Truth, Lies & Work

Episode 70 · 21 December 2023 · 46:01

What's the Secret to a Stress-Free Christmas? (Part 2 of 2)

What's the Secret to a Stress-Free Christmas? (Part 2 of 2)

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  1. Welcome back to Part 2 — setting the scene

    intro#podcast#introduction

  2. Introducing the guests — Dr. Audrey Tang, Sean Tolram & Stuart Sandeman

    intro#guests#introduction

  3. Why mental fitness beats mental health

    panel interview#mental-health#mental-fitness#breathing

  4. Building mental fitness — individual responsibility and habit formation

    panel interview#mental-fitness#habits#personal-development

  5. The trap of people-pleasing and the sustainability problem for leaders

    panel interview#people-pleasing#leadership#sustainability

  6. Mastery activities — fun, challenging, joyful

    panel interview#mastery#fun#challenge

  7. Music, rhythm and entrainment

    panel interview#music#rhythm#entrainment

  8. Why leaders must invest in their own mental health — Gen Z challenge

    panel interview#leadership#mental-health#gen-z

  9. Secret #1 — Rest and recovery

    panel interview#rest#recovery#wellbeing

  10. Secret #2 — Reflection and the Wellbeing Wheel

    panel interview#reflection#wellbeing-wheel#self-care

  11. Secret #3 — Breathe: Stuart's practical tips

    panel interview#breathing#practical-tips#stress-relief

  12. Who's responsible for wellbeing and closing thoughts

    panel interview#wellbeing#responsibility#closing-thoughts

Show notes

What's the Secret to a Stress-Free Christmas? (Part 2 of 2)

Truth, Lies & Work — Al Elliott and Leanne Elliott (Chartered Occupational Psychologist) are back with the second half of their festive special on beating holiday stress. Joined by Dr. Audrey Tang (Chartered Psychologist and Mental Health Broadcaster), Sean Tolram (Mindfulness Programme Manager at HSBC), and Stuart Sandeman (BBC Radio 1 DJ and founder of Breathpod), they explore mental fitness, rest and recovery, the power of reflective practice, and why breathwork might be the simplest gift you give yourself this year.

🎄 The Three Secrets to a Stress-Free Christmas

1. Rest and recovery — Rest isn't a reward for productivity; it's a prerequisite for it. Sean explains why sustainable performance depends on genuine downtime, and why leaders who skip it are modelling exactly the wrong behaviour for their teams.

2. Reflection — Leanne introduces the Wellbeing Wheel as a practical framework for checking in with yourself. Stuart adds that reflective practice builds self-awareness and emotional regulation — but warns it's not a magic wand. Sometimes the job is sitting with a hard moment, not thinking your way out of it.

3. Breathe — Stuart Sandeman's core message: your breath is a remote control for your nervous system. Simple breathing exercises can regulate your stress response, retrain your patterns, and help you inhale the joy and exhale the stress this Christmas.

💬 Key Conversations

The "mental fitness" reframe — Leanne explains why "fitness" beats "health" as a framing: it implies something you build and maintain, not a fixed state you either have or don't.

The people-pleasing trap — Stuart opens up about his own history of impressing others and doing what he thought people wanted — and why that path leads nowhere good.

The Gen Z challenge — Dr. Audrey warns that organisations that don't understand younger workers' relationship with stress and perfectionism are storing up problems.

Who owns wellbeing? — The team tackles the perennial debate: is wellbeing an individual responsibility or an organisational one? The answer, unsurprisingly, is both.

🔗 Resources & More from Our Guests

Sean Tolram

Stuart Sandeman

Dr. Audrey Tang

🎧 More on Mental Health & Wellbeing

All past episodes: truthliesandwork.com

🆘 Mental Health Support

If you have been affected by any of the themes in this episode, or are currently struggling with your wellbeing, the following resources may be useful:

Connect With Us

Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect

Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14

Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.

