently struggling with your wellbeing, the following resources may be useful:

Mind: mind.org.uk/information-support
If you are feeling in distress or despair, including feelings of suicide, please consider calling the Samaritans for free on 116 123 or email jo@samaritans.org

Connect With Us

Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect

Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14

Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.

Full transcript

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Al ElliottThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.

Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.

Sean TolramNice.

Al ElliottCheck out hopspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.

Dr Audrey TangIf we feel like crying, something is clearly wrong. So first of all, cry. Find that balance again. Find that state of, as Martin Seligman would say, emptiness, but I would say neutrality. And from that state of neutrality, it's a better place to then decide, right, what can I do next?

Leanne ElliottHello and welcome to the Truth, Lies and Workplace Culture podcast, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a business psychologist.

Al ElliottMy name is Al. I'm a business owner.

Leanne ElliottWe are here to help you simplify the science of people and create amazing workplace cultures.

Al ElliottYeah, welcome, welcome, welcome. Merry Christmas, Happy Christmas, happy holidays. Um, I don't know how to say it in Croatian. Um, I used to be able to say it. Sreten something? No, maybe that's good luck.

Leanne ElliottNo, that is— there's a Z with a hat and a C with an airplane.

Dr Audrey TangOh, Božić.

Al ElliottBožić, Bočić, Božić. We'll find out for the next episode how you say happy year. Uh, in fact, we should probably find out how to say it in Bosnian since we're in Herzegovina. Um, anyway, you didn't come here to hear about Happy Christmas in different languages, did you? Here you came here to hear about, I'm guessing, workplace culture, more specifically mindfulness. Is it, Leanne?

Leanne ElliottYes, December is marching on and Christmas really is just around the corner. Christmas— now Christmas is a time for joy, laughter, togetherness. It can also bring its fair share of stress and overwhelm, but fear not because we have gathered 2 incredible guests who are experts in mindfulness and mental fitness. They are here to guide us through the chaos and help us find that inner calm amid the holiday hustle and bustle.

Al ElliottYes, this is the first part of a 2-part special where we're going to be exploring the science behind mindfulness, the truth and lies of its effectiveness in reducing stress and enhancing well-being, and some practical exercises you can start incorporating into your daily routine right away.

Leanne ElliottYeah, so whether you're planning a cozy family gathering, embarking on holiday travel like we are, or simply want to embrace a spirit of the season with more serenity. You won't want to miss this episode. Grab yourself a cup of tea, find a comfortable spot to relax, and let's explore how to stay calm this Christmas through transformative power of mindfulness.

Al ElliottTo guide us through this, we've got 2 incredible guests. You're gonna love them.

Leanne ElliottYes, we are. 2 incredible guests that'll be showing us how to keep calm this Christmas, even when Uncle Kevin— you remember Uncle Kevin— has had too many sherries and has passed out on the sofa before the turkey is even on the table again, probably. First, we are thrilled to be joined by Dr. Audrey Tang. Dr. Audrey is a chartered psychologist and mental health broadcaster with an award-winning podcast and community radio show, The Wellbeing Lounge. She's also a multi-award-winning business author with her 3 books, The Leader's Guide to Mindfulness, Resilience, and Wellbeing, serving as a practical guide to building and maintaining mental fitness. They are also some of my personal favorites. A true psychology icon and one of the most engaging speakers you'll ever come across. Let's meet Dr. Audrey.

Dr Audrey TangI'm Dr. Audrey Tang. I'm a chartered psychologist with the British Psychological Society. I'm also a business author. My area of research was on emotional labor, which is the presentation of certain behaviors and emotions that go alongside the technical aspects of your job. So for example, a teacher or a nurse having to present that very positive and warm character even though they might have had a really awful day and how stressful that can be. I deliver business training, that's the day job, but I also host a community radio show, a podcast, and get involved in all sorts of mental health awareness raising.

Al ElliottOur second guest is the incredible Shaun Tolram. Shaun is the Mindfulness Programme Manager at HSBC. Yes, that HSBC. HSBC, the massive bank. He's a teacher and a coach in mindfulness. He's committed to helping people understand their brains and unlock their potential. His mission is to roll out and embed mindfulness globally across HSBC with a focus on creating sustainable employee-led communities that are gonna drive a cultural change and make people basically be at their best, whether they're at work or at home. Let's go meet Sean.

