Episode 18 · 29 December 2022 · 45:41
2023 People & Culture Predictions: Key Trends for Leaders (Part 1 of 2)
2023 People & Culture Predictions: Key Trends for Leaders (Part 1 of 2)
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Festive catch-up and intro
Prediction 1: The fight for talent continues, but the strategy shifts
Prediction 1 summary: Focus on perfecting recruitment
Prediction 2: From attracting talent to retaining it
Prediction 4: Professional development takes centre stage
Prediction 5: Al's AI coaching prediction
Prediction 6: The rise of cathartic coaching
Show notes
2023 People & Culture Predictions: Key Trends for Leaders (Part 1 of 2)
Episode 18 — Al and Leanne look ahead to 2023, sharing their predictions for the year ahead in People & Culture. In part 1 of 2, they cover the shifting fight for talent, the rise of internal mobility, why AI coaching might be closer than you think, and the growing need for cathartic coaching.
As they wrap up a turbulent 2022, Al and Leanne turn their attention to the year ahead. What will actually change in the world of work? And what's just more of the same with a fresh coat of paint?
With Leanne's psychologist's lens and Al's business-owner pragmatism, they make six bold predictions — from the end of the salary bidding war to the arrival of AI-powered coaching. No crystal balls, just evidence, experience, and a healthy dose of honest disagreement.
🎙️ The Predictions So Far
1. The fight for talent continues — but the strategy shifts 2022 was a bidding war. Salaries inflated, counteroffers flew, and candidates held all the cards. Leanne predicts 2023 will be different: a more sustainable, competency-based approach. Candidates will be more cautious, and organisations will need to perfect their recruitment process rather than just throw money at the problem.
2. From attracting talent to retaining it Following on from prediction 1, Leanne argues the focus will shift to keeping the people you already have. Internal talent pools, development pathways, and retention strategies will matter more than ever — particularly for early-career employees who are developmentally primed to move on.
3. Treating people like a market Al's prediction: organisations should apply the same rigour to understanding why people say yes — or no — to roles as they do to understanding why customers buy. Sales and marketing have done this for years. Why not people?
4. Professional development takes centre stage With psychosocial risks and wellbeing high on the agenda, Leanne predicts professional development will become the People & Culture arena to watch. It's not just about skills — it's about safety, growth, and showing people they matter.
5. AI coaching is coming Al's slightly out-there prediction: AI-powered coaching tools will start making inroads. Not replacing human coaches, but helping people reflect, build reflective practice, and access support at scale. Think ChatGPT, but for your career.
6. The rise of cathartic coaching Sometimes you don't need a coach to fix a problem — you need someone to listen. Leanne predicts more organisations will invest in coaching that's about navigating feelings, thoughts, and tough moments, not just performance targets.
💡 Key Takeaways from Part 1
- The salary war is over. Sustainable, competency-based hiring will replace the bidding war of 2022.
- Retention is the new attraction. Internal mobility and development will be the battleground.
- AI won't replace coaches — yet. But it will make reflective practice more accessible.
- Sometimes people just need to be heard. Cathartic coaching is about listening, not fixing.
🔮 What's Coming in Part 2
Al and Leanne have more predictions in the tank. Part 2 lands in the first week of January — and if history is anything to go by, there may be a bonus prediction or two.
Connect With Us
Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect
Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14
Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Full transcript
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Al ElliottThe dirty little secret is that most businesses think they know their customers. They have the data, the records, the history, but it's scattered across 3 teams and 4 systems. And in our case, it's about 216,000 spreadsheets, which means nobody can actually use it.
Leanne ElliottWhat you should be doing is using HubSpot, because why? HubSpot connects it all— every interaction, every support ticket, every conversation— into one platform every team can work from. So when sales talks to a customer, marketing already knows the full story. And when you know more, you grow more.
Al ElliottNice. Check out hopspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses. Just by someone saying that makes you really reflect on what's happened to you.
Leanne ElliottHello and welcome back to the Truth, Lies and Workplace Culture podcast. Welcome back to Truth, Lies and Work, the podcast where we help business leaders, business owners, and anyone who's interested unpick the somewhat complicated world of people and culture. My name is Leanne. I'm a business psychologist.
Al ElliottMy name is Al and I'm a business owner.
Leanne ElliottAnd welcome back. I hope you had a lovely Christmas.
Al ElliottYeah. What did you get up to? Did you eat too much? We all, we all do that, don't we? Eat too much, drink too much, and, um, watch too many films. I've watched a lot. I think we've watched more films in the last, or movies, sorry for those across the pond, um, in the last, in the last like 5 days than we have in the last 5 months.
Leanne ElliottWe have. We have. We've watched, we watched some good ones, some bad ones, some okay ones, lots of Christmas ones.
Al ElliottThey, they're going in the bad category, I think. Leanne has this thing where she, where she loves to jump on these films where in minute 4, you know exactly what's gonna happen. Do you remember the time we sat and watched Nativity when we were in Wales?
Leanne ElliottThat was a really good film. I stand by that.
Al ElliottNo.
Leanne ElliottNo.
Al ElliottNo. I'm not, I'm not necessarily dissing Nativity, but I did say to you, I said, half, maybe about 3 quarters of the way through, I said, I read this book. And it's called Nobody Wants to Read Your Shit by Pressman. Everyone's shouting it out. I can't remember his name. And, and basically it says that, that, that the formula for films is that minute 1:05 is called the, the place we, the worst place or the, what, that you can't get back from. There's a much better name than that. We paused Nativity at this point, and I said, this is exactly what the point which he's talking about. Paused it. What timestamp was it?