Full transcript

Expand full transcript
Al ElliottThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Stuart SandemanNice.
Al ElliottCheck out hopspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
Stuart SandemanWhen my girlfriend passed away, um, and I was in a bad headspace, I— breathing— I came across breathing. Sounds so simple, that thing we do all day, every day. And it literally changed my whole outlook. It was like the light bulb switched on. I had a very powerful experience.
Leanne ElliottHello, and welcome to the Truth, Lies, and Workplace Culture podcast, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a business psychologist.
Al ElliottMy name is Al. I'm a business owner.
Leanne ElliottWe are here to help you simplify the science of people and create amazing workplace culture.
Al ElliottHello and welcome, welcome, welcome. Um, I hope that you're feeling a little bit less stressed from last week. I'm not sure we are. We've got a lot to get through. We, we have to set off for the UK, um, very, very shortly, and so we wanted to get all these done. So I'll be honest, I'm a bit grumpy today, if the truth be told. And, um, I think Leanne's putting on a brave face, but I am a little bit grumpy. So if I get grumpy with you, listener, I'm really sorry. It's not you, it's me. I need, I need to take some of this advice on board.
Leanne ElliottYes, it's a well-timed episode, I guess. We are back with part 2 of our special series on managing stress and staying mentally fit during the chaos of the holiday period. You might be looking forward to the break from work, you might be dreading the time you'll be spending with your family. Either way, we're here to guide you through how to ho-ho-hold onto your serenity this Christmas.
Al ElliottI have a feeling that we're gonna have a few puns in this one. Yeah, you seem like you're in a punny kind of mood.
Leanne ElliottI am in a punny kind of mood.
Al ElliottSo yes, this is Part 2 of a 2-part series. Last week we looked at the truth and lies of mindfulness and how staying present may give you the greatest gift this Christmas. There you go, do my own pun there.
Leanne ElliottNice.
Al ElliottAnd also maybe the greatest gift you can give others. This week we're joined once again by the renowned psychologist Dr. Audrey Tang and mindfulness coach Sean Tolram from HSBC. We're also thrilled to welcome a special guest here. It is Stuart Sandeman, who is the Radio 1 DJ, uh, he's the host of the Decompression Sessions, and also I believe he's written a book.
Leanne ElliottHe has. He's done all sorts of things. Stuart Suniman is very cool. Our guests are all here to help you slay your stress this Christmas. In this episode, we will be exploring 3 secrets, 3 ways that you can build your mental fitness and stay serene and centred over the holiday period. I'm not going to tell you, tell you what they are. You're gonna have to listen and find out. But, um, but yeah, before we dive into our 3 secrets, let's reacquaint you with Dr. Audrey and Sean and introduce you to our 3rd guest this week, Stuart Sandeman.
Dr Audrey TangI'm Dr. Audrey Tang. I'm a chartered psychologist with the British Psychological Society. I'm also a business author. My area of research was on emotional labor, which is the presentation of certain behaviors and emotions that go alongside the technical aspects of your jobs.
Sean TolramOkay, so I'm Sean. Um, I'm the head of mindfulness at HSBC Bank, and, um, we're trying to embed mindful ways of working across the organization so that we can help employees to build happy, healthy, and successful careers.
Al ElliottWe are thrilled to welcome to the podcast Stuart Sandeman, the voice of a god. You're gonna love this. Stuart's a Radio 1 DJ and host of the depression sessions, as I mentioned. His book Breathe In, Breathe Out is a Sunday Times bestseller, and he's the founder of BreathPod, which is a London-based practice that offers group or one-to-one breathing workshops. Let's go meet Stuart.
Stuart SandemanI founded a company called BreathPod, and BreathPod is really about giving people the tools to empower themselves. Um, and a big tool that I use is breathing.
Al ElliottLast week, we explored how mindfulness can help us manage emotions and stay present during stressful periods, go back and listen to that because it's really, really important. I think it gives you a really good basis for this episode, but there are no rules here. So if you do want to listen to this one first, absolutely fine. All we're saying is that it'll probably make a little bit more sense if you go and listen to part 1 first. This week we're continuing the theme of individual wellbeing, but broadening the conversation to talk about mental fitness more generally and how you can stay festive not frosty this holiday season. With that in mind, let's start at the beginning. What is mental fitness? We asked Dr. Audrey.
Dr Audrey TangWell, we like using the term fitness rather than health in general, because health sounds very— that's what it is— static. That's all you're getting. Whereas fitness, we understand that to be something that can change. If we work at it, we get better at it. So you'll find a lot of mental health professionals are now using the term fitness rather than health, because it reminds us that mental health is something we need to keep working at, emotional health, resilience. We need to keep building that muscle, as it were. We need to keep actively seeking it. I talked about this in an academic paper I wrote for the WHO, but also the best analogy or the best description I would give you is from Martin Seligman, the founder of positive psychology. When I first came across him, he was writing about depression. I was in psychology A-level, and he talked about learned helplessness because that was his original area of research. But he said, before he founded positive psychology, I used to think that I could take depression and fear and anger away from a patient, and then I would get a happy patient. I didn't, I got an empty one. And that's because the skills of thriving are different to the skills of minimizing sadness.
Al ElliottSo now we know what mental fitness is, Let's just dive into a little bit more about how we can build our mental fitness levels.