Sean TolramI'm the head of mindfulness at HSBC Bank. And, um, we're trying to embed mindful ways of working across the organisation so that we can help employees to build happy, healthy, and successful careers.

Leanne Elliott2 awesome guests joining us on the podcast this week for part 1 of this special 2-part series.

Al ElliottSo let's start by understanding what mindfulness really is.

Sean TolramSo for me, um, in its most simple term, I call it gym for the brain. It's a way to, um, to exercise your back, your brain, to train it so that it can work in a different way. It allows us to, um, build mental strength and resilience. It can help us to focus our attention because in today's world there are so many distractions, so many things that fighting for our attention. It can be very easy to lose control. So to be able to focus our attention where we want it is a valuable skill to have. Also, the ability to be in the present moment.

Leanne ElliottMindfulness is about being present. So put simply, it's a mental discipline that enables us to become more aware of our thoughts, to be able to observe them, and choose which thoughts to follow. When practiced regularly, it can help us to improve our attention and better control stress. Mindfulness may seem like a recent bad, but as Dr. Audrey explains, it's been around for thousands of years. In fact, it was this misconception that motivated Dr. Audrey to write her book in the first place.

Dr Audrey TangMindfulness at the time was a bit of a buzzword. It still is, and I have a little bit of an issue with buzzwords. And in a way, that's why I wrote well-being at the end of it, because that's become a little bit of a buzzword too. And I like to unpack what it really means and actually find practical ways of using it. And I was drawn in particular to mindfulness as an area of being able to manage burnout and manage stress, not just because that was— stress and burnout was my PhD, but my grandfather was a mindfulness teacher. He was a Buddhist teacher in Malaysia and he wrote a book on mindfulness. And so it was— there was always a connection and there was always a different understanding for me. where it comes to mindfulness. And so I actually wrote that one as a tackling of mindfulness being a buzzword. And my very first chapter in it talks about how mindfulness has always been a practice in Buddhism, but it was only around the '80s where the mindfulness-based stress research all came in that it started getting into business literature. And I may be a little bit cynical here, but it always worries me when I see things suddenly come into literature because then suddenly everybody starts using it. And when big companies start using it, yes, there are results, but other people can start using it and not really understand why they're doing it. Big companies often have the ability to speak to the people who created the causes in the first place and actually begin to really understand it.

Al ElliottDisconnecting the what and the why is a common theme in organisational psychology or people and culture practices. That's why we see beanbags and ping pong tables in break rooms. And mindfulness is shrouded in misunderstandings and misconceptions. Here's Audrey to help us understand it a bit better.

Dr Audrey TangWhen I used to deliver sessions at university, you ask people what mindfulness is, oh, it's yoga, it's breathing, it's meditation. And Then I asked the same question in a conference and I got the same answer. And that means that's what a lot of organizations are thinking when they're talking about mindfulness. And yes, yoga, breathing, meditation, that's all one aspect of being able to practice mindfulness, but it's not the whole thing. Mindfulness can be informal and practical. It can be simply in the common parlance use of the word, just be mindful about X, Y, and Z. It can be your risk assessment is mindfulness. And if that's the case, then if you did a psychological risk assessment, if you were aware of your own wellbeing in the workplace and the things that you need to function well, that can be part of mindfulness. So, as I say, that's one of the most common misconceptions is if I just do a little bit of deep breathing, that's me being mindful. It's not enough, and then mindfulness extends a lot broader than that.

Leanne ElliottSo now we know what mindfulness is, let's dive into the science. Is there an empirical case for mindfulness, or is it all woo? I asked Dr. Audrey.

Dr Audrey TangThere is a scientific basis to deep breathing, for example, in that when we breathe, when we breathe shallowly, that's when the sympathetic nervous system kicks in. That's when we start, um, the brain starts thinking, oh, there must be a threat because we're getting ourselves ready to fight or flee. And if we breathe more slowly, then that helps the parasympathetic system kick in, which just relaxes the body. And as I say, it helps eventually reduce the level of cortisol and so on. So yes, there is a lot of science to deep breathing in itself. There's been a lot of research in mindfulness. If you don't mind, I've written it down so I'm going to— so I get it right. In 2015, Gellis found that $3,000 per employee. They found a $3,000 increase in productivity per employee when they included mindfulness in their day-to-day practices in the workplace. Research findings also showed improved creativity, improved self-reports of well-being, improved focus, improved relationships as well with colleagues and friendships, and improved decision-making.