Leanne Elliott1:05. It was a beautiful moment. If you haven't seen The Nativity, and you might not have if you are listening from If you're not in the UK, because it is a very British film, lots of classic British actors and actresses in it. It is funny. It is funny. Give it a watch. I'm sure it'll be on Netflix or another legal streaming platform.
Al ElliottYeah, maybe give Nativity 2 and 3 a bit of a miss.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottSo talking of giving things a miss, we are moving away from our slightly different— from our format we've been producing up to now, which is interviews. It's just you and me today, Leah, isn't it?
Leanne ElliottIt is.
Al ElliottAnd we're gonna be talking about the predictions, um, which we think are gonna happen, or actually, that's, that's the whole point of prediction. That's what a prediction means, Al. We're gonna be thinking about predictions for culture, workplace culture, and people in 2023. It'll be interesting to come back to this, and I think we should in December and see how much of this has actually happened, because some of these are a bit crazy.
Leanne ElliottThat would be really interesting, actually, to see what does, what does come true.
Al ElliottYeah. And then I can always go back and edit this episode And take out the ones that didn't come true, and then we look like we've made all of them come true.
Leanne ElliottSure. I'm not sure it's very honest, but yeah, okay. If it makes me look good, I'm in.
Al ElliottOkay, so as you might imagine, um, in terms of the actual people and the science behind it, Leanne knows far more than I do. I know about practical application. Um, my background's marketing and business ownership. Leanne's background is purely people. She is a scientist. She is amazing. So a lot of these— so Leanne's got far more predictions than I, and you will also hear that Leanne's predictions are probably a little bit more scientific and probably a lot more accurate because mine are a little bit ridiculous. But so we'll try and— we'll try and get it so that we are alternating a little bit. But do you wanna kick off with your first 2?
Leanne ElliottYes.
Al ElliottYes.
Leanne ElliottGood.
Al ElliottYou see, well, because you see, you've got more than me. So I'm thinking get 2 of yours, then I'll slot one of mine in.
Leanne ElliottWe're not gonna 2-part this though.
Al ElliottWe are gonna 2-part this, but again, you've got— you've got loads more than me.
Leanne ElliottFair enough. Fair enough. 2023. I, I don't know about you, listener, but I'm kind of— I've got one eye on 2023 thinking, yes, come on, bring it on, and one going, oh shit, what's, what's gonna happen this year? Honestly, since 20— Do you remember 2019? Those glorious days where everything just seemed to be stable and lovely and normal?
Al ElliottEverything just worked.
Leanne ElliottEverything just seemed to work. And I'm sure that's rose-tinted glasses looking back, but the last, the last 3 years have seen some work.
Al ElliottYeah, we've gone through a fair amount. And yeah, I think you can see that a lot in the trends that Leanne's gonna, gonna talk about. Um, I know that you, listener, have probably got that in your business. You've seen some massive changes in the last sort of 18 months in terms of people, culture, expectations, etc., etc. Um, so what's, what's your first prediction there, Leanne?
Leanne ElliottMy first prediction is that the fight for talent will continue, but I think the strategy will shift.
Al ElliottHmm.
Leanne ElliottAnd I think it's gonna shift in a way that is more sustainable and in a way that is more competency-based. So let, let me just, gimme some context behind this thinking.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne Elliott2022, it was a bidding war for talent. Salaries were going up. We were hearing of clients who were having people like pull out after they signed that contract because they had a counteroffer for more money. It was it was a war for talent, not than a fight. It was a war for talent. But I think I think that's understandable given you know the the great resignation, the big shifts that we saw post pandemic. I think there is going to be a correction, and I think. Whereas the power has very much been with a candidate, in particularly the latter end of 2022. I think that's gonna correct itself and shift a little bit more towards business owners. And I think as well, you know, with the economic downturn that is being predicted, I think people are gonna start to be a bit more cautious, a bit more careful around—
Al ElliottWhen you say people are a bit more cautious, you mean that people applying for jobs, employees?
Leanne ElliottYes, yeah, candidates, employees, gonna be a bit more cautious, maybe a bit more, I don't know, I guess a bit more motivation to stay put. And again, I come back to this correction, and this is what Aaron said on our podcast when talking about the, the tech downturn, when we're talking about the Twitter layoffs. And I think that's a really valid point in so many different areas, is that, you know, during the pandemic, turnover was very, very low because people understandably weren't sure about how they'd find another job or what that would look like. Um, so I think really we just saw that correction this year. I think the Great Resignation was really just the normal amount of turnover we would have seen during the pandemic, um, kind of catch up and all happen at once. But I think at the same time, there's gonna— I think there's gonna be a pushback from HR leaders, from people and culture practitioners to managers saying, what do you actually need in a person in terms of their skills, their knowledge, their competencies, their abilities to actually do this job? Let's not dream that we can now go around recruiting superstars for every single role. What do you actually need in a person to do this job? So I think we're going to see a massive increase in job analysis, which is understanding the actual role that is needed within a business to contribute positively. I think we're going to see an uptick in more data-led recruitment strategies. Um, and I think as well, I saw a statistic, I think it was Gartner, that it was like 36% of recruiters and HR leaders were saying that currently they didn't think their recruitment strategy was sufficient in that it was working. We've talked about this before on the podcast. Go back and listen if you're interested. Recruitment is science. It's the most sciency thing we can do in people and culture. If you want something tangible to, to get your, get your arms around, it's recruitment. Um, so I think we're going to see a lot more data-led recruitment, much more use of psychometrics, and I think as well, critically, we're going to see organizations Engaging more in rolling recruitment. So organisations are gonna always be actively recruiting.