Sean TolramThere's a massive individual responsibility, and I think that's an area that we don't talk about enough. And certainly in my experience, sometimes even when you give people the freedom and the autonomy and everything that they need to look after themselves and create the environment that they need, sometimes they still find it difficult. Because of, you know, the ingrained behaviors and beliefs that we've built up over decades of being in the working world, it can sometimes even be difficult for us as individuals to look after ourselves. And you even think, you know, if you set your to-do list for the day and by 3 PM, let's say you're working a normal 9 to 5, by 3 PM you've completed your to-do list, most people will then fill the next 2 hours with more things. If I said I was going to use those 2 hours to sit and reflect on everything that I've done and everything that I want to do, some people would, would think that's crazy. They think, what are you doing? You're wasting time. You're being lazy. So it's kind of changing that ingrained mindset that we have within us to really think about, okay, how has the world changed? Because it has changed significantly. How has the world of work changed? What are the demands on our brain in today's world, and how do we best look after our brain?
Leanne ElliottI think Sean's advice is particularly important for younger people in the workforce because once a habit is made, it's really hard to break. There is a lot of beef around Gen Z when it comes to work ethic. We've seen quiet quitting, lazy girl jobs, talk of snowflakes, not just because the winter season is here. Older people think younger generations don't want to work. I wonder if actually our colleagues joining the workforce are trying to set some healthy boundaries from the start of their career to ensure that their work is sustainable, that work is an aspect of their life but not entangled in their identity. A pretty healthy outlook, actually. Sean shared his experience with stress in his early career and how he needs to shift his mindset to stay mentally fit.
Sean TolramI cared a lot about impressing people. About doing what I thought other people wanted me to do. I would push myself, I would compete with those around me because some of us work in competitive environments. I would try to get, you know, the best end of year rating so I could get the bonus and the pay rise and all of these things. So all of these things that we do to climb the corporate ladder and it was causing me a lot of stress. You know, I didn't burn out or anything, Um, but I was under a sort of a moderate level of stress all the time. Um, that's what, that's what I noticed. And I realized that it's unhealthy to be in that place because when you're stressed, there's various changes that, that go on in your body. You know, you've got adrenaline and cortisol flooding through your veins. You've got blood being diverted away from certain areas to power up the muscles. So, you know, to put you into fight or flight. Your pupils dilate, your hair stands on end. There's all these things. Your breath quickens, your heart rate quickens. And if you're in that state for long periods of time, it can be detrimental for your health because the stress response is designed to work in short bursts. And I realized that. So by implementing principles of mindfulness, I've been able to control those stress levels. But more importantly, it's given me the awareness of how I feel in my environment so that I can make better decisions. So I can decide, okay, for me, I'm gonna spend this 1 hour on reflection, and I'm gonna put that in my calendar and reserve that time. Or, um, okay, maybe for the rest of this week from 4 to 5 PM, I'm gonna reserve that time for a particular thing that I want to do. So just being able to take control of my time. and really think about how I want to use it. I think that has been transformational for me. It's reduced my stress levels and it's made me more effective and more productive in the workplace.
Al ElliottDr. Audrey agrees that sustainability is key. If you don't find time to rest and recover, then your body will find time for you.
Dr Audrey TangSustainability is probably the key implication or the key consequence. If you yourself as the leader are not looking after your own self, There comes a point, I mean, we've heard it, it's an old cliché, if you don't make time to be well, your body will find time to be ill. And the issue there is physical health is not necessarily under our control, and mental and emotional fitness will have an impact on it. If we are working so hard that we're losing sleep, if we're not emotionally sound or emotionally fulfilled or at peace, that can cause us lots of other stressors. If that's affecting our sleep, if that's affecting our digestion, if that's affecting all of the practical physical things, our body's going to respond. And unfortunately, if you're then getting things like high blood pressure, heart attack, stomach ulcers, which are all often precipitated by stressors and mental health issues, you have to almost hand over your health to the medical professionals because your body has got to the point where, with the best will in the world, you still can't manage. So, that's one of the first reasons why, if you don't look after your health, this lack of sustainability will happen to you personally. And if you're not doing the job, who is? Then secondly, if you're also not investing in yourself, that's going to have an impact on everybody else, because it's likely the culture is going to be one of not investing in other people, in which case, other people also will learn not to take care of themselves, and so the vicious circle continues.
Leanne ElliottI've coached leaders who struggle with making time for themselves, time to nurture their own well-being. I mean, let's be honest, I have been one of those leaders. I burnt out, and I burnt out really hard. One of the techniques that I used in my recovery and to maintain my sense of equilibrium since is to map out my time, time to rest and recover. We often focus a lot on the rest or relaxation aspect of this when we think about self-care or building our mental fitness, and, and that's for good reason. You know, relaxing with a good book, watching a film, it does impact our body. It lowers our sympathetic activation, which means our heart rate and blood pressure are lower. But recovery activities can also be important. Things like hobbies, exercise, spending time with friends and family, doing a crossword puzzle, or just something you're good at. Al loves nothing more, and I don't get it, but he loves nothing more than chilling out in the office on a weekend and spending a few hours coding. Don't get it. But then I enjoy spending 3 or 4 hours cooking a Sunday roast.
Al ElliottI don't get that.