Leanne ElliottThere has been—

Dr Audrey Tangthere are benefits, but whether it is the mindfulness practices that have been in the company have maybe resulted in better sleep, which in turn results in better performance and so on, that link is a little bit shakier. But at the same time, if it works for you and it works for your teams, great. use it. So, there has been a lot of that used in terms of business, and a lot of companies, big companies, do use it and do find results. So, that's it, yeah, in terms of that. But in terms of any sort of psychological findings, you do have to say, well, who was the sample? Who was the cohort? What were they doing? And can this really be generalized?

Leanne ElliottSo, it depends. And the reason, as psychologists, Love that answer. It's because it really does. Every finding from every study needs to be scrutinized to answer definitively, and even then there's the age-old argument of correlation and causation. As Dr. Audrey said, is it mindfulness causing the increase in performance, or is it mindfulness improving sleep which improves performance? So while a lot of the research has been on small samples and does need to be replicated, we can use research to make some tentative conclusions, including that mindfulness has been shown to reduce fatigue and anxiety and improve working memory and executive functioning, and even contribute to physical changes in the brain, with increases in the thickness of what is called cortical or gray matter in regions of the brain related to attention, self-awareness, and emotional regulation. But yeah, science aside, if it works for you and your teams, use it. HSBC has used mindfulness as a feature within their wellbeing strategy for over a decade. I asked Sean if there was a transformation or change that really showcased for him what mindfulness can do.

Sean TolramYeah, so, um, as my career progressed and I found myself managing bigger and bigger teams, I became less interested in myself and my own skills and started to think more about the people in my teams, how to motivate them, how to get the best out of them. Then I started wondering why, um, talented people weren't performing to the best of their ability. And I started to look at what's causing that. And what I was finding was that it was stress mainly, that people were under severe levels of stress and that was impacting their performance. So I started to implement principles of mindfulness, even though I didn't really know at the time what I was doing. Implementing those principles of mindfulness, helping people to assess how they are and whether they're in the right frame of mind to carry out certain tasks, and then giving them the autonomy to make decisions about what they do. So I started doing that within the teams that I was managing and got some really good results. So in, in one team that I managed, um, we were publishing updates to HSBC websites, and there was a few too many errors going live. But after embedding some mindfulness principles, we reduced the error rates by about 50%. So we're able to see some tangible improvements there.

Leanne ElliottSean also shared how mindfulness practice can help people manage major life transitions.

Sean TolramOne area where I'm finding a lot of success is with our graduates. So young people coming into the workforce, it can be a really difficult transition for them. And, you know, when you've been in the industry for decades, you forget what it was like when you were first starting. So I've been working with them to deliver various sessions to help them make that transition because it can be very stressful. You know, you've got the big change from uni to work, the regular working hours that you now have to do, expectations from family and friends, a very competitive environment where you're— it's almost like sometimes I think it's a bit like The Apprentice, you know, where you've got the group of people and they're almost battling against each other to get the best Um, so by teaching them about their brains, teaching them about the stress response and how to recognize when they're stressed and what they can do about it, I've seen really great results for them and getting really good feedback in that area.

Leanne ElliottDid you know that the UK's number 1 management podcast— that's us, by the way— and the UK's number 1 marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?

Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioral science help people do better at work.

Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.

Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good looking. And you're not going to say which. Phil, host of Nudge, UK's number 1 marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in 3s— the HubSpot Podcast Network.

Leanne ElliottThe audio destination for business professionals.

Sean TolramSeamless.

Al ElliottSeamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil.

Sean TolramWe've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioural science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff, and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.

Leanne ElliottIt is, it's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?

Sean TolramIt can.

Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?

Dr Audrey TangI am.

Al ElliottGo and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.

Leanne ElliottBut come back.

Al ElliottYeah, come back.

Sean TolramDefinitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this. So come back.

Al ElliottI'll cut that out. Keep that in. So now we know what mindfulness is, we know there is some science behind it. Let's just explore how we can use mindfulness in our daily lives to build our mental fitness. Well, let's be honest, our patience levels this Christmas. Dr. Audrey explains that our first step is to be mindful of our window of tolerance.