Al ElliottYeah, you've been a big proponent of internal recruitment or internal talent pools, which, if I've understood what it means, is that you, like you say, you're rolling recruitment and then you get someone who's really good and go, look, we've not got a position for you, but I'm gonna work really hard to find a position for you, rather than recruiting when you actually need it.
Leanne ElliottYeah, and not just internally, externally as well. I think particularly if you have roles within your business that are a constant. You're always going to have that role in your business, um, that typically have a higher turnover. So probably roles that are lower down in terms of, of salary and hierarchy, um, where you're always going to need people in it. So for example, I don't know, like, um, if you're an accountancy firm working, then maybe your kind of entry-level accountants, um, or your bookkeepers or whatever you call them, um, you're always gonna have that role in your business and you're typically going to see a higher turnover.
Al ElliottYeah.
Leanne Elliottturnover, because these people are, you know, at the early stage of their career, and developmentally, they're going to move every 2 to 5 years. And this isn't a new thing. You know, call centres use this a lot typically because of the high turnover rates. So, I think we're going to see businesses engage much more in rolling recruitment. And as I said, creating these talent pools. So, we've filled all the roles, but you've met every standard we needed you to. We'd love to keep your, your name on record, and the minute we have a position, would you be interested in us contacting you? Um, I've done that with clients before. It works really well, massively reduces your, your time to fill in the future. Um, I think it's just a smart, sustainable way of always, you know, making sure that you've got great people coming into your business.
Al ElliottNow, in a second, I'm gonna ask you to summarise that in one sentence, your prediction. But in the meantime, while you're thinking about that, because I've just sprung that on you, Is that— It's interesting to hear the, a lot of the sort of investment talk where what you're saying there is correction. You're saying that, you know, there's a lot of, and I think what's really interesting is that if you are an investor in any, of any kind, whether it be crypto, equities, whatever, then I don't think there's more of a demonstration of human nature than looking at stocks and shares over a period of time because they don't follow They don't follow the logic. So for example, if we use that analogy, which I don't know a great deal about stocks and shares, but if we say that there's been a bull run recently in terms of salaries, then, you know, you go, well, there's gotta be a correction of that because like in, in every single market there is a correction. God, I, I look at my crypto wallet these days and I know there's definitely been a correction in that.
Leanne ElliottCrying into your gin over Christmas over that one, love, weren't you?
Al ElliottWell, I think a lot before that, but, but anyway, moving away from My, from, from my massive losses in crypto. But I think it is really interesting. So what we're talking about there is there is a supply— this is a supply and demand market, uh, is recruitment. It's as simple as that. There's a supply and demand. And then it felt like there was, there was a retraction in supply, a retraction in demand, therefore the supply. Um, yeah. So therefore what salaries had to go— I had to check it, look over at Leanne and check I was saying it right. So I think it's really interesting to think of it in terms of that. And now we are getting this correction. Now people, you know, who were very bullish on getting a new job 6 months ago might not be quite so confident going into 2023, which can obviously be good. But then, you know, there's, there's ways that you can manage that and make it even better for people to stay in your organization. So do you have a nice succinct summary for us for prediction number 1?
Leanne ElliottI think the fight for talent will continue, but the strategy will shift and there'll be a much bigger focus on perfecting— this isn't really a one-liner, is it?
Al ElliottI like it so far.
Leanne ElliottYou say there's gonna be much more of a focus on perfecting the recruitment process to make sure you're finding the right people for the right role every time. And you know what, if it's the right person and you've got all of the, the science-based recruitment processes behind it And you know that this person is a superstar, or even better, you know this person is, is good enough, but they're really invested in this role in this company, and you need to throw a bit more money at the problem, fine, because you've got the data to back it up. So I think fight for talent will continue. There'll be a slight correction in the balance of power, and I think having an evidence-led recruitment strategy is going to be the big thing of 2023.
Al ElliottNice. Nice. And I'm also enjoying that you're, you're picking up my, my investment analogy there. I quite enjoyed that. So what is your prediction number 2, Leanne?
Leanne ElliottSo following on from prediction number 1, I think 2022, there was a really big focus on the fight for attraction, attracting talent. I think 2023, there's gonna be much more focus on talent retention. So yeah, keeping hold of those people in your business. And I think this is where employee engagement is gonna come in. And I think, you know, we've always talked about how it can be an anxious task for leaders to gather insights from their team. It can be a bit scary in terms of what you're gonna find, and you will find things that you don't wanna hear. That's just the nature of it. You will. But I think in 2022, business leaders were just blindsided by the, the candidate control in terms of the recruitment market. And I think that has left so much anxiety around the uncertainty, the unpredictability— who's leaving now, who's gonna— how hard is it gonna— how long is it gonna take me to find someone to fill this role? I think it's going to be a much more comfortable anxiety to do the work and understand how your employees are really feeling about your business And use that data to make changes to, to support employee engagement and in turn retention. Um, so that I think is going to be a big thing for, for 2023 in terms of collecting data about employees, but importantly focusing on what that data actually means and how it can be applied within your strategy and how the success of any changes you make can be measured. Um, I think that's going to be a really big thing. I'm sure lots of businesses out there already have employee engagement surveys or employee well-being surveys. How is that data used? Are you using that data to inform your strategy? Are you then communicating that back to your teams? This is what we learned, this is— these are the changes we're making. And are you then assessing in 6 months' time the impact of those changes? Um, and I think that is going to be a really Big, big shift is much more data is going to be collected. I think much more data is going to be applied.