Leanne ElliottYou know, these are examples of mastery activities. So they're fun, they're challenging, they bring us joy, they build our confidence, they help us feel like we've achieved something. And that's really important when we're in a role that can sometimes feel never-ending. There's also that added bonus that by focusing our attention on something different helps us to detach from work. There's some really cool research by an organizational psychologist called Professor Sabine Sonnentag. She's an expert in rest and recovery. So Professor Sonnentag has found that relaxation results in more positive affective states. So being calm, being quiet, whereas mastery activities get us excited and alert. So if you're having trouble sleeping, a relaxing activity in the evening is going to be more appropriate. But if you're looking to refocus your attention in a way that perhaps mindfulness does, but you're not quite at the point in time when you're able to practice that effectively, indulging in a mastery activity will have the same effect. It will refocus your attention. It needs to be something that's engaging enough that requires concentration, but not so intense that it prevents us from recharging. As Professor Sonntag puts it, go for where the greatest need is. But whether it is rest or recovery that tickles your cranberries this Christmas, the important thing is to carve out time. That was, that was unintentional actually, carving the turkey. Carve out time to make sure it happens. Dr. Audrey explains more, including how you can let others know when you've decided to take that me time.
Dr Audrey TangBooking time for yourself, as in, in your calendar. So whether that is blocking off lunchtime— so I, I see my dad every Tuesday, he has dialysis, and I take him out for lunch every Tuesday. That's blocked off time. As far as I'm concerned, he's my best client, and, and that's, that's it. That time is non-negotiable. And if we do that, we remind ourselves that the things we care about are as important as all the other people that we're fitting into our calendar. Another lovely thing is not being afraid of the out of office. Now, I just dislike it because sometimes I get a lot of spam after I've had an out of office, but if you use that, what you're actually— and then put the message of, I'm following my own advice, I'm actually taking a break. You're encouraging other people to recognize that self-care is important, so don't be afraid of using the out of office to make a point that you're looking after your own self-care. Another silly thing— well, it's not that silly because there's been very recent research on it. Dr. Laura Giurg has done this research on emailing. If you're emailing, say, at a weekend, because that's what you do and that's fine, put a very simple statement at the top that is, I might be emailing now, but there's no rush to do this. Tell the other person that it's okay not to drop everything over the weekend and respond.
Leanne ElliottOur special guest Stuart Sanderman is a BBC Radio 1 DJ and host of The Decompression Sessions, a show that combines music and helpful advice to help you escape the noise of the world and improve your mental fitness. The relationship between music and emotions has been an area of fascination of research for decades, and, and that's behavioral researchers. If we're talking philosophers, perhaps millennia. I actually saw a quote that Plato— is accredited to Plato, saying that music gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything. As Stuart explains, music is also a great tool for relaxation.
Stuart SandemanNo, I think that's the beautiful thing about music is music— we entrain to the rhythm of music. Now, music has got personal taste too. Depending on what we like and what we feel and what emotion we link to that sound. So, it is personalized, but there's a lot of research now around certain sounds, certain frequencies, certain sound waves that will make us feel a certain way, whether that's for relaxation, whether that is for energy. What I do in the decompression session, I don't go deep into the science of that. I just create nice music that is really interesting to listen to. And usually, the music will fit the show. So if it's a show on confidence, probably a little bit more upbeat. If it's a show, a sleep show, then it's real ambient and stripped back, very, very relaxed music. What happens when we listen to music is it creates that feeling in our body. Our breathing rhythm will start to change and we'll start to feel a certain way and start to relax, or maybe feel like, oh, we've got loads of energy to go and hit the gym or go for a run. So yeah, music plays a big part in how we feel and how that affects our body and mind.
Al ElliottIf you're a leader or a manager, then it's even more important to carve out your own time for rest and recovery. We've just concluded some research at Oblong, which is our consultancy, that has shown that employees believe leaders are more effective, engaging, and inspiring if they invest in their own mental health. It's that kind of old analogy that Léanne uses all the time. You need to put your own oxygen mask on before you try and help others?
Dr Audrey TangWell, business leaders need to invest in their own mental health because actually they're role modeling their behavior to everybody else. If you as a business leader are going around saying, oh, well, we care about your wellbeing, but perhaps you're actually burning the candle at both ends, or perhaps your actions aren't matching up with what you're saying, that can be very problematic for everybody else. Organizations are quite organic in the way that they respond, and they can often— teams can often take on the personality of the leader. If a team is very, very stressed, very snappy, it's creating a toxic environment, we do kind of have to look a little bit further up and see what are the demands coming downwards. So, the leader is well-placed to understand their own emotional demands and what they're placing on everybody else to some extent, and therefore need to role model their own looking after their own health. However, the other reason why leaders need to invest is because they are in the position to make changes. They're also in the position to recognize when something's going wrong, because so often we go to the workplace and we do everything, we work hard, we want to get praised, we want to do well, we want to improve ourselves, and we might be pushing ourselves to the point where we're struggling to cope. And when you're in the situation, you can't see it, and you also may not know where you can reach out to help. So the leader has an extra responsibility to recognise and put in not only ways to perhaps change the reasons for that stress in the first place, but to support that individual who's going through all of those issues.