Dr Audrey TangI like to borrow a term from trauma research, and it is known as the window of tolerance. And We all have a different window. That window is the amount of optimal stimulation or arousal that we can deal with before it becomes too much or too little. And for many of us, it's relatively standard. It's okay. It's quite broad. But if we've been through horrible experiences, traumatic experiences, and this can include things like being schooled during the pandemic, being at university or starting a new job during the pandemic. It can be recent experiences as well as childhood experiences. That window can shrink because if you're always— if you've been through a traumatic time, you can always just be looking for the next thing to happen to you, whereas if you haven't been through that, then you're actually more able to cope with, with what's going on. So what I would say to people is, if you notice that you are immediately irritable or you're behaving out of character in some way, then take a step back and ask yourself what, what might be going on here. So that window of tolerance can broaden, it can get smaller depending on what's been going on. But if we are reacting very, very quickly to either over or under stimulation, uh, then we probably need to take a moment to think about what's happening.

Leanne ElliottSo what happens when our window of tolerance is closing? What if it's Christmas Day, Uncle Kevin has had too many sherries, the turkey is burnt, the house is a mess, and I just want to cry? What do I do, Dr. Audrey?

Dr Audrey TangWell, there's things you can do at the point of crisis, and, and the first thing is just take some time to yourself. If you want to cry, cry. what we have a tendency to do is push away negative emotions. Because if we think back perhaps to growing up, often we'll be told as children, calm down, inside voice, put your big girl pants on, grow up, all of those sorts of things which tend to impress upon us, because these are our role models, these are our caregivers telling us to do this, that any negative emotions or big emotions are therefore wrong. And that can be really problematic because when we start feeling those emotions, we then— that inner narrative says to us, don't, don't feel them, just, just suppress them. It's a little bit like Elsa in Frozen. And there's a lot to say about that particular message. But if we're suppressing them all the time, then they're going to come out somewhere. And actually, there's no reason to suppress them because emotions are simply there to just give us messages. If we feel like crying, something is clearly wrong. So first of all, cry. Find that balance again. Find that state of, as Martin Seligman would say, emptiness, but I would say neutrality. And from that state of neutrality, it is a better place to then decide, right, what can I do next? The reason I like the use of the term neutrality is from dialectic behavior therapy. They talk about how emotion, we have got an emotional mind, which can be very positive emotion, joyful, very excited, and very negative emotion, but either way, both can tip us off balance. Maria Konnikova calls that tilt. But there's also the logical mind, which is reason, and this is what we ought to do, and the consequences, and all of those things. But actually, DBT, dialectical behavior therapy, says we need to bring it together and live in a place known as the wise mind. So that sort of more balanced emotion, more balanced logic, brings us that wisdom. from which we can move forward and make healthier decisions. So if you need to cry, cry. That's the first thing.

Al ElliottAnd with Christmas not quite here, what can we actually do to prepare ourselves for this onslaught?

Dr Audrey TangChristmas comes but once a year with all its expectations, but it comes every year. And if you know your uncle's going to have too many sherries, you can plan for that. So we need to also take some Power back where we can. We're not necessarily going to have to react the whole time. If we can predict something, we can be aware, and we forward-plan. It's the same thing in the workplace. We can forward-plan for our Christmas as well. Absolutely. You cannot control what somebody else can do. What you have control and power with is your response to it. And if you have trapped yourself into that feeling of, Well, that's my job. I just have to put up with it. Who is telling you that? Where has that narrative come from? Because no one is holding you down and saying, you have to put up with it, unless they are, in which case, that's a very different conversation to have because we can go into narcissistic parents. We can go into all of those other behaviors, but it's not necessarily appropriate for this particular podcast. But if that's just an inner narrative that you have in your own head, you may need to ask the question, what do I think and what, what no longer serves me anymore? We could be reacting in ways that have served us well and have been strategies when we were very young. Maybe we were always solving the problem. Maybe we were always having to cover up or fix things. But now as adults, perhaps that role has changed or has minimized. Or differed in some way, and therefore when we're back with our families, in almost— we revert back to our younger selves. It's known by Charles Cooley as the looking glass self. We react as other people almost expect us to. We might need to remind ourselves that things have changed and we're no longer there. I have a lovely affirmation that people can use, and that is, I'm a problem solver, I'm not the solution. And if we've learned to become the solution, if we've learned to be the fixer, if we are therefore a people pleaser, perhaps we might also suffer from imposter syndrome. That's a really nice affirmation to remind ourselves that we're there to help, but we're not there to be the solution for everybody. And if we remind ourselves of that, we might actually also remember that we need to replenish our own energy tank to be helpful in doing that.