Al ElliottYeah, I think what's interesting there is that you've talked about— I mean, did you— I think you mentioned, um, the employee survey that I can— OfficeVibe. I think you mentioned that. And OfficeVibe has definitely felt more like a sticking plaster for a lot of businesses. And it's the same as someone going, oh, my Net Promoter Yeah. It's like, yeah, okay, that's great, but how's your profits? You know, just having a good NPS is not going to necessarily translate to, to, to revenue and to profits and stuff. And I think it's a similar kind of thing. These apps have come out and we're not necessarily like, you know, crapping on these, on these, these apps because some of them are good and it's good the fact that someone is actually measuring this. But what you're saying, if I've understood it, is that it's not enough just to have an engagement survey. You've got to actually collect that information or that data and then create a strategy to do something about that data and then go back and then thirdly, just measure how you're doing 6 months down the line compared to where you were when you first collected that data.
Leanne ElliottYes.
Al ElliottGood. Well, I'm glad we understood. I think, yeah, you're gonna find just, just a little aside, because I'm gonna ask you to summarize that in a second because, and then you're gonna ask me to the same, I'm sure, is what you'll probably find with the way that we both approach things is that I'm gonna be taking things from a tech point of view and a marketing point of view, and this is gonna relate to my next thing. And Leanne's gonna be taking it from a people and a culture point of view, and hopefully we're gonna correct each other and go, hang on a minute, does that actually make sense? So you'll probably hear us both like a bit of back and forth. So can you summarize point prediction number 2 in a couple of sentences?
Leanne ElliottYeah, I think Number 2, that there's going to be a shift in focus from the fight for attracting talent to the fight of retaining talent, and specifically making sure that you are, one, collecting the data, B, applying the data, 3— did I say A, B, C?
Al ElliottYou did. I'm loving it.
Leanne ElliottI'm loving this.
Al ElliottSorry, go ahead. You say, so number 1, number B, and point number 3. You can't say a Roman numeral, can you?
Leanne ElliottCrimbo limbo, man. It messes with your brain. Um, what was I saying? Yes. 1, collect the data. 2, apply the data. 3, measure the impact of the changes made.
Al ElliottLove it. Brilliant. So my number 3, or number 3 prediction is from me. And it's funny because it's very similar to what Leanne was just saying. And we came up with these independently. Um, very similar to what Leanne was just saying, is that I think that marketing and sales departments have got so much knowledge that people recruitment, HR can actually borrow from, and obviously the likewise. But in terms of like, if you think about a business function, the whole idea of marketing is to get, is to get someone to pay attention to you. And the whole point of sales is to get someone to commit to you. Well, that's basically like the job ad and then the actual interview. And I think there's so much information and so much, um, so many skills that marketing and sales have got that we can borrow from. For example, if you've been in marketing, which, um, most of our audience are creative and digital agencies, so they know what marketing's about, they'll know that acquisition and retention is far cheaper to, to keep a customer than it is to find a new one. Um, so there's that strategy which Leanne alluded to just a second ago, and I think marketing have known this for years and years and years. So there's definitely a lot of knowledge transference that could be going on there. The other thing to consider, which marketing, they always, they always put it well. Good marketing teams put a percentage towards branding plays, which obviously now we're hearing the term employer brand much more these days, which again is helping to get that word out and to sort of build this experience that the people are going to have. And the other, and a couple of other things there you mentioned there, data in terms of marketing, we've always used the analytics to determine which advert does well. So what Leanne's saying there is basically what us marketers have been doing from time immemorial is collecting data, seeing what converts, and then iterating on those results. So I mean, that's really, really important. And also I think just being able to adapt to the market conditions. There were times when Google Ads, when Facebook Ads were really, were, were really cheap. Then they became expensive. So what we're saying here is there was a time when you could recruit for a particular position and the salary was X, and now the salary is X times 2. That's the expectation. It's just the market forces. We all know as marketers or business owners who are generating leads, we know that this happens. So why are we surprised it's now happening with people?
Leanne ElliottHmm. Good point. Why are people surprised?