Al ElliottDr. Audrey had some advice for those leaders, maybe a word of warning for people who may be inclined to brush off this importance of investing in mental fitness and the needs of our emerging workforce.
Dr Audrey TangWhen it comes to Gen Z, the problem is for organizations is if they are not understanding this and they're just writing people off as, oh, you're entitled or you're not capable, then they're not even going to get that mindset. They're going to have a brain drain and they're not going to get that mindset making decisions at the higher level because they will never— the Gen Z employees will never reach there because they're just going to say, do you know what? I'm not going to be part of this, and they'll leave. And so, organizations, again, it's that sustainability. They're not doing themselves any favors by not listening and learning from Gen Z. Just because you're asking somebody what their needs are doesn't mean that you're going to have to fulfill all of them. I think we have this weird kind of belief that if we ask someone what they want, we suddenly have to give it to them. That's not true. But we open a dialogue and we open a conversation. The number of times I've had young people talking about mental health on my radio show, and I've, I've asked them, well, what one thing can we do? They've all said the same thing: listen to us. Listen to us. Don't, don't advise us. Don't tell us. Just, just listen. Because if you listen, then you can form some sort of negotiation, and you might have ideas that they didn't have. They might have ideas that you didn't have. It's, it's not about one thing is right or the other thing is wrong. It's about being open and not living in our own echo chambers for both sides. So, communicate and speak to them and ask them, what are the issues? It's the same thing that I say to any generation. If you're leaving a workplace and you're not happy, give the exit interview, because even though you may not be able to do anything for you, what you can do is at least alert the organization to the things that you've been struggling with, so they may be able to put in changes for the next lot of employees or the people who are still there.
Al ElliottHappily, Sean has already seen this shift in HSBC.
Sean TolramWhat we're finding is that the conversation about mental health and how the brain works and what we— what needs we have as human beings, that's becoming a bit more normal. And when we talk about these things, particularly in the boardroom, it's not an unusual thing now. So it's something that we discuss, you know, we've got stats to back up the work that we're doing. So it's becoming something that's more real and more tangible rather than something that's theoretical and may or may not be useful. And so that's the biggest difference that I've seen. Um, and I'm being called to do, um, sessions for lots senior management teams, so the top people in the organization. And we are seeing now that there is that recognition at the top that it is important. And, you know, even if those people at that level don't do mindfulness, what I really like is that they can see how other people might benefit. And they can think, okay, I don't do mindfulness, but I'm going to support it because I can see that all of these people are getting something out of it. So For me, that, that's the shift, and, and I think that that's a really positive thing which I want to see more of.
Leanne ElliottDid you know that the UK's number one management podcast— that's us, by the way— and the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?
Al ElliottWe actually have a lot in common. We both use behavioral science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)And 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good-looking.
Al ElliottAnd you're not gonna say which. Phil, host of Nudge, UK's number one marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in threes—
Leanne Elliottthe HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless, seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil.
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Uh, we've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioural science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff, and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.
Leanne ElliottIt is, it's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that will be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make beer taste better?
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)It can.
Leanne ElliottAnd are we all just status-seeking monkeys?
Dr Audrey TangI am.
Al ElliottGo and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts, but make sure—
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back.
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Definitely come back, because Nudge isn't as good as this, so come back.
Al ElliottI'll cut that out.
midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge)Keep that in.
Leanne ElliottSo that is our first secret, rest and recovery. But once we're relaxed like a well-baked fruitcake, what What's next? Our second secret to staying calm this Christmas is reflection. So reflective practice in psychology is fundamentally about consciously thinking about and analysing what you do. So it's a key aspect of growth, of learning, and it's about critically analysing our actions and experiences to foster that development. By engaging in this type of practice, we can better understand our thoughts, our emotions, and behaviours That in turn encourages self-awareness, emotional intelligence, problem-solving skills, and that in turn can build our psychological capital, which is our levels of self-efficacy, hope, optimism, and resilience. Put more simply, reflecting on how we overcame challenges in the past gives us confidence that we can do it again in the future. Psychological capital is a valuable resource in building a positive psychological state, and that has an impact on our well-being and overall life and work satisfaction. Sean is an advocate for reflection, explaining that it not only helps us to internalise and process events but identify opportunities for the future.