Al ElliottHold on a freaking moment. We're talking about here affirmations. Now, I was a big fan of Tony Robbins, and so I did some affirmations when I was bankrupt and had no money and no food. But nowadays I'm a bit like, oh, does it work? I can see there are 2 types of listener we've got here. Some people are going, yeah, affirmations, love them, use them, look at myself in the mirror, you're a tiger, kind of thing. But all those going, what a load of— bollocks, I think, which is the technical term. So we put this— Dr. Audrey?

Dr Audrey TangI'm not okay with the spiritual side of it. I have written a book on mindfulness, but I use affirmations in a slightly different way. For me, I use them as part of deep breathing practice in that, for example, if you breathe in and then say the affirmation in one breath, that slows your breathing down. So for example, you breathe in through the nose, and then you say, I'm not I am a problem solver, I'm not the solution. So that works quite nicely. And if you do that a few times, that ritual of breathing in and then saying the affirmation, that helps to slow our— it helps engage our parasympathetic nervous system. However, affirmations are positive statements that we say to ourselves. Maybe they give us confidence. It might be the fake it till you make it. It might be things that we need to remind ourselves of. And there's a school of thought where if you say these enough times, you begin to prime your mind to think in that particular way. And there is some truth to that. The mind is— there's a neuroplasticity of the mind, which means that we do focus on what we think about, what we tell ourselves, what goes in. I have slightly different affirmations, and I totally understand. And so, if you will indulge me, I will give you the exercise that I would use even when my clients are, oh, I hate them, I hate them, I don't— because I don't know whether— I deliver to large groups. I don't know whether people hate them or not. Some of them will love them, some of them won't, but this is what I'll ask them to do. I'm going to ask you to follow this ball whilst I do it. So if you breathe in through the nose, and then as you breathe out, let's try an affirmation such as, I can face any challenges that come my way. That's a more classic one. Breathing in through the nose, and again, out through the mouth. I can face any challenges that come my way. And we do this a few times. And I know some people will love it. And we do a few different affirmations, and some people absolutely hate it. However, for the people who absolutely hate it, the question I would like to ask you is, where was your mind going? If you hated it, that's absolutely fine. But where was your mind taking you? Was it taking you to a judgment or critical thought? Oh, that's so awful. She's awful. Why am I doing this? Critical thoughts and judgments aren't necessarily helpful, but what that will do is that will give us an insight to what our brain is doing. Or it might be, were you thinking about that work email that you have to send or that dissertation you have to write? If you can thought catch, even if you don't like the affirmation itself, if you can catch what you were thinking at that particular time, you've already already gained an insight into where your thoughts are going. If you know where your thoughts are going, what is then happening is you know where your energy is going. And if it's going into something that you cannot actually physically, practically solve or do anything about, that's where a lot of wasted energy can go. We only have 24 hours in a day. Of those 24 hours, we have about 6 really good energetic hours before we exhaust ourselves. We do have quite a limited store of energy. So if you become aware of that, that can be really helpful. But for those who love affirmations, you've just enjoyed the affirmations and that's wonderful. You've gone straight into it and that's great because what that also means for you is that by being able to calm our mind at the point of crisis, not only does it provide a bit of a buffer so we can actually withstand a lot more, we can be a lot more tolerant of what's going on around us, but we can also reduce our cortisol level, the stress hormone, a lot faster because that deep breathing and the use of affirmations has been found to be useful for that particular service or that particular outcome.

Leanne ElliottMindfulness is a practice, and it's at its most effective when we can integrate it seamlessly into our day-to-day life. I asked Sean, is there anything we can do for just a few minutes a day that will make a difference?