Al ElliottIt's a market.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottIt's market driven and we should, we should understand that. So, I will say—
Leanne ElliottYeah, and I think just to piggyback a little bit on your prediction, if I may, I completely agree, and I had this written down as one of mine, but I think it fits in really nicely as an add-on to yours. I think we're gonna see a lot more investment in employer brand, as you mentioned, but I think also much more increased collaboration between people and culture leaders, HR leaders, and marketing and internal communications teams. I think there is, you know, we're always gonna have this push and pull, like you say, with the market, with supply and demand, with Gen X and Y versus Gen Z. But as Al said there, it's all about the market. And I know we talk about generational differences quite a lot, and this isn't from an us and them perspective. That's the last thing we want to promote. But we've seen so much disruption in the last 20 to 30 years. In terms of the world of work, in terms of the economy, in terms of technology, in terms of globalization, that understandably my experiences as a 16 to 18-year-old, it can be very different to someone who is 16 to 18 from 2019 to 2021, 2022. So yeah, where— whereas we were kind of entering the world of work in the depths of one of the biggest global recessions we've ever seen, where salaries were reduced significantly, where job security wasn't a thing. So you did tend to cling on a little bit, a little bit more. We're used to that, and we're now the people that are in management and leadership positions. So for us, it's hard for us to understand why these expectations are wildly different in terms of salary, in terms of other benefits, in terms of moving on, you know, quite frequently from roles, because— Yeah. You know, the people that have entered the workforce over the last five to ten years have seen a much more stable economy. So I think there is a there is going to be this push and pull between between generations. I think that's something we need to be aware of, something we need to to address in terms of understanding each other more and making that effort to understand each other more. But I think also this this kind of mantra of it's not always about doing more; it's about. Doing better. And I think where we can't do more, where we can't keep increasing salaries, where it's not within, you know, commercial reality to, to meet every demand that an employee is putting on, that's not to say we can't do better with what we've already got. And I think one of the biggest ones for me when we were talking about, um, the cost of living crisis was, you know, a lot of organizations have platforms in place such as perks that mentioned, that will have all sorts of benefits like GP appointments, online counselling, mortgage advice, health and diet advice, so many different, different things that can contribute positively to an employee experience and employee wellbeing. Yet the awareness of these benefits is low, and the number of people accessing these benefits is low. So I think rather than— I think 2022 was like, what else can we throw at the wall to get people to accept this job? It's gonna be, let's just take a little bit of an audit. What have we got in place? What is being used? Are people accessing it? Do they know about it? Role modeling those behaviors. And I think that's gonna be a big thing of, of 2023. Let's not do more, let's do better.
Al ElliottI love it. I love it. And I think what we, what we're basically saying there is that all the different functions of a business can learn from each other, and I hope that they do learn from each other, because sales can definitely learn from customer success. And, you know, and if there's someone who's in charge of, for example, retentions of customers and have to deal with cancellations, well, that's again someone who probably— who is worth speaking to if you are looking for people, if you've got interviewers coming in, or in doing in-house, it's worth finding that out. And then if you think about that, why are you not— and maybe you are— but why are you not calling up those people who have— who you've offered them a job, they've said no, and said, what could we have offered you?
Leanne ElliottYes.
Al ElliottTo make, to make you say yes. And you're not necessarily gonna offer it. It's just how interesting is that gonna be?
Leanne ElliottWhat did my competitor offer you that you said yes to?
Al ElliottWe've been doing that in sales and marketing.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottFor years and years and years. Why are we not doing that with people? So to summarize, and the prediction number 3, which is mine, which is that, that people or the people function and the marketing and sales functions If you don't mind me grouping those together, sorry guys, if you're, if you're, if you're a hardcore salesperson, is that they, those are going to be able to learn so much from each other. And the people, the people function should be speaking more to the marketing and learning what's worked for them. Yeah.
Leanne ElliottAnd again, I think this is just another iteration of something we've already seen. I mean, I've worked with an executive branding firm for years and back in, in the kind of 2015, '16, We were talking about how, you know, the best-performing CFOs are the ones that had become, had turned their organisation, their function into a profit centre more than a cost centre, because they're talking much more commercial, much more sales, they're enabling growth. They're not kind of the people with, you know, holding the purse strings anymore. And that is now just what a CFO does. But 8, 10 years ago, that wasn't what a CFO did. And I think this is just the next iteration that we've already done really successfully. And I think this is a great thing for business leaders. This is things that you already know how to do, we're just extending it. And I think this extension in 2023 is, as you said, Al, people and culture, sales and marketing, and comms working much closer together. Did you know that the UK's number one management podcast— that's us, by the way— and the UK's number one marketing podcast are both on the same podcast network?
Al ElliottWe actually have a We both use behavioral science to help people do better at work.
Leanne ElliottAnd we both had to wrangle Rory Sutherland on an episode.
Al ElliottAnd 2 out of 3 of us are devilishly good looking. And you're not going to say which. Fel, host of Nudge, UK's number 1 marketing podcast. It's brought to you— we need to do this in 3s— the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Leanne ElliottThe audio destination for business professionals.
Al ElliottSeamless. Seamless. Tell us about your latest episode, Phil. We've just done an episode on fake fandom and how New York indie bands are paying agencies to create fake TikTok videos about how much they like their work. And we talk about the behavioral science behind fandom and how that encourages people to enjoy the music and all of that good stuff and do some big things about how this affects the world of politics, business, and brands as well.
Leanne ElliottIt is. It's such, it's such a good show. Of course, you'll hear all the stuff you want to hear about how to grow your business by using behavioural science in your marketing. But there's also just some really interesting episodes that'll be right up your street. Personally, I enjoyed Can Balsamic Vinegar Make Beer Taste Better?
Al ElliottIt can.
Leanne ElliottAnd Are We All Just Status-Seeking Monkeys?
Al ElliottI am. Go and listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottBut come back.
Al ElliottYeah, come back. Definitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this.
Leanne ElliottSo come back. I'll cut that out.
Al ElliottKeep that in.