Sean TolramOne thing that I think is really important is to give yourself time to digest the events that have happened throughout the day or throughout the week, because in many instances we, we go forward in a state of autopilot. as humans, we're very resilient. We'll get our heads down, we'll plow through the work, and we'll just, we'll just keep going and going and going. Sometimes we go too fast, and we end up going very fast but going round in circles. So by taking that time, it allows us to slow down so that we can then move slower but in a straight line. That's kind of the way I describe it. So in that time, reflecting on What's gone well, what hasn't gone well, any opportunities that might have presented themselves. And sometimes once you give your brain that space, you can come up with ideas and insights that you wouldn't have had before. You know, like people have shower moments. They say, I was in the shower and I solved this problem, or they wake up the next morning and, and they've got the answer. It's because when your brain is working hard and you're in a state of fight or flight, it's very difficult to access your higher brain function because your resources are going towards powering fight or flight mode. But when you allow your brain to calm down, to slow down, it then gives you better access to your higher brain function so that you can come up with these ideas and you can be more creative and innovative and you can make connections that you wouldn't otherwise have made. So that's what I use the time for. And I always find That at the end of it, I look at my notepad and I've got 4 or 5 ideas that I wouldn't have had otherwise.
Al ElliottAs a chartered psychologist and leadership trainer, Dr. Audrey also believes that reflective practice is a powerful tool when it comes to building capability and mental fitness. Her books, which are The Leader's Guide to Mindfulness, The Leader's Guide to Resilience, and The Leader's Guide to Wellbeing, are packed with practical advice, including some incredible frameworks to facilitate this reflective practice. I wanted to know if she had any particular favorites across the books, or some that may be a good place for people to start when they're on their journey to building mental fitness?
Dr Audrey TangMy favorite is the Wellbeing Wheel. Now that most people know it as the Wellbeing Wheel, I like to use that for goal setting. But it's not just used for that. You can use that for a project that you've got to do. Or you can use that for finding out your ideal life or thinking about that. And I'm just going to give you a quick demo of the Wellbeing Wheel here. It's You have a circle and you fill it with the things that make your ideal life, but you tell me the size of the pies. So, for example, if family comes into that, not just ideal life, it might be just your goal, whatever your goal is. So, say it's ideal life, family. It might be career, but maybe career is more important than family. That's okay. It's okay. It might be money, but maybe money is not so important. Or it might be exercise, and maybe exercise isn't so important. And the reason I love this is you are telling me what your priorities are. If this person were to say, well, why is my life out of balance? Then the answer will be, well, probably because you haven't spent enough time with your family or exercising. And then the reason why you create the segments of your own size in terms of your priorities, they might say, well, family's 3 or 4, exercise is only 1 or 2, so maybe I need to work on exercise. But then you as the coach can say, well, actually, no, exercise is a lot smaller smaller than family. So maybe you'll feel better because this is a much more important aspect of your life if you see what you can do to notch family up one.
Al ElliottStuart agrees that reflective practice is an excellent way of building self-awareness and managing our emotions and understanding what he calls our lowercase trauma. Here's Stuart to explain a bit more about this lowercase trauma.
Stuart SandemanWhen we think of the word trauma, we often think of the big T, the PTSD, Somebody coming back from war or somebody who has experienced some sort of abuse or somebody who's gone through grief or a real impactful challenge. When I talk about little t, I'm really looking at maybe the things that we don't think are really affecting us, but they are. And that might be told by a teacher when they're younger that they're not good enough or something that we start to create this belief around ourselves that we play out as an adult. And we still see that play out in the workplace. So although it's little t, for me, it's just as impactful, especially when we see it in the workplace and we see it with so, so many people. And we all have these, we all have these experiences, negative tapes, I often call them, thought patterns that we have that I call little t because it's maybe less obvious. It's less You think, well, I'm okay. This isn't maybe a thing that's impacting me, but it really is. And it sits in that more therapeutic space and understanding ourselves better. Because once we get better at understanding ourselves and we have more awareness of what makes us do the things we do, we then can understand why we're reactive in certain situations, which is really, really important in a workplace. Instead of being reactive, instead of that react and to stress, triggering something or a way of being with your team or a decision that you have to make in that moment, instead of being more responsive, being able to find that calm within the eye of the storm and feeling that real sense of calmness, even when there's chaos around you. And to manage that and understand that, we need to understand what makes us us and what is triggering us in stressful situations, which is where that little T concept comes in.
Leanne ElliottBut of course, reflective practice and positive thinking isn't a magic wand. And if we're not careful, we may creep into the world of toxic positivity. So toxic positivity is caused by an excessive and ineffective emphasis on positive outcomes and experiences. And that can often lead to the dismissal of genuine feelings of sadness, distress, or even suffering. It can actually be really harmful as it discourages people from acknowledging and dealing with their emotions. Toxic positivity overlooks the complexity of our feelings as humans and the value of navigating through the full range of emotions for psychological health. Dr. Audrey explains more, giving the advice, in some circumstances, rather than staying positive, stay curious.