Sean TolramYeah, so I like to make mindfulness very accessible for anyone, whoever they are, However much time they have, whatever their beliefs. So if, if a couple of minutes a week works for you, then that's a great place to start. And you can— there are various techniques that you can use. There's breathing techniques, there's body scans, there's all sorts of things. We can do one right now, Leanne. So if you just place your attention on your shoulders and just notice how, how they are, you know, are they tense? Are they relaxed? How are they? And if they are a bit tense, do you want to do anything about it? Do you feel like relaxing them? You don't have to because there's no judgment. But it's just that awareness and noticing, okay, some— maybe something's going on and maybe I want to make a decision about it. And we've just done a mindfulness practice together. So it can be as simple as that. What we normally recommend for people who want to really get started and investigate this is starting with about 10 minutes a day. For most people, the morning works well because you've got a bit of time. So as you get up out of bed and your feet hit the floor, maybe that's a trigger to do 10 minutes of mindfulness. And there's many apps out there that you can use, or you can just sit and connect with your breath, or you can do, you know, the exercise we just did with your shoulders, but you can expand that to the whole body. So various things you can do, just Google it, get on YouTube. find a 10-minute practice, and then just, just have that awareness of how it's affecting you and, and what benefits you are seeing. And think of it, as we were saying before, as a skill to be developed. So just doing one isn't going to make a profound difference. It actually, for some people, it won't go well, uh, or they'll think that it hasn't gone well, because if you have a busy mind, it can be very difficult to focus on your breath. Now the key is to not see that as a bad thing, because with mindfulness there's no good and bad. It's— that's information that tells you something. Okay, I got up and I had a really busy mind. It was so busy that I couldn't focus on my breath. So what's that telling me? Then you can start to investigate, which starts to get you out of that autopilot because you're noticing how you are and you're then able to make decisions based on how you want to respond.

Al ElliottMindfulness is not about lying in a dark room and meditating. Shawn says you can actually do it anywhere and that actually it can be more effective if you do it, especially in the workplace.

Sean TolramIt's a common misconception that you have to go away into a dark room somewhere and do half an hour of meditation. Now, for many people, that works wonders, but mindfulness can be done anytime, anyplace. So you could do it when you're stuck in traffic and you're sitting there swearing to yourself. You could do it when someone jumps in front of you in the coffee queue. You can do it when you're in a meeting and someone says something that has triggered you, and you feel that instinctive reaction to snap back because your brain has sensed danger. It's put you into fight or flight mode, and you're having the same reactions as if you're trying to fight off a wild animal. Except when you're in the boardroom, you can't start a fight. You can't kill someone. So It's, it, it's being able to recognize that, okay, that's what my primitive brain is telling me to do. But I'm gonna make a decision and just pause, take a breath, and use a different part of my brain so that I can respond in a different way. So yeah, for me, it's something that I do very much in the moment when I need it. But that comes with practice. It's the practice that's important because, like everything, the more you practice, the easier and more automatic it becomes. So eventually, you hardwire that practice in your brain and it becomes just part of who you are and the way that you go about your life.

Al ElliottYou might not be able to start a fight in the boardroom, but you probably certainly can have a go at it in the living room with your relatives. This may sound a little optimistic if your home life is super super stressful and even more stressful than your work life, you might be dreading the holiday season. So how can you control yourself in the moment when we've actually been triggered? Sean offers some fantastic advice.

Sean TolramIt's definitely not easy because we're going against our natural instincts. We've been designed to defend our territory, to snap back when we feel danger. And this has come from thousands, millions of years of evolution. This is how we ended up here. So we're now saying, okay, you need to try and resist those instinctive reactions that are within your DNA and do something different. And, you know, I had one the other day where someone sent an email to me sort of, sort of complaining about something that I'd done and copying in lots of people. I'm sure many of us have been there. And straight away I started typing back and, you know, trying to justify what I did. And, and, you know, it wasn't in— when I read it back, it wasn't in the way that I would normally speak. Luckily, I was able to stop myself before I hit send and I just deleted it. But again, it's something that comes with practice. And if you find that you aren't able to do it, if it doesn't work, don't beat yourself up because it's a very difficult skill that we're trying to learn here. And in order to do it, like when you're in the moment, to answer your question, breathing really helps. If, if you can work on creating a habit where you recognize where you've been triggered, when that happens, you're able to just pause and breathe a couple of times before you respond. So it's being able to create that gap. So that you're not responding— so that you're not reacting, rather, instantly, and you're able to pause and respond. But that takes practice, and it takes many failed attempts. And each time you might find that you get better and better, and you're, you're able to create that gap a bit more easily. So it's just being conscious and being aware, really, and trying as much as possible to take that pause when you've been triggered. But there's, there's, yeah, there's no easy, easy solution or techniques. It's a very, very difficult thing to do.