Leanne ElliottSo my fourth prediction, I think professional development is going to be the kind of the people and culture area of 2023. Um, I think this has been of increasing importance to employees for years, and I think particularly, um, you know, when there wasn't You know, as I said before, during that kind of aftermath of the financial crisis, there wasn't as much mobility in terms of roles. So it came down to professional development being important. I think we're going to see that grow as we kind of move through post-pandemic. I think there's going to be a slight shift. I think there's going to be an increasing focus on professional development and career development routes. But I think there's also going to be a real focus on psychosocial development. And what I'm just—
Al Elliotttell us what psychosocial—
Leanne ElliottI was gonna say, and what I mean by that is— I already know what questions you're gonna ask me. I throw out a term, I know I'm gonna get, get grilled. Um, yes, psychosocial development. Um, so these are things that are— I guess we might have called them more things like soft skills previously, um, or how to just— how to navigate the working environment. How do we communicate? How do we negotiate? How do we build relationships? How do we influence? Um, how do we create work that is meaningful, that has purpose? Do we know what brings purpose and meaning to our people, and how are we connecting that to their professional development? Um, I think there's going to be a lot more, um, I guess I hate to throw around the word, but a bit more strategy around professional development. I think we're going to see clearer routes of development for people. And again, that links back to my first prediction: you need to understand the competencies people need to do that job to be able to develop them effectively, to see that translate into performance. Um, so I think competencies are going to be— competency frameworks are going to be, um, much more talked about in small businesses. I think we're going to see an increase in things like sabbaticals and stretch projects, um, or upskilling opportunities. Um, and equally, I think if we're focusing on, um, professional development, we also need to focus on succession planning, because whether that be an employee moving into another role internally or whether it be them leaving to an external role, it's going to leave a— it's going to leave a hole. And we already know that that fight for talent is going to continue. So, I think succession planning is going to be really important as well. As I mentioned before, you know, those 2, 3 years of COVID really did a number on all of us in terms of our communication skills, our interpersonal skills. And I think that's where we saw kind of the pushback.
Al ElliottMm-hmm.
Leanne ElliottI guess a lot of the pushback of coming back to the office was a lot of people going, oh, I'd rather not. The politics, the office politics and all that bullshit. Nah, thanks. So I think, I think we've all struggled. But again, you know, the people that were joining the workforce during COVID missed out on all that, missed out on all that, that aspect of onboarding, of knowledge sharing, um, of informal mentoring and coaching. So I think, um, yeah, that, that's my, my prediction is that professional development is going to be a big thing and it's going to be a really strategic thing in 2023.
Al ElliottNow what's interesting is that a lot of these things you're saying almost feel like Smaller businesses are borrowing ideas from larger, more established businesses. We talked a few episodes ago about Project Aristotle from Google. It used to be that you'd go, oh, they're a big business, so they do all this stuff, and we're a small business, therefore we go and do all this stuff. But a couple advantages of looking at the larger companies for ideas is exactly what Leanne said. There is a bit more strategy around it, a bit more tactics around it, but also you've got the flexibility. of being a small business and you've got 20, 30, 40 employees, you can implement something by next week. Whereas IBM, what, with quarter million people working around the country, around, around the world, they're gonna take 6 months, 6 years to implement something. So I think by looking towards the bigger people, looking towards those who are doing it, who are doing it right and may have, they may have a bigger budget than you, but what can you learn from them? Yeah.
Leanne ElliottAbsolutely. And how many examples could you pull from sales marketing, Al, where we, you know, you're borrowing those big, those ideas from bigger organizations, applying them in their organization? There must be hundreds of examples of things in marketing that smaller businesses have leveraged and seen big success from.
Al Elliott100%. 100%. And when you look at someone who's got a bigger budget, they've got more chance to, to, um, they've got more chance to experience, to experiment with something, but also So they've got this corporate ego where they want to talk about all the changes they've made. Great. Let's read those blog posts. Let's read their reports and let's steal relentlessly and shamelessly from them.
Leanne ElliottWhat do you think we do?
Al ElliottSo your number 4.
Leanne ElliottYeah, my prediction. I think professional development. So investing in somebody's professional development, in their personal development, in their whole person development. Um, to aid their, their personal and professional ambitions. Professional development is gonna be huge in 2023.
Al ElliottLove it. Love it. Okay, so number 5, this one's a little bit out there. Um, those who know me personally, um, know that I'm massively into tech, into nerdery, into AI. Um, and also, I don't think anyone has not heard of— I think— I don't think there's anyone who hasn't heard of GPT-3, the AI chat that's just come out.
Leanne ElliottCan we just define AI, please, Al? What?
Al ElliottArtificial intelligence. Sorry. And you're quite right. You're quite right. You're quite right. What I like about AI is that when people say, oh, AI is amazing on, on Twitter because it looks a bit like Al, then I quite like that because I go, oh, yeah. Yeah. That's me. That's me.
Leanne ElliottIt's not though.
Al ElliottNo, it's not. No. Very few people say I'm amazing on Twitter. But the whole point of AI is that this ChatGPT has come out, and it's a bit like the first Tesla that came out that people went, oh my god. Tesla's amazing. Look at what all the things it can do. And now everyone's a bit like, oh yeah, well, you have to queue up to charge your car and all that kind of stuff. But we're in those very, very early stages. Now, what I see is that AI is getting so good these days that they can almost hold a conversation. Now, when I say almost, you can on a surface level hold a conversation with AI. But really, in terms of what I think is always gonna lack is the empathy. But what I can really see something happening is some clever people Training an AI to become a kind of virtual coach. Now, I'm not saying that we pretend that there's someone really there at the other end of the, other end of the line. But imagine that you could have something that a machine that every couple of days could check in with someone and say, hey, how, how was your day, Leanne? And you know you're talking to a machine, but you can just go, yeah, it was alright. Or imagine a vent line. Imagine you, you've got just this AI where It's been trained to listen to people going, I've had a shit day, blah. And they just go, and then Sandra did this, and then Colin said that, and, uh, and then going, oh really, what, how did it make you feel? You know, that kind of stuff. And you can just sort of vent. I mean, when I first started my business, I, I set up an email called angryal@ and then the domain name of my business. So every time I got really annoyed or someone sent me a really shitty email, instead of replying to them, I'd reply to Angry Al. And I just set it It's just to terminate and delete the email. But I felt so much better. There's this old thing that I'm sure it was from the '50s, '60s. I've read somewhere that said, if you're annoyed by someone, write a letter and put it in your drawer and then come back a week later and read it and see if you still want to send it. That same kind of thing. So I can see that AI can do that. I can see also you can start to think, okay, that can do a couple of things. First of all, you can do exactly as AI chatbots do at the moment. This sounds really serious. Would you like me to get a human involved?