Dr Audrey TangI would say the biggest piece of advice for anybody, whether this is an organization or whether this is an individual, if you are in that place of fear or sadness or anger, or perhaps people are off sick, or it's a toxic environment, toxic workplace, you cannot jump from that spot to happy and joyful and thriving just by thinking, I'm gonna be positive and I'm gonna do happy things. It doesn't doesn't work that way. So I come back to Martin Seligman. He says if you can minimize the sadness, you get this emptiness, you get this neutrality. If you cannot minimize the sadness, use a state of curiosity. Ask yourself, why am I feeling as I do? What can I do? Who can I ask for help? How has it worked for me before where I've been able to feel better? And if you use the state of curiosity, That bridges the gap between that sadness and toxicity or negativity and happiness enough where you can actually start to take healthy steps forward. And this works for individuals, this works for organisations.
Al ElliottIt's tough to stay positive when managing a business, but that's the job. You are the buffer between business problems and employees. You shouldn't be transferring your issues down the chain. It should be the other way round. This is why your own resilience is absolutely key when managing and leading teams.
Leanne ElliottSo that is our second secret, reflection.
Al ElliottSo our third practical tip to make sure you have a holly jolly Christmas is to— I am, I don't know whether I love or hate these notes, Lee. To have a holly jolly Christmas is to breathe. So let's hear from my guest Stuart Sandeman on how he found breathing and the impact has had in his well-being and mental fitness.
Stuart SandemanGot into breathing actually through grief. My girlfriend was diagnosed with terminal cancer and passed away. And it was a really challenging time, as you can imagine. And I didn't find breathing at that time. I didn't really have many coping mechanisms. But when she passed away, one thing that amazing that happened, I took my mom for Mother's Day to a breathing class. That's as far as I thought about breathing. I'd spent my life too busy to breathe. I'd been all— before my music, I worked in finance. And so I'd kind of jumped from a few things. Before that, I was quite heavily involved in sport. When my girlfriend passed away and I was in a bad headspace, breathing— I came across breathing. Sounds so simple, that thing we do all day, every day. And it literally changed my whole outlook. It was like the light bulb switched on. I had a very powerful experience. I felt like the weight of grief was pulled off me, but it also felt like my girlfriend was there holding my hand saying, this is exactly where you need to be, which is very strange, very weird, very wonderful, very helpful, but also left me with more questions than answers. So that's where I set off on this journey around breathing and breath. Like, what just happened in this session? Why haven't I been looking at breathing before? If this is the one thing that keeps us alive, Why was I not looking at breathing as a tool to manage myself throughout my life, whether that was sport, whether that was creatively with music, whether that was being in a busy office when I worked in finance? So that's what got me into breath and breathing. And I think for many practitioners or many people, when you find something that impacts you so heavily and you find something that helps you transform, so much because it wasn't just grief. That was like the onion layer that peeled off. I felt like obviously worked through grief, but then my sleep got better, my energy improved. I started to realize deeper aspects of myself, the way I've been living, the way I've been thinking, the way I've been operating, the reactive states that I was in, my deeper kind of belief systems from my past. So I start to really kind of uncover And change in a positive way.
Al ElliottWhen I met Stuart, I had so many questions, but I'd start with the obvious. We all breathe, but clearly not effectively. So what are we doing wrong? Why are we not getting the effects that you're getting from breathing?
Stuart SandemanThere's a multitude of different things. And the one thing that I think is very interesting that's often overlooked is When we go through an emotional experience, we hold our breath. Now, the natural flow of emotion means our breath will start to move when we emote. We laugh, our breath kind of judders. When we cry, does the same. But we unconsciously or consciously hold our breath to stop the natural flow of emotion. So that might be holding our breath to stop laughter because we shouldn't find something funny. We hold our breath. Or maybe if you're at work and you've had some upsetting news, but you're in front of your team and you're trying to hold it together and you can feel the tears start to flow, well, we'll hold our breath back to stop the tears flowing. So, in essence, what we do is we contract our breathing muscles. So, we tense our body. And this can be very minute or little contractions in our breathing. Our breathing changes. And because our breathing is sending a signal to our brain about our environment, all of a sudden we're sending a stressful signal to our brain. So we can have different experiences where we're not allowing ourselves to fully feel because it's not appropriate, or maybe our mind says it's not safe to feel this right now, and our breathing contracts. And then we can get stuck in these stressful breathing patterns, or archetypes is what I call them in the book. We have different breathing archetypes. And because the breathing rhythm and rate and depth at which we breathe at will trigger us into feel certain ways, then when we're stuck in these breathing archetypes, you'll find that people with a similar archetype will maybe feel the same things throughout the day. That might be the anxious breather, the stressful chest breather, and it might even be the breath grabber I talk about, which is somebody that's kind of really breathing a lot too fast and they might button in conversations, et cetera. So there's all these different archetypes that we can And it will link to breathing and dysfunctional breathing patterns.
Al ElliottThe way we feel affects the way we breathe. But does that mean we can actually evoke an emotion by breathing a particular way?