Leanne ElliottBe kind to yourself, listener, and to others. There is a chance that some of your actions and behaviours are triggering to other people. Mindfulness at its core is about being present and choosing where to focus your attention. As Dr. Audrey explains, choosing to focus on just one thing or person in that moment is a powerful way to practice mindfulness.

Dr Audrey TangWell, let's, let's just give the example of what we might do when somebody asks, or you ask somebody, how are you? You might be, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, you're, you're good, are you? So how was work?

Sean TolramYeah, yeah, that's—

Dr Audrey Tangwe call it multitasking. Actually, it's A, fubbing if we've got our phone out and we're trying to write that email at the same time as listening to the person we've just asked the question. The second thing is we become really good at what we practice, and if we're practicing being distracted or multitasking— and it's not multitasking, it's attention splitting— then all of those things that we're trying to do, all of those cognitive tasks that we're trying to do— have a conversation, write an email, listen to the TV at the same time— all of that, it only gets a part of our attention. So if we learn to focus, even if we just focus for the minute that we're doing that task or the minute that we're having that conversation, what we'll actually find is we'll get better at that moment, so we don't need to redo it. And actually, the people we're interacting with feel better as well. So there are extra benefits of just focusing a tiny bit more.

Al ElliottWhat fantastic advice. By focusing on that person, that conversation, we can also make the person we're interacting with feel a little bit better.

Leanne ElliottYeah, it reminds me of that famous Charles Dickens quote speaking of Christmas.

Al ElliottBah humbug?

Leanne ElliottNo, not bah humbug. No.

Al ElliottUm, you shall have a Christmas, Tiny Tim. Well, I'm only going for the Muppets. I've not actually read the Dickens one. I just know the Muppets one. Merry Christmas, everyone! Or something.

Leanne ElliottMerry Christmas, Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the one I was thinking of, Al— Charles Dickens said that no one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of others.

Al ElliottOh, nice. And on that note, it is the end of the episode and part 1 of this special series, 2-part series. We're back next week with Dr. Audrey and Sean Tolram, a 3rd surprise special guest to talk more about staying mentally well. Are we— are we— do we— do we disclose it now or leave it till next week?

Leanne ElliottI think we should. I think people might be inclined to, to subscribe and tune in next week. We will also be joined— Dr. Audrey will be back, Sean Tolvron will be back. We will also be joined by the awesome Stuart Sandeman, BBC Radio 1 DJ and host of the Decompression Sessions. He is also a Sunday Times bestseller for his book Breathe In, Breathe Out, and the founder of Breathe Pod, which we will tell you more about next week.

Al ElliottSo hopefully that has helped a little bit more to come next week. If you're not subscribed, click subscribe, join 50,000 other people who listen to our pod each month, and hopefully it helps them a little bit. Um, and, um, yeah, I think that's it really. If you want to continue the discussion, then you know we're always on LinkedIn. Always search for Leanne or me. If you, if you message me, I'll be honest, I won't, I won't reply for about 3 weeks because I never check in. But Leanne's on it every single day. You probably have a proper discussion with her.

Leanne ElliottI am. Thank you very much to our awesome guests, Dr. Audrey and Sean Tolliver from HSBC. We'll be back next week. We'll see you then.

Al ElliottBye-bye.

Leanne ElliottFor his book Breathe In, Breathe Out—

Dr Audrey Tangbreathe, breathe, breathe, breathe in, breathe out. You slay!

Leanne ElliottYou slay!

Al ElliottCareful, gov, he's got a shooter.

Leanne ElliottThey are also some of my personal favorites. A true psychology icon. Icon.

Al ElliottAnd with Christmas still not quite here, depending when you listen to this, Christmas just not quite— What was this? That's my I fucked it face. Mindfulness is not about lying in a dark room and meditating and saying, um, it should be om, shouldn't it? Do that bit again. This is not— we don't do this for us. Well, we do it for us because we're egotistical, but we do it.

Dr Audrey TangAnd we like—

Al ElliottI sometimes go to sleep listening to listen to their podcast. I probably shouldn't admit that, um, but— I might do all that bit again.