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottAnd they go, no, no, I'm all right. Or yes, I would actually. It's that first sort of like point of contact. The second thing, which is gonna link in a bit later on to some of the things I'm gonna talk about, is that what happens if that AI was monitoring your wearable? What happens if your AI was monitoring your work pattern? I mean, is that something which— is that invasive or is that sort of preventative? Is that something where we can program it so that the AI will only Yeah. Contact you if you, you know, if you've worked 4 hours or worked 2 hours longer this week than you did the week before, you know, the AI just going, hey, Al, it sounds like you had a hard week last week. How was it? Was there anything different? Now, of course, there's, there's all kinds of ramifications. I'm not nearly clever enough to think about, um, all the sort of like the confidentiality and all that kind of thing. Someone clever out there, I'm sure, will, will, will create this. But I do think that we can leverage this new technology as an almost sentient being to just really to just to do, to do the job that a quick text message would, would do. Hey, how's your, how's your week been? And I think as long as you don't pretend it's human, I think that could be an interesting application of AI.
Leanne ElliottI think that is really interesting. And when you were talking, then it, I guess it kind of struck me the connection between self-coaching So, you know, we can get, like, the coaching cards that you go through, like, every day where it asks you questions like that and helps you reflect. I can see AI being a really good, good tool to support that process. I'm uncomfortable with AI replacing coaches, but I don't think that's understandable.
Al ElliottJust in case that's what, what, what came across when I was talking, I wasn't in any way suggesting replacing coaches. What I think is just being that first line where a good coach will ask questions and not say anything for the first couple of sessions. And I just think that you can start to get someone comfortable with talking about their week, about their day, which then can escalate to a human because I don't think AI is ever going to replace or should ever replace a coach.
Leanne ElliottYeah. And I think it, like you say, it's that helping people reflect and build up that reflective practice. I think AI could be a really useful tool. And one thing you were saying as well about your angry emails, I used to do similar things. Um, if I'd had a bad day, just write it down. Um, and I can't remember the study and I can't remember who it was, um, but there is neuroscience behind this. And there's been a study done that basically writing down feelings helps us process those and distance us in terms of their impact is no longer as great. Um, so yeah, in terms of our brains like us to go through that venting process as well.
Al ElliottI love it. Okay, well, prediction number 5 then, and to summarize, is that Al thinks there'll be some AI coaches as the frontline of defence for people at some point in 2023.
Leanne ElliottSo my next prediction, which I think feeds quite nicely off of what you just said, I think in 2023, we're gonna see a huge coaching boom. I think, you know how you used to, like, used to see, like, lots of, like, sitcoms and films that would joke about everybody has a therapist. More in the US, I think. Not to say that you need the therapists in the US, I'm just saying you've got, you know, much more evolved in terms of, I'm getting myself in a hole here. Anyway, coaching boom 2023.
Al ElliottLeanne looks forward to your letters.
Leanne ElliottI look forward to your complaints. Yeah, I think, I think as we've said, you know, 2022 has been a year on top of another year on top of another year. I think leaders are gonna need support with these, the continuing challenges and the changing expectations of employees. I think they're going to need support to be more effective as leaders in a world that is dominated by hybrid and remote working. And I also think there's going to be a real need for leaders to invest more in their own wellbeing in terms of, I think burnout is going to be a big risk in 2023. And I think everyone is, everyone's going to have a coach, but more than that, I think everyone's going to have more than one coach. I can see leaders having a coach for their business, a coach for their leadership, make them more effective, and also a cathartic coach like you were saying there, you know, that ability to vent or just explore your— how you're feeling about things, how you're responding to things. Um, so yeah, I think that's going to be a really big trend in 2023, and I think more so we're going to see coaching start to trickle down into manager level. So not just reserved for those kind of executive leaders or senior managers. I think we're going to see, um, that middle management level, um, either requesting access to coaching, um, or for those progressive employees— employee employers, um, making sure that, that their managers have accessing to access to coaching. I made a mess of that.
Al ElliottNo, I think you made perfect sense.
Leanne ElliottI think you got, you got my point though, right?
Al ElliottYeah. And I think that so from From a people point of view, what I like about this is that we are pro— we're making coaching less elitist and more, and more accessible to everyone, really. Because, and also a bit more like, you know, like you said there about the therapist. I think the reason why Americans say they've got, and I'm not picking on you Americans, I'm just saying in the sitcoms and that kind of thing, they say, oh, my therapist says this. And I think you guys have been saying it for years and years and years. Whereas over here, if you had a therapist or the equivalent, you'd probably You wouldn't mention it to anyone in Britain. You wouldn't, wouldn't say it just publicly. So I think there's also taking that stigma away from what coaching is. And the— and coaching isn't to help you, to help you become better or overcome a particular hurdle, or because you're lacking, you need a coach. I think it's more that every, you know, everyone needs a coach. And your coach could just be Deirdre in accounting who, who kind of like, who you chat to from time to time on your break.