Stuart SandemanWhat I'd— the way I usually explain it is thinking happens in our mind. We know that. And feeling happens in our body, driven by our breathing pattern. And when our thinking and feeling match, that creates our state of being. So if we're saying my state of being is anxiety, well, that anxiety is a product of anxious thinking, and our breathing pattern will match. So there's 2 ways to break that loop. We could change our thoughts, which many practices try to do. A lot of our thoughts are deeply ingrained habitual thinking, so it's quite hard. But if we jump in and override our breathing pattern, We will send— it's almost like this feedback loop. Thinking a thought, our breathing is matching the thought. But if we override and take control of our breath, then we are skewing that signal. So even if the mind's saying, I'm feeling really stressed, overwhelmed, I'm really anxious, or I'm really nervous, then our breathing starts to change. We might be holding our breath in tight, we might be breathing too fast, we might have this change in rhythm. So if we take control of that, our breath in that moment, we'll send a new signal back to our brain. So we're almost taking control of how we feel in any moment. So exactly that, we can start to really change the way we feel in the moment. And where I find it very interesting is if our breathing in the moment triggers us to feel a certain way, and then that feeling, well, our feelings that last a week, We call a mood. A mood that starts to last a couple of months, we see as a temperament. A temperament that lasts years, we see as our personality. So we can start and see that all these parts of ourselves, we might think that, oh, I'm just an anxious person. And yes, we can have anxiety disorders and things, but for many people, it's because they felt a certain feeling and they've been breathing a certain way for so long. that they just think it's part of who they are. And a lot of the work that I do and help people through is trying to break through some of that patterning. Now, that would be thought patterns for sure, which are often harder and more stubborn to change. But when we start working with the breath, it's kind of like the, the key to the back door where we can start moving through some of these patterns.
Leanne ElliottStuart's social media is packed with breathing exercises that will help you to regulate breathing, retrain your mind, and help build your mental fitness. We will leave some links in the show notes for you. There is one really simple breathing exercise that I use myself and with my coaching clients, actually. It's called the 7-4-8 method. So basically, you breathe in for a count of 7, hold your breath for a count of 4, and exhale for a count of 8, and repeat that pattern for about a minute. I've found it's helped me in situations where I can feel my anxiety kicking in. I'm not a big fan of flying, so I tend to do that during takeoff. My heart rate's going a bit. It just helps me to regulate my breathing and bring my heart rate down. And the clients that I've worked with have said that just by going through that process helps them to refocus, particularly if they're feeling overwhelmed. They find they're focusing on the counting and the breathing rather than everything else that's going on. Don't do it for too long though, um, just to warn you, anything more than a couple of minutes, you might feel a little lightheaded.
Al ElliottSo that's our 3rd practical tip to inhale the joy and exhale the stress this Christmas, just to breathe. If you're a business owner or a leader and you're thinking, yeah, this sounds good, I'd like to introduce some mindfulness or mental fitness at work in January, that is amazing, and we're genuinely behind you on this, but it does come with a few words of warning.
Leanne ElliottYeah, I mean, there is often often a debate about who's responsible for well-being. Is it the individual or is it the organization? And inevitably it's both. But as Dr. Audrey explains, investing in our own mental fitness, our own well-being, is pretty useless if we're not supported with our well-being at work.
Dr Audrey TangWhenever people go off sick with stress, burnout, rust out, all of those mental health issues, what happens is organizations up their well-being interventions. They Bring me in. They do lunchtime yoga. They get things like gym cards or restaurant cards and so on. It's all about the individual. However, if I were to go to work and fall down a hole, health and safety would not give me lessons on how to walk around a hole. They would not bring in training about how to get out of a hole. They, they would fix the hole. And this is the whole point that wellbeing interventions, wellbeing incentives, which aren't quite as good as interventions, and approaches to wellbeing, they really focus on the individual. But what we need to be looking at is the system and the causes of the stress in the same way as you would take a health and safety practical approach to stopping the causes of physical injury.
Leanne ElliottSo those are our 3 secrets for keeping calm this Christmas. Find time to invest in rest and recovery, find time to engage in some reflective practice, and if all else fails, just remember to breathe. Now, we have tried to lighten this episode with some silly Christmas-based puns here and there, but we have also covered some pretty heavy themes. If you are struggling with your mental health If you are feeling in distress or despair, if you need to talk to somebody, we would always recommend that you contact the Samaritans. We will leave the telephone number and the website in the show notes. Equally, check out the Mind website. There are some awesome resources on there to help people who need support with their mental health at this time of year. And finally, if there is anything else that's come up in this episode, any questions, any concerns, you can always get in touch with us directly at Truth truth and lies. Our email is in the show notes.
Al ElliottNice, Leanne, nice. And also just a quick note that Samaritans is a UK-based charity, but I believe is available on email, um, and possibly even text message or web chat. So you, even if you're not in the UK, you can, you can contact the Samaritans in confidence. But I'm hoping that, um, for most of us, we're gonna be able to manage the stress a little bit better this Christmas. I'm hoping that, um, we keep talking about Uncle What Was His Name, Kevin. Uncle Kevin, who gets drunk and starts being a bit racist and you have to bite your tongue. Anyway, so next week, part 1 of our predictions episode. We have brought in some incredible guests.
Leanne ElliottLet's give some teases. So we'll have some returning guests, some guests who've been on the podcast before with brand new insights, some pretty awesome CEOs to bring their two pennies worth. Oh, me, I'll be there. Hi.
Al ElliottAnd I'll be there too. So we'll see you next week.
Dr Audrey TangBye-bye.
Al ElliottLovely. I look down quite a bit on that, but there's not much I can do.
Leanne ElliottFuck it.
Al ElliottYeah, there's only gonna be 8 people watching this YouTube video, so
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