Leanne ElliottYeah.
Al ElliottIt could be your leader, like, like Leanne talked about, about John a few, a few episodes back. It could be an internal coach. And I think that there's gonna be some interesting developments because there's clearly not enough coaches out there to satisfy this demand if this does, this prediction does come off. So then again, maybe back to al'saicoachingservice.com. We don't know. But there's, it's gonna be an interesting time because I think you're right. The, The benefit of a coach is incredible. And Leanne broke those down into 3, into performance, cathartic, and—
Leanne ElliottLike, business leadership, cathartic.
Al ElliottRight. And I think the cathartic coach is just someone who's trained really to listen and to be really good at that, whereas your leadership coach could be someone of us who has slightly different skills. Leanne and I, we used to be in the Samaritans in, in the UK where we first met, actually. And that was essentially cathartic Yeah. And one massive difference between— I think a lot of people think the coaches go, they think of coach for an NBA basketball star or, you know, the England coach or whatever. Coaching isn't necessarily that. There's performance coaching, but there's also just someone who's gonna sit there, listen, and then just ask questions. Do you know how, how bad— Stefan said this a few episodes ago. Everyone thinks they're a good listener and they're above average, but obviously they can't be because they're above not listening. average. And in fact, think about the last time you said something seriously to someone else at work and they, and were they sitting there listening to you thinking about how, what they were gonna say next? Or were they sitting there listening and then went, well, how did that make you feel? And this isn't this, you know, this isn't stupid. This is just by someone saying that makes you really reflect on what's happened to you.
Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.
Al ElliottAnd even if it's just had a rubbish day, It can make things so much better. And I think writing down is— I love that exact, that example of writing things down.
Leanne ElliottYeah. So I think even having a coach to just help you navigate those, those feelings, those thoughts. And, you know, you do, you do the work when you have a coach. A good coach will just sit there and ask you the right question. They won't offer anything more than that. You do the work. And I think that's why it's so empowering to go through a really positive coaching experience because you realize that I've got this. They didn't actually come up with any solutions, any coping strategies, any— I came up with all that. And I think that's what's really empowering about coaching.
Al ElliottOh, 100%. And I think one of the best things you can do is, is, is if you are a good listener, and I'm sorry, but statistically, if you're listening, you're probably not. You need to learn how to listen. Oh, by the way, if you wanna re— if you're in the UK and wanna learn how to listen, go and volunteer for Samaritans because, oh my God, that training is absolutely Absolutely incredible. But what's so interesting is when you are good at listening is people say, thank you, you've helped me so much. And you think back, and if you were to record that back, you realize you said virtually nothing at all. I think that is really, really powerful. Now, we're not just saying this because we do coaching, although it would be great business-wise for us if this prediction did come true and people wanted more coaches, because obviously you can go to Oblong HQ and you can buy your coaching. Sorry. I'm the commercial side of it. I have to say that. But that was really interesting. So to summarize—
Leanne ElliottIn all seriousness, though, if you are considering a coach, we do actually also offer 15-minute free consultations because coaching is also about finding the right coach. It's like finding the right therapist.
Al ElliottThat's true.
Leanne ElliottAbout finding the right coach. So in all seriousness, if it is something you're interested in, we do offer that, that 15 minutes for free. So get in touch.
Al ElliottDefinitely. Just go to our website and you go forward slash books, woblonghq.com/books. You can book your time there, and you will talk to probably Leanne because she's just amazing in the expert role.
Leanne ElliottWell, it depends what you want coaching on and what kind of approach you need.
Al ElliottOkay. So we've now done 5 of our predictions.
Leanne Elliott6.
Al ElliottWe've done 6. I'm sorry. We've done 6. I've been writing this down like a tally chart, trying to keep on top of it. I obviously didn't do very well. So we have another 6 coming up in part 2, plus a couple of potentially a couple of bonus ones.
Leanne ElliottOoh.
Al ElliottI'm a marketer. I've always gotta add bonuses. You know, I can't just give you what you asked for. Um, and they're totally free, but—
Leanne ElliottAnd you get a prediction and you get a prediction.
Al ElliottAnd wait, there's more.
Leanne ElliottDid you buy one? You get one free.
Al ElliottOh God, that's a reference for UK, for people in the UK 15 years ago. Um, so, uh, we're coming back with part 2 on this next week. Uh, make sure if you're not subscribed, What's wrong with you? What happened? Who hurt you? Press that subscribe button. Ow. Was that a bit harsh?
Leanne ElliottYou're the reason we get these reviews.
Al ElliottWhat reviews? Oh, yeah. We did get one review. It was a, it was a 2-star review or something.
Leanne ElliottYeah. At least leave a comment if you're gonna leave a twofer. Yeah.
Al ElliottJust not cool. If that was you, then email us at angryal@onbloghq.com.
Leanne ElliottIt's cathartic. It will help. Get it out. Get it out. Just not on our reviews. Email us.
Al ElliottPrivately, not publicly. We have had quite a few 5-star reviews. So thank you to those people who left those. If you've not yet left a review, God, it would really, really help us. It would genuinely help us. We're a brand new podcast. We're only about episode 14, 15. Leaving a review or even just a rating, like, that's where you just leave your stars, and a review would be a fantastic You could do it. Right, we'll see you next week, I think, for part 2 of our predictions for 2023 in people and culture.
Leanne ElliottHappy New Year!
Al ElliottHappy New Year! Have a great one. Speeches are—